l. Inboard or ANY type is vastly better than an outboard. Reason: the
outboard prop being mounted far behind the tansom may come free of the
water and have the rpm go 'exponential' when the prop is not in the
water. When pooped by a boarding wave the transom hung outboard will
flood with water which will/may 'hydro-lock' then seize and stop.

2. Stern hung rudders will 'ventilate' - sucking air down the sides of
the rudder - thus making them VERY inefficient and causing humongous
drag. Stern mounted pintel hung rudders are usually an unbalanced
design requiring huge loads to move them off center when the boat is a
'at speed'; plus, are very vulnerable to breakage if the boat slips
backwards such as when hove-to.

The choice for a 'modern' boat: inboard engine with 'under-the-boat'
rudder.


thuIn article .com,
Lee308 wrote:

These two choices seem to vary widely in sailboats between 25 and 32
ft. What are your opinions on each. This boat will be a crusier, not a
marina livaboard.
Speed of boat is not an issue.

1) Diesel inboard or over the stern gas outboard?
Outboard easy to reach and repair/replace, no worry of shaft seal
leak and less thru hulls, but small diesel's are very fuel effcient
plus large alternator.
2) Over the stern rudder or binnacle/shaft type rudder?
Once more, seems the over the stern rudder would be less
problematical and repairable even at sea. No thru hulls or gears
would seem better.

Yout thoughts would be appreciated.
Lee (looking for my cruiser)

In article .com,
says...


When I got my boat for cruising I bought a Newport 33 for the following
reasons:
Diesel engine
Wheel steering
Standing head room in the cabin
Roller furling genoa.

That's interesting. Exactly the same reasons we bought our Dawson 26 plus
it had a center cockpit. Though it had wheel steering, it also had a
transom hung rudder that could be retracted and a swing keel. An
absolutely perfect boat for a novice. You learn the easy painless way that
when the chart says there is no water there, there is in fact no water
there.

In article . com,
says...


Thanks for the responce on the engines, that question is answered.
Diesel is the way to go for long cruise's.

Diesel is the way to go just to cross the harbor. By the way, what ever
happened to diesel outboards? Didn't Yanmar make these great heavy
monsters?

Gogarty wrote in news:FbWdnc2PAfb0bwPfRVn-
:

By the way, what ever
happened to diesel outboards? Didn't Yanmar make these great heavy
monsters?



Yanmar priced them like a Lincoln Navigator, fully loaded, which meant
their demise. Evidently, most boaters aren't nearly as stupid as Yanmar
thought they were. They still sell very well in countries with so much
socialism that gas is $6/gallon, loaded up with taxes.

The Yanmar doesn't even have leather seats with lumbar supports....or
climate controlled air conditioning.

At $2/gallon, it would have to last 187 years to get a break-even point....

Sure..... when hove to in extreme conditions I find that its ususlly
better to heave-to more 'on' the main than on a jib ... so that the
boat slowly backs down and stays with its turbulence slick (caused by
slipping the keel... such turbulence in the water will cause a
brteaking wave to actually break long before it gets to the boat.

My issue with stern hung rudders is that when running off in heavy seas
is that they take a pounding from stern boarding waves. Its all in the
'geometry' of the attachment making the rudder very vulnerble to huge
generated forces simply by 'trigonometry'.


In article ,
Dave wrote:

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 01:46:45 GMT, Rich Hampel said:

are very vulnerable to breakage if the boat slips
backwards such as when hove-to

Could you explicate? I don't recall ever slipping backwards while hove to.
General a very slow forward motion.

Were you thinking of a situation where you've got large waves at right
angles to the wind direction?

So, whats your point .... and supporting data?
Care to 'articulate' .... if you're able (but I dont think you're
capable)
Get your meds changed/adjusted, you're clearly in distress.

In article , Red Cloud®
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 01:46:45 GMT, Rich Hampel wrote:

l. Inboard or ANY type is vastly better than an outboard. Reason: the
outboard prop being mounted far behind the tansom may come free of the
water and have the rpm go 'exponential' when the prop is not in the
water. When pooped by a boarding wave the transom hung outboard will
flood with water which will/may 'hydro-lock' then seize and stop.

2. Stern hung rudders will 'ventilate' - sucking air down the sides of
the rudder - thus making them VERY inefficient and causing humongous
drag. Stern mounted pintel hung rudders are usually an unbalanced
design requiring huge loads to move them off center when the boat is a
'at speed'; plus, are very vulnerable to breakage if the boat slips
backwards such as when hove-to.

The choice for a 'modern' boat: inboard engine with 'under-the-boat'
rudder.


Baloney! An outboard on a sailboat is no more of an issue than an outboard on
a
stinkpot. And what is this hyperbolic malarkey about stern mounted rudders? Do
you actually know anything about sailing besides what you learned watching
Captain Ron? I've seen plenty of very "un-modern" boats sporting the setup you
describe.

rusty redcloud

Red Cloud,
I piloted a 25' Pearson with an outboard. When coming out of the
channel into the lake, the waves would start to rock the boat fore and
aft, causing the outboard to come out of the water. Yet this was a long
shaft sailboat motor, I'd have preferred an inboard. IMHO
Paul


Red Cloud® wrote:
On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 01:46:45 GMT, Rich Hampel wrote:


l. Inboard or ANY type is vastly better than an outboard. Reason: the
outboard prop being mounted far behind the tansom may come free of the
water and have the rpm go 'exponential' when the prop is not in the
water. When pooped by a boarding wave the transom hung outboard will
flood with water which will/may 'hydro-lock' then seize and stop.

2. Stern hung rudders will 'ventilate' - sucking air down the sides of
the rudder - thus making them VERY inefficient and causing humongous
drag. Stern mounted pintel hung rudders are usually an unbalanced
design requiring huge loads to move them off center when the boat is a
'at speed'; plus, are very vulnerable to breakage if the boat slips
backwards such as when hove-to.

The choice for a 'modern' boat: inboard engine with 'under-the-boat'
rudder.



Baloney! An outboard on a sailboat is no more of an issue than an outboard on a
stinkpot. And what is this hyperbolic malarkey about stern mounted rudders? Do
you actually know anything about sailing besides what you learned watching
Captain Ron? I've seen plenty of very "un-modern" boats sporting the setup you
describe.

rusty redcloud

Red Cloud© wrote in
:

In 5-6 foot seas. It was no great cause for concern.

rusty redcloud


That'd be OK in a lake or fair day close to shore. Does it get dunked over
the powerhead in a following 12 sea with waves crashing over the stern?

The diesel doesn't.....

"Lee308" wrote in message
oups.com...
These two choices seem to vary widely in sailboats between 25 and 32
ft. What are your opinions on each. This boat will be a crusier, not a
marina livaboard.
Speed of boat is not an issue.

Not widely. Most boats 27' and up have inboards.


1) Diesel inboard or over the stern gas outboard?
Outboard easy to reach and repair/replace, no worry of shaft seal
leak and less thru hulls, but small diesel's are very fuel effcient
plus large alternator.

What's to worry about re/shaft seal?

2) Over the stern rudder or binnacle/shaft type rudder?
Once more, seems the over the stern rudder would be less
problematical and repairable even at sea. No thru hulls or gears
would seem better.

Skeg hung rudder-if you're really worried about the rudder, you should be
worried about losing the rudder more than anything. You seem overly
concerned about sinking. You know they have cruisers that are advertised as
unsinkable, may be you should consider one of those.

http://www.etapyachts.com/

John Cairns



Yout thoughts would be appreciated.
Lee (looking for my cruiser)

Thanks. The children are much older now and enjoy sailing very much. Years
later they asked me if some of the situations in which we sailed scared me
as much as it did them. (I never intentionally put them in any danger, but
sometimes a sudden squall would pop up or there would be an occasional rough
sea.) I told them that sure I was scared, but I did not have time to show
it; I was too busy thinking about the options and plans B and C should
anything go wrong. They are all married now, but we had some great sails
together when they were younger.

Tom

"FMac" wrote in message
...

"Tom R." wrote in message
...
The water would come over the transom and the
engine would start to sputter. "Putt, putt, putt, varoom." The look from
the
children and spouse would be answered by, "Don't worry, it is just
gasping
for air." My look of confidence was not shared by my brain which was
thinking "this is stupid, get an inboard."

I admire your tenacity during a somewhat difficult situation. You have a
skill shared by few. Your children will never forgot your look of
confidence and will have a grand time sailing.