Don W wrote in
:

the islamic world.

I've worked in Iran, for the Iranian Air Force under the Shahanshah. I've
fixed ships in Bahrain from Charleston Naval Shipyard, our Great White
Fleet at Bahrain's port. I left Iran about 28 days before the Shah did in
'79. I'd go back next week if they had a friendly government, again.

If you tire of the constant onslaught of Tel Aviv TV telling Americans they
are all just terrorists and want to kill us all, take a little trip to
Mahmood's Blog for fun in Bahrain to see what normal Arab people are really
like. Mahmood's Blog is in English. He's a fluent English Arab, probably
trained at the British School in Al Manama or in England. He has great
videos of all kinds of silly things Bahrainis take quite seriously. The
video yesterday was about a guy who saves an endangered Bahraini frog that
lives on the desert island the development threatens.

Note how normal Arab people are kinda laid back, not what CNN wants you to
think at all!....hee hee.

http://www.mahmood.tv/

Warning! His colorful language ISN'T what you hear coming from a
mosque!...(c; He's getting much better at video productions, of late.
There's great pointers to other Arab English language blogs from his site,
too. Bahraini Girl is a good read. Mahmood's coverage of the Formula 1
racing in Bahrain has some great pictures of beautiful expat and Bahraini
women...without the covering! Bahrainis tolerate a lot of outside ideas.
They've had 7000 years of foreign traders to corrupt them...

--
Larry

You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and you're outlined in
chalk.

If all you look at is the GPA and a transcript from any highschool you will
probably hire the wrong person. Home/yacht schooled kids still have to take
proctored standardized tests like the ITBS and SAT and most score
considerably higher than traditional school students. They also tend to
present themselves with a good deal more maturity.

That does not necessarily hold true for the farm raised religious
conservative but a kid who spent his highschool years cruising the world
with a recognized home schooling program is usually head and shoulders above
the average public highschool graduate.

This is only a single example but my brother in law took his kids cruising
from the 8th to 10th grades and used the University of Nebraska service.
When they came ashore and enrolled in a top notch private school in
Savannah the kids were placed a grade level higher and still graduated at
the top of their classes. And this was before internet access was available
almost everywhere.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Vito" wrote in message
...

That has nothing to do with my, or Larry's point. Say I'm looking at five
resumes for a trainee position. Four graduated from a Cleveland HS with
above average GPAs. One spent the last 15 years on a boat cruising the
islands with his parents who 'home schooled' him, but he has nothing to
prove that. I don't know if his parents were conscientious or religious
kooks. Now,am I going to call any of them in to take hours of tests to
prove
they learned enough to do the job at hand, or am I going to believe the
GPAs
and transcripts and round file the fifth kid? It'd be different if the
home
schooled kid had the equivalent of the others' credentials but if he
doesn't
he's SOL.

Fair? The world isn't fair.

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 08:22:44 -0400, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:

If all you look at is the GPA and a transcript from any highschool you will
probably hire the wrong person. Home/yacht schooled kids still have to take
proctored standardized tests like the ITBS and SAT and most score
considerably higher than traditional school students. They also tend to
present themselves with a good deal more maturity.

That does not necessarily hold true for the farm raised religious
conservative but a kid who spent his highschool years cruising the world
with a recognized home schooling program is usually head and shoulders above
the average public highschool graduate.

This is only a single example but my brother in law took his kids cruising
from the 8th to 10th grades and used the University of Nebraska service.
When they came ashore and enrolled in a top notch private school in
Savannah the kids were placed a grade level higher and still graduated at
the top of their classes. And this was before internet access was available
almost everywhere.


It's a hard lesson for folks to swallow: that big high schools,
despite the wider choice of options - are an adverse educational
influence.
Mid-size schools can also suffer from a dearth of choice.

But tutor education which is student centered - which was the choice
of the very rich for hundreds of years - can be unequaled - given a
sutable quality of tutor.
Home-schooling can easily aspire to this level of tutelage, though if
the educational sub-strate is too far from the mainstream, perhaps
inerrant bible-centered, or extreme Paganism, then the advantage is
turned to deficit.

I have spoken to a few home-schooled children, fearing for their
social skills, and have always been pleasantly surprized by their
composure, their friendliness and their know-how.

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

"prodigal1" wrote
Vito wrote:
I don't owe anybody 'due dilligence'.

Vito, you owe yourself/your employer _your_ due diligence.

Yes - to the extent that I hire qualified, capable employees. I have been
very successful at doing so. But NO, I do not owe every applicant an
interview or an in-depth test to determine his/her qualifications. Rather,
the burden in on the applicant to show me enough potential to be worth
interviewing.

there's not much more we have to communicate about

True.

"WaIIy" wrote
I don't know about Larry, but you certainly have another agenda here.

Yes, I do. There is a flock of spoiled brats out there who now producing
kids of their own. They wanted a baby for a pet but now it is school age
and interferes with their "lifestyle". So, they decide to "homeschool"
which to them means handing the kid a book to read on watch. But one day the
kid wants to fly the nest. What can it do. Well, it can sail, but that
doesn't pay well. Or it can become a prostitute, but they usually don't live
well or long. Or a yard bird or ...??.

Now let's say you don't fit that category - that you take parenting
seriously, want your kids to have a better education than they can get in
public or private schools and are qualified to provide it. The latter is
dubious, I don't know many couples who are qualified to teach mathematics
and sciences and art and music and athletics all at once. But say you are.
Even then it is important that you *get your kids credentials* to prove that
they have acquired certain knowledge that they may get a job or into
college!

My "agenda" is to make parents understand that obligation.

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote
...... Home/yacht schooled kids still have to take
proctored standardized tests like the ITBS and SAT and most score
considerably higher than traditional school students.

That does not necessarily hold true for the farm raised religious
conservative but a kid who spent his highschool years cruising the world
with a recognized home schooling program is usually head and shoulders
above
the average public highschool graduate.

This proves it possible to get credentials for home schooled kids. The
important thing is that their parents know this from the git go and make
sure the kids get them. But I wonder how many do.

You guys don't seem to be getting the message. Perhaps it's one you
don't want to hear, but if you have kids and plan on home-schooling
them, *and* want your kids to have at least as good a shot as their
conventionally schooled peers, take it on board. The kids need the bits
of paper showing they've had an education to a certain standard. Home
schooling them is fine, as long as they can take tests somewhere
reputable.

I just went through applications for a job in my group. I culled all
those who didn't meet the educational quals before going any further
and making a shortlist to interview, then I check work experience etc.
One I culled might well be a lot better than the person I picked.
Life's like that and as long as the one I get is capable, I can live
with the outcome. Vito is 100% correct, interviewers aren't gonna go to
huge lengths to pay lip service to procedural fairness. Doesn't work
anyway.

The best programmer I ever had working for me was a 40+ woman with no
quals, who demonstrated what she could do while in another role. I
insisted she get the bits of paper and got her promoted, but she'd lost
20 years in a low paying spot by then, and she was lucky. A few years
later she was heading up a project I was interested in so I went to
work for her for a while. It's possible to overcome the lack of formal
quals, but it's a lot harder than getting them.

Personally I have little time for conventional education systems. The
number of kids on Ritalin etc for diagnosed ADHD is an indictment of
the teachers, IMO. Nonetheless, no paper, no interview with my group.

My daughters went to Catholic high schools. They're a lot better than
the public schools IMO, as far as focus on learning goes.

PDW

In article , Stephen Trapani
wrote:

Vito wrote:

"Stephen Trapani" wrote

I did answer him, but maybe you'll like this better:

http://www.home4schoolgear.com/famoushomeschooler.html

http://users.safeaccess.com/olsen/famous.html


All old & out of date - from times when everybody was home schooled.

Pardon my saying, but you seem to have a bias against homeschooling. Why
else would you snip out the third link I provided, which had more
modern examples? Why else would you ignore the plethora of twentieth
century ("the age of schooling") examples in the two links above?

Even on these very incomplete lists you can see there have been plenty
of successful homeschoolers, no matter how you measure "success."

I'm an employer also. What matters most to me is past work experience

.....

homeschoolers would do well on such tests. Why wouldn't they?


Homeschoolers may do well IF they take the tests in a proctored environment.
Do they?

Definitely. I have personal experience with a child who was entering
fourth grade after being homeschooled entirely previous to that. In
standard tests, for placement, he scored at or above his age group in
every category. He got straight 'A's the whole year in school. I've
heard numerous similar stories.

I believe most colleges want to see High School transcripts before admitting
students to degree programs. Is this not true? If so, where do
homeschoolers get them. Will colleges believe parents?

Many many colleges and universities accept homeschoolers aplenty. Here's
a partial list. Note Harvad, Yale and the like are on the list:

http://learninfreedom.org/colleges_4_hmsc.html


Most job req's I see begin with "A degree in XXX from an accredited
institution plus ..." Even sub-professional jobs want a high school diploma
or GED. I guess homeschoolers can begin with a GED but the assumption tends
to be that the candidate had a problem with school.

Some jobs do require college degrees. As you can see above,
homeschoolers who want such degrees shouldn't have any trouble getting
into good universities. And don't forget, for the majority of good jobs,
a college degree is superfluous.


Homeschoolers may be better educated but if I have five ap's for one job
(typical) I'll begin by interviewing the one who looks best- and, other
things being equal, that won't be the guy with a GED. If the 1st or 2nd
applicant seems good I'll hire him/her and send the rest dear john letters.
Tain't fair but .... That's why I believe you may be hurting your kids
futures by not getting them the credentials they'll need. If you can home
school AND get the credentials by all means do so.

It makes sense if you're excluding drop outs, but if you are excluding
those who are homeschooled, surely you are making a big mistake.


Stephen

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 23:18:56 -0400, prodigal1 wrote:

wrote:

Your inference is amiss, I am a happy and contented person. I simply
do not suffer fools who blame others for their own behavior easily, and
I feel such are a detriment to the sailing world and ultimately to
those of us who sail in prudence and peace.

then I stand corrected

Amazing.......................
And, in the meantime, the people on the yacht in Vevezuela whose misfortune to
be attacked and with no homeschoolers or other children aboard started this
thread, have supposedly not heard any more from the police.

Good discussion though.

FWIW,
Our two children (now 29 and 30) who completed their high school years on the NZ
government correspondence system seem to be doing OK. Our daughter has a good
job in IT, has just bought her second house in Sydney Aus and has just gotten
engaged - unfortunately or otherwise toan Englishman (could have been worse -
could have been from the US). The reason why we sent our 13 year old back to
school was for socialisation reasons, not academic after 1 week, the school put
him up a grade - not at our behest either. You can homeschool your kids - we
took him off correspondence as we considered it too unchallenging and rather
boring/tedious.

Also FWIW - I once saw a gathering of homeschoolers on Boston Common. I was
interested to note that many said that they homeschooled their children for
religious reasons whereas in New Zealand and Australia it is generally because
we believe we can better educate our kids.
Peter

Peter Hendra wrote in
:

Also FWIW - I once saw a gathering of homeschoolers on Boston Common.
I was interested to note that many said that they homeschooled their
children for religious reasons whereas in New Zealand and Australia it
is generally because we believe we can better educate our kids.
Peter



Not long ago the local Weather Bureaucrats had the NOAA Hurricane Hunter
aircraft come to Charleston for show and tell. A bunch of us hams went out
and stood in the pouring rain all day to help with crowd control and
communications because they bussed school kids in from all over eastern SC
and Savannah schools to take the tours. About 800 kids showed up.

In the pouring down rain, it WAS noteworthy that less than 5% of the kids
from the awful SC public schools had any raingear at all, while 90% of the
homeschooler group that came in later were all dressed out in their
slickers, boots, useless umbrellas in the 30 knot winds blowing the rain
and umbrellas all over. In a practical sense, the homeschoolers were much
better prepared....and much more interested in the meteorologist's
presentation (given over my stepvan's DJ sound system because they didn't
have one).

Homeschoolers - 90
Public Schoolers - 5

(c;

PS - The navigator and I were talking about his comm problems inside the
storm, so I got a little more detailed tour than the kids did...(c;
Yes, they DO have HF SSB on the plane and yes, I did make 4 ham contacts on
20 meters from a hurricane hunter aircraft...(c;

DE W4CSC/Aeronautical Mobile

Plane needs more antenna.....(sigh)


--
Larry

You know you've had a rough night when you wake up and you're outlined in
chalk.

Peter Hendra wrote:

Also FWIW - I once saw a gathering of homeschoolers on Boston Common. I was
interested to note that many said that they homeschooled their children for
religious reasons whereas in New Zealand and Australia it is generally because
we believe we can better educate our kids.

Some homeschool to protect their children from being dehumanbized by
the behaviorism which drives the globalist workforce training system
wrongly called "education."