Jim Donohue wrote:
And anyone who would teach a sailor to navigate without GPS is not only
incompetent as a navigation teacher but is willing to risk the well being of
another for some hobbyist view of the skill.


Gawd, what a stupid statement! Are you trying to replace Jax as our
resident idiot?

As soon as your student hits limited visibility she becomes a hazard to
herself and others.

And you would send a novice out in the fog because they know how to turn
on a GPS?

The bottom line is that a large number of sailors never go venture
outside of a relatively protected area. For example, hundreds of
sailors sail around Boston Harbor every day. I doubt that many of them
even have a GPS on board, but I hope they know the basics of piloting.

Your ludicrous statements only make sense if the student is headed out
tomorrow on their own boat; in reality most will not leave the harbor on
their own for a few years.




Jim Donohue

"Dave" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 20:51:28 -0800, "Jim Donohue"

said:


Not my experience. I'm teaching navigation to my 26 year old daughter,
and
she's thrilled with how she can verify our position with an LOP and look
at
her DR plot and correlate it to the objects she sees. We have a LORAN
aboard, but so far it hasn't interested her.

Ohh stop...what utter nonsense. Interesting navigation occurs when you
can't see anything and there is nothing for the radar to see. Then do
that
for 6 days. Then end up within 10 meters of where you aimed for.

Whatta jerk.

Interesting navigation is in the eye of the beholder, and to someone who
hasn't done it before it is as I described.


On what does she base her LOP? Wishful thinking? A voice in her brain?
For the sake of rationale behavior teach her how to use the real tools
than
you can teach her the hobby backups if she cares.

Same thing people doing piloting have been basing an LOP on for years.
Bearing taken with the hand bearing compass.

What seems to be your problem, Jim, wrong time of the month?

Only a fool would teach someone to navigate by GPS alone.

I taught just one coastal piloting class and then got promoted at my
day job and gave up being a sailing instructor on the side.

This was before even Loran was common on smaller cruisers so use of
electronics was not an issue. I had the people for about five
sessions followed by a short day trip to get them ready for sailing
around Boston Harbor and the adjoining coast so it had to be pretty
basic.

I started by saying, "I'm going to teach you to do about six simple
things. It doesn't sound like much but I want you to be able to do
them when you are tired, when you are seasick, when you are confused,
and when you are scared. I want you to practice and do them all the
time in good weather. If you wait until you need this knowledge and
haven't practiced, it isn't going to do you much good. There is no
such thing as finding out where you are, there is only keeping track
of where you are."

In all the sailing I did in New England, including long runs in fog,
I never really used much more than I taught in that class. I'm a
great believer in keeping it simple.

--

Roger Long

I don't know Jeff but your present tone begins to bear a significant
resemblance to the Jax.

Limited facts and very strong opinions are his hallmarks. You are sure
getting close.


"Jeff Morris" wrote in message
...
Jim Donohue wrote:
And anyone who would teach a sailor to navigate without GPS is not only
incompetent as a navigation teacher but is willing to risk the well being
of another for some hobbyist view of the skill.


Gawd, what a stupid statement! Are you trying to replace Jax as our
resident idiot?

As soon as your student hits limited visibility she becomes a hazard to
herself and others.

And you would send a novice out in the fog because they know how to turn
on a GPS?

And you would send her out knowing only DR? I think your IQ must be lower
than mine.

More seriously all newbys eventually end up in fog. It is often not a
planned act. Now tell me...caught in an unexpected fog would you rather
your student have GPS or DR skills?

The bottom line is that a large number of sailors never go venture outside
of a relatively protected area. For example, hundreds of sailors sail
around Boston Harbor every day. I doubt that many of them even have a GPS
on board, but I hope they know the basics of piloting.

Your ludicrous statements only make sense if the student is headed out
tomorrow on their own boat; in reality most will not leave the harbor on
their own for a few years.

Are we teaching them to enter into oceans or swimming pools?

If they are going to drive around a protected harbor give them a road map.
I see little use for GPS or DR on a park lake. Most of these would do OK
if we would teach them not to drink too much.

Jim Donohue