These two choices seem to vary widely in sailboats between 25 and 32
ft. What are your opinions on each. This boat will be a crusier, not a
marina livaboard.
Speed of boat is not an issue.

1) Diesel inboard or over the stern gas outboard?
Outboard easy to reach and repair/replace, no worry of shaft seal
leak and less thru hulls, but small diesel's are very fuel effcient
plus large alternator.
2) Over the stern rudder or binnacle/shaft type rudder?
Once more, seems the over the stern rudder would be less
problematical and repairable even at sea. No thru hulls or gears
would seem better.

Yout thoughts would be appreciated.
Lee (looking for my cruiser)

"Lee308" writes:

1) Diesel inboard or over the stern gas outboard?
Outboard easy to reach and repair/replace, no worry of shaft seal
leak and less thru hulls, but small diesel's are very fuel efficient
plus large alternator.

I've never known an outboard that didn't fail - when you most needed
it. A single hander hanging over the stern in bad weather trying to
deal with an outboard is not a pretty picture.

Also, in my little experience with outboards on larger boats, they
become less effective in a seaway, as the prop is continually near or
above the surface of the water.

And an outboard implies storing and dealing with gasoline in loose tanks.

I single hand my Tartan 30, which has a Yanmar diesel. The fact that
I can just "push the button" any time I need power - no waiting for
fumes to clear as with a gasoline inboard - no fear it won't start as
with an outboard - makes me feel much safer always, and particularly
when alone.
--

Marc Auslander wrote:
"Lee308" writes:


1) Diesel inboard or over the stern gas outboard?
Outboard easy to reach and repair/replace, no worry of shaft seal
leak and less thru hulls, but small diesel's are very fuel efficient
plus large alternator.


I've never known an outboard that didn't fail - when you most needed
it. A single hander hanging over the stern in bad weather trying to
deal with an outboard is not a pretty picture.

Agreed.


Also, in my little experience with outboards on larger boats, they
become less effective in a seaway, as the prop is continually near or
above the surface of the water.

Agreed.


And an outboard implies storing and dealing with gasoline in loose tanks.

Definitely not true. There are many, many outboard powered boats with
normal, built in tanks. However, a lot of smaller "trailer sailors"
do have portable tanks, which is probably the best way to carry 6 or
12 gallons of gas.


I single hand my Tartan 30, which has a Yanmar diesel. The fact that
I can just "push the button" any time I need power - no waiting for
fumes to clear as with a gasoline inboard - no fear it won't start as
with an outboard - makes me feel much safer always, and particularly
when alone.

I generally agree. Until, of course, when you wrap a lobsta pot on
the prop!

Lee308 wrote:
These two choices seem to vary widely in sailboats between 25 and 32
ft. What are your opinions on each. This boat will be a crusier, not a
marina livaboard.
Speed of boat is not an issue.

1) Diesel inboard or over the stern gas outboard?
Outboard easy to reach and repair/replace, no worry of shaft seal
leak and less thru hulls, but small diesel's are very fuel effcient
plus large alternator.
2) Over the stern rudder or binnacle/shaft type rudder?
Once more, seems the over the stern rudder would be less
problematical and repairable even at sea. No thru hulls or gears
would seem better.

Yout thoughts would be appreciated.
Lee (looking for my cruiser)


If you really want to go cruising, then diesel is the preferred option.
An outboard is Ok for getting in and out of a harbour. My gas tank is
35 gals of diesel. I sure would not want that much gasoline on board if
it can be avoided.
I wheel steering and I like it because a tiller takes up a lot of
cockpit space. For novices a wheel is more intuitive ( like a car)
When I got my boat for cruising I bought a Newport 33 for the following
reasons:
Diesel engine
Wheel steering
Standing head room in the cabin
Roller furling genoa.

In article .com,
says...


When I got my boat for cruising I bought a Newport 33 for the following
reasons:
Diesel engine
Wheel steering
Standing head room in the cabin
Roller furling genoa.

That's interesting. Exactly the same reasons we bought our Dawson 26 plus
it had a center cockpit. Though it had wheel steering, it also had a
transom hung rudder that could be retracted and a swing keel. An
absolutely perfect boat for a novice. You learn the easy painless way that
when the chart says there is no water there, there is in fact no water
there.

Lee308 wrote:
These two choices seem to vary widely in sailboats between 25 and 32
ft. What are your opinions on each. This boat will be a crusier, not a
marina livaboard.

A lot depends on what you consider a cruiser. Do you mean a 3 week
cruise each summer? ICW? Island hop the Bahamas? Frequent long
distance passages? Since you don't specify, I'm guessing you haven't
yet done the first, but you're dreaming of the last.

Speed of boat is not an issue.

Of course it is. If speed is truly not an issue, the best option is
an small electric motor that will allow you to get around in tight
quarters. Otherwise, you would always sail with what wind is offered.
Cruisers got by with no or limited power until very recently.


1) Diesel inboard or over the stern gas outboard?
Outboard easy to reach and repair/replace, no worry of shaft seal
leak and less thru hulls, but small diesel's are very fuel effcient
plus large alternator.

There are very few outboard driven boats over about 28 feet.
Actually, weight is the bigger limiting factor. If you go above about
8000 pounds you need a bigger outboard, and the downside issues get
large. Fuel economy and noise are against the outboard if you're
powering a long distance, and they can be useless in some bad conditions.

One of the worst "middle of the night adventures" I've had was on a
friend's heavy 25 footer when a squall came in and changed our cozy
anchorage into a dangerous lee shore, with rocks only a few boat
lengths away. The boat was pitching so severely that the outboard
prop was coming out of the water; we had to raise sail, haul anchor,
and bear off to gain speed before we could tack away from the rocks.

My current boat, a 36 foot catamaran, is one of the few larger boats
offered with both outboards or diesels. About 2/3 are outboards, with
the speed advantages of being able to raise the props and the reduced
weight being the primary factor (other than cost). Maintenance is a
wash; its nice to be able to replace an outboard on the fly, but many
of the outboard owners have had to do that in the middle of a vacation.

We went with diesels, because we figured we would have to get a genset
if we had the outboards, and this would offset the weight issue, which
is significant in a catamaran.


2) Over the stern rudder or binnacle/shaft type rudder?
Once more, seems the over the stern rudder would be less
problematical and repairable even at sea. No thru hulls or gears
would seem better.

Are you asking tiller vs. wheel? I prefer the tiller for small boats,
a wheel for larger boats. If you're asking about the rudder hung on
the stern or a post, that depends a lot on the total design of the boat.

"Are you asking tiller vs. wheel? I prefer the tiller for small boats,
a wheel for larger boats. If you're asking about the rudder hung on
the stern or a post, that depends a lot on the total design of the
boat"

Some sailboats have a shaft coming out of the deck to attach a tiller.
These still have a shaft running down through the deck to the rudder.

A rudder "hung on the stern" is what I'm comparing to. This seems less
of a maintenance issue at sea. By that, I mean one less thru-hull
fitting to deal with.

Thanks for the responce on the engines, that question is answered.
Diesel is the way to go for long cruise's.

Lee308 wrote:
....



A rudder "hung on the stern" is what I'm comparing to. This seems less
of a maintenance issue at sea. By that, I mean one less thru-hull
fitting to deal with.

As I mentioned, having a transom hung rudder is a really a function of
other design issues. For instance, a full length keel is more
conducive to a transom hung rudder. Most designers (and buyers) will
consider the keel design more significant than the rudder design, and
that's really what you should be considering. Perhaps a more
interesting rudder question you might ask is a balanced rudder vs, a
skeg hung rudder.

Actually, to put both of your questions in perspective, you should go
to a large marina and walk the docks to see what's out there.
Remember that most cruisers don't have the luxury to buying the
ultimate blue water cruiser, they simply take off in whatever they
have, or can afford. In cruising spots, you generally see the boats
that were sold 20 years ago as "family cruisers" or "racer/cruisers."

Lee308 wrote:
A rudder "hung on the stern" is what I'm comparing to. This seems less
of a maintenance issue at sea. By that, I mean one less thru-hull
fitting to deal with.


You should do some careful looking at parts of boats. Rudder shafts
don't have 'thru-hulls' although they do have bearings and occasionally
(rarely) packing glands. It's not really much of a maintenance issue at
all, much less one "at sea."


Jeff wrote:
As I mentioned, having a transom hung rudder is a really a function of
other design issues.

Yes very much so.

... For instance, a full length keel is more conducive
to a transom hung rudder.

I disagree here, there are a lot of fin keelers with transom rudders.
Many have pretty substantial skegs too.

... Most designers (and buyers) will consider the
keel design more significant than the rudder design, and that's really
what you should be considering. Perhaps a more interesting rudder
question you might ask is a balanced rudder vs, a skeg hung rudder.


Or partially balanced with skeg.
The issue I see with rudders is not one of esoteric design philosophy
(unless you're designing & building your boat), but one of practical
issues. How strong is it? Is it likely to catch trailing lines? Can it
be damaged by grounding?


Actually, to put both of your questions in perspective, you should go to
a large marina and walk the docks to see what's out there. Remember that
most cruisers don't have the luxury to buying the ultimate blue water
cruiser, they simply take off in whatever they have, or can afford. In
cruising spots, you generally see the boats that were sold 20 years ago
as "family cruisers" or "racer/cruisers."


Agreed again. The best boat for cruising is the one that takes you
there. That said, there are some really poor choices out there... not
necessarily the cheapest either...

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

In article . com,
says...


Thanks for the responce on the engines, that question is answered.
Diesel is the way to go for long cruise's.

Diesel is the way to go just to cross the harbor. By the way, what ever
happened to diesel outboards? Didn't Yanmar make these great heavy
monsters?