ah, yessssss. 3,000 amps of battery capacity is about right.

btw, ***10*** ??? minutes per hour of run time for a heater? The outside temps
dropped to, what, 68*? Most people don't turn on a heater until overnight
temps go below 50*.



From: "Doug Dotson" AMcom
Date: 12/12/2004 3:45 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:


"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Would be nice to know what brand that was.

Espar.

Mine
draws 17A while starting (maybe a minute) and 5-7A while running.

that is one hell of a lot of amps overnight. Even a much greater bunch of
amps
if you don't move the next day.

Not really, it only runs maybe 10 minutes every hour. 20-30 AH per day for
heating is not too bad. Not sure what moving has to do with anything unless
you mean moving towards a warmer climate.
.
btw, you might wish to actually measure just how many amps your system
*really*
burns. That brand new system on the boat would run out the about 50 to
60 amp
capacity of the brand new Group 25 in less than about 5 hours. (note a
Grp 27
rated in about 105 amps, gives up about half that before it is effectively
dead. That is the way battery ratings work.)

I know. Such a small battery is not suitable for any forced air heating
system. Perhaps a Force 10 or Dickinson would be a choice for a boat
that does not support a serious battery bank.

That is the way battery ratings work.)

I know. Such a small battery is not suitable for any forced air heating
system.

doug, a brand new, fully-charged Grp 27 battery will give up about 50 to 60
amps before it is dead. Even more when going to flat dead. That Espar ran
that brand new, fully-charged Grp 27 battery flat dead in about 6 hours. Flat
dead.

of course, it was not 68* outside. More like low 40's.

http://www.wallas.fi/index_eng.php?group=2&type=2&ID=1

For a small sailboat this is a good choice if you want to minimize
current consumption. We have one in our Maxi 77, and with a small solar
panel to charge our battery we can in practice run it as much as we
want without worrying.

--
C++: The power, elegance and simplicity of a hand grenade.

Courtney Thomas wrote:
I'm told that there are at least 2 types of boat heater, both of which
burn diesel; one using a blower to disperse the heat and the other
heating a circulating liquid.

What are the experiences of the group with both, please ?

We installed a Webasto Thermo-90 coolant type heating system and are
very happy with it.

http://www.webasto.us/press/en/am_tr...aters_821.html

The unit itself is amazingly compact, with a built in circulating pump,
combustion air fan, and control circuitry. I don't know if the system
overall is any more compact or easier to route than a forced air system;
the water piping & it's insualtion & expansion tank along with the heat
exchanger & fan, is quite bulky. With the added wiring & switches, I'm
sure it's more complicated & a bigger job to install.

Ours went on the aft engine room bulkhead where it is possible to access
the unit for maintenance (not that it should need any) and still have it
enclosed.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...42005030smuktF
(plus the next two)

It's extremely quiet, unless you listen for the clicking of the fuel
pump, you can't tell it's running. The heat exchanger fans are not that
quiet but they are not obtrusively noisy... we leave the forward heater
fan running on low all night. The system heats up in about 10 minutes
and is putting out good warm air in 5 ~ 6 min. The furnace unit draws
between 1 and 7 AH, the fans from 0.3 to 5; so we could run the unit all
night on batteries when anchored out.

I see a few advantages to the coolant type system. It's a bit more
efficient. The heaters can be installed in a wide variety of places...
we have 5... so we can have the heat on full in the head, for example,
and only a little warmth in the aft cabin. Ours is not (yet)
cross-connected to the engine to run on engine heat, but I also think it
would be a big advantage to be able to heat the engine up to operating
temp more often over the winter. BTW the mfg'er does not recommend this
cross connect as it can have flow problems not to mention air pockets or
leaks that would not damage the furnace but would be disastrous for the
engine.

Hope this helps.

Fresh Breezes
Doug King

Doug,

What is the MSRP on the Thermo-90 ?

Thanks,
Courtney



DSK wrote:

Courtney Thomas wrote:

I'm told that there are at least 2 types of boat heater, both of which
burn diesel; one using a blower to disperse the heat and the other
heating a circulating liquid.

What are the experiences of the group with both, please ?


We installed a Webasto Thermo-90 coolant type heating system and are
very happy with it.

http://www.webasto.us/press/en/am_tr...aters_821.html

The unit itself is amazingly compact, with a built in circulating pump,
combustion air fan, and control circuitry. I don't know if the system
overall is any more compact or easier to route than a forced air system;
the water piping & it's insualtion & expansion tank along with the heat
exchanger & fan, is quite bulky. With the added wiring & switches, I'm
sure it's more complicated & a bigger job to install.

Ours went on the aft engine room bulkhead where it is possible to access
the unit for maintenance (not that it should need any) and still have it
enclosed.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...42005030smuktF
(plus the next two)

It's extremely quiet, unless you listen for the clicking of the fuel
pump, you can't tell it's running. The heat exchanger fans are not that
quiet but they are not obtrusively noisy... we leave the forward heater
fan running on low all night. The system heats up in about 10 minutes
and is putting out good warm air in 5 ~ 6 min. The furnace unit draws
between 1 and 7 AH, the fans from 0.3 to 5; so we could run the unit all
night on batteries when anchored out.

I see a few advantages to the coolant type system. It's a bit more
efficient. The heaters can be installed in a wide variety of places...
we have 5... so we can have the heat on full in the head, for example,
and only a little warmth in the aft cabin. Ours is not (yet)
cross-connected to the engine to run on engine heat, but I also think it
would be a big advantage to be able to heat the engine up to operating
temp more often over the winter. BTW the mfg'er does not recommend this
cross connect as it can have flow problems not to mention air pockets or
leaks that would not damage the furnace but would be disastrous for the
engine.

Hope this helps.

Fresh Breezes
Doug King




--
s/v Mutiny
Rhodes Bounty II
lying Oriental, NC
WDB5619

Courtney Thomas wrote:
Doug,

What is the MSRP on the Thermo-90 ?

Depends tremendously on where you get it & what you get with it. We got
a kit from a supply house in the midwest. All told the system cost us
about $4k by the time it was done; although I did not spend money
frivolously I think it would be possible to cut that by a respectable sum.

If you're down in Oriental, you should stop by some time and check out
the installation. We're at Northwest Creek down from New Bern. You'd be
welcome just for a friendly visit.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

To you guys who have these heaters, how big are your boats? Would a
system like these be better than a radiant heater (Dickenson or Sigmar
for example) on a 30' boat? Or would the added complexity outweigh any
added benefit?

Thanks

Cindy

Cindy Ballreich wrote:
To you guys who have these heaters, how big are your boats? Would a
system like these be better than a radiant heater (Dickenson or Sigmar
for example) on a 30' boat? Or would the added complexity outweigh any
added benefit?


Our boat is a 36' tug. Three seperate cabins plus a big head
compartment, which I specifically wanted HEAT in. A *real* cruiser
probably doesn't mind taking a shower with ice cubes, but I'm not that
tough!

For a 30' sailboat I think one of the radiant types would be plenty. I'd
consider routing the exhaust pipe through the head, too

Another simple option is to add a bus heater to your engine. This is
very simple: a y-valve on the coolant loop between the water heater &
engine, a big radiator-type heat exchanger, and a fan. This will heat up
the cabin marvelously, but only when the engine is running. Cost about
$200, no holes to cut in the cabin top.

For all too short a while, I owned & cruised in a an old wooden racing
sloop from the 1930s. It had a Shipmate Skippy coal stove... cute and
very effective. Of course they don't make it any more, and coal (I used
self-lighting charcoal briquets) is nowhere near as convenient as diesel
or propane. But that warm old-timey atmosphere is cozy....

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

The smallest model of Espar would probably be a good fit for a
30' boat if you have the room to mount it, run the ductwork, intake,
exhaust, etc. I would think a small bulkhead mounted like the Dickinson
or a Force 10 may be a better choice. We had a Force 10 on our old
C&C 36 and it worked pretty well.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Cindy Ballreich" wrote in message
. com...
To you guys who have these heaters, how big are your boats? Would a system
like these be better than a radiant heater (Dickenson or Sigmar for
example) on a 30' boat? Or would the added complexity outweigh any added
benefit?

Thanks

Cindy

Doug,

Thanks for the invitation. I'd like to come by. I'm not in Oriental at
the moment but will be over the holidays.

How do I find you ? I don't know NW Ck.'s location.

Do you live aboard ? If not, how do I find you when I get there ?

My cell is 678 478-0425 but it doesn't work in Oriental but may in New
Bern. My email is .

Which boat ?

I just bought an Espar but may it use it for the house rather than the
boat :-) so....I'm still considering which system for the boat.

Cordially,
Courtney



DSK wrote:

Courtney Thomas wrote:

Doug,

What is the MSRP on the Thermo-90 ?


Depends tremendously on where you get it & what you get with it. We got
a kit from a supply house in the midwest. All told the system cost us
about $4k by the time it was done; although I did not spend money
frivolously I think it would be possible to cut that by a respectable sum.

If you're down in Oriental, you should stop by some time and check out
the installation. We're at Northwest Creek down from New Bern. You'd be
welcome just for a friendly visit.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King



--
s/v Mutiny
Rhodes Bounty II
lying Oriental, NC
WDB5619