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In ahoy writes:
On 23 Jul 2005 07:06:52 GMT, (Lauri Tarkkonen) wrote: In Larry writes: "Robert or Karen Swarts" wrote in : Anyone care to discuss the relative reliability of autopilots(electric/electronic) vs wind vanes for sail boats? Are wind vanes still widely used? BS Lionheart, an Amel 41' ketch, is steered with a B&G Network Pilot electro- hydraulic autopilot directly on the steering post under the aft cabin bed. Its hydraulic cylinder is attached to the rudder post bellcrank with a small ball joint, a miniature trailer hitch ball. Even if the entire steering cable system fails (it looks like a heavy outboard flexible system with dual enclosed flexcables), we can still steer the boat from the helm or from the remote control box, providing there is DC power to run it. DC power is two banks of L-16H 6V monsters. Power R' Us. The only problem we've had with it is the chinzy way B&G attaches the linear feedback sensor to the hydraulic cylinder, which comes loose eventually and must be retightened and calibrated if you're not careful. They buy this sensor from another manufacturer and don't seem to know how to attach it to their cylinder, reliably. As to operation, I have no trouble sleeping right on top of the running hydraulic pump system, which only runs when the cylinder needs moving. You can't hear it out of the aft cabin in the rest of the boat. From the center cockpit, it's as if a ghost were at the helm...(c; There are 3 modes....computer/chart plotter...or...its own compass sensor...or...B&G Network Wind instrument on top of the mainmast, which steers it on the wind like an extraordinary windvane would. All this is selected from the Pilot's panel display, same size as the other B&G Network sailing instruments in the helm's panel. It accepts NMEA0183 data very well from our computer under The Cap'n nav software, either the RAymarine RL70CRC radar/chart plotter, or the old Garmin 185 GPS/Chartplotter/Sonar or from the Yeoman paper chart plotter's waypoints under our chart table cover. As with any autopilot, when the going gets rough, it's as useless as any of them when it gets lost.....and you're left to steer by hand lock to lock trying against hell to hold her on a course....with the wind sensor spinning around crazy, the compass sensor being churned by being thrown about and all the rudder in the world unable to steer the damned boat.... You cave the best argument for the windvane. The autopilots how expensive one you ever buy, is for the fair weather. When the going gets rough, the windvane will carry you trhough. - Lauri Tarkkonen I was looking at the Monitor windvane at a dock but I couldn't see the whole thing. Does it have pully's to an inboard quadrant? Or does it just move the little paddle aft of the rudder? Thanks and keep up the good work. Monitor is a servo-pendulum type (like Windpilot, Aries and some others) windvane. The working principle is as follows: The wind tilts the vane on one side or the other when the boat is not it the right direction of the wind, the movement of the vane is only twisting the "padle" in the water and when it is tvisted the boats movement throught the water will push it to one side or anothe depending on the direction of the tilt of the wane. The padle pulls the rope that pulls the tiller (or if you have a steering wheel the rope is on a drum on the wheel and it rotates) and it is then turning the boats rudder. So the steerin is not done by the padle, it is only controlling the rudder. Next time yuo are out boatin, take a padle or an oar and pull it through the water with the side forward. It will go straight with very little movement, if you twist it a bit you will find a very strong force pulling it to the side. Imagine this fors applied to the rudder of the boat. Notice that the power needed to twist the oar or paddle is very minimal. But the power created by the paddle/oar is quite a big. - Lauri Tarkkonen |
I have an old Swan 38 and just returned from a yearlong cruise from
the Northwest to Mexico, and returned home via Hawaii. When outfitting for the trip cost was very much a concern and we decided to put a Monitor wind vane on as our only autopilot. To have something for motoring I bought the cheapest Simrad tiller pilot that Pyacht.com had. I mounted it between the led counter weight on the Monitor and the aft rail. There was a lot of concern from other boaters before we left that the old IOR racer would not handle well with the narrow stern in following seas. After a year of living with it I am positive that any one who questions the effectiveness of a well installed and maintained windvane has never used one. The beauty of it was that the harder the wind blew, the better it worked. We never had any real bad weather. The worst seas were about 15-20 feet in 30kt off cape Mendocino, and it handled them better then we could hand steering. When traversing from the Big Island of Hawaii to Maui we saw 40kt and, as long as he sails were balanced, the windvane worked great. The tiller pilot worked well when motoring. In very light wind with a good swell we would also use the tiller pilot when sailing. The power use was minimal and never noticeably increased our need to charge. When rounding the Pacific high the winds and seas became very light. But the monitor with the vane worked well down wind with 7kts apparent and 4kt boat speed. We even flew an asymmetrical for close to 48 hours straight. The down side was that the Monitor was slow to react to change of course with either the vane or the tiller pilot. So when entering a harbor or when going up the Columbia to Portland, we would hand steer. On other boats I have piloted with hydraulic pilots we would use them closer in then the wind vane. The only other big drawback which you don't hear much about it the potential damage they can do to an inflatable dingy. In Mexico they were sometimes referred to as dingy slicers. We found that having a longer painter solved the potential hazard. The only people I saw having problems with them were boats that also had large hydraulic autopilots. It seemed that since they had a good fall back, they never went through the learning process to figure out how to make the windvanes work. It took me a whole day. The process was like learning to trim a new type of sail. If I were limited to sailing on the Columbia or in Puget sound, I would be happy with a wheel pilot. But for any distance, the Monitor was a great choice. John SV Pangea |
I want to thank all of you who responded. Despite the minor flame between
Lauri and Brian, I found the replies most interesting and informative. They seem to show a clear preference for autopilots for short term, fair weather applications and sail changes, and the wind vane for serious blue water sailing. Bob Swarts "Robert or Karen Swarts" wrote in message ... Anyone care to discuss the relative reliability of autopilots(electric/electronic) vs wind vanes for sail boats? Are wind vanes still widely used? BS |
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