Home schooling while cruising
 

My bride and I are considering taking a year off and doing the Great
Circle Route/Loop, a mere 5000 miles around the east coast, the Erie
Canal and the Tenn-Tom. We would take our boys who will be 14 and 15 and
home schooling them on the boat, using a prepared curriculum and a
satellite Internet connection.

Does anyone out there have any experience in this type of adventure?

Capt. Jeff

Tamaroak wrote:
My bride and I are considering taking a year off and doing the Great
Circle Route/Loop, a mere 5000 miles around the east coast, the Erie
Canal and the Tenn-Tom. We would take our boys who will be 14 and 15 and
home schooling them on the boat, using a prepared curriculum and a
satellite Internet connection.

Does anyone out there have any experience in this type of adventure?

Capt. Jeff

Great idea!!! Your boys will love it & it'll be the best time of all
your lives.

In my cruising days (too long ago now:-() we oft came across people
with their kids from babies on up, I've had my grandkids on board the
current boat for weeks at a time, one since 11 days old.

The older kids really become part of the whole boating adventure &
you'll find they grow up & mature much quicker & better than their bored
at home friends.

Give them lots of boat responsibility (but stay safe of course:-)) &
room, they'll be meeting all sorts along the way which is what the young
need to experience.

Here downunder they use a correspondence system with internet (used to
be HF radio) even at home kids use it in the outback, so there's no down
side to their education indeed if you &/or your partner get involved the
whole family's education will improve:-)

I'm sure your boys are angels & you'd never have anything to worry
about in their teen years, just as all parents believe;-) but alas these
days it seems all sorts of new temptations, risks & pitfalls await them.
Being with you as a family will help guide them through & out the other
side, it seems there's only about 12 mths they need to get through,
those that do are fine for life with a good attitude & education, those
that don't have a lesser life & it seems to remain thus right to the end.

Have a great time & enjoy showing your boys that being a responsible
adult doesn't mean you're near dead & you can still have an exciting
adventu-)


K

Another reason why the east excels ,,, let your children learn in a proper
learning environment. I know that is tough to do in the west,, tough to find
a good one. But when they become 25 years old and need to compete for a job,
they may get stuck looking for the union job like Harry did. 17% of
Americans are forced to unionize, not much market value.















"K. Smith" wrote in message
...
Tamaroak wrote:
My bride and I are considering taking a year off and doing the Great
Circle Route/Loop, a mere 5000 miles around the east coast, the Erie
Canal and the Tenn-Tom. We would take our boys who will be 14 and 15 and
home schooling them on the boat, using a prepared curriculum and a
satellite Internet connection.

Does anyone out there have any experience in this type of adventure?

Capt. Jeff

Great idea!!! Your boys will love it & it'll be the best time of all your
lives.

In my cruising days (too long ago now:-() we oft came across people with
their kids from babies on up, I've had my grandkids on board the current
boat for weeks at a time, one since 11 days old.

The older kids really become part of the whole boating adventure & you'll
find they grow up & mature much quicker & better than their bored at home
friends.

Give them lots of boat responsibility (but stay safe of course:-)) & room,
they'll be meeting all sorts along the way which is what the young need to
experience.

Here downunder they use a correspondence system with internet (used to be
HF radio) even at home kids use it in the outback, so there's no down side
to their education indeed if you &/or your partner get involved the whole
family's education will improve:-)

I'm sure your boys are angels & you'd never have anything to worry about
in their teen years, just as all parents believe;-) but alas these days it
seems all sorts of new temptations, risks & pitfalls await them. Being
with you as a family will help guide them through & out the other side, it
seems there's only about 12 mths they need to get through, those that do
are fine for life with a good attitude & education, those that don't have
a lesser life & it seems to remain thus right to the end.

Have a great time & enjoy showing your boys that being a responsible adult
doesn't mean you're near dead & you can still have an exciting
adventu-)


K

On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 14:44:04 -0600, Tamaroak
wrote:

My bride and I are considering taking a year off and doing the Great
Circle Route/Loop, a mere 5000 miles around the east coast, the Erie
Canal and the Tenn-Tom. We would take our boys who will be 14 and 15 and
home schooling them on the boat, using a prepared curriculum and a
satellite Internet connection.

Does anyone out there have any experience in this type of adventure?


No personal experience - no kids. But I would recommend reading some
books by Liza Copeland

Just Cruising
Still Cruising
Cruising for Cowards
and some others which do not spring to mind.

She has an article on SailNet, on the topic
http://www.sailnet.com/collections/a...eid=copela0008

Jack

__________________________________________________
Jack Dale
Swiftsure Sailing Academy
Director/ISPA and CYA Instructor
http://www.swiftsuresailing.com
__________________________________________________

Tuuk wrote:
Another reason why the east excels ,,, let your children learn in a proper
learning environment. I know that is tough to do in the west,, tough to find
a good one. But when they become 25 years old and need to compete for a job,
they may get stuck looking for the union job like Harry did. 17% of
Americans are forced to unionize, not much market value.

Uninformed opinion unrelated to boating. Take this over to
alt.republican.pinheads

Tuuk,
From what I've read, home schooler's excel above the other students. I'm
sure some parents are better at this than others but the figures said they
for the most part are doing very well.
Paul

"Tuuk" wrote in message
...
Another reason why the east excels ,,, let your children learn in a proper
learning environment. I know that is tough to do in the west,, tough to
find a good one. But when they become 25 years old and need to compete for
a job, they may get stuck looking for the union job like Harry did. 17% of
Americans are forced to unionize, not much market value.















"K. Smith" wrote in message
...
Tamaroak wrote:
My bride and I are considering taking a year off and doing the Great
Circle Route/Loop, a mere 5000 miles around the east coast, the Erie
Canal and the Tenn-Tom. We would take our boys who will be 14 and 15 and
home schooling them on the boat, using a prepared curriculum and a
satellite Internet connection.

Does anyone out there have any experience in this type of adventure?

Capt. Jeff

Great idea!!! Your boys will love it & it'll be the best time of all your
lives.

In my cruising days (too long ago now:-() we oft came across people with
their kids from babies on up, I've had my grandkids on board the current
boat for weeks at a time, one since 11 days old.

The older kids really become part of the whole boating adventure & you'll
find they grow up & mature much quicker & better than their bored at home
friends.

Give them lots of boat responsibility (but stay safe of course:-)) &
room, they'll be meeting all sorts along the way which is what the young
need to experience.

Here downunder they use a correspondence system with internet (used to be
HF radio) even at home kids use it in the outback, so there's no down
side to their education indeed if you &/or your partner get involved the
whole family's education will improve:-)

I'm sure your boys are angels & you'd never have anything to worry about
in their teen years, just as all parents believe;-) but alas these days
it seems all sorts of new temptations, risks & pitfalls await them. Being
with you as a family will help guide them through & out the other side,
it seems there's only about 12 mths they need to get through, those that
do are fine for life with a good attitude & education, those that don't
have a lesser life & it seems to remain thus right to the end.

Have a great time & enjoy showing your boys that being a responsible
adult doesn't mean you're near dead & you can still have an exciting
adventu-)


K

Paul Schilter wrote:
Tuuk,
From what I've read, home schooler's excel above the other students. I'm
sure some parents are better at this than others but the figures said they
for the most part are doing very well.
Paul


Yeah Tuuk; here there was a while ago some competition or test to find
the best school kid at something or another in the country & the prize
was really big bucks for the winners school, it all got a bit
embarrassing when the winner was a home educated correspondence girl.
(her & her mum were on the telly & mum was well chuffed I can tell you)

The "east" as you say don't get educated because they outright don't
educate their children. I'd suggest they are hundreds of years behind
the west on account of it, if they did educate their kids we might not
have had to suffer 911 nor live in constant apprehension of another.

Here the teachers are fully unionised & so your kid not only comes out
poorly educated to the lowest common denominator but with a full on left
leaning cry baby attitude:-) You're right it takes union educated kids
till they're 25 to find out how the world really is & recover. Some of
the really stupid ones never do recover & they become union employees or
used car salesmen then used boat salesmen. Sad really, wasted lives but
some grace I guess; they're so stupid they don't even realise it.

My comment is if this bloke genuinely cares for his kids (most all do,
well OK not Krause despite his recent lie to the contrary, has been
estranged from his forever, because they probably picked up their mum's
genes & stayed close with her when she got away from him, lucky hey??)
then this enquirer no matter how bad, can't do any worse for his boys
than the union teaching lefty brainwashing sessions.

K

"Tuuk" wrote in message
...

Another reason why the east excels ,,, let your children learn in a proper
learning environment. I know that is tough to do in the west,, tough to
find a good one. But when they become 25 years old and need to compete for
a job, they may get stuck looking for the union job like Harry did. 17% of
Americans are forced to unionize, not much market value.















"K. Smith" wrote in message
...

Tamaroak wrote:

My bride and I are considering taking a year off and doing the Great
Circle Route/Loop, a mere 5000 miles around the east coast, the Erie
Canal and the Tenn-Tom. We would take our boys who will be 14 and 15 and
home schooling them on the boat, using a prepared curriculum and a
satellite Internet connection.

Does anyone out there have any experience in this type of adventure?

Capt. Jeff

Great idea!!! Your boys will love it & it'll be the best time of all your
lives.

In my cruising days (too long ago now:-() we oft came across people with
their kids from babies on up, I've had my grandkids on board the current
boat for weeks at a time, one since 11 days old.

The older kids really become part of the whole boating adventure & you'll
find they grow up & mature much quicker & better than their bored at home
friends.

Give them lots of boat responsibility (but stay safe of course:-)) &
room, they'll be meeting all sorts along the way which is what the young
need to experience.

Here downunder they use a correspondence system with internet (used to be
HF radio) even at home kids use it in the outback, so there's no down
side to their education indeed if you &/or your partner get involved the
whole family's education will improve:-)

I'm sure your boys are angels & you'd never have anything to worry about
in their teen years, just as all parents believe;-) but alas these days
it seems all sorts of new temptations, risks & pitfalls await them. Being
with you as a family will help guide them through & out the other side,
it seems there's only about 12 mths they need to get through, those that
do are fine for life with a good attitude & education, those that don't
have a lesser life & it seems to remain thus right to the end.

Have a great time & enjoy showing your boys that being a responsible
adult doesn't mean you're near dead & you can still have an exciting
adventu-)


K

We would take our boys who will be 14 and 15 and
home schooling them on the boat, using a prepared curriculum and a
satellite Internet connection.


We home schooled our daugther for 1st and 2nd grade while cruising on Mexico
west coast. It was with the San Diego schools. We used there guidlines but we
could use the material that we wanted. We liked the choice of material because
we could apply what we were seeing in the class. If you have a perpared
curriculum it will not be about what is around you which makes for extra work
for the kids. We had a science project every week. We would go to the beach and
look for science stuff to do. Everytrip to town was a Social Studies class.

The prepared curriculum is easier on you, because you do not have to prepare
it. With your plan to do 5000 miles in one year this maybe a good choice for
you. You won't have time to see much of what is around you anyway.

The experience was good for our daughter. She is now 14 and in 9th grade and
has had a 4.0 for the last two years.

Dick

Dick wrote:
We would take our boys who will be 14 and 15 and
home schooling them on the boat, using a prepared curriculum and a
satellite Internet connection.



We home schooled our daugther for 1st and 2nd grade while cruising on Mexico
west coast. It was with the San Diego schools. We used there guidlines but we
could use the material that we wanted. We liked the choice of material because
we could apply what we were seeing in the class. If you have a perpared
curriculum it will not be about what is around you which makes for extra work
for the kids. We had a science project every week. We would go to the beach and
look for science stuff to do. Everytrip to town was a Social Studies class.

The prepared curriculum is easier on you, because you do not have to prepare
it. With your plan to do 5000 miles in one year this maybe a good choice for
you. You won't have time to see much of what is around you anyway.

The experience was good for our daughter. She is now 14 and in 9th grade and
has had a 4.0 for the last two years.

Dick



Maybe she learned the difference between "there" and "their" in school.

Interesting,,, lets parse it,,,




Yeah Tuuk; here there was a while ago some competition or test to find the
best school kid at something or another in the country & the prize was
really big bucks for the winners school, it all got a bit embarrassing
when the winner was a home educated correspondence girl. (her & her mum
were on the telly & mum was well chuffed I can tell you)


Yes, I will agree with you there, for certain there will be better more
qualified and successful educators done one on one at home, with say the
parent who cares. At the local public schools there is a problem. I see
western students at university who cannot read. Even private universities do
not motivate enough or produce a product that can compete in the real world.




The "east" as you say don't get educated because they outright don't
educate their children. I'd suggest they are hundreds of years behind the
west on account of it, if they did educate their kids we might not have
had to suffer 911 nor live in constant apprehension of another.



No, not at all, I am talking the east such as the Asian countries, the ones
that are economically exploding. Of couse there are poor countries
everywhere, and middle east and the islamic or muslims teach the wrong
things. That is why they attacked on 911. Those schools focus so much on the
koran, teaching to hate non muslims, hating non islam and they do not spend
enough time on the maths and sciences etc. When they become 20 years old and
ready to compete in the workplace, they fail and see others so wealthy then
the jealousy, rage, anger, and they rebel against the apex.

The countries where I have attended universities in the west and east,, I
know that the east uncontestably does a better job. Where there is a big
difference is the costs and greed. Tuitions especially but one thing that
shocked me was text books. For example, in a university in Thailand, an
economics book, same edition, same publisher as the west, simply different
language goes for about 3.00 U.S. and here about 145.00 U.S. Same book. The
learning environment is much different also. Classroom sizes are small
(student) and the teachers actually give a dam, I mean no cell phones, no
walking in or out late, all uniforms, always homework done. Here it is a
joke, and here you will graduate with honors relatively easy, there you earn
it.






Here the teachers are fully unionised & so your kid not only comes out
poorly educated to the lowest common denominator but with a full on left
leaning cry baby attitude:-) You're right it takes union educated kids
till they're 25 to find out how the world really is & recover. Some of the
really stupid ones never do recover & they become union employees or used
car salesmen then used boat salesmen. Sad really, wasted lives but some
grace I guess; they're so stupid they don't even realise it.


I couldn't agree with you more there,,,





My comment is if this bloke genuinely cares for his kids (most all do,
well OK not Krause despite his recent lie to the contrary, has been
estranged from his forever, because they probably picked up their mum's
genes & stayed close with her when she got away from him, lucky hey??)
then this enquirer no matter how bad, can't do any worse for his boys than
the union teaching lefty brainwashing sessions.



I couldn't agree with you more there either,,, and I didn't know that about
Harry,, I might have guessed that and definatly not surprised and that
proves my point to him undisputably. Black and white.

But to better answer the caller's question, yes with proper resources,
motivation and training a student could learn more in that environment. What
they might miss would be the public speaking opportunities, team work,
friendships, but at their age, they could easily go one on one with the
computer and yes learn more than at a public school.






K

"Tuuk" wrote in message
...

Another reason why the east excels ,,, let your children learn in a
proper learning environment. I know that is tough to do in the west,,
tough to find a good one. But when they become 25 years old and need to
compete for a job, they may get stuck looking for the union job like
Harry did. 17% of Americans are forced to unionize, not much market
value.















"K. Smith" wrote in message
...

Tamaroak wrote:

My bride and I are considering taking a year off and doing the Great
Circle Route/Loop, a mere 5000 miles around the east coast, the Erie
Canal and the Tenn-Tom. We would take our boys who will be 14 and 15
and home schooling them on the boat, using a prepared curriculum and a
satellite Internet connection.

Does anyone out there have any experience in this type of adventure?

Capt. Jeff

Great idea!!! Your boys will love it & it'll be the best time of all
your lives.

In my cruising days (too long ago now:-() we oft came across people with
their kids from babies on up, I've had my grandkids on board the current
boat for weeks at a time, one since 11 days old.

The older kids really become part of the whole boating adventure &
you'll find they grow up & mature much quicker & better than their bored
at home friends.

Give them lots of boat responsibility (but stay safe of course:-)) &
room, they'll be meeting all sorts along the way which is what the young
need to experience.

Here downunder they use a correspondence system with internet (used to
be HF radio) even at home kids use it in the outback, so there's no down
side to their education indeed if you &/or your partner get involved the
whole family's education will improve:-)

I'm sure your boys are angels & you'd never have anything to worry about
in their teen years, just as all parents believe;-) but alas these days
it seems all sorts of new temptations, risks & pitfalls await them.
Being with you as a family will help guide them through & out the other
side, it seems there's only about 12 mths they need to get through,
those that do are fine for life with a good attitude & education, those
that don't have a lesser life & it seems to remain thus right to the
end.

Have a great time & enjoy showing your boys that being a responsible
adult doesn't mean you're near dead & you can still have an exciting
adventu-)


K

Tuuk wrote:
Interesting,,, lets parse it,,,




Yeah Tuuk; here there was a while ago some competition or test to find the
best school kid at something or another in the country & the prize was
really big bucks for the winners school, it all got a bit embarrassing
when the winner was a home educated correspondence girl. (her & her mum
were on the telly & mum was well chuffed I can tell you)



Yes, I will agree with you there, for certain there will be better more
qualified and successful educators done one on one at home, with say the
parent who cares. At the local public schools there is a problem. I see
western students at university who cannot read. Even private universities do
not motivate enough or produce a product that can compete in the real world.


Yes we have the same thing here, the Fed govt is trying to make funding
dependent upon schools at least meeting minimum benchmarks ( & they are
sad minimums:-)) but the teachers unions backed by lefty state
administrations are fighting it tooth & nail.



The "east" as you say don't get educated because they outright don't
educate their children. I'd suggest they are hundreds of years behind the
west on account of it, if they did educate their kids we might not have
had to suffer 911 nor live in constant apprehension of another.




No, not at all, I am talking the east such as the Asian countries, the ones
that are economically exploding. Of couse there are poor countries
everywhere, and middle east and the islamic or muslims teach the wrong
things. That is why they attacked on 911. Those schools focus so much on the
koran, teaching to hate non muslims, hating non islam and they do not spend
enough time on the maths and sciences etc. When they become 20 years old and
ready to compete in the workplace, they fail and see others so wealthy then
the jealousy, rage, anger, and they rebel against the apex.

I know I'll get into trouble for saying this but here & I suspect there
it's not much better:-) The unionised teachers take peoples' kids & fill
them full of lefty political stuff at the expense of real teaching. Yes
accepted they need more than an academic education, but that's not for
loony left teachers unions to decide, it's the unwritten, unannounced
political brainwashing curriculum the teachers run that produces
otherwise bright kids at university who can't bloody read nor do basic
maths.


The countries where I have attended universities in the west and east,, I
know that the east uncontestably does a better job. Where there is a big
difference is the costs and greed. Tuitions especially but one thing that
shocked me was text books. For example, in a university in Thailand, an
economics book, same edition, same publisher as the west, simply different
language goes for about 3.00 U.S. and here about 145.00 U.S. Same book. The
learning environment is much different also. Classroom sizes are small
(student) and the teachers actually give a dam, I mean no cell phones, no
walking in or out late, all uniforms, always homework done. Here it is a
joke, and here you will graduate with honors relatively easy, there you earn
it.


Yep & around here especially many the outstanding kids are of Asian
origin & invariably from private non unionised schools, it's a sad thing
to see happening. Of course the left say crazy things like "see lets
take their govt. funds (few that there are for private schools anyway)
because their students' good results mean they don't need it".

I'm sure you've had the same racist joke there, (prior apologies for
any offense) but as regards the homework part, it's about right;

Q: how do you know if your house has been robbed by a Vietnamese???
A: your dog is gone & your homework's done.






Here the teachers are fully unionised & so your kid not only comes out
poorly educated to the lowest common denominator but with a full on left
leaning cry baby attitude:-) You're right it takes union educated kids
till they're 25 to find out how the world really is & recover. Some of the
really stupid ones never do recover & they become union employees or used
car salesmen then used boat salesmen. Sad really, wasted lives but some
grace I guess; they're so stupid they don't even realise it.



I couldn't agree with you more there,,,





My comment is if this bloke genuinely cares for his kids (most all do,
well OK not Krause despite his recent lie to the contrary, has been
estranged from his forever, because they probably picked up their mum's
genes & stayed close with her when she got away from him, lucky hey??)
then this enquirer no matter how bad, can't do any worse for his boys than
the union teaching lefty brainwashing sessions.




I couldn't agree with you more there either,,, and I didn't know that about
Harry,, I might have guessed that and definatly not surprised and that
proves my point to him undisputably. Black and white.

The other day he claimed to have a happy relationship with his kids;
yet years ago here he told us all what monsters his ex wife (choice
Krause lines about the ex wife as you can imagine) & kids were & that he
hadn't seen them in years, trouble with liars they just make it up as
they go along:-)


But to better answer the caller's question, yes with proper resources,
motivation and training a student could learn more in that environment. What
they might miss would be the public speaking opportunities, team work,
friendships, but at their age, they could easily go one on one with the
computer and yes learn more than at a public school.

I guess so but 12 mths shouldn't do that much harm even if it's a total
loss education wise, but if it works out it could be the making of the boys.

I'm not for a minute suggesting they're likely to become Rhodes
scholars via correspondence internet, but I'd hope with the parents help
they shouldn't fall behind.


K








K


"Tuuk" wrote in message
...


Another reason why the east excels ,,, let your children learn in a
proper learning environment. I know that is tough to do in the west,,
tough to find a good one. But when they become 25 years old and need to
compete for a job, they may get stuck looking for the union job like
Harry did. 17% of Americans are forced to unionize, not much market
value.















"K. Smith" wrote in message
...


Tamaroak wrote:


My bride and I are considering taking a year off and doing the Great
Circle Route/Loop, a mere 5000 miles around the east coast, the Erie
Canal and the Tenn-Tom. We would take our boys who will be 14 and 15
and home schooling them on the boat, using a prepared curriculum and a
satellite Internet connection.

Does anyone out there have any experience in this type of adventure?

Capt. Jeff

Great idea!!! Your boys will love it & it'll be the best time of all
your lives.

In my cruising days (too long ago now:-() we oft came across people with
their kids from babies on up, I've had my grandkids on board the current
boat for weeks at a time, one since 11 days old.

The older kids really become part of the whole boating adventure &
you'll find they grow up & mature much quicker & better than their bored
at home friends.

Give them lots of boat responsibility (but stay safe of course:-)) &
room, they'll be meeting all sorts along the way which is what the young
need to experience.

Here downunder they use a correspondence system with internet (used to
be HF radio) even at home kids use it in the outback, so there's no down
side to their education indeed if you &/or your partner get involved the
whole family's education will improve:-)

I'm sure your boys are angels & you'd never have anything to worry about
in their teen years, just as all parents believe;-) but alas these days
it seems all sorts of new temptations, risks & pitfalls await them.
Being with you as a family will help guide them through & out the other
side, it seems there's only about 12 mths they need to get through,
those that do are fine for life with a good attitude & education, those
that don't have a lesser life & it seems to remain thus right to the
end.

Have a great time & enjoy showing your boys that being a responsible
adult doesn't mean you're near dead & you can still have an exciting
adventu-)


K

Jeff,

My experience is old, but the other side.

Things kids schooled on board miss:
Some school based activities (sports - theater - clubs)
Some social development that is now a part of life.
(out of school for a year or two - this will no be and issue)
The peer group fashion police that criticize everyone for whatever
he/she wears and how much it cost.
The local bullies that own the turf and expect tribute at every turn
and teach their way to respond to threats and intimidation.
They will have a very difficult time establishing connections to
purchase for things their school peers might buy with the money
provided to replace the parent/family time.
Being bored silly in a class because the rote learning process is
slower for many of the classmates.

If they return to the same school they left, they may be somewhat out of
step. In the year of home school, it is not uncommon for a student that
was doing mediocre work to advance two grade levels (my wife is an
adviser to several home school families).

Many years ago, we lived on a Maine built Ketch. She was finished just
after the war (WW2)and was intended to be a coaster. I was the youngest
of three and the only one to come aboard as a newborn.

My mother ran school as was required, but I started earlier than could
have happened ashore. When time came to move into a house, it was rough
for my siblings. Both ended up in placed by grade level and so were
the youngest in the class by a year or more. They survived.

Would I subject two boys to this - in a heartbeat. They will be set in
an experience that they will able to draw on for a lifetime. The people
that they might not get along with aren't worth getting along with anyway.



Tamaroak wrote:
My bride and I are considering taking a year off and doing the Great
Circle Route/Loop, a mere 5000 miles around the east coast, the Erie
Canal and the Tenn-Tom. We would take our boys who will be 14 and 15 and
home schooling them on the boat, using a prepared curriculum and a
satellite Internet connection.

Does anyone out there have any experience in this type of adventure?

Capt. Jeff

Tuuk wrote:
You make some good points,,


let me just add a couple quick quick points.


I found interesting this last couple years living here in the west, I
experienced on several occasions very young students knocking on my door and
selling me chocolate bars. Now every time I ask where the proceeds go. It
appears they are to help out at the schools. When asked for specifics the
students couldn't explain. I called the school, asked the principal where
the proceeds were going, she claimed they were going into a fund to offset
"government cuts". She badmouthed the government inside out and upside down
and when I asked for a bit of a breakdown, she said she was paying overtime
rates for teachers who worked over a certain time. So what the teachers are
doing in my neck of the woods are shuffling off the children at nights to
earn money selling chocolate bars. Now in my area, the teachers earn a high
rate, they have summers off, they have every holiday off, they have extra
holidays off. It is unbelievable. Yet they make the students spend their
time going door to door. Students come home today not with homework but with
lessons. It is the responsibility of the parents today to teach lessons at
home. And another thing that bothers me yet I do not understand it totally
is the ADD (attention disorder deficit) or something like that. Teachers are
demanding that younger students sit there wasted on drugs or they are not
allowed in the classroom. You know, I don't know what all these acronyms
mean but I had everyone of them growing up in school, still have them and I
don't need drugs.

Love it!!! No wonder you pegged Krause as a non boating, lying,
uneducated simpleton so easily, well done:-)


I notice at the universities locally, they are separating the Asian students
from the domestic students. The Asians are embarrassing the domestic
students. Asians never had summers off, never had ADD, never needed drugs,
never were forced to give up the play time to sell chocolate bars. Any money
earned after school went to the parents and not the teachers.

Hmmm I think I'd like to stress as strongly as I can; that the reason
our Asian students "on average" are doing so well is a cultural work
ethic thing, mostly pushed by parents (sometimes pushed too hard in my
view) & not that any race is inherently smarter nor dumber than the
other. We've had a couple of episodes here of recent years, where pass
marks just were not good enough & the students resorted to what can only
be called cheating & another university actually gave in to pressure &
remarked papers to satisfy parents. I think there are over the top pushy
parents in all things related to kids, schooling achievements are an
obvious one by gee it goes down to parent violence at kids sport,
everything.

When I was young we had lots of post war Sthn European immigrants & the
almost exact same thing happened, as new "immigrants" the family had a
very high work ethic & they didn't accept any excuses from teachers or
their kids, school was to learn & that's what they did. Now those same
families are "assimilated" into our country & mostly invisible, so to as
the years go by this will happen to immigrants from most anywhere to
anywhere.

Of course an habitual liar like Krause?? time won't help.


And the teachers today are sending home political documentation that is
wrong, it promotes as you suggest the lefties and socialists etc etc and it
suggests it is in the best interests of the parents to vote according to
their recommendations as they suggest it is the best for the students. Like
a gun to their heads.

Yes this aspect is a real worry & I honestly think it's damaging
society in general, here it's full on lefty brain washing & even very
young children come out with "blame the govt" or "blame evil business"
taught mantras from the school system. They're too young to even wonder
how they'll live their lives if "business" people stopped risking
"their" money to provide jobs to others so those same others can abuse
them for their efforts.


Just about every year, I notice also in this social education system, a
rotating strike just before examination time. Now the poor students who
happen to be stuck at the school with the strike gives up their year. Or
simply is given the credit yet falls far behind. This is something that I
have never experienced in any other part of the world.

Yep these scum labour organisations work together world wide, if they
find a standover tactic that works in one country they quickly
transplant it to another, they care for nothing but their own power at
the expense of others, including their own members.

Almost single handedly they've wrecked the education systems in western
countries, the once great US manufacturing sector, now all that's left
is retailing & it seems they're intent on destroying even that.


To the original caller, ya go ahead and take the students out of the
bureaucracy and I am sure they will receive better training from themselves
or parents. Go to the school, ask for the syllabi for the year and I know
you can do a better job than the teachers do. It appears teachers today are
glorified day care workers, right up until the time of university.

Most systems will supply a correspondence course, send out or give
online the material, the tests, even some extra assistance if things get
rocky (little joke there for a boating trip).

Have you noticed the way Krause thinks the merits or otherwise of what
you say is all about "where you come from" ??? He really is the lowest
of the low & all on his own drops that common denominator into the sewer.


K









"K. Smith" wrote in message
...

Tuuk wrote:

Interesting,,, lets parse it,,,





Yeah Tuuk; here there was a while ago some competition or test to find
the best school kid at something or another in the country & the prize
was really big bucks for the winners school, it all got a bit
embarrassing when the winner was a home educated correspondence girl.
(her & her mum were on the telly & mum was well chuffed I can tell you)



Yes, I will agree with you there, for certain there will be better more
qualified and successful educators done one on one at home, with say the
parent who cares. At the local public schools there is a problem. I see
western students at university who cannot read. Even private universities
do not motivate enough or produce a product that can compete in the real
world.



Yes we have the same thing here, the Fed govt is trying to make funding
dependent upon schools at least meeting minimum benchmarks ( & they are
sad minimums:-)) but the teachers unions backed by lefty state
administrations are fighting it tooth & nail.



The "east" as you say don't get educated because they outright don't
educate their children. I'd suggest they are hundreds of years behind the
west on account of it, if they did educate their kids we might not have
had to suffer 911 nor live in constant apprehension of another.




No, not at all, I am talking the east such as the Asian countries, the
ones that are economically exploding. Of couse there are poor countries
everywhere, and middle east and the islamic or muslims teach the wrong
things. That is why they attacked on 911. Those schools focus so much on
the koran, teaching to hate non muslims, hating non islam and they do not
spend enough time on the maths and sciences etc. When they become 20
years old and ready to compete in the workplace, they fail and see
others so wealthy then the jealousy, rage, anger, and they rebel against
the apex.

I know I'll get into trouble for saying this but here & I suspect there
it's not much better:-) The unionised teachers take peoples' kids & fill
them full of lefty political stuff at the expense of real teaching. Yes
accepted they need more than an academic education, but that's not for
loony left teachers unions to decide, it's the unwritten, unannounced
political brainwashing curriculum the teachers run that produces otherwise
bright kids at university who can't bloody read nor do basic maths.


The countries where I have attended universities in the west and east,, I
know that the east uncontestably does a better job. Where there is a big
difference is the costs and greed. Tuitions especially but one thing that
shocked me was text books. For example, in a university in Thailand, an
economics book, same edition, same publisher as the west, simply
different language goes for about 3.00 U.S. and here about 145.00 U.S.
Same book. The learning environment is much different also. Classroom
sizes are small (student) and the teachers actually give a dam, I mean no
cell phones, no walking in or out late, all uniforms, always homework
done. Here it is a joke, and here you will graduate with honors
relatively easy, there you earn it.



Yep & around here especially many the outstanding kids are of Asian origin
& invariably from private non unionised schools, it's a sad thing to see
happening. Of course the left say crazy things like "see lets take their
govt. funds (few that there are for private schools anyway) because their
students' good results mean they don't need it".

I'm sure you've had the same racist joke there, (prior apologies for any
offense) but as regards the homework part, it's about right;

Q: how do you know if your house has been robbed by a Vietnamese???
A: your dog is gone & your homework's done.






Here the teachers are fully unionised & so your kid not only comes out
poorly educated to the lowest common denominator but with a full on left
leaning cry baby attitude:-) You're right it takes union educated kids
till they're 25 to find out how the world really is & recover. Some of
the really stupid ones never do recover & they become union employees or
used car salesmen then used boat salesmen. Sad really, wasted lives but
some grace I guess; they're so stupid they don't even realise it.



I couldn't agree with you more there,,,






My comment is if this bloke genuinely cares for his kids (most all do,
well OK not Krause despite his recent lie to the contrary, has been
estranged from his forever, because they probably picked up their mum's
genes & stayed close with her when she got away from him, lucky hey??)
then this enquirer no matter how bad, can't do any worse for his boys
than the union teaching lefty brainwashing sessions.




I couldn't agree with you more there either,,, and I didn't know that
about Harry,, I might have guessed that and definatly not surprised and
that proves my point to him undisputably. Black and white.

The other day he claimed to have a happy relationship with his kids; yet
years ago here he told us all what monsters his ex wife (choice Krause
lines about the ex wife as you can imagine) & kids were & that he hadn't
seen them in years, trouble with liars they just make it up as they go
along:-)


But to better answer the caller's question, yes with proper resources,
motivation and training a student could learn more in that environment.
What they might miss would be the public speaking opportunities, team
work, friendships, but at their age, they could easily go one on one with
the computer and yes learn more than at a public school.

I guess so but 12 mths shouldn't do that much harm even if it's a total
loss education wise, but if it works out it could be the making of the
boys.

I'm not for a minute suggesting they're likely to become Rhodes scholars
via correspondence internet, but I'd hope with the parents help they
shouldn't fall behind.


K








K



"Tuuk" wrote in message
.. .



Another reason why the east excels ,,, let your children learn in a
proper learning environment. I know that is tough to do in the west,,
tough to find a good one. But when they become 25 years old and need to
compete for a job, they may get stuck looking for the union job like
Harry did. 17% of Americans are forced to unionize, not much market
value.















"K. Smith" wrote in message
...



Tamaroak wrote:



My bride and I are considering taking a year off and doing the Great
Circle Route/Loop, a mere 5000 miles around the east coast, the Erie
Canal and the Tenn-Tom. We would take our boys who will be 14 and 15
and home schooling them on the boat, using a prepared curriculum and
a satellite Internet connection.

Does anyone out there have any experience in this type of adventure?

Capt. Jeff

Great idea!!! Your boys will love it & it'll be the best time of all
your lives.

In my cruising days (too long ago now:-() we oft came across people
with their kids from babies on up, I've had my grandkids on board the
current boat for weeks at a time, one since 11 days old.

The older kids really become part of the whole boating adventure &
you'll find they grow up & mature much quicker & better than their
bored at home friends.

Give them lots of boat responsibility (but stay safe of course:-)) &
room, they'll be meeting all sorts along the way which is what the
young need to experience.

Here downunder they use a correspondence system with internet (used to
be HF radio) even at home kids use it in the outback, so there's no
down side to their education indeed if you &/or your partner get
involved the whole family's education will improve:-)

I'm sure your boys are angels & you'd never have anything to worry
about in their teen years, just as all parents believe;-) but alas
these days it seems all sorts of new temptations, risks & pitfalls
await them. Being with you as a family will help guide them through &
out the other side, it seems there's only about 12 mths they need to
get through, those that do are fine for life with a good attitude &
education, those that don't have a lesser life & it seems to remain
thus right to the end.

Have a great time & enjoy showing your boys that being a responsible
adult doesn't mean you're near dead & you can still have an exciting
adventu-)


K

Yes,, he is an interesting specimen,, I enjoy having fun with the old boy,,

A little bit twisted in some of his ways but that is ok, I don't hold that
against him,,,,







"K. Smith" wrote in message
...
Tuuk wrote:
You make some good points,,


let me just add a couple quick quick points.


I found interesting this last couple years living here in the west, I
experienced on several occasions very young students knocking on my door
and selling me chocolate bars. Now every time I ask where the proceeds
go. It appears they are to help out at the schools. When asked for
specifics the students couldn't explain. I called the school, asked the
principal where the proceeds were going, she claimed they were going into
a fund to offset "government cuts". She badmouthed the government inside
out and upside down and when I asked for a bit of a breakdown, she said
she was paying overtime rates for teachers who worked over a certain
time. So what the teachers are doing in my neck of the woods are
shuffling off the children at nights to earn money selling chocolate
bars. Now in my area, the teachers earn a high rate, they have summers
off, they have every holiday off, they have extra holidays off. It is
unbelievable. Yet they make the students spend their time going door to
door. Students come home today not with homework but with lessons. It is
the responsibility of the parents today to teach lessons at home. And
another thing that bothers me yet I do not understand it totally is the
ADD (attention disorder deficit) or something like that. Teachers are
demanding that younger students sit there wasted on drugs or they are not
allowed in the classroom. You know, I don't know what all these acronyms
mean but I had everyone of them growing up in school, still have them and
I don't need drugs.

Love it!!! No wonder you pegged Krause as a non boating, lying, uneducated
simpleton so easily, well done:-)


I notice at the universities locally, they are separating the Asian
students from the domestic students. The Asians are embarrassing the
domestic students. Asians never had summers off, never had ADD, never
needed drugs, never were forced to give up the play time to sell
chocolate bars. Any money earned after school went to the parents and not
the teachers.

Hmmm I think I'd like to stress as strongly as I can; that the reason our
Asian students "on average" are doing so well is a cultural work ethic
thing, mostly pushed by parents (sometimes pushed too hard in my view) &
not that any race is inherently smarter nor dumber than the other. We've
had a couple of episodes here of recent years, where pass marks just were
not good enough & the students resorted to what can only be called
cheating & another university actually gave in to pressure & remarked
papers to satisfy parents. I think there are over the top pushy parents in
all things related to kids, schooling achievements are an obvious one by
gee it goes down to parent violence at kids sport, everything.

When I was young we had lots of post war Sthn European immigrants & the
almost exact same thing happened, as new "immigrants" the family had a
very high work ethic & they didn't accept any excuses from teachers or
their kids, school was to learn & that's what they did. Now those same
families are "assimilated" into our country & mostly invisible, so to as
the years go by this will happen to immigrants from most anywhere to
anywhere.

Of course an habitual liar like Krause?? time won't help.


And the teachers today are sending home political documentation that is
wrong, it promotes as you suggest the lefties and socialists etc etc and
it suggests it is in the best interests of the parents to vote according
to their recommendations as they suggest it is the best for the students.
Like a gun to their heads.

Yes this aspect is a real worry & I honestly think it's damaging society
in general, here it's full on lefty brain washing & even very young
children come out with "blame the govt" or "blame evil business" taught
mantras from the school system. They're too young to even wonder how
they'll live their lives if "business" people stopped risking "their"
money to provide jobs to others so those same others can abuse them for
their efforts.


Just about every year, I notice also in this social education system, a
rotating strike just before examination time. Now the poor students who
happen to be stuck at the school with the strike gives up their year. Or
simply is given the credit yet falls far behind. This is something that I
have never experienced in any other part of the world.

Yep these scum labour organisations work together world wide, if they find
a standover tactic that works in one country they quickly transplant it to
another, they care for nothing but their own power at the expense of
others, including their own members.

Almost single handedly they've wrecked the education systems in western
countries, the once great US manufacturing sector, now all that's left is
retailing & it seems they're intent on destroying even that.


To the original caller, ya go ahead and take the students out of the
bureaucracy and I am sure they will receive better training from
themselves or parents. Go to the school, ask for the syllabi for the year
and I know you can do a better job than the teachers do. It appears
teachers today are glorified day care workers, right up until the time of
university.

Most systems will supply a correspondence course, send out or give online
the material, the tests, even some extra assistance if things get rocky
(little joke there for a boating trip).

Have you noticed the way Krause thinks the merits or otherwise of what you
say is all about "where you come from" ??? He really is the lowest of the
low & all on his own drops that common denominator into the sewer.


K









"K. Smith" wrote in message
...

Tuuk wrote:

Interesting,,, lets parse it,,,





Yeah Tuuk; here there was a while ago some competition or test to find
the best school kid at something or another in the country & the prize
was really big bucks for the winners school, it all got a bit
embarrassing when the winner was a home educated correspondence girl.
(her & her mum were on the telly & mum was well chuffed I can tell you)



Yes, I will agree with you there, for certain there will be better more
qualified and successful educators done one on one at home, with say the
parent who cares. At the local public schools there is a problem. I see
western students at university who cannot read. Even private
universities do not motivate enough or produce a product that can
compete in the real world.



Yes we have the same thing here, the Fed govt is trying to make funding
dependent upon schools at least meeting minimum benchmarks ( & they are
sad minimums:-)) but the teachers unions backed by lefty state
administrations are fighting it tooth & nail.



The "east" as you say don't get educated because they outright don't
educate their children. I'd suggest they are hundreds of years behind
the west on account of it, if they did educate their kids we might not
have had to suffer 911 nor live in constant apprehension of another.




No, not at all, I am talking the east such as the Asian countries, the
ones that are economically exploding. Of couse there are poor countries
everywhere, and middle east and the islamic or muslims teach the wrong
things. That is why they attacked on 911. Those schools focus so much on
the koran, teaching to hate non muslims, hating non islam and they do
not spend enough time on the maths and sciences etc. When they become 20
years old and ready to compete in the workplace, they fail and see
others so wealthy then the jealousy, rage, anger, and they rebel against
the apex.

I know I'll get into trouble for saying this but here & I suspect there
it's not much better:-) The unionised teachers take peoples' kids & fill
them full of lefty political stuff at the expense of real teaching. Yes
accepted they need more than an academic education, but that's not for
loony left teachers unions to decide, it's the unwritten, unannounced
political brainwashing curriculum the teachers run that produces
otherwise bright kids at university who can't bloody read nor do basic
maths.


The countries where I have attended universities in the west and east,,
I know that the east uncontestably does a better job. Where there is a
big difference is the costs and greed. Tuitions especially but one thing
that shocked me was text books. For example, in a university in
Thailand, an economics book, same edition, same publisher as the west,
simply different language goes for about 3.00 U.S. and here about 145.00
U.S. Same book. The learning environment is much different also.
Classroom sizes are small (student) and the teachers actually give a
dam, I mean no cell phones, no walking in or out late, all uniforms,
always homework done. Here it is a joke, and here you will graduate with
honors relatively easy, there you earn it.



Yep & around here especially many the outstanding kids are of Asian
origin & invariably from private non unionised schools, it's a sad thing
to see happening. Of course the left say crazy things like "see lets take
their govt. funds (few that there are for private schools anyway) because
their students' good results mean they don't need it".

I'm sure you've had the same racist joke there, (prior apologies for any
offense) but as regards the homework part, it's about right;

Q: how do you know if your house has been robbed by a Vietnamese???
A: your dog is gone & your homework's done.






Here the teachers are fully unionised & so your kid not only comes out
poorly educated to the lowest common denominator but with a full on
left leaning cry baby attitude:-) You're right it takes union educated
kids till they're 25 to find out how the world really is & recover.
Some of the really stupid ones never do recover & they become union
employees or used car salesmen then used boat salesmen. Sad really,
wasted lives but some grace I guess; they're so stupid they don't even
realise it.



I couldn't agree with you more there,,,






My comment is if this bloke genuinely cares for his kids (most all do,
well OK not Krause despite his recent lie to the contrary, has been
estranged from his forever, because they probably picked up their mum's
genes & stayed close with her when she got away from him, lucky hey??)
then this enquirer no matter how bad, can't do any worse for his boys
than the union teaching lefty brainwashing sessions.




I couldn't agree with you more there either,,, and I didn't know that
about Harry,, I might have guessed that and definatly not surprised and
that proves my point to him undisputably. Black and white.

The other day he claimed to have a happy relationship with his kids; yet
years ago here he told us all what monsters his ex wife (choice Krause
lines about the ex wife as you can imagine) & kids were & that he hadn't
seen them in years, trouble with liars they just make it up as they go
along:-)


But to better answer the caller's question, yes with proper resources,
motivation and training a student could learn more in that environment.
What they might miss would be the public speaking opportunities, team
work, friendships, but at their age, they could easily go one on one
with the computer and yes learn more than at a public school.

I guess so but 12 mths shouldn't do that much harm even if it's a total
loss education wise, but if it works out it could be the making of the
boys.

I'm not for a minute suggesting they're likely to become Rhodes scholars
via correspondence internet, but I'd hope with the parents help they
shouldn't fall behind.


K








K



"Tuuk" wrote in message
. ..



Another reason why the east excels ,,, let your children learn in a
proper learning environment. I know that is tough to do in the west,,
tough to find a good one. But when they become 25 years old and need
to compete for a job, they may get stuck looking for the union job
like Harry did. 17% of Americans are forced to unionize, not much
market value.















"K. Smith" wrote in message
...



Tamaroak wrote:



My bride and I are considering taking a year off and doing the
Great Circle Route/Loop, a mere 5000 miles around the east coast,
the Erie Canal and the Tenn-Tom. We would take our boys who will be
14 and 15 and home schooling them on the boat, using a prepared
curriculum and a satellite Internet connection.

Does anyone out there have any experience in this type of
adventure?

Capt. Jeff

Great idea!!! Your boys will love it & it'll be the best time of all
your lives.

In my cruising days (too long ago now:-() we oft came across people
with their kids from babies on up, I've had my grandkids on board
the current boat for weeks at a time, one since 11 days old.

The older kids really become part of the whole boating adventure &
you'll find they grow up & mature much quicker & better than their
bored at home friends.

Give them lots of boat responsibility (but stay safe of course:-)) &
room, they'll be meeting all sorts along the way which is what the
young need to experience.

Here downunder they use a correspondence system with internet (used
to be HF radio) even at home kids use it in the outback, so there's
no down side to their education indeed if you &/or your partner get
involved the whole family's education will improve:-)

I'm sure your boys are angels & you'd never have anything to worry
about in their teen years, just as all parents believe;-) but alas
these days it seems all sorts of new temptations, risks & pitfalls
await them. Being with you as a family will help guide them through
& out the other side, it seems there's only about 12 mths they need
to get through, those that do are fine for life with a good attitude
& education, those that don't have a lesser life & it seems to
remain thus right to the end.

Have a great time & enjoy showing your boys that being a responsible
adult doesn't mean you're near dead & you can still have an exciting
adventu-)


K

On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:51:54 -0500, "Paul Schilter"
paulschilter@comcast dot net wrote:

Tuuk,
From what I've read, home schooler's excel above the other students. I'm
sure some parents are better at this than others but the figures said they
for the most part are doing very well.
Paul

I retired from teaching in the public system 18 months ago. I am
fully supportive of home schooling. Too many parents treat public
education as cheap babysitting.

But under no circumstances should home schoolers ask for public
support in the form of resources or assistance from the public system.
If you have principles, stick with them.

"Jack Dale" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:51:54 -0500, "Paul Schilter"
paulschilter@comcast dot net wrote:

Tuuk,
From what I've read, home schooler's excel above the other students.
I'm
sure some parents are better at this than others but the figures said they
for the most part are doing very well.
Paul

I retired from teaching in the public system 18 months ago. I am
fully supportive of home schooling. Too many parents treat public
education as cheap babysitting.

But under no circumstances should home schoolers ask for public
support in the form of resources or assistance from the public system.
If you have principles, stick with them.

I presume, then, that you'll rebate what they paid in taxes toward that same
public system?

--Alan Gomes

"Jack Dale" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:51:54 -0500, "Paul Schilter"
paulschilter@comcast dot net wrote:

Tuuk,
From what I've read, home schooler's excel above the other students.
I'm
sure some parents are better at this than others but the figures said they
for the most part are doing very well.
Paul

I retired from teaching in the public system 18 months ago. I am
fully supportive of home schooling. Too many parents treat public
education as cheap babysitting.

But under no circumstances should home schoolers ask for public
support in the form of resources or assistance from the public system.
If you have principles, stick with them.

The principle of having paid for something (taxes), and getting at least a
tiny return on the investment.

"Greg" wrote in message
news:nXszd.634498$D%.194076@attbi_s51...

"Jack Dale" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:51:54 -0500, "Paul Schilter"
paulschilter@comcast dot net wrote:

Tuuk,
From what I've read, home schooler's excel above the other students.
I'm
sure some parents are better at this than others but the figures said
they
for the most part are doing very well.
Paul

I retired from teaching in the public system 18 months ago. I am
fully supportive of home schooling. Too many parents treat public
education as cheap babysitting.

But under no circumstances should home schoolers ask for public
support in the form of resources or assistance from the public system.
If you have principles, stick with them.

The principle of having paid for something (taxes), and getting at least a
tiny return on the investment.
Greg,
Precisely correct. Now, if they would let home schoolers opt out of paying
into the system then I would agree that they should not seek help from it.

--AG

Jack Dale wrote:
On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:51:54 -0500, "Paul Schilter"
paulschilter@comcast dot net wrote:


Tuuk,
From what I've read, home schooler's excel above the other students. I'm
sure some parents are better at this than others but the figures said they
for the most part are doing very well.
Paul


I retired from teaching in the public system 18 months ago. I am
fully supportive of home schooling. Too many parents treat public
education as cheap babysitting.

But under no circumstances should home schoolers ask for public
support in the form of resources or assistance from the public system.
If you have principles, stick with them.

Gee Jack; you see you are or at least were, part of the problem; try to
understand teachers are just govt. employees paid to teach academic
subjects. Your personal private views are your personal private views be
they tax or war or whatever, at work with other peoples' impressionable
kids keep them to yourself.

All tax payers are entitled to have their share of the funds for
educating their children no matter how they choose to achieve it
correspondence, private topped up with extra funds or the public system.
It's all about free choice not union mandated brain washing.

K

There are many boaters with children onboard, the children always seem more
mature and capable than others.
I am wondering if the kids would stay more interested in a Bahamas trip than
a US trip. There is some stretches of open water, but you can do the whole
country without any sections over 50 miles.
In the US, you can get wireless high speed internet from cell phone
companies. Satellite internet has so few minutes/$ that it is not practical
for web surfing. (Globalstar is $100/month for 400 minutes) That said, of
all the kids I have met aboard, none had onboard internet.
If you have not found your boat yet, stay away from planing hull
powerboats, the fuel use is massive (MPG=.5 to 1 MPG), then the resulting
range is short. Some gas powered 30' boats have a total range of only 70
miles!
Lee Haefele
Nauticat 33 Motorsailer, Alesto, currently anchored Salinas, PR
"K. Smith" wrote in message
...
Jack Dale wrote:
On Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:51:54 -0500, "Paul Schilter"
paulschilter@comcast dot net wrote:


Tuuk,
From what I've read, home schooler's excel above the other students.
I'm sure some parents are better at this than others but the figures
said they for the most part are doing very well.
Paul

Why not? We paid our taxes for that service already? Why shouldn't home
schoolers get some of what they paid for?

--


Keith
__
Some people are like Slinkies: not really good for anything, but you still
can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.

"Jack Dale" wrote in message
...

But under no circumstances should home schoolers ask for public
support in the form of resources or assistance from the public system.
If you have principles, stick with them.

Tuuk wrote:

Are you nuts??

Ah...mirror, morror anyone?

See, it is educators like you that are the reason why our students here in
the west are failing or far behind students globally.

No, it is lack of adequate parenting that causes the majority of the
problem, IMO. You apparently think the existence of the public school
system is a valid basis on which parents can abdicate responsibility for
child rearing. Home education *in addition to* that provided by the
public, or private, education system, has *always* been a prerequiste
for first rate education. West or East.

And it is morons like
Harry who are the reason why our workers are failing or far behind
employment globally. Are you and harry brothers?

I didn't see a "Harry" in the thread, but ad hominem vitriol as
certainly pursuasive in informed debate...

Jack,, Give your head a shake.

"Physician, heal thyself"

Don't tell me Jack,, you were an economics professor?? lol,,

Parents should have better control on who is teaching their children, they
should see a police record, employment record (if there is one) resume, and
be allowed to interview the teachers who have influence on their children.
They do in many other countries,,, lol,,, and their students do circles
around the western student.

Yes, and parent should get involved (as in PARTICIPATE, not spectate) in
their kids education! Few parents I encounter even know the names of
their children's teachers. Schools, and school boards, respond to the
demands of the community (read 'parents'), and unfortunately, those
demands are too often for a baby-sitting service that passes children
from grade to grade irrespective of their level of attainment. Let me
ask you a couple of questions:

1. Do you think teachers (or professors for that matter) *like* to
reward students for substandard performance?
2. Do you think teachers (or professors for that matter) *like* to to
have students so disruptive that the learning environment for other
students is degraded, without having the disciplinary tools available to
address, or even ameliorate, the situation (small clue here...parents
don't *like* other people to discipline their unruly progeny)?
3. Do you think the responsibility for teaching respect, courtesy, and
discipline lies with the public school teacher (i.e. instead of with the
parents, as it has been since time immemorial)?

If you answered "yes" to any of those questions, I'll be happy to mail
you a quarter should you like to purchase a clue.


Yes,, thanks for proving my point anyway there Jack,,, you teachers have
failed both the taxpayer and the student and their future here in the west.

Once again, you miss the point. Parents have the responsibility for
preparing their children *for* school, monitoring their performance *at*
school (P.T.A., parent-teacher conferences, etc.), and changing the
educational system when it isn't functioning properly. We live in a
democracy in the US, and inherent in the democratic process is both
personal and social responsibility. Vote out the school board, the
system *will* change. Sit back and carp on newsgroups on the other hand,
and...oh, that's right, nothing happens. Get it?


You know that the west is heading for third world status,, they just said so
on the news as over 95% of all Christmas presents purchased in the west were
manufactured offshore. Ever heard of the trade deficit?

Ever heard of greed? We (in the US) live in the short term. We
artifically elevate our standard of living (on the cheap labor of third
world countries, to a large extent) without thought to long term
consequences. That is a serious social/cultural issue we certainly need
to address.

Your postulate, however, that (and I'm paraphrasing of course) if our
children were better educated, *we* would be making the clothes, shoes,
toys, TV's, VCR's, DVD players, etc. that comprise the bulk of that
"95%", is ludicrous on its face. These are produced by unskilled, or
semi-skilled workers (as commonly defined), where the cost per unit
rules the day (almost entirely a function of living standard), NOT the
education level of the workforce.

Sorry to snatch the easy bone from your jaws, but no, I'm not a teacher
(never have been, not married to one). I was, however, lucky enough to
have been raised by parents and grandparents who believed in education,
and their rearing techniques reflected it. So I know adequate parenting
when I see it, even seeing so rarely.

And to those whining about a tax rebate for home schooling, how about
for those who have no children? Shall I get a rebate for the 30 years
I've been paying property taxes for schools I'm not using? Or the roads
*I* don't personally drive on, or the Fire Department *I've* never
personally used, or...get the point? Public education, as with all
social services, benefits *society as a whole* when done properly. We
all reap the benefits, we all pay the costs. We all have a
responsibility to get out and do something when it's not done properly.
Look at voter turnout and tell me how involved people are in society.

Keith Hughes

I have met (US and other) families in the Philippines and the Pacific
Islands who have home schooled out of necessity (lack of comprehensive
western education). We considered it while living in the Philippines for 8
years with 3 school age children but opted for an international school
(another story).

More recently I had friends who set off to the So. Pacific with a
preschooler, with plans to use the Calvet School course material. However,
prior to their departure, I observed that this child was going to be a hand
full. I hesitate to use the term "soiled" but IMHO, could have used a firm
hand in a structured school enviornment. The parents had yet to demonstrate
this "firm hand".

In the subsequent years I read many emails that express their frustration in
dealing with this childs schooling.. Since I haven't heard of this problems
in the last year, I'm assuming (if I should) that the problems have been
resolved.

Jeff, the age of your sons is not the ideal age for removing them from their
"good ole school days" routine and a great deal will depend upon how
excepting they are of your plans. And how involved. I know you have cruised
with them for the past couple of summers and can only assume that they
enjoyed this more than they might have enjoy the routine summer activities
back home.

Having met you a couple years ago, I was left with the impression that you
would make an excellent mentor and teacher and I have no doubt that all
would benefit from your proposed adventure.

Best regards (and hope to share a few anchorages this summer).

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

Tamaroak wrote:

My bride and I are considering taking a year off and doing the Great
Circle Route/Loop, a mere 5000 miles around the east coast, the Erie
Canal and the Tenn-Tom. We would take our boys who will be 14 and 15 and
home schooling them on the boat, using a prepared curriculum and a
satellite Internet connection.

Does anyone out there have any experience in this type of adventure?

I have not done this myself. I have observed many parents who have
done so in the course of living on the boat.

There's a program on TV about a dentist from Canada who took his
children on a circumnavigation (boat was called Ocean Wanderer and
that's the name of the series) starting when they were small. One
of them has become a professional golfer I believe, and the other one
has gone back to sea on a bigger boat because she thought she was too
young to really appreciate the initial part of the trip. They had
some problem with the boy (both children adopted) because he wasn't
very interested in schooling. Part of it I think was that the mom was
unsure of herself in this venue. It's kind of a hokey show IMHO, but
some of it is interesting.

I've met another couple from Canada who did a year on the boat - they
are teachers and took a year's sabbatical. They had two boys about
the ages of yours - one in middle school and one in 9th grade. The
journal of their trip on Carellen is here.
http://www.angelfire.com/sd/humpboattrip/
We met them in the Dismal Swamp
http://www.angelfire.com/sd/humpboattrip/ where the bow of our boat is
just visible on the left of their boat, and again in Oriental and then
again in St. Augustine.

There was a couple with a boat like ours (Jean Marie) that did a
circumnavigation with girls that were 10 and 14 and both of them
seemed to have turned out well.

Friends of mine who both taught middle school (and were very good
teachers BTW) until they retired early due to the restrictive policies
no child left behind, and lack of support for the teachers or any
possibility of discipline for the kids who did and said just exactly
what they wanted, took their grandchild down to the Bahamas with them
(she was living with them full time as her mom had no time for her)
last winter, and after they got back, she did better in school than
she has ever done before. They are down in Florida again this year.

I also saw some live-aboard kids in Marathon when we were there last
winter, The girls seem to miss the social life of school. Some of
them went to a local school while they were living at the dock for
several months.



grandma Rosalie

wherever there is education...its the parents, not the schools that
make a difference.......some folks love to have someone to pile
on blame...so, why not select the school system? they should take a
look at themselves 1st...imho.....

And to those whining about a tax rebate for home schooling, how about for
those who have no children? Shall I get a rebate for the 30 years I've
been paying property taxes for schools I'm not using? Or the roads *I*
don't personally drive on, or the Fire Department *I've* never personally
used, or...get the point? Public education, as with all social services,
benefits *society as a whole* when done properly. We all reap the
benefits, we all pay the costs. We all have a responsibility to get out
and do something when it's not done properly. Look at voter turnout and
tell me how involved people are in society.

Keith Hughes

Ummmm...in the context of the thread, the silly point was offered that home
schoolers should be "consistent" in their philosophy and not seek any
services from the public school system. Some of us pointed out that there is
no inconsistency in this at all, since those who home school pay into the
system through taxes and are entitled to get something out of it. Indeed,
whatever services a home schooling parent would receive is far less than
what has been paid in.

Now, even if there were a "rebate" for home schooling, that money would be
used to eduate the children in question, though outside of the public
system. This would still provide the alleged societal benefit you are
touting above. Unless, of course, the real issue isn't whether children
receive an education but whether it is the government doing it?

BTW: My wife is a public school teacher in So. California. She's a great
teacher but it's a really crappy system--massively top heavy bureaucracy,
wasteful, poorly run, etc. Granting that we cannot abolish the public
education system entirely (my personal preference), we support vouchers as a
good compromise. And as for the teacher's union, we got her out of that
years ago (though we are obligated to pay a relatively small amount of dues
that goes to the collective bargaining portion, but nothing that goes to
support their political agenda).

--Alan Gomes

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 22:12:02 GMT, "Alan Gomes" said:

And as for the teacher's union, we got her out of that
years ago (though we are obligated to pay a relatively small amount of
dues
that goes to the collective bargaining portion, but nothing that goes to
support their political agenda).

You're fortunate. Unions have been doing everything they can to make sure
nobody knows about that required option.

Dave,
There's a great organization called the National Right to Work Association
that gives step-by-step instructions for how to get out of the teacher's
union and receive back a sizeable rebate in the dues. They are at
http://www.nrtw.org/. Using their materials we have helped several teachers
at my wife's school do the same.

It's too bad that we have to pay them anything at all. But at least we no
longer have to pay them the bulk of the dues, especially because that's the
part that they use to advance an agenda with which we are in 1000%
disagreement.
--Alan

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Alan Gomes wrote:

BTW: My wife is a public school teacher in So. California. She's a great
teacher but it's a really crappy system--massively top heavy bureaucracy,
wasteful, poorly run, etc. Granting that we cannot abolish the public
education system entirely (my personal preference), we support vouchers
as a good compromise. And as for the teacher's union, we got her out of
that years ago (though we are obligated to pay a relatively small amount
of dues that goes to the collective bargaining portion, but nothing that
goes to support their political agenda).

--Alan Gomes

If you and your wife had any integrity, she'd quit working for the public
school system altogether, and go to work for a private voucher system
school, where she could be hired and fired on a whim, earn about a third
to a half less, and, of course, not be a part of a teachers' retirement
system.

What do you say, Alan? If you are so opposed to public education, why are
you extracting benefits from it?

Harry,

The answer is quite simple, actually.

We wish that the system did not exist at all. But granting that it does, we
care about the kids in that system and wish to influence the kids for good.
My wife is an excellent teacher and does what she can to mitigate the
overall damage of the public school system, for the benefit of the kids.

As far as us "extracting benefits from it," my wife *works* for a them and
receives pay that she *earns.* Given the hours that she puts in it's no
gift, and they are not doing us any favors. With her level of education she
could definitely make more money doing something else, but *we* have decided
to benefit on the poor kids that are stuck within that system.

--Alan Gomes

Tamaroak wrote:
My bride and I are considering taking a year off and doing the Great
Circle Route/Loop, a mere 5000 miles around the east coast, the Erie
Canal and the Tenn-Tom. We would take our boys who will be 14 and 15 and
home schooling them on the boat, using a prepared curriculum and a
satellite Internet connection.

Does anyone out there have any experience in this type of adventure?

Capt. Jeff
1st...Happy Christmas whether you celebrate it or not, the sentiments I
send are good ones
2nd...my,my what a hornet's nest you've upturned

to the point, which many of the pointy-headed axe-grinders in this
thread seem to have missed (perhaps they've missed out on a good
publicly funded education and judging by some of the comments, they have!)
1. Home-schooling is a great alternative. You're going to give your
kids a once-in-a-lifetime experience
2. Contact your local school board and ask what they have to offer in
the way of distance education
3. If they have nothing, contact www.edu.gov.on.ca and see if there's
anything the Ontario government can offer you in the way of distance
education curriculum and/or credit. Quite a few foreign systems have
programs which offer the Ontario curriculum with the opportunity to get
credit.
4. Given the foregoing you are forewarned that the curriculum has been
created by a bunch of lazy, selfish, union scum (like my Masters
educated wife) who have no interest in the welfare of your child-at
least according to the cognoscenti who have responded to your thread-
but be that as it may, it is a good option you can investigate.

Go for it!

Alan, your middle name must be "Tuna". Harry is an old troller with nothing
better to do all day but troll for "Tuna". Ignore him.
Gordon

"Alan Gomes" wrote in message
news:E4Kzd.566802$wV.352492@attbi_s54...

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Alan Gomes wrote:

BTW: My wife is a public school teacher in So. California. She's a
great
teacher but it's a really crappy system--massively top heavy
bureaucracy,
wasteful, poorly run, etc. Granting that we cannot abolish the public
education system entirely (my personal preference), we support vouchers
as a good compromise. And as for the teacher's union, we got her out of
that years ago (though we are obligated to pay a relatively small
amount
of dues that goes to the collective bargaining portion, but nothing
that
goes to support their political agenda).

--Alan Gomes

If you and your wife had any integrity, she'd quit working for the
public
school system altogether, and go to work for a private voucher system
school, where she could be hired and fired on a whim, earn about a third
to a half less, and, of course, not be a part of a teachers' retirement
system.

What do you say, Alan? If you are so opposed to public education, why
are
you extracting benefits from it?

Harry,

The answer is quite simple, actually.

We wish that the system did not exist at all. But granting that it does,
we
care about the kids in that system and wish to influence the kids for
good.
My wife is an excellent teacher and does what she can to mitigate the
overall damage of the public school system, for the benefit of the kids.

As far as us "extracting benefits from it," my wife *works* for a them and
receives pay that she *earns.* Given the hours that she puts in it's no
gift, and they are not doing us any favors. With her level of education
she
could definitely make more money doing something else, but *we* have
decided
to benefit on the poor kids that are stuck within that system.

--Alan Gomes

"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...
Alan Gomes wrote:
"Harry Krause" wrote in message
...

Alan Gomes wrote:


BTW: My wife is a public school teacher in So. California. She's a great
teacher but it's a really crappy system--massively top heavy
bureaucracy, wasteful, poorly run, etc. Granting that we cannot abolish
the public education system entirely (my personal preference), we
support vouchers as a good compromise. And as for the teacher's union,
we got her out of that years ago (though we are obligated to pay a
relatively small amount of dues that goes to the collective bargaining
portion, but nothing that goes to support their political agenda).

--Alan Gomes

If you and your wife had any integrity, she'd quit working for the public
school system altogether, and go to work for a private voucher system
school, where she could be hired and fired on a whim, earn about a third
to a half less, and, of course, not be a part of a teachers' retirement
system.

What do you say, Alan? If you are so opposed to public education, why are
you extracting benefits from it?


Harry,

The answer is quite simple, actually.

We wish that the system did not exist at all. But granting that it does,
we care about the kids in that system and wish to influence the kids for
good. My wife is an excellent teacher and does what she can to mitigate
the overall damage of the public school system, for the benefit of the
kids.

As far as us "extracting benefits from it," my wife *works* for a them
and receives pay that she *earns.* Given the hours that she puts in it's
no gift, and they are not doing us any favors. With her level of
education she could definitely make more money doing something else, but
*we* have decided to benefit on the poor kids that are stuck within that
system.

--Alan Gomes

I suspect that your wife's pay and benefits are the result of labor
negotiations between the teachers' assn and the board of education. I'm
not saying she doesn't earn her pay, because I know how hard good teachers
work. But if it were not for that assn, your wife would be making a bit
more than wal-mart employees.

Sure. Whatever you say.
--AG

But under no circumstances should home schoolers ask for public
support in the form of resources or assistance from the public system.
If you have principles, stick with them.


We have lived in two school systems that have home school departments that you
can transfer to. Home schooling is a part of the system at least in some areas.
They are happy to work it out with you too. You just have to ask.


Dick

Leaving much (edited for brevity) of Keith's diatribe for context, my
comments at the end:

"Keith Hughes" wrote in message
...

Yes, and parent should get involved (as in PARTICIPATE, not spectate) in
their kids education! Few parents I encounter even know the names of
their children's teachers. Schools, and school boards, respond to the
demands of the community (read 'parents'), and unfortunately, those
demands are too often for a baby-sitting service that passes children
from grade to grade irrespective of their level of attainment.

Once again, you miss the point. Parents have the responsibility for
preparing their children *for* school, monitoring their performance *at*
school (P.T.A., parent-teacher conferences, etc.), and changing the
educational system when it isn't functioning properly. We live in a
democracy in the US, and inherent in the democratic process is both
personal and social responsibility. Vote out the school board, the
system *will* change. Sit back and carp on newsgroups on the other hand,
and...oh, that's right, nothing happens. Get it?

Sorry to snatch the easy bone from your jaws, but no, I'm not a teacher
(never have been, not married to one). I was, however, lucky enough to
have been raised by parents and grandparents who believed in education,
and their rearing techniques reflected it. So I know adequate parenting
when I see it, even seeing so rarely.

And to those whining about a tax rebate for home schooling, how about
for those who have no children? Shall I get a rebate for the 30 years
I've been paying property taxes for schools I'm not using? Or the roads
*I* don't personally drive on, or the Fire Department *I've* never
personally used, or...get the point? Public education, as with all
social services, benefits *society as a whole* when done properly. We
all reap the benefits, we all pay the costs. We all have a
responsibility to get out and do something when it's not done properly.
Look at voter turnout and tell me how involved people are in society.

Keith Hughes

Interesting you should say that. In our county, for a few years out of the
last several, the fastest growing in the country (read: infrastructure
challenges), 65 and over get exempted from the school portion of the
property taxes.

As that comprises about 90% of the property tax burden, and they then also
get a homestead exemption, doubled for 65, seniors in our county get to kick
back for a few years until they snuff it. If I'd have known that, I'd have
the technical owner of my home having registered for that privilege! (My
kids are long out of the system; I was very involved in their schooling and
activities, and didn't begrudge the taxes paid.)

(The technical owner part is that rather than take a deed, I did a contract
for deed. So, the original owner is still "owner of record" despite our
beneficial ownership. Because it's more appropriate at this time, I'll be
getting the deed this year - but I'm some way from qualifying for the break,
let alone that we're cutting the cord and leaving!)

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

Just a snippet from GMBs post here (BTW, Tom sends his regards):

There was a couple with a boat like ours (Jean Marie) that did a
circumnavigation with girls that were 10 and 14 and both of them
seemed to have turned out well.


The girls from Jean Marie have done radically more than "all right." I
can't begin to recite the accomplishments and differences between them and
the usual student - but I'm sure their dad and mom would happily expound.

They're a few boats down from us as they do a complete refit in Salt Creek
Marina, and I've had several opportunities to chat them up in the course of
going by.

Suffice it to say, if you're involved, caring and willing to put in the
work, kids who are home schooled - let alone in an international environment
where they have to create their own entertainment as well as learn by
osmosis - should easily outdistance conventionally schooled kids, and do it
on less than half the time, to boot (no waiting for the slowest, no
bureaucracy, no reviewing for the first 3 months to re-implant what was lost
over the summer, etc.).

L8R

Skip and Lydia, trying desperately to get the boat finished before money
and/or time runs out


--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

Mr. Gomes

Alan Gomes wrote:
And to those whining about a tax rebate for home schooling, how about for
those who have no children? Shall I get a rebate for the 30 years I've
been paying property taxes for schools I'm not using? Or the roads *I*
don't personally drive on, or the Fire Department *I've* never personally
used, or...get the point? Public education, as with all social services,
benefits *society as a whole* when done properly. We all reap the
benefits, we all pay the costs. We all have a responsibility to get out
and do something when it's not done properly. Look at voter turnout and
tell me how involved people are in society.

Keith Hughes


Ummmm...in the context of the thread, the silly point was offered that home
schoolers should be "consistent" in their philosophy and not seek any
services from the public school system.

'Silly' how exactly?

Some of us pointed out that there is
no inconsistency in this at all, since those who home school pay into the
system through taxes and are entitled to get something out of it.

Therein lies the fallacy. You are not entitled to "get something out of
it", you are entitled to *participate in* it. My wife and I, by virtue
of being childless, *cannot* get anything out of it, yet we support the
system equally along with the 'users'. You seem to be misconstruing the
purpose of a social program. The sufficiently affluent have always opted
out of social programs, yet they have always been required to support
them. The point is, *Society* has determined the structure and number of
the social systems it supports (nearly a truism), the purpose being to
advance the needs and goals of society as a whole, not to address
individual needs. By virtue of being part of society, we are all
required to support society.

Indeed,
whatever services a home schooling parent would receive is far less than
what has been paid in.

Again, your taxes support societal needs and desires. Save for sales
tax, there is no quid pro quo relative to taxation.

Now, even if there were a "rebate" for home schooling, that money would be
used to eduate the children in question, though outside of the public
system. This would still provide the alleged societal benefit you are
touting above.

To an extent. Also, to the extent that money is withdrawn from the
public system by those who, with voucher money, can afford high cost
private schools, the public system is further impoverished, and the
education of those left behind suffers accordingly. Even in a well run
system, there will be a large fixed overhead that is not proportional to
the number of students (e.g. facilities, maintenance, utilities,
administration, etc.). As dollars are withdrawn from the system, a
higher proportion of the available dollars goes to support this
overhead, and the dollars/student drops accordingly. A net loss for
society IMO.

Unless, of course, the real issue isn't whether children
receive an education but whether it is the government doing it?

It appears that your wife is 'doing it'. Is she the government? "The
Government" is merely a mental construct we use for convenience. It does
not exist as an entity. It is 'us', and as we nurture it, it is healthy
and productive, but as we neglect it, it grows weeds or lies fallow.

BTW: My wife is a public school teacher in So. California. She's a great
teacher but it's a really crappy system--massively top heavy bureaucracy,
wasteful, poorly run, etc.

There are a great many wonderful teachers out there. I'm glad your wife
is one of them. But the system will remain "massively top heavy
bureaucracy, wasteful, poorly run, etc." as long as people continue to
be mentally lazy and talk in terms of "they", or "them", or "the
guvumint", to conveniently divorce themselves from any personal
responsibility for either creating, or solving, the problem. Again, look
at the voter turnout in this country. Can we really expect parents that
are too lazy to even vote, to put adequate effort into rearing and
educating their children?

Granting that we cannot abolish the public
education system entirely (my personal preference), we support vouchers as a
good compromise.

Well, this is a basic matter of philosophy. Abolish the public system,
and only the affluent will be able to afford decent education. And I'm
not defending the performance of the extant public school system. It
*will* however, work well with parental participation. It happens in
*MANY* places.

As for vouchers, again, they benefit the affluent, but at the cost of
impoverishing the public system. AND it's another bureaucracy, AND it
will still require tax money, AND it will still disproportionately
disadvantage poor states/counties/municipalities unless federally
administered, etc. Hardly a panacea to my mind.

And I'm sure you'll easily find a great school that you can afford with
*only* the voucher money. One at which your wife would be happy
teaching...with the concomitant salary and benefits package of course.

And as for the teacher's union, we got her out of that
years ago (though we are obligated to pay a relatively small amount of dues
that goes to the collective bargaining portion, but nothing that goes to
support their political agenda).

Historically, labor unions have played an invaluable role in forming our
society, and establishing basic human rights (i.e. labor vs. servitude).
Laudable accomplishments. They have also been a source of graft and
corruption, often on a grand scale, and thus need policed just as does
the government. Given the history of union accomplishments, the right to
unionize should clearly be protected, IMO. The 'right to work' should
also be protected, IMO. Personally, I've never been in a union, and
detest the "union mentality", at least as stereo-typified (i.e. 'it aint
*my* job, call a ______[insert trade]'), it's stupid, wasteful, and
counterproductive.

Bottom line, if you don't want "the government" involved in education,
then stay away from *MY* tax dollars - they, like yours, support society
at large, and you don't get "line-item abdication" for societal
responsibilities. You want to use private schools, great. You want to
home school, great. I have no problem with either. But *IF* tax dollars
are used for education, they should be used for the maximum benefit to
the maximum number of students, irrespective of socioeconomic status.
Vouchers don't do that. A reorganization of how public education is
funded, administered, and evaluated could. But it would be a lot more
work, and lacking sufficient motivation (i.e. angry voters), congress,
legislatures, and school boards aren't going to do it.

Keith Hughes

Ok, Keith. You win. I'm convinced. The public school system produces such a
massive societal benefit that no amount of taxation to support it is
excessive. Without it we'd have a society of kids who could not read or
write and who are in general functionally illiterate, who could not do
simple math, and who had no knowledge of world history or even of the great
books of western civilization.

Oh, wait! That's what we presently have *with* the public school system.
Quick! Someone raise my property taxes so we can throw some more money at
it!

Well, it's been fun playing. Gotta get back to life beyond usenet. So go
ahead and have the last word and I'll see you around sometime--maybe on the
water. (A feeble attempt at getting back to something sailing related
here....)

--Alan

"Skip Gundlach" skipgundlach sez use my name at earthlink dot
fishcatcher (net) - with apologies for the spamtrap wrote:

Just a snippet from GMBs post here (BTW, Tom sends his regards):

There was a couple with a boat like ours (Jean Marie) that did a
circumnavigation with girls that were 10 and 14 and both of them
seemed to have turned out well.

The girls from Jean Marie have done radically more than "all right." I
can't begin to recite the accomplishments and differences between them and
the usual student - but I'm sure their dad and mom would happily expound.

I don't see or hear from Tom much anymore (I've only been to the
Florida west coast once recently and that was in 2001, and I met Tom
and Jean in person once at an SSCA meeting in 1999) and I didn't
remember off the top of my head exactly what the girls had done
academically or even what their ages were or whether they were 10 and
14 when they finished or when they started out. Glad to hear they are
all well.

They're a few boats down from us as they do a complete refit in Salt Creek
Marina, and I've had several opportunities to chat them up in the course of
going by.

Suffice it to say, if you're involved, caring and willing to put in the
work, kids who are home schooled - let alone in an international environment
where they have to create their own entertainment as well as learn by
osmosis - should easily outdistance conventionally schooled kids, and do it
on less than half the time, to boot (no waiting for the slowest, no
bureaucracy, no reviewing for the first 3 months to re-implant what was lost
over the summer, etc.).

L8R

Skip and Lydia, trying desperately to get the boat finished before money
and/or time runs out

We're in Miami Florida now by car. We aren't sailing down the ICW for
awhile - Bob feels it is too stressful and there isn't enough chance
for actually sailing down here.

grandma Rosalie

On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 17:25:46 -0500, Matt Colie
wrote:


Would I subject two boys to this - in a heartbeat. They will be set in
an experience that they will able to draw on for a lifetime. The people
that they might not get along with aren't worth getting along with anyway.

Well said. I have a three year old son and my wife and I plan to world
cruise for five or more years starting in '08 when he will be seven. I
arrived in public school at age five able to read and count at about
the grade two level (at that time of 1966). I was bored out of my
skull in school and yet because the local principal didn't approve of
jumping grades I had to tough it out. It's said that kids who jump
grades seem socially inept because of their small size and so on. What
isn't considered is that the boredom of facing zero challenges tends
to make little age-appropriate troublemakers...thus I was the
brightest kid in detention until I learned the sort of base cunning
that will deceive a public-school teacher.

I would have been better off with an assignment list, a library card
and occasional appointments with a teaching mentor. I realize not all
kids fit this mold, but self-study on a boat is looking better all the
time.

R.

Harry Krause wrote:

Alan Gomes wrote:
Ok, Keith. You win. I'm convinced. The public school system produces such a
massive societal benefit that no amount of taxation to support it is
excessive. Without it we'd have a society of kids who could not read or
write and who are in general functionally illiterate, who could not do
simple math, and who had no knowledge of world history or even of the great
books of western civilization.

Oh, wait! That's what we presently have *with* the public school system.
Quick! Someone raise my property taxes so we can throw some more money at
it!
snip

You might have a bit of credibility on this issue if your wife were not
teaching in the public schools and drawing benefits from doing so.

I was a teacher and so was my husband. We got out of teaching and
took LOWER paying jobs because teachers are treated so poorly by the
administration. That's where you should have your beef. Not with the
folks on the line.

The teacher's salaries were negotiated by the union rep, but they did
it for all the teachers whether they belonged to the union or not. It
wasn't mandatory.

I really regretted leaving teaching because it was something I really
wanted to do. But not enough to let them have me teach math, which I
was certified for but horrible at (I actually took pre-calculus in
college and passed it with a B, and then the following year took an
exam to see if I could take calculus and failed it. My high school
daughter took it with me and passed.)

And in my husband's case although he was certified to teach physics,
chemistry, math and general science (he is an engineer), he told the
powers that be that he did not believe he was qualified to teach
chemistry. They not only assigned him to teach Chem II, but also told
the local community college that he would be glad to teach their Chem
labs.


Last week, a "Beltway Bandit" contractor I know offered me a subcontract
in connection with a government agency involved in aspects of "Homeland
Security." The project involved researching and writing a number of
manuals and other instructional materials. I have the proper clearance.
I turned him down. The work was "political" in terms of inclusion of
materials and levels of approval.

I turned the work down. There is nothing I would do to help the Bush
administration, directly or indirectly.

grandma Rosalie

Tamaroak wrote:
My bride and I are considering taking a year off and doing the Great
Circle Route/Loop, a mere 5000 miles around the east coast, the Erie
Canal and the Tenn-Tom. We would take our boys who will be 14 and 15
and
home schooling them on the boat, using a prepared curriculum and a
satellite Internet connection.

Does anyone out there have any experience in this type of adventure?

Capt. Jeff

Without getting bogged down in the school-vs.-homeschool argument, I'll
just add my $.02. We started homeschooling our kids a couple of years
ago. We haven't set sail yet; but we've been doing a lot of
RV-around-the-US road travelling. It's wonderful. Our kids are
currently 12 and 10.

Rather than recommend a curriculum, I'm gonna recommend that you look
into unschooling. Check unschooling.com and/or just google the term.
Especially in the context of travelling, where each day brings its own
knowledge to you, why be limited to a curriculum? School-at-home is
only slightly more freeing and educational than heading to P.S. 101
every day. Look into unschooling. You'll love it and your kids will
thank you every day of the future with their interesting, self-directed
lives.

Frank