Only problem w/ running an engine w/out a thermostat is you may never warm
the engine to proper temp and you may find the engine running rich all the
time. This will cost you in fuel but won't hurt the engine (except for
possibly carbon buildup over a long time).

Won't hurt in terms of overheat as the max coolant is flowing all the time.
If the engine overheats and warps something in this condition it would
really overheat w/ a thermostat installed as a fully open thermostat adds a
certain amount of restriction just due to the metal parts being there.

--
Tony
my boats and cars at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com

-
"Bowgus" wrote in message
...
A suggestion ... don't run the engine very long without a thermostat ...
even better, don't run without a thermostat at all. One of the
thermostat's
function I've been told is to ensure a relatively consistent engine
temperature preventing parts warp etc.. Having said that, I had a
thermostat
fail closed on a Toyota. I removed it and drove home from ...
interestingly
enough Johnstown near where you're at ... to Ottawa without any apparent
problems.

I am going to try it this weekend with no thermostat and see what
happens. Stay tuned ...

You can run the engine without a thermostat, but it never gets up to normal
operating temperature and you get lots more wear, and worse fuel economy. I
have had a thermostat stick open, winter time returning from Tahoe. No car
problem, except for ice on the inside the windows, and we and the daughters,
had on most of out heavy ski clothes.

"Bowgus" wrote in message
...
A suggestion ... don't run the engine very long without a thermostat ...
even better, don't run without a thermostat at all. One of the
thermostat's
function I've been told is to ensure a relatively consistent engine
temperature preventing parts warp etc.. Having said that, I had a
thermostat
fail closed on a Toyota. I removed it and drove home from ...
interestingly
enough Johnstown near where you're at ... to Ottawa without any apparent
problems.

I am going to try it this weekend with no thermostat and see what
happens. Stay tuned ...

It's not "overheat" or "underheat" ... it's "uneven heat" that (I was told)
may cause a problem ... it's ... one part of the engine is hot and one part
of the engine is cold(er) than it should be because of the lack of
temperature regulation provided by the thermostat. I myself will run my
engines with the thermostat installed ... you guys can do (obviously) as you
like :-)

OT: My mercruiser thermostat is 140 F ... I myself find that unususual
compared to an auto thermostat. My understanding ... an auto engine is most
efficient around 235 F (achievable because the sytem is pressurized). So ...
why the low temp for the marine (version) engine?

"tony thomas" wrote in message
newsz5qe.31276$x96.130@attbi_s72...
Only problem w/ running an engine w/out a thermostat is you may never warm
the engine to proper temp and you may find the engine running rich all the
time. This will cost you in fuel but won't hurt the engine (except for
possibly carbon buildup over a long time).

Won't hurt in terms of overheat as the max coolant is flowing all the
time.
If the engine overheats and warps something in this condition it would
really overheat w/ a thermostat installed as a fully open thermostat adds
a
certain amount of restriction just due to the metal parts being there.

--
Tony
my boats and cars at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com

-
"Bowgus" wrote in message
...
A suggestion ... don't run the engine very long without a thermostat ...
even better, don't run without a thermostat at all. One of the
thermostat's
function I've been told is to ensure a relatively consistent engine
temperature preventing parts warp etc.. Having said that, I had a
thermostat
fail closed on a Toyota. I removed it and drove home from ...
interestingly
enough Johnstown near where you're at ... to Ottawa without any apparent
problems.

I am going to try it this weekend with no thermostat and see what
happens. Stay tuned ...

About the 140 F ... could it be because the manufacturer realizes that a
lotta boaters run their boats at WOT (= heat) ... whereas most :-) auto
drivers don't?

OT: had the boat out first time this year ... ran just fine ... an excellent
day out. Too bad the weekend is not looking good ... we're looking forward
to trailering down to Ivy Lea for the up to Gananoque, across and down the
US side, around the castle, back to Ivy Lea loop ... and the islands just
off Gananoque ... very nice.

"Bowgus" wrote in message
...
It's not "overheat" or "underheat" ... it's "uneven heat" that (I was
told)
may cause a problem ... it's ... one part of the engine is hot and one
part
of the engine is cold(er) than it should be because of the lack of
temperature regulation provided by the thermostat. I myself will run my
engines with the thermostat installed ... you guys can do (obviously) as
you
like :-)

OT: My mercruiser thermostat is 140 F ... I myself find that unususual
compared to an auto thermostat. My understanding ... an auto engine is
most
efficient around 235 F (achievable because the sytem is pressurized). So
....
why the low temp for the marine (version) engine?

"tony thomas" wrote in message
newsz5qe.31276$x96.130@attbi_s72...
Only problem w/ running an engine w/out a thermostat is you may never
warm
the engine to proper temp and you may find the engine running rich all
the
time. This will cost you in fuel but won't hurt the engine (except for
possibly carbon buildup over a long time).

Won't hurt in terms of overheat as the max coolant is flowing all the
time.
If the engine overheats and warps something in this condition it would
really overheat w/ a thermostat installed as a fully open thermostat
adds
a
certain amount of restriction just due to the metal parts being there.

--
Tony
my boats and cars at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com

-
"Bowgus" wrote in message
...
A suggestion ... don't run the engine very long without a thermostat
....
even better, don't run without a thermostat at all. One of the
thermostat's
function I've been told is to ensure a relatively consistent engine
temperature preventing parts warp etc.. Having said that, I had a
thermostat
fail closed on a Toyota. I removed it and drove home from ...
interestingly
enough Johnstown near where you're at ... to Ottawa without any
apparent
problems.

I am going to try it this weekend with no thermostat and see what
happens. Stay tuned ...

Just remembered ... here's my old beater under "Bowgus"
http://thebayguide.com/rec.boats/ ... if you should spot me down there in
the 1000 Islands, gimme a shout :-)

Don't forget on a closed (rad) system with antifreeze the boiling point is
substantially higher then raw water and no pressure. Also, most carb based
cars ran 165's, wasn't until injection and pollution controls that the
higher 185's etc came in. One trick to make more power from an injected
engine is to run a 165 thermo and reprogram the computer to except that as
'closed loop' meaning fully warmed up. But it raises pollution. A boat
could run as high as a 165, but to go to a 185 (with typical 10% variance)
pushes it way to close to that magic 212 . Also, in an engine with a 165,
areas around the heads can run up another 20d without the thermostat seeing
that, thus the safety range.


Mark, if the thermostat proves to be the culprit, don't run without it,
replace it, they are only 8 bucks for a Chev and help not just mileage but
lubrication and so on. Also pistons and other critical parts are sized to
work best at a certain temperature.. Don't skip looking at the engine pump
as I suggested a while back. If it is worn, the added restriction of a
thermostat will cause your problem, removing that restriction isn't a fix,
getting a pump that circulates the water correctly is. Look to the
automotive side for the pump, same part (don't do so for starters,
alternators etc, but pump is the same)..

Greg


"Bowgus" wrote in message
news
About the 140 F ... could it be because the manufacturer realizes that a
lotta boaters run their boats at WOT (= heat) ... whereas most :-) auto
drivers don't?

OT: had the boat out first time this year ... ran just fine ... an
excellent
day out. Too bad the weekend is not looking good ... we're looking forward
to trailering down to Ivy Lea for the up to Gananoque, across and down the
US side, around the castle, back to Ivy Lea loop ... and the islands just
off Gananoque ... very nice.

"Bowgus" wrote in message
...
It's not "overheat" or "underheat" ... it's "uneven heat" that (I was
told)
may cause a problem ... it's ... one part of the engine is hot and one
part
of the engine is cold(er) than it should be because of the lack of
temperature regulation provided by the thermostat. I myself will run my
engines with the thermostat installed ... you guys can do (obviously) as
you
like :-)

OT: My mercruiser thermostat is 140 F ... I myself find that unususual
compared to an auto thermostat. My understanding ... an auto engine is
most
efficient around 235 F (achievable because the sytem is pressurized). So
...
why the low temp for the marine (version) engine?

"tony thomas" wrote in message
newsz5qe.31276$x96.130@attbi_s72...
Only problem w/ running an engine w/out a thermostat is you may never
warm
the engine to proper temp and you may find the engine running rich all
the
time. This will cost you in fuel but won't hurt the engine (except
for
possibly carbon buildup over a long time).

Won't hurt in terms of overheat as the max coolant is flowing all the
time.
If the engine overheats and warps something in this condition it would
really overheat w/ a thermostat installed as a fully open thermostat
adds
a
certain amount of restriction just due to the metal parts being there.

--
Tony
my boats and cars at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com

-
"Bowgus" wrote in message
...
A suggestion ... don't run the engine very long without a thermostat
...
even better, don't run without a thermostat at all. One of the
thermostat's
function I've been told is to ensure a relatively consistent engine
temperature preventing parts warp etc.. Having said that, I had a
thermostat
fail closed on a Toyota. I removed it and drove home from ...
interestingly
enough Johnstown near where you're at ... to Ottawa without any
apparent
problems.

I am going to try it this weekend with no thermostat and see what
happens. Stay tuned ...

"Bowgus" wrote in message
...
It's not "overheat" or "underheat" ... it's "uneven heat" that (I was
told)
may cause a problem ... it's ... one part of the engine is hot and one
part
of the engine is cold(er) than it should be because of the lack of
temperature regulation provided by the thermostat. I myself will run my
engines with the thermostat installed ... you guys can do (obviously) as
you
like :-)

OT: My mercruiser thermostat is 140 F ... I myself find that unususual
compared to an auto thermostat. My understanding ... an auto engine is
most
efficient around 235 F (achievable because the sytem is pressurized). So
...
why the low temp for the marine (version) engine?


Because if a raw water cooled boat engine is run in salt water, then the
salt will precipitate out and plug up the engine cooling passages at about
160 degrees. So they run a 140 as standard. My carbed 351W closed cooling
ran a 160 thermostat. Do not know what the new 350 mpi runs.

Yes ... just after I posted, the light went on that my raw water cooled boat
system is not a closed (pressurized) cooling system ...


Don't forget on a closed (rad) system with antifreeze the boiling point is
substantially higher then raw water and no pressure. Also, most carb
based
cars ran 165's, wasn't until injection and pollution controls that the
higher 185's etc came in.

Good info ... thanks

OT: My mercruiser thermostat is 140 F

Because if a raw water cooled boat engine is run in salt water, then the
salt will precipitate out and plug up the engine cooling passages at about
160 degrees. So they run a 140 as standard. My carbed 351W closed
cooling
ran a 160 thermostat. Do not know what the new 350 mpi runs.

Contrary to some (and maybe good) recommendations, I ran for a bit with no
t'stat. Temperature varied upwards to 130 max depending on the rpm's,
load, etc. Given I used to run normally from 145 to 165 (various
conditions) I made an executive decision and bought a new t'stat and
installed it. The engine temperature is now varying from 145 to 170. It
is maybe 5 degrees higher than what I normally run/range (and the water is
still quite cold, too cold for swimming (for me)), but I can now pull into a
dock without the temperature going 200 (gauge limit) and having to go into
neutral to rev. it up and cool it back down. I think the problem is now
(hopefully or sort of) fixed, but I will be keeping a very close eye on it.
There was a bit of crud laying on the old t'stat when I pulled it out, so
maybe dirt was impeding the reliability of it opening, and/or maybe there is
still another problem such as the outdrive water pump getting weak.

Some great feedback and suggestions again everyone. Thank you. Should any
new news develop, I will make sure I let everyone know.

Bowgus, If you are doing the run from Boldt Castle back to Gan, make sure
you do the Riff. It is a very samll passage between the Lake o' the Isle,
going under the bridge between the US and Canadian Customs, and exiting into
the Cdn channel near Ivy Lea. Other than the one boat width passage in
some areas, the only other area you need to be careful around is the bottom
end just off Lake o the Isle. I have a 268 Searay (YesDear) and can
manouvre it through no problem, but would not take much larger of a boat
through though.

Mark (the rail & canopy hook guy)
www.ripnet.com/vtf/prod03.htm

"Bowgus" wrote in message
news
About the 140 F ... could it be because the manufacturer realizes that a
lotta boaters run their boats at WOT (= heat) ... whereas most :-) auto
drivers don't?

OT: had the boat out first time this year ... ran just fine ... an
excellent
day out. Too bad the weekend is not looking good ... we're looking forward
to trailering down to Ivy Lea for the up to Gananoque, across and down the
US side, around the castle, back to Ivy Lea loop ... and the islands just
off Gananoque ... very nice.

"Bowgus" wrote in message
...
It's not "overheat" or "underheat" ... it's "uneven heat" that (I was
told)
may cause a problem ... it's ... one part of the engine is hot and one
part
of the engine is cold(er) than it should be because of the lack of
temperature regulation provided by the thermostat. I myself will run my
engines with the thermostat installed ... you guys can do (obviously) as
you
like :-)

OT: My mercruiser thermostat is 140 F ... I myself find that unususual
compared to an auto thermostat. My understanding ... an auto engine is
most
efficient around 235 F (achievable because the sytem is pressurized). So
...
why the low temp for the marine (version) engine?

"tony thomas" wrote in message
newsz5qe.31276$x96.130@attbi_s72...
Only problem w/ running an engine w/out a thermostat is you may never
warm
the engine to proper temp and you may find the engine running rich all
the
time. This will cost you in fuel but won't hurt the engine (except for
possibly carbon buildup over a long time).

Won't hurt in terms of overheat as the max coolant is flowing all the
time.
If the engine overheats and warps something in this condition it would
really overheat w/ a thermostat installed as a fully open thermostat
adds
a
certain amount of restriction just due to the metal parts being there.

--
Tony
my boats and cars at http://t.thomas.home.mchsi.com

-
"Bowgus" wrote in message
...
A suggestion ... don't run the engine very long without a thermostat
...
even better, don't run without a thermostat at all. One of the
thermostat's
function I've been told is to ensure a relatively consistent engine
temperature preventing parts warp etc.. Having said that, I had a
thermostat
fail closed on a Toyota. I removed it and drove home from ...
interestingly
enough Johnstown near where you're at ... to Ottawa without any
apparent
problems.

I am going to try it this weekend with no thermostat and see what
happens. Stay tuned ...