What are your thoughts on the airhead toilet "www.airheadtoilet.com"
for a cruising boat.
I'm refitting my 37 footer and looking at the diferent optiond for
marine heads, although the price of these units is steep my question
is if they really work or are they worth the price tag ?

rob

Helbergon wrote:

What are your thoughts on the airhead toilet "www.airheadtoilet.com"
for a cruising boat.
I'm refitting my 37 footer and looking at the diferent optiond for
marine heads, although the price of these units is steep my question
is if they really work or are they worth the price tag ?

Why store waste aboard if you don't have to? Composters and systems like
the Air Head (which isn't really a composter, but a dessicator) may be a
good alternative to holding tank on a "no discharge" inland lake, but in
coastal waters where the discharge of treated waste is legal, it makes
more sense IMO to install a Type I MSD (i.e. Lectra/San) for about the
same price and the same, or even lower, power requirements...’cuz the
fans and heaters in composters/dessicators must run continuously to
maintain an aerobic--and therefore odor-free--condition and evaporate
the liquids in solid waste...whereas a treatment device only needs power
for a couple of minutes after each flush.

Liquids (urine) are the major issue in these systems. .They cannot
legally be drained overboard inside 3 miles, so they must be held aboard
in something—in the jugs provided with the Airhead, which must be
carried ashore and dumped, same as a portapotty…or in a holding
tank...and if you have to have a holding tank to store the
liquids--which, btw, present just as much of an odor control problem as
fecal matter--what's the point of having a system that separates urine
from solid matter? Especially when you consider that solids don't take
up that much room in a holding tank. A gallon of urine every 30 hours =
5.6 gallons of urine a week. Doesn't sound like much because it's
undiluted by flush water...but the odor-causing properties in it are
also undiluted.

And there's something else to consider: temperature. Because a certain
level of bacterial activity is necessary for these systems to at all,
and because bacterial activity starts to get VERY sluggish below 60
degrees F and goes completely dormant at 40, they don't work very well
when the temperature is below 50 F. Since the Airhead doesn't actually
compost, but only removes all the moisture from solid waste, this may or
may not be an issue for winter liveaboards in cold climate zones, but it
definitely is for true composters unless the unit is heated continuously.

And, there is the matter of power...the system can't work without any,
so it must run 24/7/365--whether you're aboard or not...and power can be
hard to come by if you keep your boat on a mooring, or on any boat that
isn’t connected to shore power.

So if someone who owns a houseboat (those floating mobile homes on barge
hulls that litter the inland lakes and rivers) were to ask me if I
thought a composter or the Airhead is a good idea, I'd say it's
definitely an option worth considering...but on a sailboat in coastal
waters—especially where the discharge of treated waste is legal—I think
a Type MSD makes a LOT more sense.


--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1

Peggie Hall wrote:
Helbergon wrote:

What are your thoughts on the airhead toilet "www.airheadtoilet.com"
for a cruising boat.
I'm refitting my 37 footer and looking at the diferent optiond for
marine heads, although the price of these units is steep my question
is if they really work or are they worth the price tag ?


Why store waste aboard if you don't have to? Composters and systems like
the Air Head (which isn't really a composter, but a dessicator) may be a
good alternative to holding tank on a "no discharge" inland lake, but in
coastal waters where the discharge of treated waste is legal, it makes
more sense IMO to install a Type I MSD (i.e. Lectra/San) for about the
same price and the same, or even lower, power requirements...’cuz the
fans and heaters in composters/dessicators must run continuously to
maintain an aerobic--and therefore odor-free--condition and evaporate
the liquids in solid waste...whereas a treatment device only needs power
for a couple of minutes after each flush.

Liquids (urine) are the major issue in these systems. .They cannot
legally be drained overboard inside 3 miles, so they must be held aboard
in something—in the jugs provided with the Airhead, which must be
carried ashore and dumped, same as a portapotty…or in a holding
tank...and if you have to have a holding tank to store the
liquids--which, btw, present just as much of an odor control problem as
fecal matter--what's the point of having a system that separates urine
from solid matter? Especially when you consider that solids don't take
up that much room in a holding tank. A gallon of urine every 30 hours =
5.6 gallons of urine a week. Doesn't sound like much because it's
undiluted by flush water...but the odor-causing properties in it are
also undiluted.

And there's something else to consider: temperature. Because a certain
level of bacterial activity is necessary for these systems to at all,
and because bacterial activity starts to get VERY sluggish below 60
degrees F and goes completely dormant at 40, they don't work very well
when the temperature is below 50 F. Since the Airhead doesn't actually
compost, but only removes all the moisture from solid waste, this may or
may not be an issue for winter liveaboards in cold climate zones, but it
definitely is for true composters unless the unit is heated continuously.

And, there is the matter of power...the system can't work without any,
so it must run 24/7/365--whether you're aboard or not...and power can be
hard to come by if you keep your boat on a mooring, or on any boat that
isn’t connected to shore power.

So if someone who owns a houseboat (those floating mobile homes on barge
hulls that litter the inland lakes and rivers) were to ask me if I
thought a composter or the Airhead is a good idea, I'd say it's
definitely an option worth considering...but on a sailboat in coastal
waters—especially where the discharge of treated waste is legal—I think
a Type MSD makes a LOT more sense.



Peggie, how do you rate dosing a regular holding tank with bleach as
a treatment prior to dumping? Do you have a recipie?

Terry K

Terry Spragg wrote:
Peggie, how do you rate dosing a regular holding tank with bleach as a
treatment prior to dumping?

Worthless. IN fact, worse than worthless, 'cuz bleach is highly
corrosive and damaging to hoses.

Do you have a recipie?

Nope. There is nothing that can be added to a tank that can make it
legal to dump the tank inside the "3 mile limit"...only the discharge
from a Type I or II MSD that has been tested and certified by the CG
that the discharge meets all the provisions of federal law for Type I
and II MSDs can legally go overboard (except in "no discharge" waters).
And the discharge from a CG certified device must go directly
overboard...it cannot go into a tank first. 'Cuz even if it's been
treated, once it does go into a tank, the waste is no longer considered
"treated" waste...for two reasons:

1. If even ONE li'l old bacterium survives treatment, it can quickly
multiply into zillions--way more than the legal count for treated
waste...and there's no way to test the discharge.

2. The discharge from Type I or II device must be macerated (liquified)
to a much higher level than it can be by just passing through a
discharge macerator.

Nor can an individual owner cobble up his own legal treatment
device...'cuz only the discharge from CG certified devices can legally
go overboard, and the CG won't certify "one offs"...only devices in
prototype that then must be mfr'd exactly as certified.

So sorry, Terry, but there are only two ways to empty a tank legally:
pump it out, or go out to sea at least 3 miles from the nearest point on
the whole US coastline to dump it. There is no "recipe" for anything you
can put in the tank to "treat" the waste.


--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1

On Wed, 13 Jul 2005 02:48:53 GMT, Peggie Hall wrote:

Terry Spragg wrote:
Peggie, how do you rate dosing a regular holding tank with bleach as a
treatment prior to dumping?

Worthless. IN fact, worse than worthless, 'cuz bleach is highly
corrosive and damaging to hoses.

Do you have a recipie?

Nope. There is nothing that can be added to a tank that can make it
legal to dump the tank inside the "3 mile limit"...only the discharge
from a Type I or II MSD that has been tested and certified by the CG
that the discharge meets all the provisions of federal law for Type I
and II MSDs can legally go overboard (except in "no discharge" waters).
And the discharge from a CG certified device must go directly
overboard...it cannot go into a tank first. 'Cuz even if it's been
treated, once it does go into a tank, the waste is no longer considered
"treated" waste...for two reasons:

1. If even ONE li'l old bacterium survives treatment, it can quickly
multiply into zillions--way more than the legal count for treated
waste...and there's no way to test the discharge.

2. The discharge from Type I or II device must be macerated (liquified)
to a much higher level than it can be by just passing through a
discharge macerator.

Nor can an individual owner cobble up his own legal treatment
device...'cuz only the discharge from CG certified devices can legally
go overboard, and the CG won't certify "one offs"...only devices in
prototype that then must be mfr'd exactly as certified.

Not to mention getting caught with a setup to discharge a holding tank overboard
(i.e. not having the Y-valve padlocked in the correct position) inside the
3-mile limit can expose you to thousands of dollars in fines. Not worth the
risk in my opinion.

JJ

So sorry, Terry, but there are only two ways to empty a tank legally:
pump it out, or go out to sea at least 3 miles from the nearest point on
the whole US coastline to dump it. There is no "recipe" for anything you
can put in the tank to "treat" the waste.

James Johnson
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