A search of



under NEWSGROUPS only showed posts from you to the newsgroups I
mentioned. AND the VAST majority of your drivel is posting in sailing
newsgroups. And almost all of it is rude and insulting. Go read for
yourself.

Know what's interesting? Your mean sprited full of sh*t replies are
there in perpetuity, for everyone to see and read...EVERYONE can make a
quick assessment and determine that you are a mean spirited Sociopath.

Have you looked it up yet Jax?

Jimmy

DON'T LIKE BEING INSULTED JAX?

Neither do your victims JAX

LIKE HOW IT FEELS TO BE PUT DOWN AND HUMILIATED JAX?

Neither do your victims JAX.

Deal with it. Look into the mirror JAX




JAXAshby wrote:

looks like we have a cyber stalker creep who has arrived calling himself James
NoNos Spam. Ain't that nice? "James", not jim or jimmy or bud or dood. No,
an arrogant turd who insists his name is "James", sniff, sniff.


From: James
Date: 12/13/2004 3:09 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

A search of

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 14:38:31 -0500, James wrote:



A quick GOOGLE of shows that you post to

alt.sewing

alt.sewing? I was under the impression that JAXie made due with a pair
of Speedos and a tin foil admiral's hat. Perhaps there is a whole line
of JAX wear out there. Perhaps there is a jacket with extra,
extra-long sleeves, for instance.

Ole,

What do they cost [in US$], please ?

Thank you.




Ole-Hjalmar Kristensen wrote:

http://www.wallas.fi/index_eng.php?group=2&type=2&ID=1

For a small sailboat this is a good choice if you want to minimize
current consumption. We have one in our Maxi 77, and with a small solar
panel to charge our battery we can in practice run it as much as we
want without worrying.




--
s/v Mutiny
Rhodes Bounty II
lying Oriental, NC
WDB5619

I guess, jimmy, when I considered that you were the source I was not insulted
at all.

From: James
Date: 12/13/2004 3:40 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

DON'T LIKE BEING INSULTED JAX?

Neither do your victims JAX

LIKE HOW IT FEELS TO BE PUT DOWN AND HUMILIATED JAX?

Neither do your victims JAX.

Deal with it. Look into the mirror JAX




JAXAshby wrote:

looks like we have a cyber stalker creep who has arrived calling himself
James
NoNos Spam. Ain't that nice? "James", not jim or jimmy or bud or dood.
No,
an arrogant turd who insists his name is "James", sniff, sniff.


From: James
Date: 12/13/2004 3:09 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

A search of

JAXAshby wrote:
jeffies, rational discussion is not possible with what psychologists call
"literate" or "concrete" minds. You lack the capability to understand
concepts. you get ****ed when someone says it's raining cats and dogs outside,
because you KNOW cats and dogs don't fall out of the sky. Only a miscreant
would say cats and dogs fall out of the sky.


But, but, you *just* said it! er, typed it! Who's the miscreant?
-tk (just jumping in, here.)

Besides, the original saying was "Raining splats and big drops."
It's English ryhming speech.

Raining buckets" is just lazy speech, leaving off the inferred "full."


From: Jeff Morris
Date: 12/13/2004 12:02 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Rational discussion is not possible with someone who thinks he is
demonstrating his superior knowledge by saying: "amps used per hour at
12.8 volts".


Wait a minit! He obviously meant it conducts a number of amps for
an hour! Be fair, you brought it up. Superior to what?

JAXAshby wrote:

rational discussion is not possible with you, dog pile, for if one says z
pickup truck is a Chevy, *you* insist there is no such thing. the closest
thing is a Chevrolet utulity vehicle and everyone knows that is not the

same.


Does painting a dog pile make it better?

fumb duck you are.

the rest of us, dog pile, will continue to use the common usage.



,,common,, useage? A substitute for quotes on an early typewriter?
Common to what?

How can anyone rest whilst doing something?


From: Jeff Morris
Date: 12/13/2004 10:19 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Thanks for a good laugh, jaxie! Even when you try to "clarify" and give
the "formal definition" you get it backwards! What a putz!

Its gratifying to see that you have so completely devoted yourself to
your craft. Every village needs an idiot, and you have perfected the art!

JAXAshby wrote:

follow closely, dougies, one step at time.
"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per hour at

12.8


volts".


What?

erk, snip a page full of (approximately)

Jeeze, did he really "say" that?

ERK!

I'm defendin' and opposin' both sides at once. -Kofi Annan?

"Oh, Ho, Ho, isn't this fun!" -Smith of Smith and Smith.

Please people, be careful with the attributions. Libel is possible
on the internet, as well as defamation. Wouldn't want to misuse the
names function.

The best diesel heater may be a kerosene lamp. If you didn't know
you had one, it's free!

The best Diesel heater can also burn kerosene and alcohol, or other
spirits and liquid fuel, and has a small door for cleaning the
interior, trimming the wick and burning small bits of wood or coal
or even bones in an emergency. (Alcohol strong enough to burn is
called "spirits" in England.)

The best Diesel heater has a dedicated emergency fuel tank full of
potable spirits, held in reserve, which enables it to be taken
ashore for camping on the beach, and can be used to heat water
enough for tea and shaving, and has a hook for hanging up gloves to
dry, a grill for warming up the old boots before eating them, or
grilling seagulls in hard times, or fish in good ones.

The best diesel heater has enough windows in it that it sheds a
little light. Adjustable shades would allow setting the atmosphere
by adjusting the lighting, or for combustion, depending on the fuel
used, quite accurately, we wouldn't want to coke up the exhaust channel.

The very finest includes a water boiler core, useful for circulating
hot water for space heating radiators or for distilling low alcohol
content fermented scraps mash up to potable spirits status. Potable
spirits are also useful as medicinal anesthetics and for sterilizing
improvised surgical implements like sharpened coat hanger wire or
shaving blades.

When all standby alcohol containers are full, the boiling coil could
also be used to power a small reciprocating steam engine, useful for
ventilation by warmed air sucked or blown from fresh or return air
ducts or ventilation or forced combustion draught, or for
propulsion, or pumping fluids including the bilge, or even driving a
dynamo for battery storage and use in the electric trolling motor.

An external charging pump for the steam boiler function would be an
extra cost option.

In a world where "packet" meant the only delivery system in the
world, driven by sail, devices with more than one function were
eagerly sought after and sailors made do, making, mending and inventing.

It seems to me that a person could use a coffee can for a fuel tank.
With an adjustable lamp wick, and an exhaust chamber chimney pipe
with an air to air heat exchanger made from tin cans, including a
boiling coil, would be a possible DIY project, especially with steel
pop rivets and copper flexy pipe.

Maybe a Coleman or pressure kero (diesel) stove snap on burner
chimney accessory, whatever, like a fancy kettle with a ventilated
air jacket and a flexible metal vent stack you could stick out the
companionway hatch?

For occasional use only, of course.

How serious a heating system do you want?

DIY is best of all.

HO HO HO

Terry K

"-Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night!"
-Christopher Cringle.

alt.sewing?

I own a Sailrite LSZ and a Pfaff 130 for sail repair and canvas work (the
Sailrite being a far better machine). I occasionally toy with the idea of
making myself a high end Gore-Tex jacket. At the moment, a friend of mine
wants me to make some beach coverup type things from some spinnaker cloth I
have.

FWIW, I lurker/post on quite a number of other sites, some of which are not
open to the public (i.e. no riff-raff allowed). All sites deal only in stuff
so legal you could show anything there to your aunt, the nun. Most have
nothing at all to do with sailing. The ones that deal in valid information
stay viable. the one that deal in bogus b/s die early deaths in their subject
mater, though some stay as floating garbage wrecks unrelated to the original
subject.

All well spoken and right on the money. Incidently, defining AMPS
as related to 12.8 volts is silly. 12.8 volt is only rarely the actual
voltage
supplied.

Doug
s/v Callista

"James" wrote in message
.. .
JAXAshby wrote:

rational discussion is not possible with you, dog pile, for if one says z
pickup truck is a Chevy, *you* insist there is no such thing. the
closest
thing is a Chevrolet utulity vehicle and everyone knows that is not the
same.

fumb duck you are.

the rest of us, dog pile, will continue to use the common usage.


From: Jeff Morris Date: 12/13/2004 10:19
AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Thanks for a good laugh, jaxie! Even when you try to "clarify" and give
the "formal definition" you get it backwards! What a putz!

Its gratifying to see that you have so completely devoted yourself to
your craft. Every village needs an idiot, and you have perfected the
art!


JAXAshby wrote:

follow closely, dougies, one step at time.
"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per hour at

12.8

volts".











I've browsed this newsgroup for a quite while. It has been most
informative.... most of the time.

However, there is one thing that truly pollutes the newsgroup and renders
information less than usefull.

In a nutshell, has anyone else noticed that Jaxashby behaves like a
sociopath without a clue here? I am being quite serious.

Jax spouts off rudely, demonstrates a callous disregard for others and
offers an inflated, remarkably misplaced, egocentric opinion of himself.
Seems he rarely has a clue what the f#ck he is talking about either.

Somebody pointed out (correctly) that Amp HOURS is a measure of battery
capacity and JAX begins feels it is his mission to begin his response with
the statement:

"dougies, are you related to dog pile jeffies? you talk just as stew ped.
Ask jeffie's wife to help you out here. follow closely, dougies, one step
at time."

These comments by Jax are deliberately intended to be rude and insulting
right off the bat. I've noticed (as no doubt everyone else has) that
virutally EVERY post that Jax makes is rude and insulting. If you gentle
reader doubt that fact, go back and look. Just look at his past posts. No
kidding.

Seriously Jax, you need professional help. You are behaving like a
sociopath. Not that you'd have the sense to seek it but you should.

Here's a hint Jax... your rudeness is just a lame attempt at feeding your
sad and shallow ego. Sociopaths do that all the time. Your ego is in the
toilet because you are clueless and it shows. No other reason. Ask
yourself why do you continually attempt to inflate your ego at the expense
of others? Ever wonder why you are such a rude little M.F.? Look up
Sociopath online. Seriously.

Following that rude opening line Jax then adds :

"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per hour at
12.8 volts"

Let's correct Jax's OBVIOUS mis-statement right here and now.

AMPS in the context of boating means AMPS JAX, just like it does
everywhere else.

In the world of BOATING (as in every other industry) AMPS is a measure of
current flow. AMPS is used when you want to know how much current is
available for, or is being drawn by a device.

AMP HOURS is a measure of how many AMPS can be delivered per HOUR. In
other words CAPACITY.

To suggest that somehow the BASICS of electrical theory and convention
differ once electrical devices like batteries are deployed on boats is
just plain stupid and frankly, quite irrational. To repeat for Jax: AMPS
in the context of boating means AMPS JAX, just like it does everywhere
else.

No one in ANY industry (including boating) leaps to the foolish assumption
that someone describing AMPS actually meant "Amps used per hour at 12.8
volts." To suggest otherwise demonstrates a serious lack of understanding
of the basics of electricity. Someone that clueless has no business
offering an opinion here Jax. Not that being clueless has ever stopped you
before.

It's truly a pity that a worthwhile newsgroup is infected with a dung
beetle like Jax. It pollutes it, and renders it much more difficult to
sift through the grabage he spews. Even filtering him doesn't help, as the
responses (corrections) to his useless posts still filter through.

Sad really. Fortunately everyone can see by his posts, what and who he is.
This (hopefully) makes it obvious that people should ignore his bad
advice.

Wouldn't it be nice if Jax found a new interest and moved on to infect
some other newsgroup instead? We can all dream.

you are correct, of course dougies. using 12.8 volts as the approximate
voltage of a battery is just plain irresponsible. The correct number is
12.7835476589378 volts at 16.4797546429072 degrees centigrade and rel humity at
57.00004748470008%, the first number plus/minus 0.56983456, the second
plus/minus 2.237899984 and the third plus/minus 40%.

dougies, you powerboters who are terrified of winds above 12 knots slay me.

From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/13/2004 8:19 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

All well spoken and right on the money. Incidently, defining AMPS
as related to 12.8 volts is silly. 12.8 volt is only rarely the actual
voltage
supplied.

Doug
s/v Callista

"James" wrote in message
. ..
JAXAshby wrote:

rational discussion is not possible with you, dog pile, for if one says z
pickup truck is a Chevy, *you* insist there is no such thing. the
closest
thing is a Chevrolet utulity vehicle and everyone knows that is not the
same.

fumb duck you are.

the rest of us, dog pile, will continue to use the common usage.


From: Jeff Morris Date: 12/13/2004 10:19
AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Thanks for a good laugh, jaxie! Even when you try to "clarify" and give
the "formal definition" you get it backwards! What a putz!

Its gratifying to see that you have so completely devoted yourself to
your craft. Every village needs an idiot, and you have perfected the
art!


JAXAshby wrote:

follow closely, dougies, one step at time.
"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per hour at

12.8

volts".











I've browsed this newsgroup for a quite while. It has been most
informative.... most of the time.

However, there is one thing that truly pollutes the newsgroup and renders
information less than usefull.

In a nutshell, has anyone else noticed that Jaxashby behaves like a
sociopath without a clue here? I am being quite serious.

Jax spouts off rudely, demonstrates a callous disregard for others and
offers an inflated, remarkably misplaced, egocentric opinion of himself.
Seems he rarely has a clue what the f#ck he is talking about either.

Somebody pointed out (correctly) that Amp HOURS is a measure of battery
capacity and JAX begins feels it is his mission to begin his response with
the statement:

"dougies, are you related to dog pile jeffies? you talk just as stew ped.
Ask jeffie's wife to help you out here. follow closely, dougies, one step
at time."

These comments by Jax are deliberately intended to be rude and insulting
right off the bat. I've noticed (as no doubt everyone else has) that
virutally EVERY post that Jax makes is rude and insulting. If you gentle
reader doubt that fact, go back and look. Just look at his past posts. No
kidding.

Seriously Jax, you need professional help. You are behaving like a
sociopath. Not that you'd have the sense to seek it but you should.

Here's a hint Jax... your rudeness is just a lame attempt at feeding your
sad and shallow ego. Sociopaths do that all the time. Your ego is in the
toilet because you are clueless and it shows. No other reason. Ask
yourself why do you continually attempt to inflate your ego at the expense
of others? Ever wonder why you are such a rude little M.F.? Look up
Sociopath online. Seriously.

Following that rude opening line Jax then adds :

"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per hour at
12.8 volts"

Let's correct Jax's OBVIOUS mis-statement right here and now.

AMPS in the context of boating means AMPS JAX, just like it does
everywhere else.

In the world of BOATING (as in every other industry) AMPS is a measure of
current flow. AMPS is used when you want to know how much current is
available for, or is being drawn by a device.

AMP HOURS is a measure of how many AMPS can be delivered per HOUR. In
other words CAPACITY.

To suggest that somehow the BASICS of electrical theory and convention
differ once electrical devices like batteries are deployed on boats is
just plain stupid and frankly, quite irrational. To repeat for Jax: AMPS
in the context of boating means AMPS JAX, just like it does everywhere
else.

No one in ANY industry (including boating) leaps to the foolish assumption
that someone describing AMPS actually meant "Amps used per hour at 12.8
volts." To suggest otherwise demonstrates a serious lack of understanding
of the basics of electricity. Someone that clueless has no business
offering an opinion here Jax. Not that being clueless has ever stopped you
before.

It's truly a pity that a worthwhile newsgroup is infected with a dung
beetle like Jax. It pollutes it, and renders it much more difficult to
sift through the grabage he spews. Even filtering him doesn't help, as the
responses (corrections) to his useless posts still filter through.

Sad really. Fortunately everyone can see by his posts, what and who he is.
This (hopefully) makes it obvious that people should ignore his bad
advice.

Wouldn't it be nice if Jax found a new interest and moved on to infect
some other newsgroup instead? We can all dream.

idiot.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
you are correct, of course dougies. using 12.8 volts as the approximate
voltage of a battery is just plain irresponsible. The correct number is
12.7835476589378 volts at 16.4797546429072 degrees centigrade and rel
humity at
57.00004748470008%, the first number plus/minus 0.56983456, the second
plus/minus 2.237899984 and the third plus/minus 40%.

dougies, you powerboters who are terrified of winds above 12 knots slay
me.

From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/13/2004 8:19 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

All well spoken and right on the money. Incidently, defining AMPS
as related to 12.8 volts is silly. 12.8 volt is only rarely the actual
voltage
supplied.

Doug
s/v Callista

"James" wrote in message
...
JAXAshby wrote:

rational discussion is not possible with you, dog pile, for if one says
z
pickup truck is a Chevy, *you* insist there is no such thing. the
closest
thing is a Chevrolet utulity vehicle and everyone knows that is not the
same.

fumb duck you are.

the rest of us, dog pile, will continue to use the common usage.


From: Jeff Morris Date: 12/13/2004
10:19
AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Thanks for a good laugh, jaxie! Even when you try to "clarify" and
give
the "formal definition" you get it backwards! What a putz!

Its gratifying to see that you have so completely devoted yourself to
your craft. Every village needs an idiot, and you have perfected the
art!


JAXAshby wrote:

follow closely, dougies, one step at time.
"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per hour
at

12.8

volts".











I've browsed this newsgroup for a quite while. It has been most
informative.... most of the time.

However, there is one thing that truly pollutes the newsgroup and
renders
information less than usefull.

In a nutshell, has anyone else noticed that Jaxashby behaves like a
sociopath without a clue here? I am being quite serious.

Jax spouts off rudely, demonstrates a callous disregard for others and
offers an inflated, remarkably misplaced, egocentric opinion of himself.
Seems he rarely has a clue what the f#ck he is talking about either.

Somebody pointed out (correctly) that Amp HOURS is a measure of battery
capacity and JAX begins feels it is his mission to begin his response
with
the statement:

"dougies, are you related to dog pile jeffies? you talk just as stew
ped.
Ask jeffie's wife to help you out here. follow closely, dougies, one
step
at time."

These comments by Jax are deliberately intended to be rude and insulting
right off the bat. I've noticed (as no doubt everyone else has) that
virutally EVERY post that Jax makes is rude and insulting. If you gentle
reader doubt that fact, go back and look. Just look at his past posts.
No
kidding.

Seriously Jax, you need professional help. You are behaving like a
sociopath. Not that you'd have the sense to seek it but you should.

Here's a hint Jax... your rudeness is just a lame attempt at feeding
your
sad and shallow ego. Sociopaths do that all the time. Your ego is in the
toilet because you are clueless and it shows. No other reason. Ask
yourself why do you continually attempt to inflate your ego at the
expense
of others? Ever wonder why you are such a rude little M.F.? Look up
Sociopath online. Seriously.

Following that rude opening line Jax then adds :

"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per hour at
12.8 volts"

Let's correct Jax's OBVIOUS mis-statement right here and now.

AMPS in the context of boating means AMPS JAX, just like it does
everywhere else.

In the world of BOATING (as in every other industry) AMPS is a measure
of
current flow. AMPS is used when you want to know how much current is
available for, or is being drawn by a device.

AMP HOURS is a measure of how many AMPS can be delivered per HOUR. In
other words CAPACITY.

To suggest that somehow the BASICS of electrical theory and convention
differ once electrical devices like batteries are deployed on boats is
just plain stupid and frankly, quite irrational. To repeat for Jax: AMPS
in the context of boating means AMPS JAX, just like it does everywhere
else.

No one in ANY industry (including boating) leaps to the foolish
assumption
that someone describing AMPS actually meant "Amps used per hour at 12.8
volts." To suggest otherwise demonstrates a serious lack of
understanding
of the basics of electricity. Someone that clueless has no business
offering an opinion here Jax. Not that being clueless has ever stopped
you
before.

It's truly a pity that a worthwhile newsgroup is infected with a dung
beetle like Jax. It pollutes it, and renders it much more difficult to
sift through the grabage he spews. Even filtering him doesn't help, as
the
responses (corrections) to his useless posts still filter through.

Sad really. Fortunately everyone can see by his posts, what and who he
is.
This (hopefully) makes it obvious that people should ignore his bad
advice.

Wouldn't it be nice if Jax found a new interest and moved on to infect
some other newsgroup instead? We can all dream.

now, now dougies. keep in mind it was *you* who felt that 12.8 volts was a
gross inaccurate figure. you wanted more accuracy and you got it. now you
feel yourself confused by all those numbers. try this, dougies, think of a 12
volt battery as putting "just a little more than " 12 volts. you will be close
enough.

From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/13/2004 9:21 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

idiot.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
you are correct, of course dougies. using 12.8 volts as the approximate
voltage of a battery is just plain irresponsible. The correct number is
12.7835476589378 volts at 16.4797546429072 degrees centigrade and rel
humity at
57.00004748470008%, the first number plus/minus 0.56983456, the second
plus/minus 2.237899984 and the third plus/minus 40%.

dougies, you powerboters who are terrified of winds above 12 knots slay
me.

From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/13/2004 8:19 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

All well spoken and right on the money. Incidently, defining AMPS
as related to 12.8 volts is silly. 12.8 volt is only rarely the actual
voltage
supplied.

Doug
s/v Callista

"James" wrote in message
m...
JAXAshby wrote:

rational discussion is not possible with you, dog pile, for if one says
z
pickup truck is a Chevy, *you* insist there is no such thing. the
closest
thing is a Chevrolet utulity vehicle and everyone knows that is not the
same.

fumb duck you are.

the rest of us, dog pile, will continue to use the common usage.


From: Jeff Morris Date: 12/13/2004
10:19
AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Thanks for a good laugh, jaxie! Even when you try to "clarify" and
give
the "formal definition" you get it backwards! What a putz!

Its gratifying to see that you have so completely devoted yourself to
your craft. Every village needs an idiot, and you have perfected the
art!


JAXAshby wrote:

follow closely, dougies, one step at time.
"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per hour
at

12.8

volts".











I've browsed this newsgroup for a quite while. It has been most
informative.... most of the time.

However, there is one thing that truly pollutes the newsgroup and
renders
information less than usefull.

In a nutshell, has anyone else noticed that Jaxashby behaves like a
sociopath without a clue here? I am being quite serious.

Jax spouts off rudely, demonstrates a callous disregard for others and
offers an inflated, remarkably misplaced, egocentric opinion of himself.
Seems he rarely has a clue what the f#ck he is talking about either.

Somebody pointed out (correctly) that Amp HOURS is a measure of battery
capacity and JAX begins feels it is his mission to begin his response
with
the statement:

"dougies, are you related to dog pile jeffies? you talk just as stew
ped.
Ask jeffie's wife to help you out here. follow closely, dougies, one
step
at time."

These comments by Jax are deliberately intended to be rude and insulting
right off the bat. I've noticed (as no doubt everyone else has) that
virutally EVERY post that Jax makes is rude and insulting. If you gentle
reader doubt that fact, go back and look. Just look at his past posts.
No
kidding.

Seriously Jax, you need professional help. You are behaving like a
sociopath. Not that you'd have the sense to seek it but you should.

Here's a hint Jax... your rudeness is just a lame attempt at feeding
your
sad and shallow ego. Sociopaths do that all the time. Your ego is in the
toilet because you are clueless and it shows. No other reason. Ask
yourself why do you continually attempt to inflate your ego at the
expense
of others? Ever wonder why you are such a rude little M.F.? Look up
Sociopath online. Seriously.

Following that rude opening line Jax then adds :

"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per hour at
12.8 volts"

Let's correct Jax's OBVIOUS mis-statement right here and now.

AMPS in the context of boating means AMPS JAX, just like it does
everywhere else.

In the world of BOATING (as in every other industry) AMPS is a measure
of
current flow. AMPS is used when you want to know how much current is
available for, or is being drawn by a device.

AMP HOURS is a measure of how many AMPS can be delivered per HOUR. In
other words CAPACITY.

To suggest that somehow the BASICS of electrical theory and convention
differ once electrical devices like batteries are deployed on boats is
just plain stupid and frankly, quite irrational. To repeat for Jax: AMPS
in the context of boating means AMPS JAX, just like it does everywhere
else.

No one in ANY industry (including boating) leaps to the foolish
assumption
that someone describing AMPS actually meant "Amps used per hour at 12.8
volts." To suggest otherwise demonstrates a serious lack of
understanding
of the basics of electricity. Someone that clueless has no business
offering an opinion here Jax. Not that being clueless has ever stopped
you
before.

It's truly a pity that a worthwhile newsgroup is infected with a dung
beetle like Jax. It pollutes it, and renders it much more difficult to
sift through the grabage he spews. Even filtering him doesn't help, as
the
responses (corrections) to his useless posts still filter through.

Sad really. Fortunately everyone can see by his posts, what and who he
is.
This (hopefully) makes it obvious that people should ignore his bad
advice.

Wouldn't it be nice if Jax found a new interest and moved on to infect
some other newsgroup instead? We can all dream.

idiot.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
now, now dougies. keep in mind it was *you* who felt that 12.8 volts was
a
gross inaccurate figure. you wanted more accuracy and you got it. now
you
feel yourself confused by all those numbers. try this, dougies, think of
a 12
volt battery as putting "just a little more than " 12 volts. you will be
close
enough.

From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/13/2004 9:21 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

idiot.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
you are correct, of course dougies. using 12.8 volts as the approximate
voltage of a battery is just plain irresponsible. The correct number is
12.7835476589378 volts at 16.4797546429072 degrees centigrade and rel
humity at
57.00004748470008%, the first number plus/minus 0.56983456, the second
plus/minus 2.237899984 and the third plus/minus 40%.

dougies, you powerboters who are terrified of winds above 12 knots slay
me.

From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/13/2004 8:19 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

All well spoken and right on the money. Incidently, defining AMPS
as related to 12.8 volts is silly. 12.8 volt is only rarely the actual
voltage
supplied.

Doug
s/v Callista

"James" wrote in message
om...
JAXAshby wrote:

rational discussion is not possible with you, dog pile, for if one
says
z
pickup truck is a Chevy, *you* insist there is no such thing. the
closest
thing is a Chevrolet utulity vehicle and everyone knows that is not
the
same.

fumb duck you are.

the rest of us, dog pile, will continue to use the common usage.


From: Jeff Morris Date: 12/13/2004
10:19
AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Thanks for a good laugh, jaxie! Even when you try to "clarify" and
give
the "formal definition" you get it backwards! What a putz!

Its gratifying to see that you have so completely devoted yourself to
your craft. Every village needs an idiot, and you have perfected the
art!


JAXAshby wrote:

follow closely, dougies, one step at time.
"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per
hour
at

12.8

volts".











I've browsed this newsgroup for a quite while. It has been most
informative.... most of the time.

However, there is one thing that truly pollutes the newsgroup and
renders
information less than usefull.

In a nutshell, has anyone else noticed that Jaxashby behaves like a
sociopath without a clue here? I am being quite serious.

Jax spouts off rudely, demonstrates a callous disregard for others and
offers an inflated, remarkably misplaced, egocentric opinion of
himself.
Seems he rarely has a clue what the f#ck he is talking about either.

Somebody pointed out (correctly) that Amp HOURS is a measure of
battery
capacity and JAX begins feels it is his mission to begin his response
with
the statement:

"dougies, are you related to dog pile jeffies? you talk just as stew
ped.
Ask jeffie's wife to help you out here. follow closely, dougies, one
step
at time."

These comments by Jax are deliberately intended to be rude and
insulting
right off the bat. I've noticed (as no doubt everyone else has) that
virutally EVERY post that Jax makes is rude and insulting. If you
gentle
reader doubt that fact, go back and look. Just look at his past posts.
No
kidding.

Seriously Jax, you need professional help. You are behaving like a
sociopath. Not that you'd have the sense to seek it but you should.

Here's a hint Jax... your rudeness is just a lame attempt at feeding
your
sad and shallow ego. Sociopaths do that all the time. Your ego is in
the
toilet because you are clueless and it shows. No other reason. Ask
yourself why do you continually attempt to inflate your ego at the
expense
of others? Ever wonder why you are such a rude little M.F.? Look up
Sociopath online. Seriously.

Following that rude opening line Jax then adds :

"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per hour
at
12.8 volts"

Let's correct Jax's OBVIOUS mis-statement right here and now.

AMPS in the context of boating means AMPS JAX, just like it does
everywhere else.

In the world of BOATING (as in every other industry) AMPS is a measure
of
current flow. AMPS is used when you want to know how much current is
available for, or is being drawn by a device.

AMP HOURS is a measure of how many AMPS can be delivered per HOUR. In
other words CAPACITY.

To suggest that somehow the BASICS of electrical theory and convention
differ once electrical devices like batteries are deployed on boats is
just plain stupid and frankly, quite irrational. To repeat for Jax:
AMPS
in the context of boating means AMPS JAX, just like it does everywhere
else.

No one in ANY industry (including boating) leaps to the foolish
assumption
that someone describing AMPS actually meant "Amps used per hour at
12.8
volts." To suggest otherwise demonstrates a serious lack of
understanding
of the basics of electricity. Someone that clueless has no business
offering an opinion here Jax. Not that being clueless has ever stopped
you
before.

It's truly a pity that a worthwhile newsgroup is infected with a dung
beetle like Jax. It pollutes it, and renders it much more difficult to
sift through the grabage he spews. Even filtering him doesn't help, as
the
responses (corrections) to his useless posts still filter through.

Sad really. Fortunately everyone can see by his posts, what and who he
is.
This (hopefully) makes it obvious that people should ignore his bad
advice.

Wouldn't it be nice if Jax found a new interest and moved on to infect
some other newsgroup instead? We can all dream.

Doug,

What is the MSRP on the Thermo-90 ?

Thanks,
Courtney



DSK wrote:

Courtney Thomas wrote:

I'm told that there are at least 2 types of boat heater, both of which
burn diesel; one using a blower to disperse the heat and the other
heating a circulating liquid.

What are the experiences of the group with both, please ?


We installed a Webasto Thermo-90 coolant type heating system and are
very happy with it.

http://www.webasto.us/press/en/am_tr...aters_821.html

The unit itself is amazingly compact, with a built in circulating pump,
combustion air fan, and control circuitry. I don't know if the system
overall is any more compact or easier to route than a forced air system;
the water piping & it's insualtion & expansion tank along with the heat
exchanger & fan, is quite bulky. With the added wiring & switches, I'm
sure it's more complicated & a bigger job to install.

Ours went on the aft engine room bulkhead where it is possible to access
the unit for maintenance (not that it should need any) and still have it
enclosed.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...42005030smuktF
(plus the next two)

It's extremely quiet, unless you listen for the clicking of the fuel
pump, you can't tell it's running. The heat exchanger fans are not that
quiet but they are not obtrusively noisy... we leave the forward heater
fan running on low all night. The system heats up in about 10 minutes
and is putting out good warm air in 5 ~ 6 min. The furnace unit draws
between 1 and 7 AH, the fans from 0.3 to 5; so we could run the unit all
night on batteries when anchored out.

I see a few advantages to the coolant type system. It's a bit more
efficient. The heaters can be installed in a wide variety of places...
we have 5... so we can have the heat on full in the head, for example,
and only a little warmth in the aft cabin. Ours is not (yet)
cross-connected to the engine to run on engine heat, but I also think it
would be a big advantage to be able to heat the engine up to operating
temp more often over the winter. BTW the mfg'er does not recommend this
cross connect as it can have flow problems not to mention air pockets or
leaks that would not damage the furnace but would be disastrous for the
engine.

Hope this helps.

Fresh Breezes
Doug King




--
s/v Mutiny
Rhodes Bounty II
lying Oriental, NC
WDB5619

I-D-I-O-T doesn't have any numbers in it.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
*I* am an idiot, dougies? how can you say that. After all, it was you
who got
confused by all those numbers.

From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/13/2004 10:23 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

idiot.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
now, now dougies. keep in mind it was *you* who felt that 12.8 volts
was
a
gross inaccurate figure. you wanted more accuracy and you got it. now
you
feel yourself confused by all those numbers. try this, dougies, think
of
a 12
volt battery as putting "just a little more than " 12 volts. you will
be
close
enough.

From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/13/2004 9:21 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

idiot.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
you are correct, of course dougies. using 12.8 volts as the
approximate
voltage of a battery is just plain irresponsible. The correct number
is
12.7835476589378 volts at 16.4797546429072 degrees centigrade and rel
humity at
57.00004748470008%, the first number plus/minus 0.56983456, the second
plus/minus 2.237899984 and the third plus/minus 40%.

dougies, you powerboters who are terrified of winds above 12 knots
slay
me.

From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/13/2004 8:19 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

All well spoken and right on the money. Incidently, defining AMPS
as related to 12.8 volts is silly. 12.8 volt is only rarely the actual
voltage
supplied.

Doug
s/v Callista

"James" wrote in message
.com...
JAXAshby wrote:

rational discussion is not possible with you, dog pile, for if one
says
z
pickup truck is a Chevy, *you* insist there is no such thing. the
closest
thing is a Chevrolet utulity vehicle and everyone knows that is not
the
same.

fumb duck you are.

the rest of us, dog pile, will continue to use the common usage.


From: Jeff Morris Date: 12/13/2004
10:19
AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Thanks for a good laugh, jaxie! Even when you try to "clarify" and
give
the "formal definition" you get it backwards! What a putz!

Its gratifying to see that you have so completely devoted yourself
to
your craft. Every village needs an idiot, and you have perfected
the
art!


JAXAshby wrote:

follow closely, dougies, one step at time.
"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per
hour
at

12.8

volts".











I've browsed this newsgroup for a quite while. It has been most
informative.... most of the time.

However, there is one thing that truly pollutes the newsgroup and
renders
information less than usefull.

In a nutshell, has anyone else noticed that Jaxashby behaves like a
sociopath without a clue here? I am being quite serious.

Jax spouts off rudely, demonstrates a callous disregard for others
and
offers an inflated, remarkably misplaced, egocentric opinion of
himself.
Seems he rarely has a clue what the f#ck he is talking about either.

Somebody pointed out (correctly) that Amp HOURS is a measure of
battery
capacity and JAX begins feels it is his mission to begin his
response
with
the statement:

"dougies, are you related to dog pile jeffies? you talk just as
stew
ped.
Ask jeffie's wife to help you out here. follow closely, dougies,
one
step
at time."

These comments by Jax are deliberately intended to be rude and
insulting
right off the bat. I've noticed (as no doubt everyone else has) that
virutally EVERY post that Jax makes is rude and insulting. If you
gentle
reader doubt that fact, go back and look. Just look at his past
posts.
No
kidding.

Seriously Jax, you need professional help. You are behaving like a
sociopath. Not that you'd have the sense to seek it but you should.

Here's a hint Jax... your rudeness is just a lame attempt at feeding
your
sad and shallow ego. Sociopaths do that all the time. Your ego is in
the
toilet because you are clueless and it shows. No other reason. Ask
yourself why do you continually attempt to inflate your ego at the
expense
of others? Ever wonder why you are such a rude little M.F.? Look up
Sociopath online. Seriously.

Following that rude opening line Jax then adds :

"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per hour
at
12.8 volts"

Let's correct Jax's OBVIOUS mis-statement right here and now.

AMPS in the context of boating means AMPS JAX, just like it does
everywhere else.

In the world of BOATING (as in every other industry) AMPS is a
measure
of
current flow. AMPS is used when you want to know how much current is
available for, or is being drawn by a device.

AMP HOURS is a measure of how many AMPS can be delivered per HOUR.
In
other words CAPACITY.

To suggest that somehow the BASICS of electrical theory and
convention
differ once electrical devices like batteries are deployed on boats
is
just plain stupid and frankly, quite irrational. To repeat for Jax:
AMPS
in the context of boating means AMPS JAX, just like it does
everywhere
else.

No one in ANY industry (including boating) leaps to the foolish
assumption
that someone describing AMPS actually meant "Amps used per hour at
12.8
volts." To suggest otherwise demonstrates a serious lack of
understanding
of the basics of electricity. Someone that clueless has no business
offering an opinion here Jax. Not that being clueless has ever
stopped
you
before.

It's truly a pity that a worthwhile newsgroup is infected with a
dung
beetle like Jax. It pollutes it, and renders it much more difficult
to
sift through the grabage he spews. Even filtering him doesn't help,
as
the
responses (corrections) to his useless posts still filter through.

Sad really. Fortunately everyone can see by his posts, what and who
he
is.
This (hopefully) makes it obvious that people should ignore his bad
advice.

Wouldn't it be nice if Jax found a new interest and moved on to
infect
some other newsgroup instead? We can all dream.

but, b - a - t - t - e - r - y v - o - l - t - a - g - e does. check it
out, dougies. it really is that way.

From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/13/2004 11:03 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

I-D-I-O-T doesn't have any numbers in it.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
*I* am an idiot, dougies? how can you say that. After all, it was you
who got
confused by all those numbers.

From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/13/2004 10:23 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

idiot.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
now, now dougies. keep in mind it was *you* who felt that 12.8 volts
was
a
gross inaccurate figure. you wanted more accuracy and you got it. now
you
feel yourself confused by all those numbers. try this, dougies, think
of
a 12
volt battery as putting "just a little more than " 12 volts. you will
be
close
enough.

From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/13/2004 9:21 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

idiot.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
you are correct, of course dougies. using 12.8 volts as the
approximate
voltage of a battery is just plain irresponsible. The correct number
is
12.7835476589378 volts at 16.4797546429072 degrees centigrade and rel
humity at
57.00004748470008%, the first number plus/minus 0.56983456, the second
plus/minus 2.237899984 and the third plus/minus 40%.

dougies, you powerboters who are terrified of winds above 12 knots
slay
me.

From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/13/2004 8:19 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

All well spoken and right on the money. Incidently, defining AMPS
as related to 12.8 volts is silly. 12.8 volt is only rarely the actual
voltage
supplied.

Doug
s/v Callista

"James" wrote in message
l.com...
JAXAshby wrote:

rational discussion is not possible with you, dog pile, for if one
says
z
pickup truck is a Chevy, *you* insist there is no such thing. the
closest
thing is a Chevrolet utulity vehicle and everyone knows that is not
the
same.

fumb duck you are.

the rest of us, dog pile, will continue to use the common usage.


From: Jeff Morris Date: 12/13/2004
10:19
AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Thanks for a good laugh, jaxie! Even when you try to "clarify" and
give
the "formal definition" you get it backwards! What a putz!

Its gratifying to see that you have so completely devoted yourself
to
your craft. Every village needs an idiot, and you have perfected
the
art!


JAXAshby wrote:

follow closely, dougies, one step at time.
"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per
hour
at

12.8

volts".











I've browsed this newsgroup for a quite while. It has been most
informative.... most of the time.

However, there is one thing that truly pollutes the newsgroup and
renders
information less than usefull.

In a nutshell, has anyone else noticed that Jaxashby behaves like a
sociopath without a clue here? I am being quite serious.

Jax spouts off rudely, demonstrates a callous disregard for others
and
offers an inflated, remarkably misplaced, egocentric opinion of
himself.
Seems he rarely has a clue what the f#ck he is talking about either.

Somebody pointed out (correctly) that Amp HOURS is a measure of
battery
capacity and JAX begins feels it is his mission to begin his
response
with
the statement:

"dougies, are you related to dog pile jeffies? you talk just as
stew
ped.
Ask jeffie's wife to help you out here. follow closely, dougies,
one
step
at time."

These comments by Jax are deliberately intended to be rude and
insulting
right off the bat. I've noticed (as no doubt everyone else has) that
virutally EVERY post that Jax makes is rude and insulting. If you
gentle
reader doubt that fact, go back and look. Just look at his past
posts.
No
kidding.

Seriously Jax, you need professional help. You are behaving like a
sociopath. Not that you'd have the sense to seek it but you should.

Here's a hint Jax... your rudeness is just a lame attempt at feeding
your
sad and shallow ego. Sociopaths do that all the time. Your ego is in
the
toilet because you are clueless and it shows. No other reason. Ask
yourself why do you continually attempt to inflate your ego at the
expense
of others? Ever wonder why you are such a rude little M.F.? Look up
Sociopath online. Seriously.

Following that rude opening line Jax then adds :

"amps" when used in the context of boating means "amps used per hour
at
12.8 volts"

Let's correct Jax's OBVIOUS mis-statement right here and now.

AMPS in the context of boating means AMPS JAX, just like it does
everywhere else.

In the world of BOATING (as in every other industry) AMPS is a
measure
of
current flow. AMPS is used when you want to know how much current is
available for, or is being drawn by a device.

AMP HOURS is a measure of how many AMPS can be delivered per HOUR.
In
other words CAPACITY.

To suggest that somehow the BASICS of electrical theory and
convention
differ once electrical devices like batteries are deployed on boats
is
just plain stupid and frankly, quite irrational. To repeat for Jax:
AMPS
in the context of boating means AMPS JAX, just like it does
everywhere
else.

No one in ANY industry (including boating) leaps to the foolish
assumption
that someone describing AMPS actually meant "Amps used per hour at
12.8
volts." To suggest otherwise demonstrates a serious lack of
understanding
of the basics of electricity. Someone that clueless has no business
offering an opinion here Jax. Not that being clueless has ever
stopped
you
before.

It's truly a pity that a worthwhile newsgroup is infected with a
dung
beetle like Jax. It pollutes it, and renders it much more difficult
to
sift through the grabage he spews. Even filtering him doesn't help,
as
the
responses (corrections) to his useless posts still filter through.

Sad really. Fortunately everyone can see by his posts, what and who
he
is.
This (hopefully) makes it obvious that people should ignore his bad
advice.

Wouldn't it be nice if Jax found a new interest and moved on to
infect
some other newsgroup instead? We can all dream.

JAX, by your own words "to be remain ignorant one merely has to not listen"
You must be a very ignorant person...you listen to no one.

Eric

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
geof will not read this, but the essence of what he says is that should
one
want to remain ignorant one merely has to not listen.

works for him.

From: Geoff Schultz
Date: 12/13/2004 12:56 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

As I've stated before, simply use your kill file to automatically delete
posts from people that you don't want to read. If other people didn't
quote his posts in their replies, it would work great. It would be even
better if people didn't reply to his posts as it only feeds him. The
real
problem is that the articles degrade into a juvenile, name calling brawl
and become devoid of content. If I wanted that level of discussion, I
would read alt.sailing.asa.

So, if you don't know what a kill file is, or how to use one, read up on
it
and use it!

-- Geoff

A quick search of some shops here indicates that the cost is
approximately 1300$ these days. I don't know of the availability of
Walls products outside scandinavia, though.

--
C++: The power, elegance and simplicity of a hand grenade.

Just another note: this particular model runs on kerosene, not diesel.

--
C++: The power, elegance and simplicity of a hand grenade.

Welcome to our resident troll....

--
C++: The power, elegance and simplicity of a hand grenade.

eric, care to make note of anyone I killfile?

you have no value in the grand scheme of things, but even you I do not
killfile, in the hopes that somewhere, somehow, sometime you _might_ say
something of value. It is a long shot, but what the hell, I take it.

From: "Eric Currier"
Date: 12/14/2004 1:49 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: p1wvd.115502$tU4.26796@okepread06

JAX, by your own words "to be remain ignorant one merely has to not listen"
You must be a very ignorant person...you listen to no one.

Eric

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
geof will not read this, but the essence of what he says is that should
one
want to remain ignorant one merely has to not listen.

works for him.

From: Geoff Schultz
Date: 12/13/2004 12:56 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

As I've stated before, simply use your kill file to automatically delete
posts from people that you don't want to read. If other people didn't
quote his posts in their replies, it would work great. It would be even
better if people didn't reply to his posts as it only feeds him. The
real
problem is that the articles degrade into a juvenile, name calling brawl
and become devoid of content. If I wanted that level of discussion, I
would read alt.sailing.asa.

So, if you don't know what a kill file is, or how to use one, read up on
it
and use it!

-- Geoff

oh, oh. This is usually an indication that the unit has small, easily plugged
up holes in its burner.

Just another note: this particular model runs on kerosene, not diesel.

--
C++: The power, elegance and simplicity of a hand grenade.

What kind of holes are you talking about? This is a pot burner.

--
C++: The power, elegance and simplicity of a hand grenade.

so, why kero? fuel oil is cheaper and more readily available. also has
slightly more heat capacity.

What kind of holes are you talking about? This is a pot burner.

--
C++: The power, elegance and simplicity of a hand grenade.

"J" == JAXAshby writes:

J so, why kero? fuel oil is cheaper and more readily available. also has
J slightly more heat capacity.

What kind of holes are you talking about? This is a pot burner.

--
C++: The power, elegance and simplicity of a hand grenade.







Don't know, possibly the intended market, which is small sailboats,
often without a diesel engine. If you are really interested, you can
always ask the maker,

http://www.wallas.fi


--
C++: The power, elegance and simplicity of a hand grenade.

Courtney Thomas wrote:
Doug,

What is the MSRP on the Thermo-90 ?

Depends tremendously on where you get it & what you get with it. We got
a kit from a supply house in the midwest. All told the system cost us
about $4k by the time it was done; although I did not spend money
frivolously I think it would be possible to cut that by a respectable sum.

If you're down in Oriental, you should stop by some time and check out
the installation. We're at Northwest Creek down from New Bern. You'd be
welcome just for a friendly visit.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

To you guys who have these heaters, how big are your boats? Would a
system like these be better than a radiant heater (Dickenson or Sigmar
for example) on a 30' boat? Or would the added complexity outweigh any
added benefit?

Thanks

Cindy

Cindy Ballreich wrote:
To you guys who have these heaters, how big are your boats? Would a
system like these be better than a radiant heater (Dickenson or Sigmar
for example) on a 30' boat? Or would the added complexity outweigh any
added benefit?


Our boat is a 36' tug. Three seperate cabins plus a big head
compartment, which I specifically wanted HEAT in. A *real* cruiser
probably doesn't mind taking a shower with ice cubes, but I'm not that
tough!

For a 30' sailboat I think one of the radiant types would be plenty. I'd
consider routing the exhaust pipe through the head, too ;)

Another simple option is to add a bus heater to your engine. This is
very simple: a y-valve on the coolant loop between the water heater &
engine, a big radiator-type heat exchanger, and a fan. This will heat up
the cabin marvelously, but only when the engine is running. Cost about
$200, no holes to cut in the cabin top.

For all too short a while, I owned & cruised in a an old wooden racing
sloop from the 1930s. It had a Shipmate Skippy coal stove... cute and
very effective. Of course they don't make it any more, and coal (I used
self-lighting charcoal briquets) is nowhere near as convenient as diesel
or propane. But that warm old-timey atmosphere is cozy....

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

The smallest model of Espar would probably be a good fit for a
30' boat if you have the room to mount it, run the ductwork, intake,
exhaust, etc. I would think a small bulkhead mounted like the Dickinson
or a Force 10 may be a better choice. We had a Force 10 on our old
C&C 36 and it worked pretty well.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Cindy Ballreich" wrote in message
. com...
To you guys who have these heaters, how big are your boats? Would a system
like these be better than a radiant heater (Dickenson or Sigmar for
example) on a 30' boat? Or would the added complexity outweigh any added
benefit?

Thanks

Cindy

Doug,

Thanks for the invitation. I'd like to come by. I'm not in Oriental at
the moment but will be over the holidays.

How do I find you ? I don't know NW Ck.'s location.

Do you live aboard ? If not, how do I find you when I get there ?

My cell is 678 478-0425 but it doesn't work in Oriental but may in New
Bern. My email is .

Which boat ?

I just bought an Espar but may it use it for the house rather than the
boat :-) so....I'm still considering which system for the boat.

Cordially,
Courtney



DSK wrote:

Courtney Thomas wrote:

Doug,

What is the MSRP on the Thermo-90 ?


Depends tremendously on where you get it & what you get with it. We got
a kit from a supply house in the midwest. All told the system cost us
about $4k by the time it was done; although I did not spend money
frivolously I think it would be possible to cut that by a respectable sum.

If you're down in Oriental, you should stop by some time and check out
the installation. We're at Northwest Creek down from New Bern. You'd be
welcome just for a friendly visit.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King



--
s/v Mutiny
Rhodes Bounty II
lying Oriental, NC
WDB5619

Cindy Ballreich wrote:
To you guys who have these heaters, how big are your boats? Would a system
like these be better than a radiant heater (Dickenson or Sigmar for
example) on a 30' boat? Or would the added complexity outweigh any added
benefit?


With a Dickenson Newport I was able to keep my C&C 37 plenty warm at below
zero temperatures (centigrade that is, maybe -10-15F). I don't really think
you need a forced air system in a 30' boat although it would be nice.
Simpler to use but quite a bit more expensive. I wouldn't say they are all
that complex to install but maintenance/servicing would be.
For occasional heating I think I would go with a bulkhead mounted propane
heater. Easy to use and very clean. No soot on the deck or needing removal
from the unit. If you are planning for continuous use over many days I
would go for a diesel unit. Keep in mind you will need to locate a day tank
above it to gravity feed fuel or else use an electric pump from your main
fuel tank (my choice).

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Cindy Ballreich wrote:
To you guys who have these heaters, how big are your boats? Would a
system like these be better than a radiant heater (Dickenson or Sigmar
for example) on a 30' boat? Or would the added complexity outweigh any
added benefit?


Our boat is a 36' tug. Three seperate cabins plus a big head compartment,
which I specifically wanted HEAT in. A *real* cruiser probably doesn't
mind taking a shower with ice cubes, but I'm not that tough!

For a 30' sailboat I think one of the radiant types would be plenty. I'd
consider routing the exhaust pipe through the head, too ;)

Another simple option is to add a bus heater to your engine. This is very
simple: a y-valve on the coolant loop between the water heater & engine, a
big radiator-type heat exchanger, and a fan. This will heat up the cabin
marvelously, but only when the engine is running. Cost about $200, no
holes to cut in the cabin top.

For all too short a while, I owned & cruised in a an old wooden racing
sloop from the 1930s. It had a Shipmate Skippy coal stove... cute and very
effective. Of course they don't make it any more, and coal (I used
self-lighting charcoal briquets) is nowhere near as convenient as diesel
or propane. But that warm old-timey atmosphere is cozy....

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Here's another question about forced air deisel heaters. Do they work
when the boat is heeled? I know that some of the radiant heaters will
not work if the boat is heeled beyond a certain point. I assume that the
forced air heaters have the same problem?

Cindy


--
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Reach me using firstname at lastname dot net

Cindy,

I've never noticed any problems operating our Espar while
heeled although we haven't used it all that much while underway
(maybe a couple hundred hours). Also, maintenance hasn;t been any
problem either. In the almost six years we have owned it, it has never
missed a beat. No unreasonable sooting, never replaced the glow
plug, etc. Perhaps our installation is less suseptable to problems
and our fuel is clean. Had to replace some ducting last weekend,
but that turned out to be related to a stuffing box leak that sprayed
sal****er onto a section of the ducting. Remaining ducting looked
as good as new (I replaced it anyway as long as I was into it).
For your 30' foot boat though, I doubt if such a system is justified.
The cost alone should make up your mind.

Doug
s/v CAllista
..
"Cindy Ballreich" wrote in message
...
Here's another question about forced air deisel heaters. Do they work when
the boat is heeled? I know that some of the radiant heaters will not work
if the boat is heeled beyond a certain point. I assume that the forced air
heaters have the same problem?

Cindy


--
The email address above is a spam trap. Don't expect a response.
Reach me using firstname at lastname dot net

I'm pretty much sold on the Sigmar 100 or 120. My husband likes the idea
of forced air heat. (I think he has visions of a cockpit hand warming
duct!) I agree that the cost and hassle of installation will outweigh
the benefit - especially since we already have a vent for a solid fuel
heater.

Cindy


Doug Dotson wrote:
Cindy,

I've never noticed any problems operating our Espar while
heeled although we haven't used it all that much while underway
(maybe a couple hundred hours). Also, maintenance hasn;t been any
problem either. In the almost six years we have owned it, it has never
missed a beat. No unreasonable sooting, never replaced the glow
plug, etc. Perhaps our installation is less suseptable to problems
and our fuel is clean. Had to replace some ducting last weekend,
but that turned out to be related to a stuffing box leak that sprayed
sal****er onto a section of the ducting. Remaining ducting looked
as good as new (I replaced it anyway as long as I was into it).
For your 30' foot boat though, I doubt if such a system is justified.
The cost alone should make up your mind.

Doug
s/v CAllista


--
The email address above is a spam trap. Don't expect a response.
Reach me using firstname at lastname dot net

I don't know anything about the Sigmar, but the smallest ESPAR
is about $3500 as I recall. I think gloves are probably cheaper
than a cockpit vent :)

Doug
s/v Callista

"Cindy Ballreich" wrote in message
...
I'm pretty much sold on the Sigmar 100 or 120. My husband likes the idea
of forced air heat. (I think he has visions of a cockpit hand warming
duct!) I agree that the cost and hassle of installation will outweigh the
benefit - especially since we already have a vent for a solid fuel heater.

Cindy


Doug Dotson wrote:
Cindy,

I've never noticed any problems operating our Espar while
heeled although we haven't used it all that much while underway
(maybe a couple hundred hours). Also, maintenance hasn;t been any
problem either. In the almost six years we have owned it, it has never
missed a beat. No unreasonable sooting, never replaced the glow
plug, etc. Perhaps our installation is less suseptable to problems
and our fuel is clean. Had to replace some ducting last weekend,
but that turned out to be related to a stuffing box leak that sprayed
sal****er onto a section of the ducting. Remaining ducting looked
as good as new (I replaced it anyway as long as I was into it).
For your 30' foot boat though, I doubt if such a system is justified.
The cost alone should make up your mind.

Doug
s/v CAllista


--
The email address above is a spam trap. Don't expect a response.
Reach me using firstname at lastname dot net

Doug Dotson wrote:
I don't know anything about the Sigmar, but the smallest ESPAR
is about $3500 as I recall.

Probably a bit less if you hunt around among the discount outlets.

... I think gloves are probably cheaper
than a cockpit vent :)

Yeah, but there's no substitute for a nice hot draft... a cup of hot
chocolate is also much cheaper and very warming!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"Cindy Ballreich" wrote in message
...
I'm pretty much sold on the Sigmar 100 or 120. My husband likes the idea
of forced air heat. (I think he has visions of a cockpit hand warming
duct!) I agree that the cost and hassle of installation will outweigh the
benefit - especially since we already have a vent for a solid fuel heater.

Cindy


Doug Dotson wrote:
Cindy,

I've never noticed any problems operating our Espar while
heeled although we haven't used it all that much while underway
(maybe a couple hundred hours). Also, maintenance hasn;t been any
problem either. In the almost six years we have owned it, it has never
missed a beat. No unreasonable sooting, never replaced the glow
plug, etc. Perhaps our installation is less suseptable to problems
and our fuel is clean. Had to replace some ducting last weekend,
but that turned out to be related to a stuffing box leak that sprayed
sal****er onto a section of the ducting. Remaining ducting looked
as good as new (I replaced it anyway as long as I was into it).
For your 30' foot boat though, I doubt if such a system is justified.
The cost alone should make up your mind.

Doug
s/v CAllista


--
The email address above is a spam trap. Don't expect a response.
Reach me using firstname at lastname dot net

A Sigmar 100 is probably big enough for a 30' boat. I think it is rated
4500 BTU?
Its better to run these units near full output to avoid soot production so I
think you are better off with a smaller unit than one which is puts out too
much heat when turned up. With the Sigmar you can install/run the unit
without the "balanced draft" feature. This avoids a second hole in the
cabin top and more exhaust pipe. The balanced draft feature is supposed to
allow the heater to operate more consistently in strong, or gusty, winds.
As for the Espar operating while heeled, I've not read anything on this but
I don't see why this would be a problem. I'm sure the fuel pump can manage
a bit of uphill work and I don't see why the burner or fan would care about
heel.

I'm thinking you might want some actual facts on your real-life question,
and while I admit I didn't read all the group replies, I read enough to see
that several were less than helpful.

There are more than two types of diesel heater - there are those that are
more like fireplaces. These are mounted on an inside bulkhead with a
combination air intake/exhaust pipe to the outside. I've never had a boat
with the wall space for one of these, but I know they can be very effective-
quiet, cozy and nice looking. I've seen some wood burners that get pretty
smoky on deck, but a buddy has a diesel model that is clean and works great.

I have owned and installed diesel forced-air furnaces on two boats - a San
Juan 28 and a J/32. The first was an Espar D3L and the second is a Webasto
AT3500. Both companies also make similar-sized "Hydronic" furnaces that
distribute the heat with hot water, but I have not used one of those. I
chose the forced air models because they are less expensive, and because the
tradeoffs in installation actually favored the air models in my case.
Here's why:

The water models _are_ much easier to route the water pipes compared to the
large hot-air ducts. However, at the point of use (cabin outlets) you need
to install a heat exchanger (aka radiator, Red Dot heater, etc) that is very
large and requires 12V power to run a fan. In both cases that part was
actually harder to fit in tight spaces than the ducting. As another poster
mentioned there is the advantage of being able to route engine cooling water
through the system to provide "free" heat while under way. However, my
forced air furnace works just fine while under way also. One concern I
would have with a complex hot water system (engine, hot water heater,
furnace) is more places where a leak could occur, and losing engine water
can be very expensive compared to losing cabin heat.

Also, both models have the same requirements for combustion air intake and
exhaust air outlet pipes, as well as fuel pumps, fuel line, furnace mounting
and wiring, thermostat location and wiring - in other words lots of things
to install besides the heat distribution. However, your boat may have
different open spaces (or obstructions) that would make the forced-air
models impossible to install. You need to figure that one out.

Now about batteries. My boats have been fine with a pair of group 24s (in
the San Juan 28) and group 27s (in the J/32). I like to stay at anchor for
a couple of days at a time, and by the third day I'm needing a charge,
especially if I run the refrigerator full time. I use Gel batteries, which
are rated at 87 AH, not the typical 105 AH as found with wetted cell
batteries. I cruise in Puget Sound and British Columbia, more in summer but
also often in winter months. The winters here are fairly mild, with
temperatures on the water usually in the 40s or higher. One tradeoff is
that I use the furnace more and the refrigerator less in the winter,
vice-versa in summer. When I use the heater I'm comfortable with cabin
temps around 65*. I did upgrade the alternator to provide a little shorter
charging time, and I would like to add a third battery just for engine
starting so that I can avoid worrying about discharging the two group 27s
beyond the point of starting failure. I do have a good battery charge
monitor so I can keep track of the charge levels.

You can look up fuel and power consumption numbers on these furnaces and
I've found them to be reasonably accurate claims. Don't overlook the fact
that these things do cycle on and off to maintain a temperature, so the
average power/fuel consumption is less than what they say for continuous
running. On my boat on a cold day the furnace will first run continuously
and then frequently until the boat really warms up, which takes a fairly
long time when first going on board. However after several hours the
internal objects, people, etc. store some heat and the furnace doesn't need
to work so hard to keep it comfortable.

I also have an opinion about Espar vs. Webasto, and some experience with the
reliability of each. I'll be glad to share if interested.

Hope this helps!

Don
--
http://www.sailj32.com/
The Unofficial J/32 Owner's Web

"Courtney Thomas" wrote in message
...
I'm told that there are at least 2 types of boat heater, both of which
burn diesel; one using a blower to disperse the heat and the other heating
a circulating liquid.

What are the experiences of the group with both, please ?

Thank you,
Courtney
--
s/v Mutiny
Rhodes Bounty II
lying Oriental, NC
WDB5619