On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 00:20:33 GMT, "Falky foo"
wrote:

I think that sailors use power as little as they can, but as little as they
can turns out to, unfortunately, be quite a bit of the time.

Exactly. You either have that time, or you don't.

Or you make that time because it is a better way of living.

Damn it, I'm channeling Moitessier again.

R.

rhys wrote:
On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 00:20:33 GMT, "Falky foo"
wrote:

I think that sailors use power as little as they can, but as little
as they
can turns out to, unfortunately, be quite a bit of the time.

Exactly. You either have that time, or you don't.

Or you make that time because it is a better way of living.

Damn it, I'm channeling Moitessier again.

R.

Sailing is good for those days when the wind is right and you really
have nowhere to go. However, I have found that when cruising, I have
to engine on over 75% of the time. Think about it. Around here (N.
Florida) we have wind over 5 kts about 60% of the time. A sailboat
cannot sail into +-45 degrees of the wind so that is only 75% she can
sail into. Most of us do not have enough time or patience doing long
tacks back and forth to get where we want to go so .6X.75=.45. So, you
will motor 55% of the time. If you count the amount of time the wind
is very light and the boat only goes about 3 kts under sail alone but
will go over 6 kts under sail and power, that accounts for the other
20%. This does not even count the times you are going down the ICW
because it is actually shorter than going on the outside and you really
cannot sail in the ditch due to its numerous turns and so many
drawbridges sailing is pointless (You really should drop your sails
going under drawbridges). So, in the ICW, I normally use the roller
furling jib only.
All of this argues that a motorsailor is the answer as it can motor and
sorta sail. However, it doesnt sail well enough to really get th
efeeling on those days when the wind is good and you are really going
nowhere. My solution to this problem was to take the old 6.5 hp Yanmar
1GM out of my 28' S2 and replace it with a 13 hp 2GM with 3 bladed prop
for better long term motoring but to keep sailing performance. Even
cruising under continuous power and sail, I burn very little fuel. I
actually considered a 3GM engine but decided it was too heavy and the
2GM was a direct replacement. It might have been better to replace
with a 2GM20 but one was not available.
In conclusion, I think most shorter distance sail cruisers probably
should realize they will motor most of the time and plan for it while
using sail whenever they can.

On Carlisle lake here in IL, there are several 20-25 ft sailboats that
go out in the evening when people get off work and want to relax.
sometimes almost no wind, but people will take their boat out with
small outboards or inboard diesel for a smooth cruise.

I know of one guy that has a nice sailboat and it doesn't even have a
mast on it.
he and his family seem to have just as much fun and relaxation as
anybody.

Tim

"Tim" wrote in
oups.com:

I know of one guy that has a nice sailboat and it doesn't even have a
mast on it.
he and his family seem to have just as much fun and relaxation as
anybody.

Tim



I know someone who bought a 40' dismasted sloop really cheap. The yard
tore off all the sailing equipment left and cut down the keel by about
half, increasing their load capacity by a lot! He installed a 4 cylinder
Yanmar in his new "trawler" and off they went in their shallow-draft
trawler. They still have it many years later.....(c;

He always tells everyone diesel fuel and engines are LOTS cheaper than new
sails and rigging!

Falky foo wrote:
I "sailed" my boat, when I first got her, from LA Harbor to San Diego
solo.
I was determined to use sail only the whole way, but when I realized
that
sail was powering me at 2-3 mph and my motor was powering me at 5-6
mph, my
mind quickly changed. I just didn't have the time to sit there for
nearly a
week to try to get the boat down here.

Let's see, it's about 75 miles from LA to San Diego, so sailing @ 2.5
knots would have gotten you there in about 30 hours, not nearly a week.
At 5 knots the trip would be 15 hours, so by motoring the whole way
you saved a half a day. Hopefully you'll "have the time" to enjoy
sailing that passage someday.

Sadly, your calculations are off. It's 100 miles straight. Jibing (the
wind was from the NW) makes it more like 120 miles at least, and that's if
you can steer a perfectly straight course. At 2.5 mph that's 48 hours of
sailing. 8 hours of actual sailing a day plus getting into/out of
anchorages/guest slips and eating lunch on the water, that's 6 days. 10
hours of sailing a day plus the above is nearly 5 days. I was the only one
on board and it was storming with 12 foot swells.. I wasn't going to be out
there more than 10 hours a day. With the motor it took 3 full days.

Thanks for your input.

I "sailed" my boat, when I first got her, from LA Harbor to
San Diego

OK, that's a SE heading.

sail was powering me at 2-3 mph

That's not too fast.

(the wind was from the NW)

So you were going dead downwind.

and it was storming with 12 foot swells.

So there was plenty of wind.

And you could only do 2-3 mph! Are you sure you had your
sails up?

dudley
..

On 22 Feb 2005 14:30:08 -0800, wrote:
After reading hundreds of cruising logs, in-, near- and offshore, on
the net over the past several months, I have been struck by how often
and for how long cruising sailors report they are under engine power.
From what I have read, it would appear that sailors are under engine
power for something in the 80-90% range.

Why, then, have a sailboat? For the little time under sail and quiet?
Or is it a need to prove hardiness to oneself and to others?

=================================================

Precisely right. I live in an area of south Florida which is
constantly crossed by cruising sailors of every type and description.
Even on the Gulf of Mexico it is unusual to see one that is not
motoring or motor sailing under reduced sail plan.

As some one else pointed out in this thread, most cruising sailboats
are too loaded down (and have bottoms to rough/dirty), to sail well.
Based on the number of boats underway with greatly reduced sail plans,
I'd guess there's an aversion to being heeled over as well.

This is one of the reasons for the popularity of trawlers. You get
real engines, with real tank capacity so that at least you can motor
well, unlike most cruising sailboats that don't sail or motor very
well. In addition you get over twice the living area for the same
length of boat.

On 22 Feb 2005 14:30:08 -0800, wrote:

After reading hundreds of cruising logs, in-, near- and offshore, on
the net over the past several months, I have been struck by how often
and for how long cruising sailors report they are under engine power.
From what I have read, it would appear that sailors are under engine
power for something in the 80-90% range.

Why, then, have a sailboat? For the little time under sail and quiet?
Or is it a need to prove hardiness to oneself and to others?

Maybe, but to me it's a mark of the inability to deal with one's
choices.

Sailing is about the most expensive and least time-efficient modes of
travel you can devise. Short of taking a hot-air balloon across the
Atlantic, maybe.

If you have to be somewhere, don't sail.

If you have to meet someone who isn't also a sailboater, don't sail.

If you would rather drive at 100 km/hr then drift at two knots, don't
sail.

People ask me why I persist with my Atomic 4 gas engine. I reply that
I use about six gallons a season, because I fire it up essentially to
get in and out of the basin, which is ten minutes from dock to
head-to-wind and sail hoist. A diesel would HATE that, and as I charge
off shore power, I don't really rely on the alternator.

If I don't have time to screw the pooch (an inelegant but apt phrase),
I don't sail. Naturally, I make time to sail as much as possible,
because sailing is better than almost anything outside of what happens
in a V-berth when you are in an excellent mood because you've spent a
lovely day sailing.

So let the pleasure of sailing dictate your life, if your life
includes sailing. If not, enjoy the damp, expensive, noisy bar.

R.

Time taken to get to the next achorage before dark with a cruising boat
determines the method of propulsion. On a passsage when time is
irrelevant then sailing at 2Kn, as long as the ride is OK, is somewhat
calming. A 7 day passage will only require a time constraint when a
harbour or final destination is approached.
When we bought our first keel boat then 5Kn was the required speed.
Used any means to attain that. Now a bigger boat and no working
deadlines comfort if the paramount decision maker. Sloppy seas and
little wind gives rise to the noise of the motor, better being noisy
than uncomfortable.
A few observations from an offshore cruiser.
Lyn & Tony
S/V Ambrosia