You are probably right, that group makes few mistakes.

The anchors are huge, but their dinghy is a good one, with a substantial
outboard. The dinghy was still in the davits until the last day on the
beach.

What do you do?


otnmbrd wrote:
Jim wrote:



The people who built those little ships really did an amazing job.
Took quite a pounding. Every morning I expected the worst.

And Jim Gladson deserved a lot of credit for his management style,
from what I saw.

I guess we all can learn from this to have a plan for such an emergency.

I still wonder why those anchors were still in their chocks.


How much do they weigh? What is the weight of the chain?
What would be the requirements for the equipment to haul the anchors and
chain to an area that could do any good? What equipment was available to
do so? What amount of pull could the Irving Johnson apply to that gear,
once it was set?

otn

In article . net,
says...


You are probably right, that group makes few mistakes.

The anchors are huge, but their dinghy is a good one, with a substantial
outboard. The dinghy was still in the davits until the last day on the
beach.

What do you do?

I would defer to the people on the scene. It is well to remember, as Irving
Johnson himself points out in "Rounding Cape Horn," that seas are generally
much bigger and more boisterous than they appear to be in photographs or
movies.

Jim wrote:
You are probably right, that group makes few mistakes.

The anchors are huge, but their dinghy is a good one, with a substantial
outboard. The dinghy was still in the davits until the last day on the
beach.

What do you do?

The problem with running out the anchors in this particular case,
immediately after the grounding, was SAFELY getting to them and working
them with a small boat in the given sea conditions and considering all
else that is going on regarding passenger and crew safety with the close
proximity of the breakwater.
There will be much "Monday Morning Quaterbacking" about this. In time
some viable options may/will arise, but the most important
considerations are that passengers, crew and vessel are all saved.

otn

In article . net,
otnmbrd wrote:

The problem with running out the anchors in this particular case,
immediately after the grounding, was SAFELY getting to them and working
them with a small boat in the given sea conditions and considering all
else that is going on regarding passenger and crew safety with the close
proximity of the breakwater.
There will be much "Monday Morning Quaterbacking" about this. In time
some viable options may/will arise, but the most important
considerations are that passengers, crew and vessel are all saved.

otn

I think that it will be very interesting to see what the Marine Safety
Officer will conclude from the investigation of this grounding. I
suspect that the Master is going to have to hire a pile of GOOD Sea
Lawyers, just to keep his license from being suspended, or revoked.
Looks to me like a case of very Poor Seamanship, and navigation.
For a Small Passenger Ship to get itself in such a situation, shows
how much there is a need for better testing for a Masters License.


Me

In article ,
says...

I think that it will be very interesting to see what the Marine Safety
Officer will conclude from the investigation of this grounding. I
suspect that the Master is going to have to hire a pile of GOOD Sea
Lawyers, just to keep his license from being suspended, or revoked.
Looks to me like a case of very Poor Seamanship, and navigation.
For a Small Passenger Ship to get itself in such a situation, shows
how much there is a need for better testing for a Masters License.

You are prejudging a situation where you were not present and have no way of
knowinbg all the factors at the time.

In article ,
Gogarty wrote:

In article ,
says...

I think that it will be very interesting to see what the Marine Safety
Officer will conclude from the investigation of this grounding. I
suspect that the Master is going to have to hire a pile of GOOD Sea
Lawyers, just to keep his license from being suspended, or revoked.
Looks to me like a case of very Poor Seamanship, and navigation.
For a Small Passenger Ship to get itself in such a situation, shows
how much there is a need for better testing for a Masters License.

You are prejudging a situation where you were not present and have no way of
knowinbg all the factors at the time.


I am not judging anything at all. I am waiting for the MSO to report
what he finds during his investigation. I have long experience in
documenting USCG Inquiry Boards, and outcomes. Most Masters that end
up at Inquiry, get suspended, or revoked. Especially if they had
Passengers aboard, as USCG Inquiries tend to come down harshly when
Passengers are put at risk.


Me

In article ,
says...


I am not judging anything at all. I am waiting for the MSO to report
what he finds during his investigation. I have long experience in
documenting USCG Inquiry Boards, and outcomes. Most Masters that end
up at Inquiry, get suspended, or revoked. Especially if they had
Passengers aboard, as USCG Inquiries tend to come down harshly when
Passengers are put at risk.

Not arguing with you about that at all. I agree. I also agree the poor skipper
is no doubt in serious trouble. But we don't know yet.

I keep thinking about Capt. Brown of the USS Missouri who went on the mud
approaching Newport Roads. He wasn't on watch. End of career. Or the skippewr
of that submaraine that hit the undersea mountain recently. End of career. And
he was just a victim of bad luck. But then, hindsight is marvelous, especially
among people who were not there.

On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 15:46:13 -0500, Gogarty
wrote:

Or the skipper
of that submaraine that hit the undersea mountain recently. End of career.

=======================

Has that been determined for a fact?

Actually Captain Brown was not only on watch he was on the bridge and
ignoring advice from his XO and the Quartermaster at the time.

-Ben-
Volunteer
USS Missouri (BB-63)

Me wrote:



I think that it will be very interesting to see what the Marine Safety
Officer will conclude from the investigation of this grounding. I
suspect that the Master is going to have to hire a pile of GOOD Sea
Lawyers, just to keep his license from being suspended, or revoked.
Looks to me like a case of very Poor Seamanship, and navigation.
For a Small Passenger Ship to get itself in such a situation, shows
how much there is a need for better testing for a Masters License.


Me

Until all the facts are in, we'll have to speculate. My only sense is
that he was too far right in his approach. If so, what caused this
and/or why, will determine much of what happens next.

As for license exams......
An exam is only an indication of how well someone takes exams and knows
basic information. From there, it becomes the onus of the
owners/managers of the particular vessel, to determine the suitability
of an individual to perform under that license.
If you look at those individuals giving the test for US upper licenses,
I doubt you'd find one who is themselves, qualified to hold that license.

otn