I agree with advocates of the bowline for the following reasons: 1) it will
not come untied until you want it to, 2) when you want it to- you can untie
it, and 3) it devalues the breaking strain of the line less than other
knots. In this I mean that if a line is put under heavy strain, it will
break at the knot before it reaches it's stated breaking point because of
the bends required to form the knot will break first.
I'm a firm believer that a boater only needs 3 knots; bowline, clove hitch,
and square; along with a good idea of when to use each and the ability to do
so quickly.
MMC (Navy coxswain, Navy and commercial diver, sailor, and all around nosey
*******)

"Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:36:43 -0700, "Gordon" wrote:

What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be
something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the hole"
knot.

Are you really having trouble making a bowline? Sure, you can use other
knots to tie sheets to the jib. But they're going to be just as "pesky"
and if you're a sailor, you should know how to make a bowline quickly
anyway.

Steve

MMC wrote:
I agree with advocates of the bowline for the following reasons: 1) it will
not come untied until you want it to,

Actually, the bowline is not perfect in this regard, especially if not
well finished. I have heard of it coming free when used on jib sheets.

I must confess, though, that I use them on my jib sheets because the
stuns'l tackbends would get too bulky on the clew.

2) when you want it to- you can untie it, and 3)

true

it devalues the breaking strain of the line less than other
knots. In this I mean that if a line is put under heavy strain, it will
break at the knot before it reaches it's stated breaking point because of
the bends required to form the knot will break first.

Nope - this is a myth. Its not bad, but it isn't dramatically better
than many other knots. And it can have a serious problem if used when
a anchor bend should be used.

I'm a firm believer that a boater only needs 3 knots; bowline, clove hitch,
and square; along with a good idea of when to use each and the ability to do
so quickly.

The bowline is clearly a superior knot for many applications.
However, the square knot and clove hitch I only use rarely and their
holding power is so marginal I'd hesitate to teach them to a novice.
Why not use teach useful knots, like a stuns'l tackbend (buntline
hitch) or a tautline hitch or a sheetbend or a figure eight? These
knots are used every day. Can you rig up a sailboat without knowing a
stopper knots?

I've seen in come free, but only in light air with a very short end.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
MMC wrote:
I agree with advocates of the bowline for the following reasons: 1) it
will not come untied until you want it to,

Actually, the bowline is not perfect in this regard, especially if not
well finished. I have heard of it coming free when used on jib sheets.

I must confess, though, that I use them on my jib sheets because the
stuns'l tackbends would get too bulky on the clew.

2) when you want it to- you can untie it, and 3)

true

it devalues the breaking strain of the line less than other knots. In
this I mean that if a line is put under heavy strain, it will break at
the knot before it reaches it's stated breaking point because of the
bends required to form the knot will break first.

Nope - this is a myth. Its not bad, but it isn't dramatically better than
many other knots. And it can have a serious problem if used when a anchor
bend should be used.

I'm a firm believer that a boater only needs 3 knots; bowline, clove
hitch, and square; along with a good idea of when to use each and the
ability to do so quickly.

The bowline is clearly a superior knot for many applications. However, the
square knot and clove hitch I only use rarely and their holding power is
so marginal I'd hesitate to teach them to a novice. Why not use teach
useful knots, like a stuns'l tackbend (buntline hitch) or a tautline hitch
or a sheetbend or a figure eight? These knots are used every day. Can
you rig up a sailboat without knowing a stopper knots?

Sheetbend is notorious for capsizing unless you double wrap it.
Better to use a Zeppelin bend.

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 14:55:13 GMT, Rich Hampel
wrote:

Sheetbend is notorious for capsizing unless you double wrap it.
Better to use a Zeppelin bend.

One of my favourite knots. I use it to tie leather thongs for
medallions and whatnot. Has never failed in the corrosive conditions
of my neck.

R.

I'd put two half hitches on that list, right behind the bowline

"MMC" wrote in message
m...
I agree with advocates of the bowline for the following reasons: 1) it
will
not come untied until you want it to, 2) when you want it to- you can
untie
it, and 3) it devalues the breaking strain of the line less than other
knots. In this I mean that if a line is put under heavy strain, it will
break at the knot before it reaches it's stated breaking point because of
the bends required to form the knot will break first.
I'm a firm believer that a boater only needs 3 knots; bowline, clove
hitch,
and square; along with a good idea of when to use each and the ability to
do
so quickly.
MMC (Navy coxswain, Navy and commercial diver, sailor, and all around
nosey
*******)

"Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:36:43 -0700, "Gordon" wrote:

What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be
something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the
hole"
knot.

Are you really having trouble making a bowline? Sure, you can use other
knots to tie sheets to the jib. But they're going to be just as "pesky"
and if you're a sailor, you should know how to make a bowline quickly
anyway.

Steve

Two half hitches is an almost useless knot. There are variants that
are vastly superior, but two half hitches by itself is about as useful
as a granny.

Garland Gray II wrote:
I'd put two half hitches on that list, right behind the bowline

"MMC" wrote in message
m...

I agree with advocates of the bowline for the following reasons: 1) it

will

not come untied until you want it to, 2) when you want it to- you can

untie

it, and 3) it devalues the breaking strain of the line less than other
knots. In this I mean that if a line is put under heavy strain, it will
break at the knot before it reaches it's stated breaking point because of
the bends required to form the knot will break first.
I'm a firm believer that a boater only needs 3 knots; bowline, clove

hitch,

and square; along with a good idea of when to use each and the ability to

do

so quickly.
MMC (Navy coxswain, Navy and commercial diver, sailor, and all around

nosey

*******)

"Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message
. ..

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:36:43 -0700, "Gordon" wrote:


What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be
something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the

hole"

knot.

Are you really having trouble making a bowline? Sure, you can use other
knots to tie sheets to the jib. But they're going to be just as "pesky"
and if you're a sailor, you should know how to make a bowline quickly
anyway.

Steve

You are welcome to your opinion, but I think that is a rediculous statement.
A granny knot is clearly a knot done in error, but two half hitches can be a
very handy knot if a line needs to be tied or released while under a load.
I usually tie the half hitches after two or three turns around the piling.

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Two half hitches is an almost useless knot. There are variants that
are vastly superior, but two half hitches by itself is about as useful
as a granny.

Garland Gray II wrote:
I'd put two half hitches on that list, right behind the bowline

"MMC" wrote in message
m...

I agree with advocates of the bowline for the following reasons: 1) it

will

not come untied until you want it to, 2) when you want it to- you can

untie

it, and 3) it devalues the breaking strain of the line less than other
knots. In this I mean that if a line is put under heavy strain, it will
break at the knot before it reaches it's stated breaking point because
of
the bends required to form the knot will break first.
I'm a firm believer that a boater only needs 3 knots; bowline, clove

hitch,

and square; along with a good idea of when to use each and the ability
to

do

so quickly.
MMC (Navy coxswain, Navy and commercial diver, sailor, and all around

nosey

*******)

"Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message
. ..

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:36:43 -0700, "Gordon"
wrote:


What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be
something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the

hole"

knot.

Are you really having trouble making a bowline? Sure, you can use
other
knots to tie sheets to the jib. But they're going to be just as
"pesky"
and if you're a sailor, you should know how to make a bowline quickly
anyway.

Steve

You're correct that the two half hitches is handy if you need to
release it under load, but there are a limited number of times you
need that. Traditionally, when two half hitches is used in
"permanent" rigging aloft it is seized to insure it won't come loose.

When you say you take "two or three turns" before tying you are
actually describing two different knots - either the "round turn and
two half hitches" or the "rolling hitch." As I said, there are
variants that are superior. I think you agree with me, but didn't
realize these are considered different knots.


Garland Gray II wrote:
You are welcome to your opinion, but I think that is a rediculous statement.
A granny knot is clearly a knot done in error, but two half hitches can be a
very handy knot if a line needs to be tied or released while under a load.
I usually tie the half hitches after two or three turns around the piling.

"Jeff" wrote in message
...

Two half hitches is an almost useless knot. There are variants that
are vastly superior, but two half hitches by itself is about as useful
as a granny.

Garland Gray II wrote:

I'd put two half hitches on that list, right behind the bowline

"MMC" wrote in message
.com...


I agree with advocates of the bowline for the following reasons: 1) it

will


not come untied until you want it to, 2) when you want it to- you can

untie


it, and 3) it devalues the breaking strain of the line less than other
knots. In this I mean that if a line is put under heavy strain, it will
break at the knot before it reaches it's stated breaking point because

of

the bends required to form the knot will break first.
I'm a firm believer that a boater only needs 3 knots; bowline, clove

hitch,


and square; along with a good idea of when to use each and the ability

to

do


so quickly.
MMC (Navy coxswain, Navy and commercial diver, sailor, and all around

nosey


*******)

"Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message
m...


On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:36:43 -0700, "Gordon"

wrote:


What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be
something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the

hole"


knot.

Are you really having trouble making a bowline? Sure, you can use

other

knots to tie sheets to the jib. But they're going to be just as

"pesky"

and if you're a sailor, you should know how to make a bowline quickly
anyway.

Steve

Garland Gray II wrote:

I'd put two half hitches on that list, right behind the bowline

Would you call that a reef knot, or a granny?

Terry K

"MMC" wrote in message
m...

I agree with advocates of the bowline for the following reasons: 1) it

will

not come untied until you want it to, 2) when you want it to- you can

untie

it, and 3) it devalues the breaking strain of the line less than other
knots. In this I mean that if a line is put under heavy strain, it will
break at the knot before it reaches it's stated breaking point because of
the bends required to form the knot will break first.
I'm a firm believer that a boater only needs 3 knots; bowline, clove

hitch,

and square; along with a good idea of when to use each and the ability to

do

so quickly.
MMC (Navy coxswain, Navy and commercial diver, sailor, and all around

nosey

*******)

"Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message
. ..

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 11:36:43 -0700, "Gordon" wrote:


What's the best knot for attaching the sheets to the jib? Gotta be
something better than the "pesky wabbit around the tree and down the

hole"

knot.

Are you really having trouble making a bowline? Sure, you can use other
knots to tie sheets to the jib. But they're going to be just as "pesky"
and if you're a sailor, you should know how to make a bowline quickly
anyway.

Steve