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rhys wrote:
A Westsail 32 or a Contessa, on the other hand, will just hit the dock and stop. G A Westsail will keep going, and take the dock with it! Matt O. |
There is a Freedom board on Yahoo. Try the Freedom 36 (my personal
favorite) Fast, Roomy and a ball to singlehand. On 26 Apr 2005 15:41:00 -0700, "Frank" wrote: wrote: (Original poster). The Freedom has been on and off of my list. I have read the pros and cons. They have great interiors and seem to have as high or higher quality equipment than the Bristols and Sabres. I, however, do worry about buying an older boat with a carbon fiber mast. Admittedly, I only know 'carbon fiber' as used on time trial bikes (my carbon fiber disc wheels crack and detach from other materials that it is adhered to - and it is $$$). The same may not apply to masts. On the other hand, any cyclist will tell you That you cannot beat carbon fiber for stability, weight and power transfer, so I imagine these same features extend to sailing. I have looked at a Freedom 32. I have yet to find the Freedom owners group that I have heard about. The Sailnet group is dead. When Freedom itself supported a board, it was great to go there. I, too, know of no current Freedom ng. IMHO, their construction/equipment/etc. is superior to most. TPI builds great boats. As for carbonfiber, there have been a coupla stories about mast cracks on the earliest versions; but during the period of the boats we're talking about (the later 32s and the 30), they're pretty damned bulletproof. If you've only read about 'em and never sailed one, do yourself a favor and catch a ride on one. After you've sailed one singlehanded, including flying a chute, you'll scoff when people talk about how easy other boats are to sail solo. There's no contest. My opinion and worth every penny you paid for it! Frank |
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On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 00:59:11 -0400, "Matt O'Toole"
wrote: I'm also very partial to the Cal 27 II and III, which is a great sailor, and also cheap. Same with the 34 -- which is larger but less expensive than some of the boats mentioned. Some friends circumnavigated in one, so I trust it. If you can find a Cal 2-30 they're a gem of a sailor and more modern looking too. Cals aren't as fancy as some other boats, but they're well built, good sailors. We had several good experiences with Cal 2-30s chartered from private owners. I second the suggestion. It is much narrower than modern boats but does indeed look modern in profile. The Cal has a decent sized mainsail, unlike many boats built a little later, and it can be sailed without a headsail if desired. Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC J36 Gjo/a "Curse thee, thou quadrant. No longer will I guide my earthly way by thee." Capt. Ahab |
Thanks for the tip. I'll check out Yahoo!. I agree completely about the
F36, except I really like having a sugarscoop, so I'd amend that slightly to a F38. Frank |
On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 10:26:14 -0300, Terry Spragg
wrote: The best way to sail "fast" is to leave the phone at home, rip out the knotmeter, and pull all the ropes a little too tight. Fast is a relative term. Some sail to be competetive, and some sail to get away from it all. Just ask yourself if the seagulls worry about going fast enough. OK, please be aware that I understand that sailing is the worst form of transport...excepting all the others. "Fast" in this context means getting the best from the boat, not letting the sails flog, maintaining a tuned rig, cleaning the bottom and neither stalling the helm nor rounding up frequently. And completing tacks effectively. That's "fast" by virtue of no being slow. I can sail an Alberg 30 "fast" by that measure, although it's not at this stage in GRP boat history, a particularly fast boat. At least, that's not why I sail. You must please youreslf. I do. Perhaps I should have used the term "sailing to the potential of my boat and my crew". R. |
On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 01:03:31 -0400, "Matt O'Toole"
wrote: rhys wrote: A Westsail 32 or a Contessa, on the other hand, will just hit the dock and stop. G A Westsail will keep going, and take the dock with it! Matt O. Fair enough! R. |
In article . com,
wrote: A number of months ago I began my search for a sailboat. I am an upper Chesapeake sailor who, a few years down the road, will do some coastal cruising. I am looking for a boat that I can sail solo (I want to sail solo - if I wanted to hook-up with crew, I would have taken up golf), but that can also confortably accomodate three adults for a weekend cruise. But the principal criteria is its ease/security in solo sailing. Having read the other 48 messages, I think you're on the right path. As an example of the type of boat I now consider ideal for the area and type of sailing you're describing, see our lovely owner, Xan-a-Deux, below. (We've sailed the area for about 20 years.) Though my wife is almost always along, I usually single-hand. Xan's easily capable of taking a couple down to at least the Bahamas comfortably. (Longest cruise to date is 900 nm in 3+ weeks to Beaufort, NC and back. Our Bahamas trip is scheduled for the next time I'm "between jobs".) Oh, and last year was bad for us: only 60 days on the water, we usually get 70-80. Pat wasn't a sailor when she met me. I just made it fun for her to be along. The things I like about Xan are the enormous accommodations and stowage, simplicity, toughness, and nice turn of speed -- in that order. Your priorities may differ. As others have mentioned, some great old boats in that size range are going for songs. One we almost got was a Newport 27 Mk II (though I've since heard they were a bit lightly built.) 4' draft is handy for gunkholing, 5' a bit of a PITA for a few of our favorite anchorages. What I suggest is to walk the docks and yards, crawl in the boats and try them on for size, going through the motions of day-to-day activities. [Personally, I would take the wife along to get her opinion if you can. Otherwise, keep her in mind, as having her onboard can enhance the experience enormously.] High on our list was a comfortable dedicated berth (dropping the table gets old quickly), so the first thing we did was crawl in and "sleep". That eliminated most boats, surprisingly. Last on our list was the undercarriage, even though I'm a go-fast kind of guy. (we did luck out, though) Good sails can make up the difference. I single-hand our cruising chute -- with a little help from the autopilot and a stuffer. We sail when "faster" boats are motoring. Every boat has handling "quirks" that have to be overcome, so I'm not sure that fin or full keel is really that significant, though it's easier to reduce sail that you have than add sail area you don't. Expand your search into the various yards on the Eastern Shore, as those boats are often more honestly priced, though not as clean. [Cleaning is such a minor item...] And take your time. If you really need to sail, rent for a bit. -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
(initiator of thread) Again, thanks for your suggestions. I confess
that boat buying is an obsessive's dream-come-true. I fear that I've ruined our printer printing all of the listings. Some of the boats that I have been keeping my eye on are selling and I wish I was in a position to act now, but I want to pay cash,so I have to wait until late Summer/early Fall so as to avoid the lenders; perhaps necessarily so because it is my understanding that lenders are reluctant to provide loans for old boats. A Bristol 31.1 that I looked at and one that looked like a good sweat equity boat has sold and another broker called me a week ago to tell me that an offer is being made on a nicely restored Allied Seabreeze that I looked at (not sure if this was a ploy since I have yet to see a 'sale pending' note yet). Should I use a buyer-broker? I can't see why a buyer-broker would be willing to devote much attention to me, since if I buy a boat in the 25-45K range, their cut would be relatively small. I have not committed to a broker yet and, frankly, it seems like it is much less of a hassle to see a boat on my own, telling the seller's broker that I have nobody representing me (more $$$ in their eyes, which is OK - we all have to make money somehow). The boats are a hassle to get access to because they are spread out between Annapolis and Oiental, NC. I do not want to arrange all of these visits through a buyer-broker. It would be a hassle for me and certainly for my broker. Do I correctly understand how this business works? I met a guy at Bristol Yacht, Annapolis, that I like - recommended by someone on this forum, but he represents only one of the boats that I am interested in. Did you use a buyer-broker? If so, did they have to coordinate the visit with the seller-broker or be there physically when you inspected the boat? When I asked the broker mentioned above this question I got the sense that the the seller-broker, if he or she ended up doing the leg work (take me to the boat, etc.), would resent it if the buyer-broker was not present. Again, the question is, what is the accepted protocol? Of course my next question is, if I act on my own, is making an offer at less than 80% of the asking price a reasonable approach, assuming that I know what the NADA/BUC valuation is and I know the asking prices of comparable boats of the same model? I am pricing boats based on the assumption that I may get at least a 20% reduction off the asking price. For example, if the asking price of a Bristol 35.5 is 60k, would it be reasonable to assume that the boat may go for 45k. I realize that there are many variables that influence the asking price and what the seller may sell at. This is a disadvantage of going it alone. I may not know what a broker knows; what the boats have sold for (though my understanding is that the BUC value is based on selling prices). Let me also pose another question/issue. Florida boats are going for much less. From this forum I have learned that there are many reasons for this; greater wear and tear and lots of supply. But is there not also a glut right now because of sky-rocketing insurance rates due to recent hurricane activity? Its another incentive for Florida boat owners to get the hell out of boating? Texas/LA boats also go for a lot less. I asume that it is still a buyer's market. Unlike the late 90's, there are not a lot of people willing to undertake an expensive discretionary purchase. Lots of the reviews and recommended purchase prices reported in Practical Sailor and Good Old Boats are from the late 90's when used sailboat prices actually rose. We are now in different times. Lots of questions and perhaps naive observatons, but this has been a productive discussion. Again, many thanks, Brian, Havre de Grace |
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Yes, I like the Allied 35 & 36, especially when in restored condition.
But as a relatively novice sailor and as a first-time boat buyer (have only been sailing club boats), I worry that my heart will over-take my head. Alternatively stated, in the form of a question, though the shallow full keel draft (the 35 has a bronze centerboard) is ideal for the Chesapeake, the boat's displacement and wetness are not ideal for the doldrums of summer. But I am drawn to these boats, as I am the HR 35 and both the cutaway keel and keel-fin Bristols. I am also drawn by their price. I do not care too much about speed (I compete in my other sports), but I also want a boat that I can daysail by myself without a whole lot of hassle (I've got the muscle, at least for another ten years, hopefully). Its here that I worry that these boats, say relative to a Catalina 30 or Sabre 28, will be less than optimal. Any opinions? |
Ok, I'll throw in my $.02. YMMV.
Aesthetics is aesthetics and performance is performance. Sometimes they're congruent, sometimes they intersect, sometimes they have nothing in common. Me, I'm too old and life is too short to sail full-keel boats in light air. I no longer have any desire to sail on any boat with a D/L ratio over 275 under most circumstances and I wouldn't wanna own anything with D/L ratio over 250. The closer to 200, the better. Yes, I mean a cruising boat, not a racer. Of course, that's a generalization and there'll always be exceptional cases; D/L ratio is only one of many factors to consider. I'd never accuse Catalina of being pretty or of being a quality boat. BUT... if I were you, looking to singlehand in (often) light air, I'd buy the Catalina in a heartbeat over the turtles you find aesthetically pleasing. Walk the docks if you need an aesthitic fix and admire other people's beautiful (slow) boats. For your own pleasure, sail something that'll actually *sail* in your local conditions. Frank |
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