"Capt. Neal®" wrote in message
...

"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote in message
...
The same thing was tried at North Lake Worth a few years
back. Turns out that enforcing such a law is generally in violation
of maritime law. Boat US and a bunch of boater/lawyers pitched
in a got it shot down. I suspect that this situation will be resolved
in much the same manner.

You are correct. In order for a violation to be valid there has to be
proof that a vessel was there *continuously* for 72 or more hours.
All one needs do is claim to have gone sailing and moved (even it if is
only a boatlength or two) and re-anchored and have a couple witnesses
testify to it. Unless the authorities can prove that a vessel did not move
(running a video tape 24/3) then you're not guilty. Remember, one is
innocent until proven guilty and the proving of guilt is very difficult,
if not impossible.

That's what shot down the anchoring ordinances in West Palm.

That's not how it was explained to me. The deal in West Palm was
that the community did not own the water and had no jurisdiction
on its use, period. Nothing to do with being not able to reliable enforce
any 72 hour limit.

CN

Yup, that's a perfect anchorage to wait out bad weather. A mile and a
half offshore, extending to the three mile line. The shallow end is
only about 40 feet deep. The Gulf Stream usually stays at least 10
miles away, so there shouldn't be much chop there at all. (The is
actually the closest approach of the Gulf Stream to the coast.)

And since when does the ocean become "city property"?


Jack Painter wrote:
"Dave" wrote

dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom said:


Turns out that enforcing such a law is generally in violation
of maritime law.

And the sea lawyer puts on his wig and argues to the court.


Roger that. City property is just what it says it is, city property. What
isn't city property in Miami Beach, FL, is already regulated by federal
authority.

Jack

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 33, Volume 1]
[Revised as of July 1, 2002]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 33CFR110.188]

[Page 396-397]

TITLE 33--NAVIGATION AND NAVIGABLE WATERS

CHAPTER I--COAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

PART 110--ANCHORAGE REGULATIONS--Table of Contents

Subpart B--Anchorage Grounds

Sec. 110.188 Atlantic Ocean off Miami and Miami Beach, Fla.

(a) The anchorage grounds. The area to the eastward of a line
bearing 12 deg. (N. 12 deg. E.) through a point X, which is 1\1/2\
nautical miles due east of the intersection of the Miami Beach shore
line with the north jetty; to the northward of a line bearing 102 deg.
(S. 78 deg. E.) and intersecting the 12 deg. line at a point A, one-half
nautical mile north of the said point X; and to the southward of a line
bearing 102 deg. (S. 78 deg. E.) and intersecting the 12 deg. line at a
point B, 2\1/2\ nautical miles north of the said point X. The northern
and southern extremities of the 12 deg. line are marked by spar buoys.
The entire anchorage area lies north of the entrance channel to Miami
Harbor.
(b) The rules and regulations. (1) Except in cases of great
emergency, no vessel shall be anchored in the Atlantic Ocean in the
vicinity of the entrances to the approach channels leading to the cities
of Miami Beach and Miami, Fla., outside of the anchorage area hereby
defined and established--that is, they shall not anchor shoreward of the
line first named nor southward of the second nor northward of the third
line--but may anchor as far to the eastward as may be desired.
(2) Any vessel anchoring under circumstances of great emergency
outside of the anchorage area shall be shifted to new berths within the
area immediately after the emergency ceases.
(3) All vessels shall lie at anchor with as short a cable as
conditions will permit.
(4) A vessel upon being notified to move into the anchorage limits
or to shift its position on the anchorage ground must get under way at
once or signal for a tug, and must change position as directed with
reasonable promptness.
(5) Whenever the maritime or commercial interests of the United
States so require, the Captain of the Port, U.S. Coast Guard, Miami,
Fla., is hereby empowered to shift the position of any vessel anchored
on the anchorage ground or outside thereof, or of any vessel moored or
anchored so as to impede or obstruct vessel movements or obstruct or
interfere with range lights.
(6) Vessels carrying explosives shall be anchored only under a
written permit issued by the Captain of the Port and at such point as he
may direct.
(7) Vessels carrying explosives shall be at all times in charge of a
competent person, and must display by day a red flag, of not less than
16 square feet, at the masthead, or not less than 10 feet above the
upper deck if the vessel has no mast; at night a red light shall be
displayed in the positions specified for the red flag.
(8) Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as relieving the
owner or person in charge of any vessel from the penalties of the law
for obstructing navigation, or for obstructing or interfering with range
lights, or for not complying with the navigation laws in regard to
lights, fog signals, or other aids to navigation, or for otherwise
violating law.
(9) All vessels desiring to use the Anchorage must notify the Coast
Guard Captain of the Port, via the Biscayne Bay Pilots on VHF-FM Channel
12 or 16.
(10) All vessels anchored within the anchorage area shall maintain a
24-hour bridge watch by an English speaking licensed deck officer
monitoring

[[Page 397]]

VHF-FM Channel 16. This individual shall perform frequent checks of the
vessel's position to ensure the vessel is not dragging anchor.
(11) Vessels experiencing casualties such as a main propulsion, main
steering or anchoring equipment malfunction or which are planning to
perform main propulsion engine repairs or maintenance, shall immediately
notify the Coast Guard Captain of the Port via the Coast Guard Group
Miami on VHF-FM Channel 16.
(12) The Coast Guard Captain of the Port may close the anchorage
area and direct vessels to depart the anchorage during periods of
adverse weather or at other times as deemed necessary in the interest of
port safety.

[CGFR 67-46, 32 FR 17728, Dec. 12, 1967, as amended by CGD07-99-002, 64
FR 22554, Apr. 27, 1999]

Jack,
That anchorage is off shore and is where the ships anchor while waiting
to get in to the Miami port. It is NOT a good place for a sailboat
cruiser to anchor waiting for a weather window to cross the stream to
the Bahamas. They anchor on the bay side of Miami Beach. Also, why to
you refer to the cruising community as "boat-bums"? Most of us spend a
lot of time and time on our boats in order to sail to enjoyable
destinations.
krj

Jack Painter wrote:

"Dave" wrote

dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom said:


Turns out that enforcing such a law is generally in violation
of maritime law.

And the sea lawyer puts on his wig and argues to the court.


Roger that. City property is just what it says it is, city property. What
isn't city property in Miami Beach, FL, is already regulated by federal
authority.

Jack

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 33, Volume 1]
[Revised as of July 1, 2002]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 33CFR110.188]

[Page 396-397]

TITLE 33--NAVIGATION AND NAVIGABLE WATERS

CHAPTER I--COAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

PART 110--ANCHORAGE REGULATIONS--Table of Contents

Subpart B--Anchorage Grounds

Sec. 110.188 Atlantic Ocean off Miami and Miami Beach, Fla.

(a) The anchorage grounds. The area to the eastward of a line
bearing 12 deg. (N. 12 deg. E.) through a point X, which is 1\1/2\
nautical miles due east of the intersection of the Miami Beach shore
line with the north jetty; to the northward of a line bearing 102 deg.
(S. 78 deg. E.) and intersecting the 12 deg. line at a point A, one-half
nautical mile north of the said point X; and to the southward of a line
bearing 102 deg. (S. 78 deg. E.) and intersecting the 12 deg. line at a
point B, 2\1/2\ nautical miles north of the said point X. The northern
and southern extremities of the 12 deg. line are marked by spar buoys.
The entire anchorage area lies north of the entrance channel to Miami
Harbor.
(b) The rules and regulations. (1) Except in cases of great
emergency, no vessel shall be anchored in the Atlantic Ocean in the
vicinity of the entrances to the approach channels leading to the cities
of Miami Beach and Miami, Fla., outside of the anchorage area hereby
defined and established--that is, they shall not anchor shoreward of the
line first named nor southward of the second nor northward of the third
line--but may anchor as far to the eastward as may be desired.
(2) Any vessel anchoring under circumstances of great emergency
outside of the anchorage area shall be shifted to new berths within the
area immediately after the emergency ceases.
(3) All vessels shall lie at anchor with as short a cable as
conditions will permit.
(4) A vessel upon being notified to move into the anchorage limits
or to shift its position on the anchorage ground must get under way at
once or signal for a tug, and must change position as directed with
reasonable promptness.
(5) Whenever the maritime or commercial interests of the United
States so require, the Captain of the Port, U.S. Coast Guard, Miami,
Fla., is hereby empowered to shift the position of any vessel anchored
on the anchorage ground or outside thereof, or of any vessel moored or
anchored so as to impede or obstruct vessel movements or obstruct or
interfere with range lights.
(6) Vessels carrying explosives shall be anchored only under a
written permit issued by the Captain of the Port and at such point as he
may direct.
(7) Vessels carrying explosives shall be at all times in charge of a
competent person, and must display by day a red flag, of not less than
16 square feet, at the masthead, or not less than 10 feet above the
upper deck if the vessel has no mast; at night a red light shall be
displayed in the positions specified for the red flag.
(8) Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as relieving the
owner or person in charge of any vessel from the penalties of the law
for obstructing navigation, or for obstructing or interfering with range
lights, or for not complying with the navigation laws in regard to
lights, fog signals, or other aids to navigation, or for otherwise
violating law.
(9) All vessels desiring to use the Anchorage must notify the Coast
Guard Captain of the Port, via the Biscayne Bay Pilots on VHF-FM Channel
12 or 16.
(10) All vessels anchored within the anchorage area shall maintain a
24-hour bridge watch by an English speaking licensed deck officer
monitoring

[[Page 397]]

VHF-FM Channel 16. This individual shall perform frequent checks of the
vessel's position to ensure the vessel is not dragging anchor.
(11) Vessels experiencing casualties such as a main propulsion, main
steering or anchoring equipment malfunction or which are planning to
perform main propulsion engine repairs or maintenance, shall immediately
notify the Coast Guard Captain of the Port via the Coast Guard Group
Miami on VHF-FM Channel 16.
(12) The Coast Guard Captain of the Port may close the anchorage
area and direct vessels to depart the anchorage during periods of
adverse weather or at other times as deemed necessary in the interest of
port safety.

[CGFR 67-46, 32 FR 17728, Dec. 12, 1967, as amended by CGD07-99-002, 64
FR 22554, Apr. 27, 1999]

"jrj", calm down, the reference was just to show that anchorages can be and
are regulated, if not by the federal government as in the case cited, then
by the states or cities for any particular harbor.

As to referring to the cruising community being boat bums, you said that,
not I. I simply offered that it was boat-bums (ie: liveaboards looking for a
free lunch) who want to stay in the city limits of Miami Beach at anchor for
more than three days. Those are not cruisers, or not the kind that any of us
want in our backyard anyway. Have you ever been To Miami Beach? I'm only
surprised this ordinance wasn't passed a long time ago. It probably wouldn't
have happened if sea lawyers of the trailer trash at sea variety hadn't made
an issue of gentle enforcement in the first place. There you have boaters
spoiling the quality of life for other boaters, not the fault of property
owners who have to put up with them.

Cheers,

Jack

"krj" wrote
Jack,
That anchorage is off shore and is where the ships anchor while waiting
to get in to the Miami port. It is NOT a good place for a sailboat
cruiser to anchor waiting for a weather window to cross the stream to
the Bahamas. They anchor on the bay side of Miami Beach. Also, why to
you refer to the cruising community as "boat-bums"? Most of us spend a
lot of time and time on our boats in order to sail to enjoyable
destinations.
krj

Jack Painter wrote:

"Dave" wrote

dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom said:


Turns out that enforcing such a law is generally in violation
of maritime law.

And the sea lawyer puts on his wig and argues to the court.


Roger that. City property is just what it says it is, city property.
What
isn't city property in Miami Beach, FL, is already regulated by federal
authority.

Jack

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 33, Volume 1]
[Revised as of July 1, 2002]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 33CFR110.188]

[Page 396-397]

TITLE 33--NAVIGATION AND NAVIGABLE WATERS

CHAPTER I--COAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

PART 110--ANCHORAGE REGULATIONS--Table of Contents

Subpart B--Anchorage Grounds

Sec. 110.188 Atlantic Ocean off Miami and Miami Beach, Fla.

(a) The anchorage grounds. The area to the eastward of a line
bearing 12 deg. (N. 12 deg. E.) through a point X, which is 1\1/2\
nautical miles due east of the intersection of the Miami Beach shore
line with the north jetty; to the northward of a line bearing 102 deg.
(S. 78 deg. E.) and intersecting the 12 deg. line at a point A, one-half
nautical mile north of the said point X; and to the southward of a line
bearing 102 deg. (S. 78 deg. E.) and intersecting the 12 deg. line at a
point B, 2\1/2\ nautical miles north of the said point X. The northern
and southern extremities of the 12 deg. line are marked by spar buoys.
The entire anchorage area lies north of the entrance channel to Miami
Harbor.
(b) The rules and regulations. (1) Except in cases of great
emergency, no vessel shall be anchored in the Atlantic Ocean in the
vicinity of the entrances to the approach channels leading to the cities
of Miami Beach and Miami, Fla., outside of the anchorage area hereby
defined and established--that is, they shall not anchor shoreward of the
line first named nor southward of the second nor northward of the third
line--but may anchor as far to the eastward as may be desired.
(2) Any vessel anchoring under circumstances of great emergency
outside of the anchorage area shall be shifted to new berths within the
area immediately after the emergency ceases.
(3) All vessels shall lie at anchor with as short a cable as
conditions will permit.
(4) A vessel upon being notified to move into the anchorage limits
or to shift its position on the anchorage ground must get under way at
once or signal for a tug, and must change position as directed with
reasonable promptness.
(5) Whenever the maritime or commercial interests of the United
States so require, the Captain of the Port, U.S. Coast Guard, Miami,
Fla., is hereby empowered to shift the position of any vessel anchored
on the anchorage ground or outside thereof, or of any vessel moored or
anchored so as to impede or obstruct vessel movements or obstruct or
interfere with range lights.
(6) Vessels carrying explosives shall be anchored only under a
written permit issued by the Captain of the Port and at such point as he
may direct.
(7) Vessels carrying explosives shall be at all times in charge of a
competent person, and must display by day a red flag, of not less than
16 square feet, at the masthead, or not less than 10 feet above the
upper deck if the vessel has no mast; at night a red light shall be
displayed in the positions specified for the red flag.
(8) Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as relieving the
owner or person in charge of any vessel from the penalties of the law
for obstructing navigation, or for obstructing or interfering with range
lights, or for not complying with the navigation laws in regard to
lights, fog signals, or other aids to navigation, or for otherwise
violating law.
(9) All vessels desiring to use the Anchorage must notify the Coast
Guard Captain of the Port, via the Biscayne Bay Pilots on VHF-FM Channel
12 or 16.
(10) All vessels anchored within the anchorage area shall maintain a
24-hour bridge watch by an English speaking licensed deck officer
monitoring

[[Page 397]]

VHF-FM Channel 16. This individual shall perform frequent checks of the
vessel's position to ensure the vessel is not dragging anchor.
(11) Vessels experiencing casualties such as a main propulsion, main
steering or anchoring equipment malfunction or which are planning to
perform main propulsion engine repairs or maintenance, shall immediately
notify the Coast Guard Captain of the Port via the Coast Guard Group
Miami on VHF-FM Channel 16.
(12) The Coast Guard Captain of the Port may close the anchorage
area and direct vessels to depart the anchorage during periods of
adverse weather or at other times as deemed necessary in the interest of
port safety.

[CGFR 67-46, 32 FR 17728, Dec. 12, 1967, as amended by CGD07-99-002, 64
FR 22554, Apr. 27, 1999]

who want to stay in the city limits of Miami Beach at anchor for
more than three days. Those are not cruisers, or not the kind that any of us
want in our backyard anyway.

I don't know anything about the Miami Beach situation but I think you can
still be considered to be a cruiser even if you want to stay in one place
for more than 3 days.


"Jack Painter" wrote in message
news:0Oece.1568$ao.119@lakeread01...
"jrj", calm down, the reference was just to show that anchorages can be
and
are regulated, if not by the federal government as in the case cited, then
by the states or cities for any particular harbor.

As to referring to the cruising community being boat bums, you said that,
not I. I simply offered that it was boat-bums (ie: liveaboards looking for
a
free lunch) who want to stay in the city limits of Miami Beach at anchor
for
more than three days. Those are not cruisers, or not the kind that any of
us
want in our backyard anyway. Have you ever been To Miami Beach? I'm only
surprised this ordinance wasn't passed a long time ago. It probably
wouldn't
have happened if sea lawyers of the trailer trash at sea variety hadn't
made
an issue of gentle enforcement in the first place. There you have boaters
spoiling the quality of life for other boaters, not the fault of property
owners who have to put up with them.

Cheers,

Jack

"krj" wrote
Jack,
That anchorage is off shore and is where the ships anchor while waiting
to get in to the Miami port. It is NOT a good place for a sailboat
cruiser to anchor waiting for a weather window to cross the stream to
the Bahamas. They anchor on the bay side of Miami Beach. Also, why to
you refer to the cruising community as "boat-bums"? Most of us spend a
lot of time and time on our boats in order to sail to enjoyable
destinations.
krj

Jack Painter wrote:

"Dave" wrote

dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom said:


Turns out that enforcing such a law is generally in violation
of maritime law.

And the sea lawyer puts on his wig and argues to the court.


Roger that. City property is just what it says it is, city property.
What
isn't city property in Miami Beach, FL, is already regulated by federal
authority.

Jack

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 33, Volume 1]
[Revised as of July 1, 2002]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 33CFR110.188]

[Page 396-397]

TITLE 33--NAVIGATION AND NAVIGABLE WATERS

CHAPTER I--COAST GUARD, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

PART 110--ANCHORAGE REGULATIONS--Table of Contents

Subpart B--Anchorage Grounds

Sec. 110.188 Atlantic Ocean off Miami and Miami Beach, Fla.

(a) The anchorage grounds. The area to the eastward of a line
bearing 12 deg. (N. 12 deg. E.) through a point X, which is 1\1/2\
nautical miles due east of the intersection of the Miami Beach shore
line with the north jetty; to the northward of a line bearing 102 deg.
(S. 78 deg. E.) and intersecting the 12 deg. line at a point A,
one-half
nautical mile north of the said point X; and to the southward of a line
bearing 102 deg. (S. 78 deg. E.) and intersecting the 12 deg. line at a
point B, 2\1/2\ nautical miles north of the said point X. The northern
and southern extremities of the 12 deg. line are marked by spar buoys.
The entire anchorage area lies north of the entrance channel to Miami
Harbor.
(b) The rules and regulations. (1) Except in cases of great
emergency, no vessel shall be anchored in the Atlantic Ocean in the
vicinity of the entrances to the approach channels leading to the
cities
of Miami Beach and Miami, Fla., outside of the anchorage area hereby
defined and established--that is, they shall not anchor shoreward of
the
line first named nor southward of the second nor northward of the third
line--but may anchor as far to the eastward as may be desired.
(2) Any vessel anchoring under circumstances of great emergency
outside of the anchorage area shall be shifted to new berths within the
area immediately after the emergency ceases.
(3) All vessels shall lie at anchor with as short a cable as
conditions will permit.
(4) A vessel upon being notified to move into the anchorage limits
or to shift its position on the anchorage ground must get under way at
once or signal for a tug, and must change position as directed with
reasonable promptness.
(5) Whenever the maritime or commercial interests of the United
States so require, the Captain of the Port, U.S. Coast Guard, Miami,
Fla., is hereby empowered to shift the position of any vessel anchored
on the anchorage ground or outside thereof, or of any vessel moored or
anchored so as to impede or obstruct vessel movements or obstruct or
interfere with range lights.
(6) Vessels carrying explosives shall be anchored only under a
written permit issued by the Captain of the Port and at such point as
he
may direct.
(7) Vessels carrying explosives shall be at all times in charge of
a
competent person, and must display by day a red flag, of not less than
16 square feet, at the masthead, or not less than 10 feet above the
upper deck if the vessel has no mast; at night a red light shall be
displayed in the positions specified for the red flag.
(8) Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as relieving the
owner or person in charge of any vessel from the penalties of the law
for obstructing navigation, or for obstructing or interfering with
range
lights, or for not complying with the navigation laws in regard to
lights, fog signals, or other aids to navigation, or for otherwise
violating law.
(9) All vessels desiring to use the Anchorage must notify the Coast
Guard Captain of the Port, via the Biscayne Bay Pilots on VHF-FM
Channel
12 or 16.
(10) All vessels anchored within the anchorage area shall maintain
a
24-hour bridge watch by an English speaking licensed deck officer
monitoring

[[Page 397]]

VHF-FM Channel 16. This individual shall perform frequent checks of the
vessel's position to ensure the vessel is not dragging anchor.
(11) Vessels experiencing casualties such as a main propulsion,
main
steering or anchoring equipment malfunction or which are planning to
perform main propulsion engine repairs or maintenance, shall
immediately
notify the Coast Guard Captain of the Port via the Coast Guard Group
Miami on VHF-FM Channel 16.
(12) The Coast Guard Captain of the Port may close the anchorage
area and direct vessels to depart the anchorage during periods of
adverse weather or at other times as deemed necessary in the interest
of
port safety.

[CGFR 67-46, 32 FR 17728, Dec. 12, 1967, as amended by CGD07-99-002, 64
FR 22554, Apr. 27, 1999]