Doug,

What is the MSRP on the Thermo-90 ?

Thanks,
Courtney



DSK wrote:

Courtney Thomas wrote:

I'm told that there are at least 2 types of boat heater, both of which
burn diesel; one using a blower to disperse the heat and the other
heating a circulating liquid.

What are the experiences of the group with both, please ?


We installed a Webasto Thermo-90 coolant type heating system and are
very happy with it.

http://www.webasto.us/press/en/am_tr...aters_821.html

The unit itself is amazingly compact, with a built in circulating pump,
combustion air fan, and control circuitry. I don't know if the system
overall is any more compact or easier to route than a forced air system;
the water piping & it's insualtion & expansion tank along with the heat
exchanger & fan, is quite bulky. With the added wiring & switches, I'm
sure it's more complicated & a bigger job to install.

Ours went on the aft engine room bulkhead where it is possible to access
the unit for maintenance (not that it should need any) and still have it
enclosed.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...42005030smuktF
(plus the next two)

It's extremely quiet, unless you listen for the clicking of the fuel
pump, you can't tell it's running. The heat exchanger fans are not that
quiet but they are not obtrusively noisy... we leave the forward heater
fan running on low all night. The system heats up in about 10 minutes
and is putting out good warm air in 5 ~ 6 min. The furnace unit draws
between 1 and 7 AH, the fans from 0.3 to 5; so we could run the unit all
night on batteries when anchored out.

I see a few advantages to the coolant type system. It's a bit more
efficient. The heaters can be installed in a wide variety of places...
we have 5... so we can have the heat on full in the head, for example,
and only a little warmth in the aft cabin. Ours is not (yet)
cross-connected to the engine to run on engine heat, but I also think it
would be a big advantage to be able to heat the engine up to operating
temp more often over the winter. BTW the mfg'er does not recommend this
cross connect as it can have flow problems not to mention air pockets or
leaks that would not damage the furnace but would be disastrous for the
engine.

Hope this helps.

Fresh Breezes
Doug King




--
s/v Mutiny
Rhodes Bounty II
lying Oriental, NC
WDB5619

Courtney Thomas wrote:
Doug,

What is the MSRP on the Thermo-90 ?

Depends tremendously on where you get it & what you get with it. We got
a kit from a supply house in the midwest. All told the system cost us
about $4k by the time it was done; although I did not spend money
frivolously I think it would be possible to cut that by a respectable sum.

If you're down in Oriental, you should stop by some time and check out
the installation. We're at Northwest Creek down from New Bern. You'd be
welcome just for a friendly visit.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

To you guys who have these heaters, how big are your boats? Would a
system like these be better than a radiant heater (Dickenson or Sigmar
for example) on a 30' boat? Or would the added complexity outweigh any
added benefit?

Thanks

Cindy

Cindy Ballreich wrote:
To you guys who have these heaters, how big are your boats? Would a
system like these be better than a radiant heater (Dickenson or Sigmar
for example) on a 30' boat? Or would the added complexity outweigh any
added benefit?


Our boat is a 36' tug. Three seperate cabins plus a big head
compartment, which I specifically wanted HEAT in. A *real* cruiser
probably doesn't mind taking a shower with ice cubes, but I'm not that
tough!

For a 30' sailboat I think one of the radiant types would be plenty. I'd
consider routing the exhaust pipe through the head, too

Another simple option is to add a bus heater to your engine. This is
very simple: a y-valve on the coolant loop between the water heater &
engine, a big radiator-type heat exchanger, and a fan. This will heat up
the cabin marvelously, but only when the engine is running. Cost about
$200, no holes to cut in the cabin top.

For all too short a while, I owned & cruised in a an old wooden racing
sloop from the 1930s. It had a Shipmate Skippy coal stove... cute and
very effective. Of course they don't make it any more, and coal (I used
self-lighting charcoal briquets) is nowhere near as convenient as diesel
or propane. But that warm old-timey atmosphere is cozy....

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Cindy Ballreich wrote:
To you guys who have these heaters, how big are your boats? Would a system
like these be better than a radiant heater (Dickenson or Sigmar for
example) on a 30' boat? Or would the added complexity outweigh any added
benefit?


With a Dickenson Newport I was able to keep my C&C 37 plenty warm at below
zero temperatures (centigrade that is, maybe -10-15F). I don't really think
you need a forced air system in a 30' boat although it would be nice.
Simpler to use but quite a bit more expensive. I wouldn't say they are all
that complex to install but maintenance/servicing would be.
For occasional heating I think I would go with a bulkhead mounted propane
heater. Easy to use and very clean. No soot on the deck or needing removal
from the unit. If you are planning for continuous use over many days I
would go for a diesel unit. Keep in mind you will need to locate a day tank
above it to gravity feed fuel or else use an electric pump from your main
fuel tank (my choice).

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Cindy Ballreich wrote:
To you guys who have these heaters, how big are your boats? Would a
system like these be better than a radiant heater (Dickenson or Sigmar
for example) on a 30' boat? Or would the added complexity outweigh any
added benefit?


Our boat is a 36' tug. Three seperate cabins plus a big head compartment,
which I specifically wanted HEAT in. A *real* cruiser probably doesn't
mind taking a shower with ice cubes, but I'm not that tough!

For a 30' sailboat I think one of the radiant types would be plenty. I'd
consider routing the exhaust pipe through the head, too

Another simple option is to add a bus heater to your engine. This is very
simple: a y-valve on the coolant loop between the water heater & engine, a
big radiator-type heat exchanger, and a fan. This will heat up the cabin
marvelously, but only when the engine is running. Cost about $200, no
holes to cut in the cabin top.

For all too short a while, I owned & cruised in a an old wooden racing
sloop from the 1930s. It had a Shipmate Skippy coal stove... cute and very
effective. Of course they don't make it any more, and coal (I used
self-lighting charcoal briquets) is nowhere near as convenient as diesel
or propane. But that warm old-timey atmosphere is cozy....

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Here's another question about forced air deisel heaters. Do they work
when the boat is heeled? I know that some of the radiant heaters will
not work if the boat is heeled beyond a certain point. I assume that the
forced air heaters have the same problem?

Cindy


--
The email address above is a spam trap. Don't expect a response.
Reach me using firstname at lastname dot net

Cindy,

I've never noticed any problems operating our Espar while
heeled although we haven't used it all that much while underway
(maybe a couple hundred hours). Also, maintenance hasn;t been any
problem either. In the almost six years we have owned it, it has never
missed a beat. No unreasonable sooting, never replaced the glow
plug, etc. Perhaps our installation is less suseptable to problems
and our fuel is clean. Had to replace some ducting last weekend,
but that turned out to be related to a stuffing box leak that sprayed
sal****er onto a section of the ducting. Remaining ducting looked
as good as new (I replaced it anyway as long as I was into it).
For your 30' foot boat though, I doubt if such a system is justified.
The cost alone should make up your mind.

Doug
s/v CAllista
..
"Cindy Ballreich" wrote in message
...
Here's another question about forced air deisel heaters. Do they work when
the boat is heeled? I know that some of the radiant heaters will not work
if the boat is heeled beyond a certain point. I assume that the forced air
heaters have the same problem?

Cindy


--
The email address above is a spam trap. Don't expect a response.
Reach me using firstname at lastname dot net

The smallest model of Espar would probably be a good fit for a
30' boat if you have the room to mount it, run the ductwork, intake,
exhaust, etc. I would think a small bulkhead mounted like the Dickinson
or a Force 10 may be a better choice. We had a Force 10 on our old
C&C 36 and it worked pretty well.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Cindy Ballreich" wrote in message
. com...
To you guys who have these heaters, how big are your boats? Would a system
like these be better than a radiant heater (Dickenson or Sigmar for
example) on a 30' boat? Or would the added complexity outweigh any added
benefit?

Thanks

Cindy

Doug,

Thanks for the invitation. I'd like to come by. I'm not in Oriental at
the moment but will be over the holidays.

How do I find you ? I don't know NW Ck.'s location.

Do you live aboard ? If not, how do I find you when I get there ?

My cell is 678 478-0425 but it doesn't work in Oriental but may in New
Bern. My email is .

Which boat ?

I just bought an Espar but may it use it for the house rather than the
boat :-) so....I'm still considering which system for the boat.

Cordially,
Courtney



DSK wrote:

Courtney Thomas wrote:

Doug,

What is the MSRP on the Thermo-90 ?


Depends tremendously on where you get it & what you get with it. We got
a kit from a supply house in the midwest. All told the system cost us
about $4k by the time it was done; although I did not spend money
frivolously I think it would be possible to cut that by a respectable sum.

If you're down in Oriental, you should stop by some time and check out
the installation. We're at Northwest Creek down from New Bern. You'd be
welcome just for a friendly visit.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King



--
s/v Mutiny
Rhodes Bounty II
lying Oriental, NC
WDB5619