We have the forced air type (Espar) and are very happy with it. Matter
of fact it is my weekend project this weekend. I need to replace the
aluminum ductwork as it has corroded from the salt air (it seems to
be pretty old anyway). It burns about a quart of fuel per hour if running
continuously. Duty cycle obviously is a function of the temperature.

The water type has advantages (Espar, Webasto, etc). Easier to route
water tubing than to route ductwork. Also, it can be configured to run
off of engine water.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Courtney Thomas" wrote in message
...
I'm told that there are at least 2 types of boat heater, both of which
burn diesel; one using a blower to disperse the heat and the other heating
a circulating liquid.

What are the experiences of the group with both, please ?

Thank you,
Courtney
--
s/v Mutiny
Rhodes Bounty II
lying Oriental, NC
WDB5619

preferable diesel heater type ? forced air OR circulating liquid
 

I'm told that there are at least 2 types of boat heater, both of which
burn diesel; one using a blower to disperse the heat and the other
heating a circulating liquid.

What are the experiences of the group with both, please ?

Thank you,
Courtney
--
s/v Mutiny
Rhodes Bounty II
lying Oriental, NC
WDB5619

every boat I have been on -- except one -- that had the blower-type diesel
heater had had serious, and damned expensive, maintenance issues, issues that
were not fixable in the field. That single boat that had had no problems had
the heater installed only the previous month.

Worked fine, but ran a fully charged, brand new Group 27 battery flat dead by
about 2:00 in the morning, every morning.

I'm told that there are at least 2 types of boat heater, both of which
burn diesel; one using a blower to disperse the heat and the other
heating a circulating liquid.

What are the experiences of the group with both, please ?

Thank you,
Courtney
--
s/v Mutiny
Rhodes Bounty II
lying Oriental, NC
WDB5619

Courtney Thomas wrote:
I'm told that there are at least 2 types of boat heater, both of which
burn diesel; one using a blower to disperse the heat and the other
heating a circulating liquid.

What are the experiences of the group with both, please ?

We installed a Webasto Thermo-90 coolant type heating system and are
very happy with it.

http://www.webasto.us/press/en/am_tr...aters_821.html

The unit itself is amazingly compact, with a built in circulating pump,
combustion air fan, and control circuitry. I don't know if the system
overall is any more compact or easier to route than a forced air system;
the water piping & it's insualtion & expansion tank along with the heat
exchanger & fan, is quite bulky. With the added wiring & switches, I'm
sure it's more complicated & a bigger job to install.

Ours went on the aft engine room bulkhead where it is possible to access
the unit for maintenance (not that it should need any) and still have it
enclosed.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...42005030smuktF
(plus the next two)

It's extremely quiet, unless you listen for the clicking of the fuel
pump, you can't tell it's running. The heat exchanger fans are not that
quiet but they are not obtrusively noisy... we leave the forward heater
fan running on low all night. The system heats up in about 10 minutes
and is putting out good warm air in 5 ~ 6 min. The furnace unit draws
between 1 and 7 AH, the fans from 0.3 to 5; so we could run the unit all
night on batteries when anchored out.

I see a few advantages to the coolant type system. It's a bit more
efficient. The heaters can be installed in a wide variety of places...
we have 5... so we can have the heat on full in the head, for example,
and only a little warmth in the aft cabin. Ours is not (yet)
cross-connected to the engine to run on engine heat, but I also think it
would be a big advantage to be able to heat the engine up to operating
temp more often over the winter. BTW the mfg'er does not recommend this
cross connect as it can have flow problems not to mention air pockets or
leaks that would not damage the furnace but would be disastrous for the
engine.

Hope this helps.

Fresh Breezes
Doug King

Hey Jax- is there any Atomic 4 heater system?

JAXAshby wrote:
every boat I have been on

Have you ever actually been on a boat?


Worked fine, but ran a fully charged, brand new Group 27 battery flat dead by
about 2:00 in the morning, every morning.

Must have been a drag putting in a brand new battery daily.

DSK

Hey Jax- is there any Atomic 4 heater system?

ah, dooglies, an Atomic 4 is an _engine_, not a heater system. ask jeffies
wife to explain the difference for you.

Have you ever actually been on a boat?

oh, my yes. and I have actually been out in 2-1/2 foot seas. how about you,
dooglies, on either item?

Must have been a drag putting in a brand new battery daily.

no need, dooglies. there was this new fangled thing on the boat that actually
put the juice bugs back into the battery. Not sure how it was done, new
technology sometimes is baffling unless you have the design manual to review.
I think the gongset (that's what it is called, or something like that) ran from
the _engine_ where it lives back and forth to the Group 27 to stuff those
little juice bugs back in. I think the gongset carred three or fours bug each
trip.

DSK

"Courtney Thomas" wrote in message
...


Courtney Thomas wrote:

I'm told that there are at least 2 types of boat heater, both of which
burn diesel; one using a blower to disperse the heat and the other
heating a circulating liquid.

What are the experiences of the group with both, please ?

Thank you,
Courtney


On the Mirage 33 I crewed on, was a propane furnace/water heater. We didn't
use it. In the 2nd year the skipper took it out for whatever reason and it
wasn't installed until he sold the boat this spring. When he was at the
dock he occasionally used shore power for an electric heater.

Courtney Thomas wrote:

I'm told that there are at least 2 types of boat heater, both of which
burn diesel; one using a blower to disperse the heat and the other
heating a circulating liquid.

What are the experiences of the group with both, please ?

Thank you,
Courtney


--
s/v Mutiny
Rhodes Bounty II
lying Oriental, NC
WDB5619

In article ,
Courtney Thomas wrote:

I'm told that there are at least 2 types of boat heater, both of which
burn diesel; one using a blower to disperse the heat and the other
heating a circulating liquid.

What are the experiences of the group with both, please ?

Thank you,
Courtney

the project i'm working on at the moment has an ITR Hurricane
system which circulates hot water with a pump from a diesel-fired
boiler out through heater cores (with thermo controlled fans) and
then back to the boiler.

however...

i don't think any one system type is "better" so much as they are more
suited to different circumstances.

the forced air system is easily the simplest in terms of
hardware and such, but if the vessel is very large, getting
good coverage gets to be difficult and the ductwork can
consume a lot of space.

the ITR hot-water system is much more complex but it
more readily covers a much bigger vessel and also helps
make hot water for hotel use. the plumbing is also
much smaller, although there is a lot of it once you
see it laid into the hull. (grin)

both systems can provide good service if well-designed
and installed, and both systems can cause untold headaches
if not well-designed and installed.

i know the ITR folks are very willing to work with customers
to help insure their success and i assume the other suppliers
will as well for the same reasons.

i'd chat with several suppliers, describe the project in
detail and from each get their recommended system design and a bid.
then read all the documents for the proposed systems - installation,
operations and maintenance.

you will then be in a position to decide which system suits your vessel,
style of use, the system complexity, and cost you're willing to deal with
in an on-going fashion.

cheers,
-mo

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
every boat I have been on -- except one -- that had the blower-type diesel
heater had had serious, and damned expensive, maintenance issues, issues
that
were not fixable in the field. That single boat that had had no problems
had
the heater installed only the previous month.

Would be nice to know what brand that was.

Worked fine, but ran a fully charged, brand new Group 27 battery flat dead
by
about 2:00 in the morning, every morning.

A Group 27 battery is a pretty small batery for anything but powering
some lights. A forced air diesel heater is a pretty heavy hitter. Mine
draws 17A while starting (maybe a minute) and 5-7A while running.

I'm told that there are at least 2 types of boat heater, both of which
burn diesel; one using a blower to disperse the heat and the other
heating a circulating liquid.

What are the experiences of the group with both, please ?

Thank you,
Courtney
--
s/v Mutiny
Rhodes Bounty II
lying Oriental, NC
WDB5619

Would be nice to know what brand that was.

Espar.

Mine
draws 17A while starting (maybe a minute) and 5-7A while running.

that is one hell of a lot of amps overnight. Even a much greater bunch of amps
if you don't move the next day.

btw, you might wish to actually measure just how many amps your system *really*
burns. That brand new system on the boat would run out the about 50 to 60 amp
capacity of the brand new Group 25 in less than about 5 hours. (note a Grp 27
rated in about 105 amps, gives up about half that before it is effectively
dead. That is the way battery ratings work.)

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Would be nice to know what brand that was.

Espar.

Mine
draws 17A while starting (maybe a minute) and 5-7A while running.

that is one hell of a lot of amps overnight. Even a much greater bunch of
amps
if you don't move the next day.

Not really, it only runs maybe 10 minutes every hour. 20-30 AH per day for
heating is not too bad. Not sure what moving has to do with anything unless
you mean moving towards a warmer climate.
..
btw, you might wish to actually measure just how many amps your system
*really*
burns. That brand new system on the boat would run out the about 50 to
60 amp
capacity of the brand new Group 25 in less than about 5 hours. (note a
Grp 27
rated in about 105 amps, gives up about half that before it is effectively
dead. That is the way battery ratings work.)

I know. Such a small battery is not suitable for any forced air heating
system. Perhaps a Force 10 or Dickinson would be a choice for a boat
that does not support a serious battery bank.

ah, yessssss. 3,000 amps of battery capacity is about right.

btw, ***10*** ??? minutes per hour of run time for a heater? The outside temps
dropped to, what, 68*? Most people don't turn on a heater until overnight
temps go below 50*.



From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/12/2004 3:45 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Would be nice to know what brand that was.

Espar.

Mine
draws 17A while starting (maybe a minute) and 5-7A while running.

that is one hell of a lot of amps overnight. Even a much greater bunch of
amps
if you don't move the next day.

Not really, it only runs maybe 10 minutes every hour. 20-30 AH per day for
heating is not too bad. Not sure what moving has to do with anything unless
you mean moving towards a warmer climate.
.
btw, you might wish to actually measure just how many amps your system
*really*
burns. That brand new system on the boat would run out the about 50 to
60 amp
capacity of the brand new Group 25 in less than about 5 hours. (note a
Grp 27
rated in about 105 amps, gives up about half that before it is effectively
dead. That is the way battery ratings work.)

I know. Such a small battery is not suitable for any forced air heating
system. Perhaps a Force 10 or Dickinson would be a choice for a boat
that does not support a serious battery bank.

That is the way battery ratings work.)

I know. Such a small battery is not suitable for any forced air heating
system.

doug, a brand new, fully-charged Grp 27 battery will give up about 50 to 60
amps before it is dead. Even more when going to flat dead. That Espar ran
that brand new, fully-charged Grp 27 battery flat dead in about 6 hours. Flat
dead.

of course, it was not 68* outside. More like low 40's.

We generally turn it on when outside temps go below 50 or so. Boat
is well insulated so heater doesn;t have to run much to keep inside
in the 60s.


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
ah, yessssss. 3,000 amps of battery capacity is about right.

btw, ***10*** ??? minutes per hour of run time for a heater? The outside
temps
dropped to, what, 68*? Most people don't turn on a heater until overnight
temps go below 50*.



From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/12/2004 3:45 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Would be nice to know what brand that was.

Espar.

Mine
draws 17A while starting (maybe a minute) and 5-7A while running.

that is one hell of a lot of amps overnight. Even a much greater bunch
of
amps
if you don't move the next day.

Not really, it only runs maybe 10 minutes every hour. 20-30 AH per day for
heating is not too bad. Not sure what moving has to do with anything
unless
you mean moving towards a warmer climate.
.
btw, you might wish to actually measure just how many amps your system
*really*
burns. That brand new system on the boat would run out the about 50 to
60 amp
capacity of the brand new Group 25 in less than about 5 hours. (note a
Grp 27
rated in about 105 amps, gives up about half that before it is
effectively
dead. That is the way battery ratings work.)

I know. Such a small battery is not suitable for any forced air heating
system. Perhaps a Force 10 or Dickinson would be a choice for a boat
that does not support a serious battery bank.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
That is the way battery ratings work.)

I know. Such a small battery is not suitable for any forced air heating
system.

doug, a brand new, fully-charged Grp 27 battery will give up about 50 to
60
amps before it is dead.

I suspect you mean amp-hours since amps is not a measure of capacity.

Even more when going to flat dead. That Espar ran
that brand new, fully-charged Grp 27 battery flat dead in about 6 hours.
Flat
dead.

50-60AH at the 20 hour rate which is normally how batteries are rated. A 5
or 6
amp draw is much higher than the 20 hr rate. More like a 10 hr rate or
worse.

of course, it was not 68* outside. More like low 40's.

Depends upon what temperature the thermostat is set at, the outside temp,
how well the boats is insulated, etc. Sorry, a Group 27 battery just isn't
suited
for a forced air system. Isn;t really suited for much of a refrigeration
system
either.

doug, I certainly hope no one takes your advice. You are all over the place,
and giving advice your simply don't know is contradictory. Please be quiet.
If you fail that simple thing, I ask anyone who hears your advice to triple
check it with someone who has actually been there.

3,000 amps in battery capacity, dougies. geesh.

From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/12/2004 9:07 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
That is the way battery ratings work.)

I know. Such a small battery is not suitable for any forced air heating
system.

doug, a brand new, fully-charged Grp 27 battery will give up about 50 to
60
amps before it is dead.

I suspect you mean amp-hours since amps is not a measure of capacity.

Even more when going to flat dead. That Espar ran
that brand new, fully-charged Grp 27 battery flat dead in about 6 hours.
Flat
dead.

50-60AH at the 20 hour rate which is normally how batteries are rated. A 5
or 6
amp draw is much higher than the 20 hr rate. More like a 10 hr rate or
worse.

of course, it was not 68* outside. More like low 40's.

Depends upon what temperature the thermostat is set at, the outside temp,
how well the boats is insulated, etc. Sorry, a Group 27 battery just isn't
suited
for a forced air system. Isn;t really suited for much of a refrigeration
system
either.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
doug, I certainly hope no one takes your advice. You are all over the
place,

I have been all over the place. And have been toasty warm in all of them.

and giving advice your simply don't know is contradictory. Please be
quiet.
If you fail that simple thing, I ask anyone who hears your advice to
triple
check it with someone who has actually been there.

Anyone should double or triple check any advise from another, especially
anything you might suggest.

3,000 amps in battery capacity, dougies. geesh.

Battery capacity is not measured in amps bozo.


From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/12/2004 9:07 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
That is the way battery ratings work.)

I know. Such a small battery is not suitable for any forced air heating
system.

doug, a brand new, fully-charged Grp 27 battery will give up about 50 to
60
amps before it is dead.

I suspect you mean amp-hours since amps is not a measure of capacity.

Even more when going to flat dead. That Espar ran
that brand new, fully-charged Grp 27 battery flat dead in about 6 hours.
Flat
dead.

50-60AH at the 20 hour rate which is normally how batteries are rated. A 5
or 6
amp draw is much higher than the 20 hr rate. More like a 10 hr rate or
worse.

of course, it was not 68* outside. More like low 40's.

Depends upon what temperature the thermostat is set at, the outside temp,
how well the boats is insulated, etc. Sorry, a Group 27 battery just isn't
suited
for a forced air system. Isn;t really suited for much of a refrigeration
system
either.

dougies, are you related to dog pile jeffies? you talk just as stew ped. Ask
jeffie's wife to help you out here. follow closely, dougies, one step at time.
"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per hour at 12.8
volts". Again, ask jeffies wife to help you understand it. she is patient.
she has to be.

From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/12/2004 10:48 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
doug, I certainly hope no one takes your advice. You are all over the
place,

I have been all over the place. And have been toasty warm in all of them.

and giving advice your simply don't know is contradictory. Please be
quiet.
If you fail that simple thing, I ask anyone who hears your advice to
triple
check it with someone who has actually been there.

Anyone should double or triple check any advise from another, especially
anything you might suggest.

3,000 amps in battery capacity, dougies. geesh.

Battery capacity is not measured in amps bozo.


From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/12/2004 9:07 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
That is the way battery ratings work.)

I know. Such a small battery is not suitable for any forced air heating
system.

doug, a brand new, fully-charged Grp 27 battery will give up about 50 to
60
amps before it is dead.

I suspect you mean amp-hours since amps is not a measure of capacity.

Even more when going to flat dead. That Espar ran
that brand new, fully-charged Grp 27 battery flat dead in about 6 hours.
Flat
dead.

50-60AH at the 20 hour rate which is normally how batteries are rated. A 5
or 6
amp draw is much higher than the 20 hr rate. More like a 10 hr rate or
worse.

of course, it was not 68* outside. More like low 40's.

Depends upon what temperature the thermostat is set at, the outside temp,
how well the boats is insulated, etc. Sorry, a Group 27 battery just isn't
suited
for a forced air system. Isn;t really suited for much of a refrigeration
system
either.

On 13 Dec 2004 05:02:54 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per hour at 12.8
volts".

========================

Pure BS Jax, boating context or any other.

Time to get your diaper changed again.

http://www.wallas.fi/index_eng.php?group=2&type=2&ID=1

For a small sailboat this is a good choice if you want to minimize
current consumption. We have one in our Maxi 77, and with a small solar
panel to charge our battery we can in practice run it as much as we
want without worrying.

--
C++: The power, elegance and simplicity of a hand grenade.

a raw rookie, are ya ween?

From: Wayne.B
Date: 12/13/2004 3:17 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

On 13 Dec 2004 05:02:54 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote:

"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per hour at 12.8
volts".

========================

Pure BS Jax, boating context or any other.

Time to get your diaper changed again.

That's a new one on me. Can you site a reference that supports this?

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
dougies, are you related to dog pile jeffies? you talk just as stew ped.
Ask
jeffie's wife to help you out here. follow closely, dougies, one step at
time.
"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per hour at
12.8
volts". Again, ask jeffies wife to help you understand it. she is
patient.
she has to be.

From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/12/2004 10:48 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
doug, I certainly hope no one takes your advice. You are all over the
place,

I have been all over the place. And have been toasty warm in all of them.

and giving advice your simply don't know is contradictory. Please be
quiet.
If you fail that simple thing, I ask anyone who hears your advice to
triple
check it with someone who has actually been there.

Anyone should double or triple check any advise from another, especially
anything you might suggest.

3,000 amps in battery capacity, dougies. geesh.

Battery capacity is not measured in amps bozo.


From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/12/2004 9:07 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
That is the way battery ratings work.)

I know. Such a small battery is not suitable for any forced air
heating
system.

doug, a brand new, fully-charged Grp 27 battery will give up about 50
to
60
amps before it is dead.

I suspect you mean amp-hours since amps is not a measure of capacity.

Even more when going to flat dead. That Espar ran
that brand new, fully-charged Grp 27 battery flat dead in about 6
hours.
Flat
dead.

50-60AH at the 20 hour rate which is normally how batteries are rated. A
5
or 6
amp draw is much higher than the 20 hr rate. More like a 10 hr rate or
worse.

of course, it was not 68* outside. More like low 40's.

Depends upon what temperature the thermostat is set at, the outside
temp,
how well the boats is insulated, etc. Sorry, a Group 27 battery just
isn't
suited
for a forced air system. Isn;t really suited for much of a refrigeration
system
either.

ABYC

From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/13/2004 9:15 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

That's a new one on me. Can you site a reference that supports this?

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
dougies, are you related to dog pile jeffies? you talk just as stew ped.
Ask
jeffie's wife to help you out here. follow closely, dougies, one step at
time.
"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per hour at
12.8
volts". Again, ask jeffies wife to help you understand it. she is
patient.
she has to be.

From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/12/2004 10:48 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
doug, I certainly hope no one takes your advice. You are all over the
place,

I have been all over the place. And have been toasty warm in all of them.

and giving advice your simply don't know is contradictory. Please be
quiet.
If you fail that simple thing, I ask anyone who hears your advice to
triple
check it with someone who has actually been there.

Anyone should double or triple check any advise from another, especially
anything you might suggest.

3,000 amps in battery capacity, dougies. geesh.

Battery capacity is not measured in amps bozo.


From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/12/2004 9:07 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
That is the way battery ratings work.)

I know. Such a small battery is not suitable for any forced air
heating
system.

doug, a brand new, fully-charged Grp 27 battery will give up about 50
to
60
amps before it is dead.

I suspect you mean amp-hours since amps is not a measure of capacity.

Even more when going to flat dead. That Espar ran
that brand new, fully-charged Grp 27 battery flat dead in about 6
hours.
Flat
dead.

50-60AH at the 20 hour rate which is normally how batteries are rated. A
5
or 6
amp draw is much higher than the 20 hr rate. More like a 10 hr rate or
worse.

of course, it was not 68* outside. More like low 40's.

Depends upon what temperature the thermostat is set at, the outside
temp,
how well the boats is insulated, etc. Sorry, a Group 27 battery just
isn't
suited
for a forced air system. Isn;t really suited for much of a refrigeration
system
either.

doug, in order to "work harden" the copper tubing has to "work", meaning there
has to be room for the tubing to move under vibration. The idgit surverors you
used did not know the difference between properly supported copper tubing and
tubing hung at on each end, rubbing up against the thru bulkhead holes. You
paid them money to screw with you (makes you glad your insurance company would
finally allow you to send them money) and they did, even if they themselves did
not know the standards.

Replace the copper with aircraft quality rubber tubing encased in stainless
steel cage if you wish. Expensive and useless, but makes you feel better.
That is what you paid money to your surveryors for, to make you feel better.

From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/13/2004 9:15 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

That's a new one on me. Can you site a reference that supports this?

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
dougies, are you related to dog pile jeffies? you talk just as stew ped.
Ask
jeffie's wife to help you out here. follow closely, dougies, one step at
time.
"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per hour at
12.8
volts". Again, ask jeffies wife to help you understand it. she is
patient.
she has to be.

From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/12/2004 10:48 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
doug, I certainly hope no one takes your advice. You are all over the
place,

I have been all over the place. And have been toasty warm in all of them.

and giving advice your simply don't know is contradictory. Please be
quiet.
If you fail that simple thing, I ask anyone who hears your advice to
triple
check it with someone who has actually been there.

Anyone should double or triple check any advise from another, especially
anything you might suggest.

3,000 amps in battery capacity, dougies. geesh.

Battery capacity is not measured in amps bozo.


From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/12/2004 9:07 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
That is the way battery ratings work.)

I know. Such a small battery is not suitable for any forced air
heating
system.

doug, a brand new, fully-charged Grp 27 battery will give up about 50
to
60
amps before it is dead.

I suspect you mean amp-hours since amps is not a measure of capacity.

Even more when going to flat dead. That Espar ran
that brand new, fully-charged Grp 27 battery flat dead in about 6
hours.
Flat
dead.

50-60AH at the 20 hour rate which is normally how batteries are rated. A
5
or 6
amp draw is much higher than the 20 hr rate. More like a 10 hr rate or
worse.

of course, it was not 68* outside. More like low 40's.

Depends upon what temperature the thermostat is set at, the outside
temp,
how well the boats is insulated, etc. Sorry, a Group 27 battery just
isn't
suited
for a forced air system. Isn;t really suited for much of a refrigeration
system
either.

Thanks for a good laugh, jaxie! Even when you try to "clarify" and give
the "formal definition" you get it backwards! What a putz!

Its gratifying to see that you have so completely devoted yourself to
your craft. Every village needs an idiot, and you have perfected the art!


JAXAshby wrote:
follow closely, dougies, one step at time.
"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per hour at 12.8
volts".

rational discussion is not possible with you, dog pile, for if one says z
pickup truck is a Chevy, *you* insist there is no such thing. the closest
thing is a Chevrolet utulity vehicle and everyone knows that is not the same.

fumb duck you are.

the rest of us, dog pile, will continue to use the common usage.

From: Jeff Morris
Date: 12/13/2004 10:19 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Thanks for a good laugh, jaxie! Even when you try to "clarify" and give
the "formal definition" you get it backwards! What a putz!

Its gratifying to see that you have so completely devoted yourself to
your craft. Every village needs an idiot, and you have perfected the art!


JAXAshby wrote:
follow closely, dougies, one step at time.
"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per hour at
12.8
volts".

JAXAshby wrote:

rational discussion is not possible with you, dog pile, for if one says z
pickup truck is a Chevy, *you* insist there is no such thing. the closest
thing is a Chevrolet utulity vehicle and everyone knows that is not the same.

fumb duck you are.

the rest of us, dog pile, will continue to use the common usage.


From: Jeff Morris
Date: 12/13/2004 10:19 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Thanks for a good laugh, jaxie! Even when you try to "clarify" and give
the "formal definition" you get it backwards! What a putz!

Its gratifying to see that you have so completely devoted yourself to
your craft. Every village needs an idiot, and you have perfected the art!


JAXAshby wrote:

follow closely, dougies, one step at time.
"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per hour at

12.8

volts".











I've browsed this newsgroup for a quite while. It has been most
informative.... most of the time.

However, there is one thing that truly pollutes the newsgroup and
renders information less than usefull.

In a nutshell, has anyone else noticed that Jaxashby behaves like a
sociopath without a clue here? I am being quite serious.

Jax spouts off rudely, demonstrates a callous disregard for others and
offers an inflated, remarkably misplaced, egocentric opinion of himself.
Seems he rarely has a clue what the f#ck he is talking about either.

Somebody pointed out (correctly) that Amp HOURS is a measure of battery
capacity and JAX begins feels it is his mission to begin his response
with the statement:

"dougies, are you related to dog pile jeffies? you talk just as stew
ped. Ask jeffie's wife to help you out here. follow closely, dougies,
one step at time."

These comments by Jax are deliberately intended to be rude and insulting
right off the bat. I've noticed (as no doubt everyone else has) that
virutally EVERY post that Jax makes is rude and insulting. If you gentle
reader doubt that fact, go back and look. Just look at his past posts.
No kidding.

Seriously Jax, you need professional help. You are behaving like a
sociopath. Not that you'd have the sense to seek it but you should.

Here's a hint Jax... your rudeness is just a lame attempt at feeding
your sad and shallow ego. Sociopaths do that all the time. Your ego is
in the toilet because you are clueless and it shows. No other reason.
Ask yourself why do you continually attempt to inflate your ego at the
expense of others? Ever wonder why you are such a rude little M.F.? Look
up Sociopath online. Seriously.

Following that rude opening line Jax then adds :

"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per hour at
12.8 volts"

Let's correct Jax's OBVIOUS mis-statement right here and now.

AMPS in the context of boating means AMPS JAX, just like it does
everywhere else.

In the world of BOATING (as in every other industry) AMPS is a measure
of current flow. AMPS is used when you want to know how much current is
available for, or is being drawn by a device.

AMP HOURS is a measure of how many AMPS can be delivered per HOUR. In
other words CAPACITY.

To suggest that somehow the BASICS of electrical theory and convention
differ once electrical devices like batteries are deployed on boats is
just plain stupid and frankly, quite irrational. To repeat for Jax: AMPS
in the context of boating means AMPS JAX, just like it does everywhere
else.

No one in ANY industry (including boating) leaps to the foolish
assumption that someone describing AMPS actually meant "Amps used per
hour at 12.8 volts." To suggest otherwise demonstrates a serious lack of
understanding of the basics of electricity. Someone that clueless has no
business offering an opinion here Jax. Not that being clueless has ever
stopped you before.

It's truly a pity that a worthwhile newsgroup is infected with a dung
beetle like Jax. It pollutes it, and renders it much more difficult to
sift through the grabage he spews. Even filtering him doesn't help, as
the responses (corrections) to his useless posts still filter through.

Sad really. Fortunately everyone can see by his posts, what and who he
is. This (hopefully) makes it obvious that people should ignore his bad
advice.

Wouldn't it be nice if Jax found a new interest and moved on to infect
some other newsgroup instead? We can all dream.

Rational discussion is not possible with someone who thinks he is
demonstrating his superior knowledge by saying: "amps used per hour at
12.8 volts".

JAXAshby wrote:
rational discussion is not possible with you, dog pile, for if one says z
pickup truck is a Chevy, *you* insist there is no such thing. the closest
thing is a Chevrolet utulity vehicle and everyone knows that is not the same.

fumb duck you are.

the rest of us, dog pile, will continue to use the common usage.


From: Jeff Morris
Date: 12/13/2004 10:19 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Thanks for a good laugh, jaxie! Even when you try to "clarify" and give
the "formal definition" you get it backwards! What a putz!

Its gratifying to see that you have so completely devoted yourself to
your craft. Every village needs an idiot, and you have perfected the art!


JAXAshby wrote:

follow closely, dougies, one step at time.
"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per hour at

12.8

volts".

As I've stated before, simply use your kill file to automatically delete
posts from people that you don't want to read. If other people didn't
quote his posts in their replies, it would work great. It would be even
better if people didn't reply to his posts as it only feeds him. The real
problem is that the articles degrade into a juvenile, name calling brawl
and become devoid of content. If I wanted that level of discussion, I
would read alt.sailing.asa.

So, if you don't know what a kill file is, or how to use one, read up on it
and use it!

-- Geoff

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 11:45:31 -0500, James wrote:

I've browsed this newsgroup for a quite while. It has been most
informative.... most of the time.

However, there is one thing that truly pollutes the newsgroup and
renders information less than usefull.

In a nutshell, has anyone else noticed that Jaxashby behaves like a
sociopath without a clue here? I am being quite serious.

And being as this is a public place you can either engage with him or
ignore him. Experience indicates that engaging with him produces more
of the same.

Ryk

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 11:45:31 -0500, James wrote:

Wouldn't it be nice if Jax found a new interest and moved on to infect
some other newsgroup instead? We can all dream.

Who here has seen the BBC series "The Office"? It takes a while to
grow on you, but it supplies more "laughs of rueful recognition" than
anything else I've ever seen. The lead character is a delusional,
"comedic" manager with a bloated ego whose sheer incompetence is only
exceeded by his run-off-at-the-mouth verbal flatulence and hostility.

JAX=an American David Brent with a toy boat in his bathtub.

geof will not read this, but the essence of what he says is that should one
want to remain ignorant one merely has to not listen.

works for him.

From: Geoff Schultz
Date: 12/13/2004 12:56 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

As I've stated before, simply use your kill file to automatically delete
posts from people that you don't want to read. If other people didn't
quote his posts in their replies, it would work great. It would be even
better if people didn't reply to his posts as it only feeds him. The real
problem is that the articles degrade into a juvenile, name calling brawl
and become devoid of content. If I wanted that level of discussion, I
would read alt.sailing.asa.

So, if you don't know what a kill file is, or how to use one, read up on it
and use it!

-- Geoff

jeffies, rational discussion is not possible with what psychologists call
"literate" or "concrete" minds. You lack the capability to understand
concepts. you get ****ed when someone says it's raining cats and dogs outside,
because you KNOW cats and dogs don't fall out of the sky. Only a miscreant
would say cats and dogs fall out of the sky.

From: Jeff Morris
Date: 12/13/2004 12:02 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Rational discussion is not possible with someone who thinks he is
demonstrating his superior knowledge by saying: "amps used per hour at
12.8 volts".

JAXAshby wrote:
rational discussion is not possible with you, dog pile, for if one says z
pickup truck is a Chevy, *you* insist there is no such thing. the closest
thing is a Chevrolet utulity vehicle and everyone knows that is not the
same.

fumb duck you are.

the rest of us, dog pile, will continue to use the common usage.


From: Jeff Morris
Date: 12/13/2004 10:19 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Thanks for a good laugh, jaxie! Even when you try to "clarify" and give
the "formal definition" you get it backwards! What a putz!

Its gratifying to see that you have so completely devoted yourself to
your craft. Every village needs an idiot, and you have perfected the art!


JAXAshby wrote:

follow closely, dougies, one step at time.
"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per hour at

12.8

volts".

Jax, you ARE a sociopath. In fact, your denial of the fact, coupled with
your grandiose mistaken belief in your superiority are primary traits.
So is you NEED to be rude and insulting to everyone. Have you ever gone
back and read your posts? Have you found any replies you have made that
aren't insulting and rude? No you haven't. Sociopath.

Frankly, the posts I have read by the folks you slam are quite informed
and helpful. Yours on the other hand are ALWAYS full of insults, and
offer up ill informed armchair sailor information. It's YOU JAX who
hasn't a CLEW.

And you can continue to misuse the term AMPS to your hearts content. To
expect anythin less than rigid adherence to a disturbed belief structure
would be outside the norm for a SOCIOPATH.

It doesn't change the fact that:

AMPS in the context of boating means AMPS JAX, just like it does
everywhere else.

AMPS does nto mean AMP HOURS, JAX. Plain and simple. Just like you.

Wait for it, I will make a new post to further deomonstrate the contemtp
held for you here JAX. It shoudl tickle your little SOCIOPATH heart to read.



jimmy NO nos pam, you are either a person of limited intelligence or your have
been here such a short period of time you have not yet realized that there are
a couple of intellectual/physical short sticks here (jeffies, dougies, the
other dougies, junnie, etc) who like to spout in some vain attempt to show they
really are not as dumb as a dog pile.

You are welcome, jimmy, to join the pile. In the meantime, the rest of us will
use the term "amps" in the context used, and use it with full understanding.

btw, jimmy, look up the term "sociopath", for you used it in a context which
clearly shows you do not have a clew what it means. here is how you find out,
jimmy. Ask someone who teaches the subject at the college level. Forget the
_Better Homes and Garden_ approach.



From: James

Date: 12/13/2004 11:45 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

JAXAshby wrote:


rational discussion is not possible with you, dog pile, for if one says z
pickup truck is a Chevy, *you* insist there is no such thing. the closest
thing is a Chevrolet utulity vehicle and everyone knows that is not the

same.

fumb duck you are.

the rest of us, dog pile, will continue to use the common usage.



From: Jeff Morris
Date: 12/13/2004 10:19 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Thanks for a good laugh, jaxie! Even when you try to "clarify" and give
the "formal definition" you get it backwards! What a putz!

Its gratifying to see that you have so completely devoted yourself to
your craft. Every village needs an idiot, and you have perfected the art!


JAXAshby wrote:


follow closely, dougies, one step at time.
"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per hour at

12.8


volts".









I've browsed this newsgroup for a quite while. It has been most
informative.... most of the time.

However, there is one thing that truly pollutes the newsgroup and
renders information less than usefull.

In a nutshell, has anyone else noticed that Jaxashby behaves like a
sociopath without a clue here? I am being quite serious.

Jax spouts off rudely, demonstrates a callous disregard for others and
offers an inflated, remarkably misplaced, egocentric opinion of himself.
Seems he rarely has a clue what the f#ck he is talking about either.

Somebody pointed out (correctly) that Amp HOURS is a measure of battery
capacity and JAX begins feels it is his mission to begin his response
with the statement:

"dougies, are you related to dog pile jeffies? you talk just as stew
ped. Ask jeffie's wife to help you out here. follow closely, dougies,
one step at time."

These comments by Jax are deliberately intended to be rude and insulting
right off the bat. I've noticed (as no doubt everyone else has) that
virutally EVERY post that Jax makes is rude and insulting. If you gentle
reader doubt that fact, go back and look. Just look at his past posts.
No kidding.

Seriously Jax, you need professional help. You are behaving like a
sociopath. Not that you'd have the sense to seek it but you should.

Here's a hint Jax... your rudeness is just a lame attempt at feeding
your sad and shallow ego. Sociopaths do that all the time. Your ego is
in the toilet because you are clueless and it shows. No other reason.
Ask yourself why do you continually attempt to inflate your ego at the
expense of others? Ever wonder why you are such a rude little M.F.? Look
up Sociopath online. Seriously.

Following that rude opening line Jax then adds :

"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per hour at
12.8 volts"

Let's correct Jax's OBVIOUS mis-statement right here and now.

AMPS in the context of boating means AMPS JAX, just like it does
everywhere else.

In the world of BOATING (as in every other industry) AMPS is a measure
of current flow. AMPS is used when you want to know how much current is
available for, or is being drawn by a device.

AMP HOURS is a measure of how many AMPS can be delivered per HOUR. In
other words CAPACITY.

To suggest that somehow the BASICS of electrical theory and convention
differ once electrical devices like batteries are deployed on boats is
just plain stupid and frankly, quite irrational. To repeat for Jax: AMPS
in the context of boating means AMPS JAX, just like it does everywhere
else.

No one in ANY industry (including boating) leaps to the foolish
assumption that someone describing AMPS actually meant "Amps used per
hour at 12.8 volts." To suggest otherwise demonstrates a serious lack of
understanding of the basics of electricity. Someone that clueless has no
business offering an opinion here Jax. Not that being clueless has ever
stopped you before.

It's truly a pity that a worthwhile newsgroup is infected with a dung
beetle like Jax. It pollutes it, and renders it much more difficult to
sift through the grabage he spews. Even filtering him doesn't help, as
the responses (corrections) to his useless posts still filter through.

Sad really. Fortunately everyone can see by his posts, what and who he
is. This (hopefully) makes it obvious that people should ignore his bad
advice.

Wouldn't it be nice if Jax found a new interest and moved on to infect
some other newsgroup instead? We can all dream.

Wouldn't it be nice if Jax found a new interest and moved on to infect
some other newsgroup instead?

I have a number of interests outside of sailing. I find that the groups that
have valid information in them as the norm are quite interesting. yo-yo's
arriving with bogus information and/or juvenile simply treated as the miscreant
they are. One such group has been around more than ten years and is still
highly informative.

But they like what they are doing, rather than most who post here who are
scared squatless to go out in a boat in winds above F-4.

JAXAshby wrote:
Wouldn't it be nice if Jax found a new interest and moved on to infect
some other newsgroup instead?


I have a number of interests outside of sailing. I find that the groups that
have valid information in them as the norm are quite interesting. yo-yo's
arriving with bogus information and/or juvenile simply treated as the miscreant
they are. One such group has been around more than ten years and is still
highly informative.

But they like what they are doing, rather than most who post here who are
scared squatless to go out in a boat in winds above F-4.

A quick GOOGLE of shows that you post to

rec.boats.cruising (A LOT)
rec.boats
alt.sailing.asa
misc.writing (occasionally)
alt.sewing

Now JAXAshby, go Google yourself under newsgroups and take the time to
just read the first few lines of every post showing up.

Other than the two already dissected here, I'll just grab a couple of
more snippets for you to digest Jax

"no, glenn, I completely understood that you were trying to make a
funny, and you showed yourself ignorant. way to go."

"Neal, attempting rational discussion with jeffies is like attempting
rational discussion with a dog pile. jeffies intent is to "prove" that
his 84 IQ is within 2-1/2 points of infinity. Here is an actual ... "

"sorry doodette. I'll try to avoid metaphors in the future for your
better understanding."

"sorry doodette. I'll try to avoid metaphors in the future for your
better understanding."

"davey, it is awfully early in the morning to so drunk you can't
understand the relationship between comprehension and information and/or
pleasure. sad case, you are"

I could go on JaxAshby. Notice a common thread? Yup, you are an
insulting rude ignorant poster almost all the time.

No wonder NO ONE wants you around here.

You are A SOCIOPATH JAXAshby.

LOOK IT UP.

Find a check list and see how many symptoms you have.

Seriously.

jimmy, I know this has never occured to you, but there really are other groups
as well.

oh, well. what would we expect from someone who feels the entire world of
information was delivered to him by comic book and Popular Science by the time
he ws 13 years old.

From: James
Date: 12/13/2004 2:38 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

JAXAshby wrote:
Wouldn't it be nice if Jax found a new interest and moved on to infect
some other newsgroup instead?


I have a number of interests outside of sailing. I find that the groups
that
have valid information in them as the norm are quite interesting. yo-yo's
arriving with bogus information and/or juvenile simply treated as the
miscreant
they are. One such group has been around more than ten years and is still
highly informative.

But they like what they are doing, rather than most who post here who are
scared squatless to go out in a boat in winds above F-4.

A quick GOOGLE of shows that you post to

rec.boats.cruising (A LOT)
rec.boats
alt.sailing.asa
misc.writing (occasionally)
alt.sewing

Now JAXAshby, go Google yourself under newsgroups and take the time to
just read the first few lines of every post showing up.

Other than the two already dissected here, I'll just grab a couple of
more snippets for you to digest Jax

"no, glenn, I completely understood that you were trying to make a
funny, and you showed yourself ignorant. way to go."

"Neal, attempting rational discussion with jeffies is like attempting
rational discussion with a dog pile. jeffies intent is to "prove" that
his 84 IQ is within 2-1/2 points of infinity. Here is an actual ... "

"sorry doodette. I'll try to avoid metaphors in the future for your
better understanding."

"sorry doodette. I'll try to avoid metaphors in the future for your
better understanding."

"davey, it is awfully early in the morning to so drunk you can't
understand the relationship between comprehension and information and/or
pleasure. sad case, you are"

I could go on JaxAshby. Notice a common thread? Yup, you are an
insulting rude ignorant poster almost all the time.

No wonder NO ONE wants you around here.

You are A SOCIOPATH JAXAshby.

LOOK IT UP.

Find a check list and see how many symptoms you have.

Seriously.