MMC wrote:
I agree with advocates of the bowline for the following reasons: 1) it will
not come untied until you want it to,

Actually, the bowline is not perfect in this regard, especially if not
well finished. I have heard of it coming free when used on jib sheets.

I must confess, though, that I use them on my jib sheets because the
stuns'l tackbends would get too bulky on the clew.

2) when you want it to- you can untie it, and 3)

true

it devalues the breaking strain of the line less than other
knots. In this I mean that if a line is put under heavy strain, it will
break at the knot before it reaches it's stated breaking point because of
the bends required to form the knot will break first.

Nope - this is a myth. Its not bad, but it isn't dramatically better
than many other knots. And it can have a serious problem if used when
a anchor bend should be used.

I'm a firm believer that a boater only needs 3 knots; bowline, clove hitch,
and square; along with a good idea of when to use each and the ability to do
so quickly.

The bowline is clearly a superior knot for many applications.
However, the square knot and clove hitch I only use rarely and their
holding power is so marginal I'd hesitate to teach them to a novice.
Why not use teach useful knots, like a stuns'l tackbend (buntline
hitch) or a tautline hitch or a sheetbend or a figure eight? These
knots are used every day. Can you rig up a sailboat without knowing a
stopper knots?

Although I'm a big fan of the buntline, I don't use it on the sheets
because the line is so big that two of them would make the clew too bulky.

Someone claimed that they were hard to remove, though I've never had
this problem, and I used them thousands of times. Admittedly, they
are snug, so they're not the best in a "quick change" situation.


Rich Hampel wrote:
Definitely a Buntline .... unlike a bowline it wont shake loose. If
tied properly it will be small/compact and will be much smaller than a
bowline. Yes yu will have to probably cut it off to remove it; buy a
few feet of extra line.
In that same vein, the best is to eyhe-splice the line directly to the
clew or alternatively use a single length and use a
'stangler/constrictor' hitch or a simple clove hitch in the middle.


In article , Marc
wrote:


A Buntline Hitch http://www.dirauxwest.org/knots/buntline.htm

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:36:43 -0700, "Gordon"
wrote:


What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be
something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the hole"
knot.
Thanks
Gordon

I've seen in come free, but only in light air with a very short end.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
MMC wrote:
I agree with advocates of the bowline for the following reasons: 1) it
will not come untied until you want it to,

Actually, the bowline is not perfect in this regard, especially if not
well finished. I have heard of it coming free when used on jib sheets.

I must confess, though, that I use them on my jib sheets because the
stuns'l tackbends would get too bulky on the clew.

2) when you want it to- you can untie it, and 3)

true

it devalues the breaking strain of the line less than other knots. In
this I mean that if a line is put under heavy strain, it will break at
the knot before it reaches it's stated breaking point because of the
bends required to form the knot will break first.

Nope - this is a myth. Its not bad, but it isn't dramatically better than
many other knots. And it can have a serious problem if used when a anchor
bend should be used.

I'm a firm believer that a boater only needs 3 knots; bowline, clove
hitch, and square; along with a good idea of when to use each and the
ability to do so quickly.

The bowline is clearly a superior knot for many applications. However, the
square knot and clove hitch I only use rarely and their holding power is
so marginal I'd hesitate to teach them to a novice. Why not use teach
useful knots, like a stuns'l tackbend (buntline hitch) or a tautline hitch
or a sheetbend or a figure eight? These knots are used every day. Can
you rig up a sailboat without knowing a stopper knots?

In article ,
Rich Hampel wrote:

alternatively use a single length and use a 'stangler/constrictor'
hitch or a simple clove hitch in the middle.

I've used one or other of these for years, primarily because there's
less mass when flogging and less chance of catching on something.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Sheetbend is notorious for capsizing unless you double wrap it.
Better to use a Zeppelin bend.

Went through 2nd Class at NSDS in '82 on my way to Indian Head. After that
worked off of a buttload of mine sweepers, the USNS Apache, the Hunley, the
Butte, the Saipan, the booster recovery ship "Independence", and a whole lot
of time on rubber ducks and workboats. After I got out I worked for Seaward
for a while and may have scrubbed your bottom if you were based in Little
Creek!
"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:00:32 GMT, "MMC" said:

MMC (Navy coxswain, Navy and commercial diver, sailor, and all around
nosey
*******)

Hey, MMC, what kind of a Navy boat were you diving from? I spent my hitch
on
an ASR--the kind of diving that took the long course for helium divers at
NSDS, rather than the short one for air divers.

Use a " Studding Sail Tack Bend" easy and won't jam.

Bill
"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
ink.net...
Gordon wrote:
What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be
something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the
hole"
knot.


I don't know the name of the knot, but I got it from Cruising World
article a long time ago and it is simple.

You need one piece of line for both sheets. If a single sheet is say 35
ft, you need a 70 ft piece of line for example.

Find the midpoint and double the line, then measure back about 18" and
seize together with some mason's twine forming a loop.

You need a piece of 3/4" line about 24" long which you feed thru the loop
on the sheet you just created, then double it back on itself and seize the
ends together with more mason's twine.

Feed the sheet loop thru the cringle, then feed the end of the seized 3/4"
line thru the loop.

Pull the loop taut and you are good to go.

SFWIW, I used the above for many years, making up a separate set of sheets
for each sail. It was just simpler that way.

HTH

Lew

I'd put two half hitches on that list, right behind the bowline

"MMC" wrote in message
m...
I agree with advocates of the bowline for the following reasons: 1) it
will
not come untied until you want it to, 2) when you want it to- you can
untie
it, and 3) it devalues the breaking strain of the line less than other
knots. In this I mean that if a line is put under heavy strain, it will
break at the knot before it reaches it's stated breaking point because of
the bends required to form the knot will break first.
I'm a firm believer that a boater only needs 3 knots; bowline, clove
hitch,
and square; along with a good idea of when to use each and the ability to
do
so quickly.
MMC (Navy coxswain, Navy and commercial diver, sailor, and all around
nosey
*******)

"Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:36:43 -0700, "Gordon" wrote:

What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be
something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the
hole"
knot.

Are you really having trouble making a bowline? Sure, you can use other
knots to tie sheets to the jib. But they're going to be just as "pesky"
and if you're a sailor, you should know how to make a bowline quickly
anyway.

Steve

Two half hitches is an almost useless knot. There are variants that
are vastly superior, but two half hitches by itself is about as useful
as a granny.

Garland Gray II wrote:
I'd put two half hitches on that list, right behind the bowline

"MMC" wrote in message
m...

I agree with advocates of the bowline for the following reasons: 1) it

will

not come untied until you want it to, 2) when you want it to- you can

untie

it, and 3) it devalues the breaking strain of the line less than other
knots. In this I mean that if a line is put under heavy strain, it will
break at the knot before it reaches it's stated breaking point because of
the bends required to form the knot will break first.
I'm a firm believer that a boater only needs 3 knots; bowline, clove

hitch,

and square; along with a good idea of when to use each and the ability to

do

so quickly.
MMC (Navy coxswain, Navy and commercial diver, sailor, and all around

nosey

*******)

"Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message
. ..

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:36:43 -0700, "Gordon" wrote:


What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be
something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the

hole"

knot.

Are you really having trouble making a bowline? Sure, you can use other
knots to tie sheets to the jib. But they're going to be just as "pesky"
and if you're a sailor, you should know how to make a bowline quickly
anyway.

Steve

You are welcome to your opinion, but I think that is a rediculous statement.
A granny knot is clearly a knot done in error, but two half hitches can be a
very handy knot if a line needs to be tied or released while under a load.
I usually tie the half hitches after two or three turns around the piling.

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Two half hitches is an almost useless knot. There are variants that
are vastly superior, but two half hitches by itself is about as useful
as a granny.

Garland Gray II wrote:
I'd put two half hitches on that list, right behind the bowline

"MMC" wrote in message
m...

I agree with advocates of the bowline for the following reasons: 1) it

will

not come untied until you want it to, 2) when you want it to- you can

untie

it, and 3) it devalues the breaking strain of the line less than other
knots. In this I mean that if a line is put under heavy strain, it will
break at the knot before it reaches it's stated breaking point because
of
the bends required to form the knot will break first.
I'm a firm believer that a boater only needs 3 knots; bowline, clove

hitch,

and square; along with a good idea of when to use each and the ability
to

do

so quickly.
MMC (Navy coxswain, Navy and commercial diver, sailor, and all around

nosey

*******)

"Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message
. ..

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:36:43 -0700, "Gordon"
wrote:


What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be
something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the

hole"

knot.

Are you really having trouble making a bowline? Sure, you can use
other
knots to tie sheets to the jib. But they're going to be just as
"pesky"
and if you're a sailor, you should know how to make a bowline quickly
anyway.

Steve