Ending GPS?
 

Bush people announce they may end GPS.

On 16 Dec 2004 08:07:22 -0800, wrote:

Bush people announce they may end GPS.


I am not sure where this is coming from. You might want to read "U.S.
Space-Based Positioning, Navigation, and Timing Policy"

http://www.ostp.gov/html/FactSheetSP...TIONTIMING.pdf

I skimmed it. The following statement seems to indicate a contrary
direction to the one you posted.

"The United States must continue to improve and maintain the Global
Positioning System, augmentations, and backup capabilities to meet
growing national, homeland, and economic security requirements, for
civil requirements, and to meet commercial and scientific demands."

There was also a joint Russian-American release:

"Both sides reiterated their commitment to continuing these talks and
reaffirmed that the United States and the Russian Federation intend to
continue to provide the GPS and GLONASS civil signals appropriate for
commercial, scientific and safety of life use on a continuous,
worldwide basis, free of direct user fees."

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2004/39748.htm

Actually thanks for the posting - it got me to search out who is
responsible for GPS.

Jack

__________________________________________________
Jack Dale
Swiftsure Sailing Academy
Director/ISPA and CYA Instructor
http://www.swiftsuresailing.com
__________________________________________________

wrote:
Bush people announce they may end GPS.


No they didn't. They announced plans for temporarily shutting down parts
of it in case of an emergency. (Something they've always been able to
do.) They're also going to make the system more resistant to jamming.
They're calling it "critical infrastructure". Where did you get they
idea that they were going to end it?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ing_satellites

--
The email address above is a spam trap. Don't expect a response.
Reach me using firstname at lastname dot net

Jack Dale wrote:
On 16 Dec 2004 08:07:22 -0800, wrote:

Bush people announce they may end GPS.


I am not sure where this is coming from. You might want to read
"U.S.
Space-Based Positioning, Navigation, and Timing Policy"


http://www.ostp.gov/html/FactSheetSP...TIONTIMING.pdf

I skimmed it. The following statement seems to indicate a contrary
direction to the one you posted.

"The United States must continue to improve and maintain the Global
Positioning System, augmentations, and backup capabilities to meet
growing national, homeland, and economic security requirements, for
civil requirements, and to meet commercial and scientific demands."

There was also a joint Russian-American release:

"Both sides reiterated their commitment to continuing these talks and
reaffirmed that the United States and the Russian Federation intend
to
continue to provide the GPS and GLONASS civil signals appropriate for
commercial, scientific and safety of life use on a continuous,
worldwide basis, free of direct user fees."

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2004/39748.htm

Actually thanks for the posting - it got me to search out who is
responsible for GPS.

Jack

__________________________________________________
Jack Dale
Swiftsure Sailing Academy
Director/ISPA and CYA Instructor
http://www.swiftsuresailing.com
__________________________________________________
What I read was on MSNBVC news this morning.

Have you any idea what "temporary" means in governmentees?

Subject: Ending GPS?
From:
Date: 12/16/2004 8:07 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: .com

Bush people announce they may end GPS.

Read the article again, slower this time

They're also going to make the system more resistant to jamming.

That's a lot of lip service. Realistic methods of making it more resistant
to jamming carry astronomical price tags.

Maybe this is just my own personal read, but doesn't this sound like
sabre-rattling at the EU's Magellan project more than anything else?
Especially since the initial test satellite is scheduled to be launched in
October.

And where has DGPS gone?

Amgine
SailWiki
http://wiki.saewyc.net

Nowhere does it say or even imply that GPS is to be stopped as implied by
the OP. The OP should have played his hand in rec.boats where politics are
the main topic.


Hey! This was supposed to degenerate into a sextant flamewar, not a
political flamewar! Didn't you get the schedule?
;-)


--
The email address above is a spam trap. Don't expect a response.
Reach me using firstname at lastname dot net

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:15:56 -0500, "Amgine"
wrote:

Maybe this is just my own personal read, but doesn't this sound like
sabre-rattling at the EU's Magellan project more than anything else?
Especially since the initial test satellite is scheduled to be launched in
October.

And where has DGPS gone?

Actually, Magellan is the best guarantee of GPS continuity. It keeps
political pressure on the US to keep it going, even if GLONASS fizzles
out.

Most sailors don't need DGPS with WAAS working and SA not. But, if you
have a DBR it will still do what it always did AFIK, with the same CG
beacons.

I haven't bothered to wire mine up in recent years.





Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC

Let's Put the XXX back in Xmas

Jack,

Actually it was Al Gore.......okay, just kidding! (couldn't resist) :-)

Paul ----------actually a Democrat, who says we don't have a sense of humor
? :-)


"Jack Dale" wrote in message
...

snipped

Actually thanks for the posting - it got me to search out who is
responsible for GPS.

Jack
snipped

"Amgine" wrote in message
lkaboutboats.com...
Maybe this is just my own personal read, but doesn't this sound like
sabre-rattling at the EU's Magellan project more than anything else?
Especially since the initial test satellite is scheduled to be launched in
October.

And where has DGPS gone?

It has been pretty much replaced by WAAS. I wouldn;t be surprised if they
discontinued DGPS in the near future. I still use mine but I would get a
WAAS
in a second if/when DGPS goes away.

Amgine
SailWiki
http://wiki.saewyc.net

Shutting down GPS for other than brief moments would be such a
public and economic hazard, I doubt if it will ever happen unless
some large danger existed.

Doug

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:42:29 -0500, JGS jgs123@comcast^dot^net
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:06:43 GMT, wrote:

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:50:37 -0500, JGS jgs123@comcast^dot^net
wrote:

On 16 Dec 2004 08:07:22 -0800, wrote:

Bush people announce they may end GPS.

Get your facts straight. Sounds like you are putting a partisan twist to
it.


He is, indeed spinning it, but then, so are you.

The USGIC is a paid lobby in Washington that is happy that it got some
of the things that it wanted included in the new policy. The USGIC,
however doesn't mention the "other" part of the policy that isn't
concerened with their narrow commercial interests.


So what is the "big downside"? I have no problems with the selected
shutting
down of GPS in localized areas in the event of a national emergency. Heck,
we grounded all commercial and private aircraft flight after 9/11. We
lived
through that.

I believe the safety of the citizens of this country takes precedence over
commercial interests or hobbies. That is what I got out of reading the
document, "while the administration realizes the economic impact of
shutting
down GPS in selected areas, the safety of the people comes first". Nothing
wrong with that.


The problem comes in because the government (notice I'm not saying
Right or Left, Democrat or Republican) has made a habit of
understating what it is actually going to do. Or, saying one thing and
then doing something quite different. They say it will only happen
under extreme circumstances in limited areas, but no one who has been
alive and paying attention for the last 40 or 50 years will believe
that whopper.

Nowhere does it say or even imply that GPS is to be stopped as implied by
the OP.

I agree that the subject line of the post was quite misleading. That
doesn't change my evaluation of the real issue one bit.

BB

Suggest you take your concerns and attitude to a different newsgroup
where fiction and conspiracy are more welcome.
It has no place here since the GPS termination is not based in fact.

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 16:09:18 -0500, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

Shutting down GPS for other than brief moments would be such a
public and economic hazard, I doubt if it will ever happen unless
some large danger existed.

Doug


Our government seems to have no compunction about declaring immediate and
grave
dangers where none exists, especially if there is money to be made for
associates.

BB

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 13:50:18 -0500, Jeff Morris
wrote:

wrote:
Have you any idea what "temporary" means in governmentees?


Have you any idea how dependent some applications have become on GPS?

OffStar? g

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 19:50:29 GMT, Cindy Ballreich
wrote:


Hey! This was supposed to degenerate into a sextant flamewar, not a
political flamewar! Didn't you get the schedule?

We just HAD a sextant flamewar, didn't we? I believe it can be found
just inside this cocked hat here...

R.

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 21:57:25 -0500, DSK wrote:

Yep. We're switching over to faith-based navigation ;)

God Is My Co-Pilot. No, Really.

Yep. We're switching over to faith-based navigation ;)


rhys wrote:
God Is My Co-Pilot. No, Really.


Of course.

After all, if He can move mountains and shape continents, then surely
He'll be understanding about shifting those little rocks out of our way...

DSK

Now I understand. You are another JAXite.

wrote in message
...
On 17 Dec 2004 10:36:05 -0600, Dave wrote:

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 19:59:06 GMT, said:

no one who has been
alive and paying attention for the last 40 or 50 years will believe
that whopper.

Take it back to alt.sailing.asa, Bill. Please don't pollute another group.


Well, I know one person who hasn't been paying attention! Dopey Dave
the goose stepping fascist!

BB

I think by definition, something that carries an astronomical price tag
is not realistic :)

"Brien Alkire" wrote in message
...
They're also going to make the system more resistant to jamming.

That's a lot of lip service. Realistic methods of making it more
resistant
to jamming carry astronomical price tags.

On rhys wrote:
Cindy Ballreich wrote:
Hey! This was supposed to degenerate into a
sextant flamewar, not a political flamewar!
Didn't you get the schedule?

We just HAD a sextant flamewar, didn't we? I
believe it can be found just inside this
cocked hat here...

I'm not up to date... so is LORAN dead yet?

--
John R. Campbell Speaker to Machines soup at tampabay dot rr dot com
"Grace is sufficient so Joy was let go." - Heather L. Campbell
"Faith manages ... even though she didn't get promoted" - me
Why OS X? Because making Unix user-friendly was easier than debugging Windows

Actually WAAS is DGPS...Jim

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...

"Amgine" wrote in message
lkaboutboats.com...
Maybe this is just my own personal read, but doesn't this sound like
sabre-rattling at the EU's Magellan project more than anything else?
Especially since the initial test satellite is scheduled to be launched
in
October.

And where has DGPS gone?

It has been pretty much replaced by WAAS. I wouldn;t be surprised if they
discontinued DGPS in the near future. I still use mine but I would get a
WAAS
in a second if/when DGPS goes away.

Amgine
SailWiki
http://wiki.saewyc.net

No it isn't.

"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:paPwd.83$iD.50@fed1read05...
Actually WAAS is DGPS...Jim

"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...

"Amgine" wrote in message
lkaboutboats.com...
Maybe this is just my own personal read, but doesn't this sound like
sabre-rattling at the EU's Magellan project more than anything else?
Especially since the initial test satellite is scheduled to be launched
in
October.

And where has DGPS gone?

It has been pretty much replaced by WAAS. I wouldn;t be surprised if they
discontinued DGPS in the near future. I still use mine but I would get a
WAAS
in a second if/when DGPS goes away.

Amgine
SailWiki
http://wiki.saewyc.net

In article paPwd.83$iD.50@fed1read05,
"Jim Donohue" wrote:

Actually WAAS is DGPS...Jim

Bzzzt Wrong answer. Would you like to try for what is behind Door #3?

WAAS is a SAT based Service, whereas DGPS is a MF Terrestrial based
Service. Two different things that try to correct the same GPS
accuracy.


Me

On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 01:07:44 GMT, (John
R. Campbell) wrote:

On rhys wrote:
Cindy Ballreich wrote:
Hey! This was supposed to degenerate into a
sextant flamewar, not a political flamewar!
Didn't you get the schedule?

We just HAD a sextant flamewar, didn't we? I
believe it can be found just inside this
cocked hat here...

I'm not up to date... so is LORAN dead yet?

No, it isn't, and our "show and share" cabinet in the clubhouse for
orphaned gear has a couple of free LORAN rigs for the taking. The
merits of LORAN aside (and I believe them to be considerable), people
are voting for GPS with their wallets.

Me, I couldn't be bothered installing even a free, relatively new
LORAN set as it's easier and cheaper to improve one's coastal pilotage
than to rely on instruments solely. GPS is very handy, but my sailing
days aren't ruined if I leave it off. I use it to obtain ETAs, to
confirm my LOP and DR calcs and a couple of times in zero-visibility
fog in shoal waters, which allowed us to proceed referencing the paper
chart and blowing a horn whereas without it I would have dropped
anchor and waited it out.

R.

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 17:29:41 -0500, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

Now I understand. You are another JAXite.

Can't we all just get along??? sob!

Wow...JAXite is a low blow...

WaIIy wrote:
On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 22:39:07 -0500, prodigal1 wrote:


wrote:

Bush people announce they may end GPS.

well not quite, but if you're sailing up Lake Huron in the fog, it may
mildly **** you off when gps goes down because Dubya wants to effect
another regime change somewhere


Please join Herr Krause in wrecked.boats.

Very bad karma Wally to wish things on people you wouldn't wish on
yourself. BTW, did I post something non-factual or is this is an
example of the kind of tolerance of free speech practised by some of you
Americans these days?

welcome to my bozo-bin
*plonk*

LORAN is still alive and well.

"John R. Campbell" wrote in message
...
On rhys wrote:
Cindy Ballreich wrote:
Hey! This was supposed to degenerate into a
sextant flamewar, not a political flamewar!
Didn't you get the schedule?

We just HAD a sextant flamewar, didn't we? I
believe it can be found just inside this
cocked hat here...

I'm not up to date... so is LORAN dead yet?

--
John R. Campbell Speaker to Machines soup at tampabay dot rr dot
com
"Grace is sufficient so Joy was let go." - Heather L.
Campbell
"Faith manages ... even though she didn't get promoted" -
me
Why OS X? Because making Unix user-friendly was easier than debugging
Windows

I'm pretty sure the phase-out hasn't been started as of the end of 2004 so
I doubt if it will be completed in 2005. My friends that are using LORAN
are still happy.

Doug

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 19:14:10 -0500, "Doug Dotson"
said:

LORAN is still alive and well.

Isn't the phase-out of LORAN to be completed in 2005?

WaIIy wrote:
On Sat, 18 Dec 2004, prodigal1 wrote:

Your original post was in very poor taste and got the retort it deserved.
Welcome to my Bozo Bin, you'll find your pal Krause in there with you.
Maybe you can hug each other.

nice try WaIIy
it must feel kind of special to be a fascist and a technowannbe all at
the same time
on the unrelated note you've introduced, do you have some desire to
watch men hugging each other you'd like to discuss with us?

for what it's worth, I hope you never end up in "wrecked.boats"
even if you are an unpleasant person

Both are Differential Global Positioning System (DGPS). There are a large
number of ways to get the correcting signals. Nothing changes the fact that
they are the same technique implemented by two different communication
paths. You can also do differential by modulation of the LORAN signal as is
done in Europe. You can also use a local reference by short wave. It is
all differential.

WAAS is a little more sophisticated but the basics are the same.

Try it this way...if the differential signal from a USCG site was forwarded
to you by a satellite...say via Iridium...would it cease to be DGPS and turn
into WAAS? No I don't think so.

I also suggest that "Me" not comment until the question is understood.
"Bzzzt Wrong Answer"

Jim Donohue
"Me" wrote in message
...
In article paPwd.83$iD.50@fed1read05,
"Jim Donohue" wrote:

Actually WAAS is DGPS...Jim

Bzzzt Wrong answer. Would you like to try for what is behind Door #3?

WAAS is a SAT based Service, whereas DGPS is a MF Terrestrial based
Service. Two different things that try to correct the same GPS
accuracy.


Me

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 10:40:03 -0500,
rhys wrote:
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 21:57:25 -0500, DSK wrote:

Yep. We're switching over to faith-based navigation ;)

God Is My Co-Pilot. No, Really.



God was my co-pilot, but we crashed in the mountains and I had to eat
him.

--
Jim Richardson http://www.eskimo.com/~warlock
You are as I am with You.

DGPS is a specific service. WAAS is another specific service. They are
not the same thing although both provide diferential corrections.

Doug

"Jim Donohue" wrote in message
news:Yy7xd.379$iD.233@fed1read05...
Both are Differential Global Positioning System (DGPS). There are a large
number of ways to get the correcting signals. Nothing changes the fact
that they are the same technique implemented by two different
communication paths. You can also do differential by modulation of the
LORAN signal as is done in Europe. You can also use a local reference by
short wave. It is all differential.

WAAS is a little more sophisticated but the basics are the same.

Try it this way...if the differential signal from a USCG site was
forwarded to you by a satellite...say via Iridium...would it cease to be
DGPS and turn into WAAS? No I don't think so.

I also suggest that "Me" not comment until the question is understood.
"Bzzzt Wrong Answer"

Jim Donohue
"Me" wrote in message
...
In article paPwd.83$iD.50@fed1read05,
"Jim Donohue" wrote:

Actually WAAS is DGPS...Jim

Bzzzt Wrong answer. Would you like to try for what is behind Door #3?

WAAS is a SAT based Service, whereas DGPS is a MF Terrestrial based
Service. Two different things that try to correct the same GPS
accuracy.


Me

George Carlin said it best "Only in America do people spend money they don't
have on things they don't need and pay interest".
OT, but I love that quote!
MMC
"Doug Dotson" wrote in message
...
I think by definition, something that carries an astronomical price tag
is not realistic :)

"Brien Alkire" wrote in message
...
They're also going to make the system more resistant to jamming.

That's a lot of lip service. Realistic methods of making it more
resistant
to jamming carry astronomical price tags.

On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 05:10:38 GMT, Jim Richardson
wrote:

On Fri, 17 Dec 2004 10:40:03 -0500,
rhys wrote:
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 21:57:25 -0500, DSK wrote:

Yep. We're switching over to faith-based navigation ;)

God Is My Co-Pilot. No, Really.



God was my co-pilot, but we crashed in the mountains and I had to eat
him.


Excellent!! Thank you



Rodney Myrvaagnes NYC

Let's Put the XXX back in Xmas

i wouldn't be too worried doing 3 kts on a boat...now, if i was
in a plane doing 300 kts...that would be different