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Another attack on yacht in Venezuela
Another yacht assault in Venezuela
Created by doina. Last modified on 2005-05-26 11:33:16 Contributors: Topic: Piracy Countries: Venezuela The catamaran "Madam", a Bahia 46, with owners Bruno and his wife Catherine on board, was anchored in Carenero, Venezuela, a hundred yards or so from the Carenero Yacht Club. On May 13 2005, at 2am, we were boarded by two young local guys, there was probably a third one waiting in a small boat. They stole binoculars, shoes and some portable electronics. Bruno woke-up and fought with them, taking from them a bat and a hammer they were using as weapons. One of the two thieves wanted to kill him ("lo mato!") with a knife but the other said to leave. They jumped in the water and left, taking the gear and leaving their knife in the cockpit. We then heard a shot and impact of a projectile in the water close to the boat. We called for help on CH16: after some time, some local "vigilancia" relayed the call in better spanish but no authority responded or showed up. Only the private guards of the nearby hotel called us and told us we could come anchor a hundred yards closer to them. We later learned that the Guardia Nacional sent a patrol on shore, but had no boat to come close to us. Despite numerous "mayday" calls between 2:10am and 6:00am no authority responded on CH16. Around 7am in the morning, Bruno went to see the Guardia Nacional asho they finally made it to the boat at 10:15am, took our deposition and the evidences of armed robbery left by the thieves: a big knife and a 3ft bat. Later came an officer from the "Capitania de Puerto Carenero" who wrote a report of the incident. To this hour, both have been very reluctant to give us any copy, even that of our own deposition. We invite you to broadcast this information as widely as possible in the hope to get more efficient reactions from the Venezuelian authorities. Bruno and Catherine Millet |
Thanks for this. Normally, I don't post salty language, but I've just
added Venezuela to my list of ****ing dumps I won't be visiting by sail. So far: Indonesia All of the Red Sea Venezuela Parts of Brazil Parts of Africa Parts of Central America (Costa Rica's still OK, and possibly Belize) U.S.A. if the jumped-up mall cops running "Homeland Security" think I might visit Cuba at some undefined point and decide that's reason to steal my boat. R. On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:51:12 +1000, Peter Hendra wrote: Another yacht assault in Venezuela Created by doina. Last modified on 2005-05-26 11:33:16 Contributors: Topic: Piracy Countries: Venezuela The catamaran "Madam", a Bahia 46, with owners Bruno and his wife Catherine on board, was anchored in Carenero, Venezuela, a hundred yards or so from the Carenero Yacht Club. On May 13 2005, at 2am, we were boarded by two young local guys, there was probably a third one waiting in a small boat. They stole binoculars, shoes and some portable electronics. Bruno woke-up and fought with them, taking from them a bat and a hammer they were using as weapons. One of the two thieves wanted to kill him ("lo mato!") with a knife but the other said to leave. They jumped in the water and left, taking the gear and leaving their knife in the cockpit. We then heard a shot and impact of a projectile in the water close to the boat. We called for help on CH16: after some time, some local "vigilancia" relayed the call in better spanish but no authority responded or showed up. Only the private guards of the nearby hotel called us and told us we could come anchor a hundred yards closer to them. We later learned that the Guardia Nacional sent a patrol on shore, but had no boat to come close to us. Despite numerous "mayday" calls between 2:10am and 6:00am no authority responded on CH16. Around 7am in the morning, Bruno went to see the Guardia Nacional asho they finally made it to the boat at 10:15am, took our deposition and the evidences of armed robbery left by the thieves: a big knife and a 3ft bat. Later came an officer from the "Capitania de Puerto Carenero" who wrote a report of the incident. To this hour, both have been very reluctant to give us any copy, even that of our own deposition. We invite you to broadcast this information as widely as possible in the hope to get more efficient reactions from the Venezuelian authorities. Bruno and Catherine Millet |
Oh, yeah, gotta ditto this. Yes, even the part about the U.S., despite
my status as a citizen of said entity. We're getting ready to start cruising toward the Caribbean in a coupla months (as soon as we get the new boat ready). We'll be flying a "world" flag from our stern. "Homeland Security!" Snort! A bureau name (and philosophy and tactics) straight out of the Third Reich. And is there anything more "unamerican" than the soi-disant "Patriot" Act? Lately, however, I've been hearing rumors of impeachment. I can only hope. Guess I'd better keep a U.S. ensign with the other courtesy flags. Just in case. But to move away from politics... Homeschooling at sea! I can't wait! The kids are pretty excited, too. |
"Frank" wrote in
oups.com: But to move away from politics... Homeschooling at sea! I can't wait! The kids are pretty excited, too. Here's a good link I found: http://www.doe.k12.ga.us/schools/homeschools.asp I have some liveaboard friends who home schooled two boys with a program from the Univerity of Nebraska-Lincoln: University of Nebraska-Lincoln Independence Study High School Tel: (402) 472-2175 Fax: (866) 700-4747 mentioned on this website. Both boys went on to earn masters degrees being automatically accepted at UNeb upon successful completion of the remote- controlled high school. I looked at some of the correspondence materials they used. Most impressive. World travelers, the boys got lots more experience at sea than any kid in the finest private school in the country. What they lacked was socialization with their generation, as do most home schoolers, which is not good. -- Larry You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and your outlined in chalk. |
Thanks, Larry,
We're John Holt-style *un*schoolers. As such, we reject the concept of curricula of any kind. And I say that as a product of a fairly rigorous schooling experience myself, including a college major in secondary education. And the "socialization" argument is, to be blunt, bogus. Homeschooled kids get more and better socialization than schooled kids, who are kept quiet in their desks 6 or more hours a day and segregated solely with their own age group, except during recess, when they get beat up by older bullies. How in the world is that "better socialization" than interacting with various people of various age groups in the real world, just like we hafta do as adults? If you observe homeschooled kids and schooled kids of the same age group in a social setting, I contend that you'll find the homeschooled kids to be universally better socialized and more comfortable with others (of all ages) than the schooled kids. And that's my $.02 on THAT subject! grin Frank, fato profugus |
Frank wrote:
Thanks, Larry, We're John Holt-style *un*schoolers. sweeping generalizations about school snipped The "socialization" I'd be more concerned about is the programming they get in US society to be unquestioning little consumers. It isn't the schools that teach kids to be sheep. It's so-called "popular culture" which is of course nothing more than advertising for consumer goods. |
I agree pretty much with your assessment of our culture, such as it is.
I think that the schools are part of the indoctrination process, however. Look at your own wording, "...teach the kids to be sheep." Where do kids spend most of their day being herded around, told what to do, told to be quiet, told when to think, and what to think, but not to think too much. Actually having an original thought and questioning something a teacher says is the rankest form of breaking from the herd and results in instant and complete ostracism. Do you disagree with my sweeping generalizations about school? |
"Frank" wrote in message ups.com... I agree pretty much with your assessment of our culture, such as it is. I think that the schools are part of the indoctrination process, however. Look at your own wording, "...teach the kids to be sheep." Where do kids spend most of their day being herded around, told what to do, told to be quiet, told when to think, and what to think, but not to think too much. Actually having an original thought and questioning something a teacher says is the rankest form of breaking from the herd and results in instant and complete ostracism. Do you disagree with my sweeping generalizations about school? Yes, somewhat. I always thought it was the sheep attempting to lead the wolfs. I still think that way. |
In article ,
Larry W4CSC wrote: I looked at some of the correspondence materials they used. Most impressive. World travelers, the boys got lots more experience at sea than any kid in the finest private school in the country. What they lacked was socialization with their generation, as do most home schoolers, which is not good. I'm not so sure. The socialization skills of the land-bound leaves a lot to be desired. My nieces and nephew (now about 25-35) were largely home schooled and their social skills are better than most of their contemporaries that I work with. In addition, their values and ethics are considerably more mature. In general, the cruising kids I see are better adjusted to the real world. They definitely know what responsibility is, and why it's important. -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
Frank wrote:
I agree pretty much with your assessment of our culture, such as it is. I think that the schools are part of the indoctrination process, however. Look at your own wording, "...teach the kids to be sheep." Where do kids spend most of their day being herded around, told what to do, told to be quiet, told when to think, and what to think, but not to think too much. Actually having an original thought and questioning something a teacher says is the rankest form of breaking from the herd and results in instant and complete ostracism. off the top of my head the pros 1. I think you are speaking from your own experience with a school system that didn't meet your needs. 2. You correctly want to protect your children from the same unhappy experience you had. 3. It's possible you are/were a "gifted" person. the cons 1. Your experience may not be your kids experience. 2. Kids need to experience life for themselves, which isn't to say that they need to experience "school". I think there's a lot to be said for getting out there. I just don't buy this "home-schooled makes better kids" crap. My in-laws home-school their kids in a Baptist ghetto. They're 2 years behind their peers in basic skills and if it ain't about Jesus, it ain't bein' discussed in the home. OMG!!!! Are all 2.5billion of the Chinese and Indian's going straight to hell because "they don't _know_ Jesus"? Going to get kinda crowded down there don't you think? 3. Your criticism of "school" is predicated on a presumption that it exists, perhaps based on your experience, to stifle the creative expresssion of intelligence. All I can say is that my experience, and my kid's experience was different...but then I didn't go to school in the US. 4. Kids don't know anything yet...they're kids...even if they are gifted. 5. Most teachers do have something to say, motivated by a desire to invigorate the minds of children. God knows they don't go into teaching for the money, so cut them a little slack. Do you disagree with my sweeping generalizations about school? ah...as a rule, I think sweeping generalizations are intellectually unsupportable. conclusion take 'em sailing life's short enjoy |
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 01:40:13 -0400, rhys wrote:
Thanks for this. Normally, I don't post salty language, but I've just added Venezuela to my list of ****ing dumps I won't be visiting by sail. So far: Indonesia All of the Red Sea Venezuela Parts of Brazil Parts of Africa Parts of Central America (Costa Rica's still OK, and possibly Belize) U.S.A. if the jumped-up mall cops running "Homeland Security" think I might visit Cuba at some undefined point and decide that's reason to steal my boat. Hi, Having sailed through the Red Sea and parts of Indonesia, don't write off all of these two great places. The only part of the Red Sea route where pirate attacks have occurred is in the Gulf of Aden. The Red Sea itself is very safe apart from having US helicopter gunships hovering just above one's mast top without identifying themselves and radio warnings on VHF of the danger of being fired upon by approaching US warships if we come within 2 miles of them or their convoys in international waters. Oman, Sudan, Egypt, Eritrea and Aden are very welcoming and safe, even for those US flagged yachts who traveled through the year we did (March 2003). By the way, with the "war on terror", why is it that these patroling warships never respond to a call for help by yachts and ships under attack but demand that a yacht identify itself in international waters? Parts of Indonesia are quite safe, especially the southern part of the island of Borneo. In other parts one must simply refuse to pay extra "fees". I understand that some parts of the US are not safe to visit as there is a danger of being robbed, mugged or murdered and that some officials are somewhat corrupt. Perhaps I am misinformed by the news reports that I have seen and the televised scenes of several police beating an unarmed black man on the ground. Possibly they were part of an elaborate Chinese/North Korean plot to discredit the land of the free and the home of that most advanced piece of democratic legislation - the Patriot Act, and extraterritorial imprisonment of foreign nationals. Forgive me for this but I have been wanting to have a moan for a while now. |
prodigal1 wrote in :
My in-laws home-school their kids in a Baptist ghetto. They're 2 years behind their peers in basic skills and if it ain't about Jesus, it ain't bein' discussed in the home. OMG!!!! Are all 2.5billion of the Chinese and Indian's going straight to hell because "they don't _know_ Jesus"? Going to get kinda crowded down there don't you think? My point, exactly. Noone is protecting the kids in these Jesus Ghettos from the brainwashing. My next door neighbor is 35. He was brought up in a World Church of God ghetto by a domineering mother. He's all screwed up from it and no amount of counseling has helped him heal the scars she caused him all his young life. He'd have been much healthier screwing around with Mary Lou under the football bleachers than having his head blown off by the Guilt Freaks For Jesus. -- Larry You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and your outlined in chalk. |
On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 08:52:27 -0400, Larry W4CSC
wrote: prodigal1 wrote in : My in-laws home-school their kids in a Baptist ghetto. They're 2 years behind their peers in basic skills and if it ain't about Jesus, it ain't bein' discussed in the home. OMG!!!! Are all 2.5billion of the Chinese and Indian's going straight to hell because "they don't _know_ Jesus"? Going to get kinda crowded down there don't you think? My point, exactly. Noone is protecting the kids in these Jesus Ghettos from the brainwashing. My next door neighbor is 35. He was brought up in a World Church of God ghetto by a domineering mother. He's all screwed up from it and no amount of counseling has helped him heal the scars she caused him all his young life. He'd have been much healthier screwing around with Mary Lou under the football bleachers than having his head blown off by the Guilt Freaks For Jesus. Hmmm...the statistics that I've stumbled across suggest that religous schools in general produce students that score ahead of regular school students on measures of academic achievement. I expect Larry has the data to back his views. He couldn't be operating simply on the basis of opinion even prejudioce, surely? :-) Brian Whatcott |
Whoa, guys! You call me on "sweeping generalizations" then reduce all
homeschooling to radical right-wing self-flagellating flat-earthers brainwashing their kids in ghettos. Let's try to find a little balance here. I certainly agree that *that* is not education; public school is infinitely superior. Ok? Larry, I couldn't agree more that I'd rather see a kid "discovering life" under the bleachers than having the kind of experience you related. Prodigal, you admit that you didn't even go to school in the US; but you're arguing with my comments. I not only attended school here, I was a teacher. Briefly. I admire teachers; I detest bureaucrats. Guess who, IMO, runs the schools and sets policies? I was pretty happy with my kids' school system. They attended for about three years. After first grade, they were, as you guessed, in gifted classes, where the entrance requirement was 98th %ile, i.e. MENSA level. (Where's Jax when you need him?) But homeschooling is much more fun and much more flexible. Whether a kid is "gifted" (however you define that) or not has no bearing on it. I *like* being with my kids. If you don't really like kids, homeschooling is definitely not the way you wanna go. Yes, I admit that, by the common school system definition, I was gifted (triple nine), as was my wife; and both girls are 99-plus, as well as they can measure that at their age. I had a wonderful education, courtesy of the Jesuits, not the US public school system. My wife's comments about her education in the US public school system can't be repeated in polite company. But agruing about giftedness is just a distraction. *Every kid* deserves to be nutured, not squashed. By your own admission, you are ignorant of the US school system. Don't take my opinion, then; look into it yourself. It's *at least* as bad as I paint it. There's a Japanese saying which applies perfectly to the way we "school" kids: the nail that stands up gets hammered down. Frank - IMO, FWIW, YMMV, etc. |
Self-followup. I find this tendency ("hammering down") to be a general
one in society, not confined to the school system alone. I add a poem by our favorite capitalization-impaired poet, ee cummings: to be nobody but yourself in a world whcih is doing its best, night and day, to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight, and never stop fighting |
Thanks, Larry. "Boat-schooling" is something we'll be doing after '08
if the plans hold...picture Skip Gundlach with a seven year old and twenty years younger! R. On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:21:59 -0400, Larry W4CSC wrote: "Frank" wrote in roups.com: But to move away from politics... Homeschooling at sea! I can't wait! The kids are pretty excited, too. Here's a good link I found: http://www.doe.k12.ga.us/schools/homeschools.asp I have some liveaboard friends who home schooled two boys with a program from the Univerity of Nebraska-Lincoln: University of Nebraska-Lincoln Independence Study High School Tel: (402) 472-2175 Fax: (866) 700-4747 mentioned on this website. Both boys went on to earn masters degrees being automatically accepted at UNeb upon successful completion of the remote- controlled high school. I looked at some of the correspondence materials they used. Most impressive. World travelers, the boys got lots more experience at sea than any kid in the finest private school in the country. What they lacked was socialization with their generation, as do most home schoolers, which is not good. |
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:13:53 -0400, prodigal1 wrote:
Frank wrote: Thanks, Larry, We're John Holt-style *un*schoolers. sweeping generalizations about school snipped The "socialization" I'd be more concerned about is the programming they get in US society to be unquestioning little consumers. It isn't the schools that teach kids to be sheep. It's so-called "popular culture" which is of course nothing more than advertising for consumer goods. It's not much different anywhere in the Western world, but it's worst (or most developed a system of persuasion, depending on your POV) in North America. We figure that an important side benefit of living on a boat (with occasional school terms ashore in foreign countries) will help our kid develop the critical thinking skills so he can make his own choices. As a marketer/advertising writer, I know how most "choices" are illusory. Life at sea is a good teacher, by contrast, on how to think clearly and rationally while maintaining a mystical relationship with nature and the sea. R. |
Hah! For me, picture Skip but with two pre-teen girls and a foot
shorter. |
rhys wrote in
: As a marketer/advertising writer, I know how most "choices" are illusory. Life at sea is a good teacher, by contrast, on how to think clearly and rationally while maintaining a mystical relationship with nature and the sea. Could you have become a "marketer/advertising writer" if you'd spent YOUR childhood at sea on correspondence courses?....or would you have become one of those poor slaves hauling out someone's nasty engine from the bilges? In other words, name 4 very successful people you know who were home schooled at sea by correspondence course....It's an interesting search. -- Larry You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and your outlined in chalk. |
Larry W4CSC wrote:
rhys wrote in : As a marketer/advertising writer, I know how most "choices" are illusory. Life at sea is a good teacher, by contrast, on how to think clearly and rationally while maintaining a mystical relationship with nature and the sea. Could you have become a "marketer/advertising writer" if you'd spent YOUR childhood at sea on correspondence courses?....or would you have become one of those poor slaves hauling out someone's nasty engine from the bilges? When people do something they really love, they tend to excell at it. Life at sea doesn't have to consist entirely of just boat related things. There are correspondence courses and ways to learn almost anything, considering books, the internet, satellites, etc. The key advantage of unschooling is that the person is doing something they really are enthusiastic about. When people do things they love they tend to master it and move on to other things, or just have fun the rest of their lives mastering what they mastered, and making a good living at it even. The key problem on a boat is the child needs to have opportunities to explore what interests them. This could present some major challenges to the homeschooling parent on a boat. In other words, name 4 very successful people you know who were home schooled at sea by correspondence course....It's an interesting search. Plenty of very successful people have been homeschooled and unschooled. You have a point about it being more rare and difficult on a boat, but it's not impossible. What if they decide to *facilitate* the child's schooling by, say, going to places for the sake of the that sometimes? -- Stephen ------- For any proposition there is always some sufficiently narrow interpretation of its terms, such that it turns out true, and some sufficiently wide interpretation such that it turns out false...concept stretching will refute *any* statement, and will leave no true statement whatsoever. -- Imre Lakatos |
Larry asks:
Could you have become a "marketer/advertising writer" if you'd spent YOUR childhood at sea on correspondence courses?.... Easily. Much more easily than a typical product of the US lower/high school system could. Our university system is pretty good, however. and... or would you have become one of those poor slaves hauling out someone's nasty engine from the bilges? Like the employees at the local fast-food place whose math skills are so pitiful that they can't make change? These people are called "high school graduates." Same as that poor grunt hauling your oily engine or grinding your fouled bottom for negligible compensation. Define "success" for me and we can have an interesting discussion about that. I'll bet my definition differs greatly from yours. For instance, mine includes "fun" as one of the more important components. |
Stephen, I like what you're saying and I wanna comment on this:
You said: The key problem on a boat is the child needs to have opportunities to explore what interests them. This could present some major challenges to the homeschooling parent on a boat. Hey! Drop the phrase "on a boat." This is the key problem for a homeschooling parent in New York City, suburban San Diego, or East Podunk. It's also the key problem for any kid, schooled by any method, in a school or otherwise. As for it being a challenge for a homeschooler on a boat, that's certainly true; but that's what the www is for. However, it's just as true for a kid sitting at his desk in P.S. 101, prepping for the latest round of "standardized testing" when what he wants desperately to investigate is plate tectonics. The difference is that the homeschooler can tell his folks that and off they go on an exploration of the world of plate tectonics. Meanwhile, the kid at P.S. 101 is still stuck at his desk learning how to give the "correct" answers on the latest "measurement device" (test) to ensure funding under the "no kid is left behind" extortion scheme. Behind what, I'm not sure. |
Frank wrote:
Stephen, I like what you're saying and I wanna comment on this: You said: The key problem on a boat is the child needs to have opportunities to explore what interests them. This could present some major challenges to the homeschooling parent on a boat. Hey! Drop the phrase "on a boat." This is the key problem for a homeschooling parent in New York City, suburban San Diego, or East Podunk. It's also the key problem for any kid, schooled by any method, in a school or otherwise. As for it being a challenge for a homeschooler on a boat, that's certainly true; but that's what the www is for. However, it's just as true for a kid sitting at his desk in P.S. 101, prepping for the latest round of "standardized testing" when what he wants desperately to investigate is plate tectonics. The difference is that the homeschooler can tell his folks that and off they go on an exploration of the world of plate tectonics. Meanwhile, the kid at P.S. 101 is still stuck at his desk learning how to give the "correct" answers on the latest "measurement device" (test) to ensure funding under the "no kid is left behind" extortion scheme. Behind what, I'm not sure. Yeah, you're right. Stephen -- Stephen ------- For any proposition there is always some sufficiently narrow interpretation of its terms, such that it turns out true, and some sufficiently wide interpretation such that it turns out false...concept stretching will refute *any* statement, and will leave no true statement whatsoever. -- Imre Lakatos |
"Stephen Trapani" wrote
Frank wrote: snip After all the comentary and back slapping nobody responded to Larry's challenge: "In other words, name 4 very successful people you know who were home schooled at sea by correspondence course". I've done a lot of hiring for well-paying jobs. Employers want credentials. Your home-schooled kid may be better educated than the product of PS101 but do you have a paper that says so, or that (s)he has any education at all. And if I'm to compare several candidates I want to see scores on standardized tests. |
Vito wrote:
"Stephen Trapani" wrote Frank wrote: snip After all the comentary and back slapping nobody responded to Larry's challenge: "In other words, name 4 very successful people you know who were home schooled at sea by correspondence course". I've done a lot of hiring for well-paying jobs. Employers want credentials. Your home-schooled kid may be better educated than the product of PS101 but do you have a paper that says so, or that (s)he has any education at all. And if I'm to compare several candidates I want to see scores on standardized tests. I did answer him, but maybe you'll like this better: http://www.home4schoolgear.com/famoushomeschooler.html or this: http://users.safeaccess.com/olsen/famous.html or this: http://www.homeschoolutah.org/pages/pastandpresent.htm Even on these very incomplete lists you can see there have been plenty of successful homeschoolers, no matter how you measure "success." I'm an employer also. What matters most to me is past work experience and some indication from the person that they can do what I want them to do. Their schooling is one of the least important things I consider. And a "standardized test" is worthless unless performance on the test somehow relates to their prospective job duties. Anyway, most homeschoolers would do well on such tests. Why wouldn't they? -- Stephen |
This is just stupid. What kind of people invest in a yacht, anchor it
in a foriegn cove, and go to sleep leaving their important items all over the place and things unlocked, as if they are in their livingroom? And what kind of people commit this idiocy, and then spend all night and the next day calling "mayday", and thinking it is something the local police can, or even ought to try, to investigate & solve? But worst of all, what kind of people go further and propagate all this stupidity and ignorance all over the world? Yep, it sure is getting dangerous - the increasing danger of idiots with crusing boats, that is... |
rhys wrote:
Thanks for this. Normally, I don't post salty language, but I've just added Venezuela to my list of ****ing dumps I won't be visiting by sail. So far: Indonesia All of the Red Sea Venezuela Parts of Brazil Parts of Africa Parts of Central America (Costa Rica's still OK, and possibly Belize) U.S.A. if the jumped-up mall cops running "Homeland Security" think I might visit Cuba at some undefined point and decide that's reason to steal my boat. One wonders whether this miscreant may have realized that a great many of the residents of these countries consider his own to be a ****ing dump, too, except for it's inestimably greater & more universal arrogance that tempts everyone to rip its vacationers off by any means available? People like this guy HELP CAUSE piracy. |
Frank wrote:
Oh, yeah, gotta ditto this. Yes, even the part about the U.S., despite my status as a citizen of said entity. We're getting ready to start cruising toward the Caribbean in a coupla months (as soon as we get the new boat ready). We'll be flying a "world" flag from our stern. "Homeland Security!" Snort! A bureau name (and philosophy and tactics) straight out of the Third Reich. And is there anything more "unamerican" than the soi-disant "Patriot" Act? Lately, however, I've been hearing rumors of impeachment. I can only hope. Guess I'd better keep a U.S. ensign with the other courtesy flags. Just in case. But to move away from politics... Homeschooling at sea! I can't wait! The kids are pretty excited, too. I hope you are keeping them far from the WWW & TV and teaching them the Mandarin they will soon need to survive in the coming reich. Another Frank Former Homeschooler |
Vito wrote:
snip And if I'm to compare several candidates I want to see scores on standardized tests. The results of standardized testing provide only at best a simplistic and at worse, an irrelevant answer to the question you're asking. I'm always surprised when I see/read people comments indicating that these blunt instruments have some sort of validity. |
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prodigal1 wrote:
wrote: snippage you sound like an angry person time to go sailing or perhaps you have a gun or three that need cleaning? Your inference is amiss, I am a happy and contented person. I simply do not suffer fools who blame others for their own behavior easily, and I feel such are a detriment to the sailing world and ultimately to those of us who sail in prudence and peace. |
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On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:17:33 -0400, prodigal1 wrote:
Vito wrote: snip And if I'm to compare several candidates I want to see scores on standardized tests. The results of standardized testing provide only at best a simplistic and at worse, an irrelevant answer to the question you're asking. I'm always surprised when I see/read people comments indicating that these blunt instruments have some sort of validity. OK, time for a definition of terms he What I am interested in pursuing is not "homeschooling" in the sense of someone completely off the radar of a standardized education, but "distance learning", whereby my kid, living on a boat, is educated to the standards of my land-based jurisdiction, and receives the standard credits and credentials. And, if he proves able, is allowed to accelerate his learning at his own pace in subjects of his choosing. This would require flexibility on the part of the issuing schoolboard, but as I live in a city of several million, and know of several fellow citizens who've taught kids on boats, AND it is anticipated that my wife will have earned a teaching certificate by then and herself will be the "in-house" teacher, I don't think we, with the use of modern communications, patience and the stimulating environment of the sea, will have a lot of trouble. The kid's already bright, willfull and motivated to learn at 3 3/4...I expect he'll be running plots by age eight G. R. |
Stephen Trapani wrote in
: The key problem on a boat is the child needs to have opportunities to explore what interests them. This could present some major challenges to the homeschooling parent on a boat. There's the point. Maybe the child doesn't WANT to live on the boat without his friends, particularly his girlfriend, without his bike, without a real neighborhood full of other kids to socialize with. But...alas....DADDY DOES and he's forced to go. He may not tell Daddy he doesn't want to live on that cramped little isolated island in the middle of nowhere because he'll cause a fight, hurt daddy's feelings, etc.....but he's lost interest in the novelty...no TV...no internet...no friends...no school activities...just living on that deserted desert island of fiberglass. -- Larry You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and your outlined in chalk. |
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"Vito" wrote in
: I've done a lot of hiring for well-paying jobs. Employers want credentials. Your home-schooled kid may be better educated than the product of PS101 but do you have a paper that says so, or that (s)he has any education at all. And if I'm to compare several candidates I want to see scores on standardized tests. And, armed with the information this applicant lived the first 15 years of his life on a fiberglass island like a hermit....would you think he'd fit into a busy office, factory, "department" in a large, heavily-populated business? I wouldn't. Home schooling's isolationists are bad enough. Pile that on top of living with those independent-minded hermits at the dock and I think you're doing serious damage to the poor kid. Take him on a cruise, by all means! But make him live years on a boat....NOT. -- Larry You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and your outlined in chalk. |
Larry W4CSC wrote:
Stephen Trapani wrote in : The key problem on a boat is the child needs to have opportunities to explore what interests them. This could present some major challenges to the homeschooling parent on a boat. There's the point. Maybe the child doesn't WANT to live on the boat without his friends, particularly his girlfriend, without his bike, without a real neighborhood full of other kids to socialize with. But...alas....DADDY DOES and he's forced to go. He may not tell Daddy he doesn't want to live on that cramped little isolated island in the middle of nowhere because he'll cause a fight, hurt daddy's feelings, etc.....but he's lost interest in the novelty...no TV...no internet...no friends...no school activities...just living on that deserted desert island of fiberglass. Yeah, I'm against that. -- Stephen ------- For any proposition there is always some sufficiently narrow interpretation of its terms, such that it turns out true, and some sufficiently wide interpretation such that it turns out false...concept stretching will refute *any* statement, and will leave no true statement whatsoever. -- Imre Lakatos |
"Stephen Trapani" wrote
I did answer him, but maybe you'll like this better: http://www.home4schoolgear.com/famoushomeschooler.html http://users.safeaccess.com/olsen/famous.html All old & out of date - from times when everybody was home schooled. Even on these very incomplete lists you can see there have been plenty of successful homeschoolers, no matter how you measure "success." I'm an employer also. What matters most to me is past work experience ...... homeschoolers would do well on such tests. Why wouldn't they? Homeschoolers may do well IF they take the tests in a proctored environment. Do they? I believe most colleges want to see High School transcripts before admitting students to degree programs. Is this not true? If so, where do homeschoolers get them. Will colleges believe parents? Most job req's I see begin with "A degree in XXX from an accredited institution plus ..." Even sub-professional jobs want a high school diploma or GED. I guess homeschoolers can begin with a GED but the assumption tends to be that the candidate had a problem with school. Homeschoolers may be better educated but if I have five ap's for one job (typical) I'll begin by interviewing the one who looks best- and, other things being equal, that won't be the guy with a GED. If the 1st or 2nd applicant seems good I'll hire him/her and send the rest dear john letters. Tain't fair but .... That's why I believe you may be hurting your kids futures by not getting them the credentials they'll need. If you can home school AND get the credentials by all means do so. |
Larry W4CSC wrote:
"Vito" wrote in : I've done a lot of hiring for well-paying jobs. Employers want credentials. Your home-schooled kid may be better educated than the product of PS101 but do you have a paper that says so, or that (s)he has any education at all. And if I'm to compare several candidates I want to see scores on standardized tests. And, armed with the information this applicant lived the first 15 years of his life on a fiberglass island like a hermit....would you think he'd fit into a busy office, factory, "department" in a large, heavily-populated business? I wouldn't. Home schooling's isolationists are bad enough. Pile that on top of living with those independent-minded hermits at the dock and I think you're doing serious damage to the poor kid. Take him on a cruise, by all means! But make him live years on a boat....NOT. It's almost unspeakably sad, if not revolting, that some of the above posters have actually been, or are, PARENTS. But they would never undersant WHY. |
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