| Page 1 of 2 | 1 | 2 |
|
|
Anchoring: Kellets versus Buoys?
Hi all
Having looked at Chapman's 'Piloting, Seamanship and Small Boat Handling' (now available in your local library for UK readers), I was a bit surprised to see recommended that a mooring-type buoy be used rather than attaching some other flotation to the intact anchor chain (one more link to go wrong). I think Hinz discusses this in his books but I haven't managed to get hold of any in the UK. I know this method of anchoring is for extreme conditions but has anyone any experience with it or the alternative method of using weights slid down the rode. I would guess there is a better argument for avoiding shock loading than there is for anchor dragging and that the buoy method is better at doing this. I am assuming all chain here due to chafe resistance. Regards Steve Remove defcv if etc. |
Aa kellet and a float have oposite effects on the cantenary of the rode. A
float deflects the cantanary upwards while a kellet deflects it downwards. A downward deflection increases the angle of attack of the anchor's flukes thus increasing the net holding power under steady moderate load. If anything a float will reduce the angle of attack. While this reduces the ultimate holding power somewhat the float will react faster over a greater distance to shock loads. Once the tension on the rode is high enough to remove the cantenary the difference is pretty minimal. In an anchorage with a short fetch exposed to a more or less steady wind load I would prefer a kellet. With a longer fetch generating larger swells the float may be the better choice. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com "Marc Auslander" wrote in message ... I have read, and it seems plausible, that in bad enough conditions, a kellet does no good because it can't really deflect the rode very much. And it may cause trouble if it starts to bounce up and down - pulling up on the rode on the upswings. I would think a mooring ball would similarly fail under extreme load. (Steve Smith) writes: Hi all Having looked at Chapman's 'Piloting, Seamanship and Small Boat Handling' (now available in your local library for UK readers), I was a bit surprised to see recommended that a mooring-type buoy be used rather than attaching some other flotation to the intact anchor chain (one more link to go wrong). I think Hinz discusses this in his books but I haven't managed to get hold of any in the UK. I know this method of anchoring is for extreme conditions but has anyone any experience with it or the alternative method of using weights slid down the rode. I would guess there is a better argument for avoiding shock loading than there is for anchor dragging and that the buoy method is better at doing this. I am assuming all chain here due to chafe resistance. Regards Steve Remove defcv if etc. -- |
|
"Rodney Myrvaagnes" wrote in message
... Kellets increase effective scope. Buoys decrease it. Yes, that's the key. Kellets are only really useful when you can't put out enough scope. Most anchors are optimized for an upward pull at 8 to 12 degrees, so they shouldn't pull out if the scope is 7 to 1 or better, especially if the there's a healthy bit of chain. The other interesting property of a kellet is that boats that horse around an anchor may be quieter if a kellet is lowered down so that it rests on the bottom. This approximates a hammerlock setup, which is a small anchor on very short scope added to keep the bow stable. When I had a Nonsuch I kept a dinghy anchor for that purpose. And while a kellet may provide some shock absorbing in a limited scope, moderate wind situation, it gives little advantage if longer scope is used. (And I'm sure we all know by now, a caternary, as the term is used in anchoring, has virtually no shock absorbing quality.) Also, the OP mentioned it in terms of an all chain rode, but I've almost always heard of it used with a mixed chain/rope rode. A buoyed anchor rode is used by fishing boats anchoring in a large sea - I'm not sure its relevant to cruising boats. I suppose it might be handy in an area of coral heads to keep the scope small in lighter air. |
Marc Auslander wrote:
I have read, and it seems plausible, that in bad enough conditions, a kellet does no good because it can't really deflect the rode very much. And it may cause trouble if it starts to bounce up and down - pulling up on the rode on the upswings. I would think a mooring ball would similarly fail under extreme load. Strange how similar in effect kellet and float are, and how different. The ball sinks, deflecting the snubbing chain / painter junction to a degree adjustable at the painter end. Once it floats, it implies that mooring forces are minimalised. Any tangle occurs at the surface. A kellet can only effect snubbing to one degree, unless it slides and is adjustable. Once it rests on the bottom, it implies that the mooring forces are minimalised. There is also a tangle possible, at the bottom. A longer float painter can produce a larger and more gentle anti-snubbing force in either analysis. Under the most demanding conditions, both a kellet and a float with a long painter totalling sufficient scope are best, wether at anchor or mooring weight. A strong nylon painter is preferrable to a light floating painter, except if the tide and wind conspire, until the floating painter is wound around the keel root. That is probably easier to clean up than is a tangle on the bottom. Perhaps a cart before the horse? A float with a long painter and a kellet on the painter between the float and the boat? Perhaps a daisy chain of floats with kellets suspended barely above the bottom? Perhaps even a clothesline or string, with which to bring the moored boat's stern within wading distance of the shore, or floating dock out to the boat? (I draw 2'-10".) I presently can draw the dinghy out to the mooring using a messenger cable instead of oars, but the dinghy is too small for that to be really convenient. Cable ferries are common out here. We do get some medium sized wakes. This ties in with a desire to provide isolated bifilar hydro to my moored boat, perhaps via a mooring raft made of tires on wheels? That would require a swivel above the float and a strong stainless steel messenger wire to the shore, such as I presently use to retrieve the sunken mooring chain after the ice goes out. A two wire extension cord, isolated, in fresh water, may work out well. How much current would you expect a similar circuit to draw if the outlet was dropped in salt water? How dangerous would you expect such a mishap to be? I get a feeling that might not be a bad plan, and see that there may be no tangle, despite wind and tide conspiracies, except I cannot really trust what such a daisy chain might do under Murphy's influence. I'm gonna give it a try. Any experiences? Any bets? Perhaps pennant is a better word? Terry K (Steve Smith) writes: Hi all Having looked at Chapman's 'Piloting, Seamanship and Small Boat Handling' (now available in your local library for UK readers), I was a bit surprised to see recommended that a mooring-type buoy be used rather than attaching some other flotation to the intact anchor chain (one more link to go wrong). I think Hinz discusses this in his books but I haven't managed to get hold of any in the UK. I know this method of anchoring is for extreme conditions but has anyone any experience with it or the alternative method of using weights slid down the rode. I would guess there is a better argument for avoiding shock loading than there is for anchor dragging and that the buoy method is better at doing this. I am assuming all chain here due to chafe resistance. Regards Steve Remove defcv if etc. |
Actually neither the ball no the kellet has any effect in extreme
conditions. Nor is chain desirable under such coditions. The problems is that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode. Neither kellet nor ball makes any difference...its straight. At that point nylon is a lot better than chain because of its elasticity. A long nylon rode keeps the anchor from tearing your boat up as a chain rode can do. The downside of course is you really need to maintain a nylon rode under such conditions...rigging chaff protection or letting out small increments to minimize chaff. Hinz deals with all this in his books. Jim Donohue "Steve Smith" wrote in message om... Hi all Having looked at Chapman's 'Piloting, Seamanship and Small Boat Handling' (now available in your local library for UK readers), I was a bit surprised to see recommended that a mooring-type buoy be used rather than attaching some other flotation to the intact anchor chain (one more link to go wrong). I think Hinz discusses this in his books but I haven't managed to get hold of any in the UK. I know this method of anchoring is for extreme conditions but has anyone any experience with it or the alternative method of using weights slid down the rode. I would guess there is a better argument for avoiding shock loading than there is for anchor dragging and that the buoy method is better at doing this. I am assuming all chain here due to chafe resistance. Regards Steve Remove defcv if etc. |
"Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05...
The problems is that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode. Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was anchored out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. On the other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both because I didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce, and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak of the blow. To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain, use a chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer out a few more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if there's much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows from a beating. I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to experiment with both. Who has used which? Amgine http://wiki.saewyc.net/ |
Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was anchored
out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. The point still holds, in heavy weather conditions, when things are at their worst, an all chain rode or a chain/rope rode will be stretched taut and a kettle will do no good. Paul "Amgine" wrote in message om... "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05... The problems is that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode. Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was anchored out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. On the other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both because I didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce, and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak of the blow. To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain, use a chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer out a few more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if there's much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows from a beating. I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to experiment with both. Who has used which? Amgine http://wiki.saewyc.net/ |
"Amgine" wrote in message om... "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05... The problems is that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode. Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was anchored out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. On the other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both because I didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce, and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak of the blow. To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain, use a chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer out a few more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if there's much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows from a beating. I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to experiment with both. Who has used which? Amgine http://wiki.saewyc.net/ See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On the ABYC hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the cantenary has 1 foot of "droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots. If your boat is smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher. Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain boats. He points out that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying something in high winds. They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to make sleep difficult. Jim Donohue |
Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost non-existent) extension
available to an all chain system. What its really needed is enough nylon to allow for 5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch. "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05... "Amgine" wrote in message om... "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05... The problems is that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode. Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was anchored out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. On the other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both because I didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce, and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak of the blow. To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain, use a chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer out a few more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if there's much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows from a beating. I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to experiment with both. Who has used which? Amgine http://wiki.saewyc.net/ See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On the ABYC hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the cantenary has 1 foot of "droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots. If your boat is smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher. Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain boats. He points out that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying something in high winds. They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to make sleep difficult. Jim Donohue |
"Jeff Morris" wrote in message ...
Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost non-existent) extension available to an all chain system. What its really needed is enough nylon to allow for 5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch. See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On the ABYC hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the cantenary has 1 foot of "droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots. If your boat is smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher. Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain boats. He points out that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying something in high winds. They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to make sleep difficult. Jim Donohue I will look for the Hinz book. I can attest to the noise, though only rarely is it enough to keep me up (the waves and wind, on the other hand, keep me hopping on a breezy night.) IMO, from my experience using a *long* snubber of 30-40 foot of small nylon, a chain rode can be made quite springy. The only problem I had was pitching to a single anchor when I had too much slack in the chain. After listening to it beat up the bow for a couple minutes I hauled in most of the slack and things were great for the rest of the night, but the damage to gelcoat was already done and resulted in painting the entire topsides. Something I haven't tried, but a fellow club member does, is using an unusually small diameter line and a longer than usual scope. I have watched him anchor in a fairly open range with what I consider to be a grossly inadequate anchor on 3/8 nylon at about 8:1, with no problems. He claims the smaller diameter has a high enough breaking strength for the job, but is stretchier in the gusts/waves and thus both gentler to ride to and lower jerk loads to break the anchor out. Has anyone had any first-hand experience with Kellets or Buoys? Amgine http://wiki.saewyc.net/ |
did any of you clowns EVER hear of a
mooring??????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????? ??????? From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/5/2004 9:10 AM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: "Rodney Myrvaagnes" wrote in message .. . Kellets increase effective scope. Buoys decrease it. Yes, that's the key. Kellets are only really useful when you can't put out enough scope. Most anchors are optimized for an upward pull at 8 to 12 degrees, so they shouldn't pull out if the scope is 7 to 1 or better, especially if the there's a healthy bit of chain. The other interesting property of a kellet is that boats that horse around an anchor may be quieter if a kellet is lowered down so that it rests on the bottom. This approximates a hammerlock setup, which is a small anchor on very short scope added to keep the bow stable. When I had a Nonsuch I kept a dinghy anchor for that purpose. And while a kellet may provide some shock absorbing in a limited scope, moderate wind situation, it gives little advantage if longer scope is used. (And I'm sure we all know by now, a caternary, as the term is used in anchoring, has virtually no shock absorbing quality.) Also, the OP mentioned it in terms of an all chain rode, but I've almost always heard of it used with a mixed chain/rope rode. A buoyed anchor rode is used by fishing boats anchoring in a large sea - I'm not sure its relevant to cruising boats. I suppose it might be handy in an area of coral heads to keep the scope small in lighter air. |
Terry, don't confuse these guys with facts. They were going off in all
directions at one time and here you come along and make sense. You will have them spinning in circles for weeks. From: Terry Spragg Date: 11/5/2004 2:37 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Marc Auslander wrote: I have read, and it seems plausible, that in bad enough conditions, a kellet does no good because it can't really deflect the rode very much. And it may cause trouble if it starts to bounce up and down - pulling up on the rode on the upswings. I would think a mooring ball would similarly fail under extreme load. Strange how similar in effect kellet and float are, and how different. The ball sinks, deflecting the snubbing chain / painter junction to a degree adjustable at the painter end. Once it floats, it implies that mooring forces are minimalised. Any tangle occurs at the surface. A kellet can only effect snubbing to one degree, unless it slides and is adjustable. Once it rests on the bottom, it implies that the mooring forces are minimalised. There is also a tangle possible, at the bottom. A longer float painter can produce a larger and more gentle anti-snubbing force in either analysis. Under the most demanding conditions, both a kellet and a float with a long painter totalling sufficient scope are best, wether at anchor or mooring weight. A strong nylon painter is preferrable to a light floating painter, except if the tide and wind conspire, until the floating painter is wound around the keel root. That is probably easier to clean up than is a tangle on the bottom. Perhaps a cart before the horse? A float with a long painter and a kellet on the painter between the float and the boat? Perhaps a daisy chain of floats with kellets suspended barely above the bottom? Perhaps even a clothesline or string, with which to bring the moored boat's stern within wading distance of the shore, or floating dock out to the boat? (I draw 2'-10".) I presently can draw the dinghy out to the mooring using a messenger cable instead of oars, but the dinghy is too small for that to be really convenient. Cable ferries are common out here. We do get some medium sized wakes. This ties in with a desire to provide isolated bifilar hydro to my moored boat, perhaps via a mooring raft made of tires on wheels? That would require a swivel above the float and a strong stainless steel messenger wire to the shore, such as I presently use to retrieve the sunken mooring chain after the ice goes out. A two wire extension cord, isolated, in fresh water, may work out well. How much current would you expect a similar circuit to draw if the outlet was dropped in salt water? How dangerous would you expect such a mishap to be? I get a feeling that might not be a bad plan, and see that there may be no tangle, despite wind and tide conspiracies, except I cannot really trust what such a daisy chain might do under Murphy's influence. I'm gonna give it a try. Any experiences? Any bets? Perhaps pennant is a better word? Terry K (Steve Smith) writes: Hi all Having looked at Chapman's 'Piloting, Seamanship and Small Boat Handling' (now available in your local library for UK readers), I was a bit surprised to see recommended that a mooring-type buoy be used rather than attaching some other flotation to the intact anchor chain (one more link to go wrong). I think Hinz discusses this in his books but I haven't managed to get hold of any in the UK. I know this method of anchoring is for extreme conditions but has anyone any experience with it or the alternative method of using weights slid down the rode. I would guess there is a better argument for avoiding shock loading than there is for anchor dragging and that the buoy method is better at doing this. I am assuming all chain here due to chafe resistance. Regards Steve Remove defcv if etc. |
Actually neither the ball no the kellet has any effect in extreme
conditions. I have seen mooring balls work just fine in upwards of sustained storm force winds. HEAVY kellets (25# each, and often two or three on a rode) are sometimes used to overcome the inherent dangers of an all chain rode, at least up to 35+ knots of wind, then chain and nylon is used. |
The downside of
course is you really need to maintain a nylon rode under such conditions...rigging chaff protection or letting out small increments to minimize chaff. nylon rode in heavy weather conditions should have "safety" lines attached to take the chafe, sometime two safety lines. A safety line takes 100% of the chafe load until it gives up (if it should give up) at which point the second safety line takes 100% of the chafe load, etc. safety lines are rolling hitched onto the nylon (or chain ****IF**** the safety line is looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooong enough to give shock attenuation to the chain, i.e. safety line lengths of 50 to 100 feet), the first safety line tight, with the second line loose as a back up in case the first safety line gives up, the anchor rode loose upline from the safety line(s). A proper safety line will be wormed (if twisted line), parceled and served with Spectra line (Spectra fishing line is a good source) to form a serious hard spot where the safety line goes through the chock. |
To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain, use a
chain hook on about 30-40' ... doesn't give all that much shock attenuation. much better is double triple that amount of nylon. specs of rope manufactureres give nylon stretch at least than about 4% (many writers/posters who didn't bother read the spec sheets talk of 15% to 25% stretch, but the line won't go that except sometimes under breaking conditions), except for special mountain climbing ropes and "plait". ... of light nylon laid line and veer out a few more feet of chain. |
ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to 250' of nylon,
except under line breaking conditions. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost non-existent) extension available to an all chain system. What its really needed is enough nylon to allow for 5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch. "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05... "Amgine" wrote in message om... "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05... The problems is that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode. Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was anchored out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. On the other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both because I didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce, and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak of the blow. To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain, use a chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer out a few more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if there's much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows from a beating. I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to experiment with both. Who has used which? Amgine http://wiki.saewyc.net/ See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On the ABYC hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the cantenary has 1 foot of "droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots. If your boat is smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher. Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain boats. He points out that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying something in high winds. They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to make sleep difficult. Jim Donohue |
check out "plait" line. even more stretch without reaching
breaking/deformation limits. From: (Amgine) Date: 11/9/2004 5:25 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: "Jeff Morris" wrote in message ... Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost non-existent) extension available to an all chain system. What its really needed is enough nylon to allow for 5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch. See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On the ABYC hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the cantenary has 1 foot of "droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots. If your boat is smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher. Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain boats. He points out that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying something in high winds. They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to make sleep difficult. Jim Donohue I will look for the Hinz book. I can attest to the noise, though only rarely is it enough to keep me up (the waves and wind, on the other hand, keep me hopping on a breezy night.) IMO, from my experience using a *long* snubber of 30-40 foot of small nylon, a chain rode can be made quite springy. The only problem I had was pitching to a single anchor when I had too much slack in the chain. After listening to it beat up the bow for a couple minutes I hauled in most of the slack and things were great for the rest of the night, but the damage to gelcoat was already done and resulted in painting the entire topsides. Something I haven't tried, but a fellow club member does, is using an unusually small diameter line and a longer than usual scope. I have watched him anchor in a fairly open range with what I consider to be a grossly inadequate anchor on 3/8 nylon at about 8:1, with no problems. He claims the smaller diameter has a high enough breaking strength for the job, but is stretchier in the gusts/waves and thus both gentler to ride to and lower jerk loads to break the anchor out. Has anyone had any first-hand experience with Kellets or Buoys? Amgine http://wiki.saewyc.net/ |
Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says at 15% of
breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers. But what would they know? http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety factor, but for a snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the range of 30 to 60 feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues that led me to stop using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to 250' of nylon, except under line breaking conditions. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost non-existent) extension available to an all chain system. What its really needed is enough nylon to allow for 5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch. "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05... "Amgine" wrote in message om... "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05... The problems is that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode. Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was anchored out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. On the other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both because I didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce, and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak of the blow. To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain, use a chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer out a few more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if there's much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows from a beating. I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to experiment with both. Who has used which? Amgine http://wiki.saewyc.net/ See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On the ABYC hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the cantenary has 1 foot of "droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots. If your boat is smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher. Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain boats. He points out that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying something in high winds. They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to make sleep difficult. Jim Donohue |
jeffies, knock it off. you cain't read nuthin's no how.
4%, squathead. 4 frickin %, on twisted nylon before deformation (squathead, ask your wife what that means). Do not -- I repeat, do frickin' NOT!!! -- post here again without your wife's express approval! From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says at 15% of breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers. But what would they know? http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety factor, but for a snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the range of 30 to 60 feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues that led me to stop using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to 250' of nylon, except under line breaking conditions. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost non-existent) extension available to an all chain system. What its really needed is enough nylon to allow for 5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch. "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05... "Amgine" wrote in message om... "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05... The problems is that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode. Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was anchored out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. On the other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both because I didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce, and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak of the blow. To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain, use a chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer out a few more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if there's much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows from a beating. I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to experiment with both. Who has used which? Amgine http://wiki.saewyc.net/ See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On the ABYC hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the cantenary has 1 foot of "droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots. If your boat is smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher. Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain boats. He points out that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying something in high winds. They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to make sleep difficult. Jim Donohue |
jeffies, are you a lying sack of squat, or just too stupid to read your own
cites? 4%, dood, your cite states, just like I said. Unless, of course, *you* don't know what destructive elongation is. What did you say your degree is in? we would like to hear you say it again. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says at 15% of breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers. But what would they know? http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety factor, but for a snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the range of 30 to 60 feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues that led me to stop using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to 250' of nylon, except under line breaking conditions. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost non-existent) extension available to an all chain system. What its really needed is enough nylon to allow for 5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch. "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05... "Amgine" wrote in message om... "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05... The problems is that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode. Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was anchored out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. On the other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both because I didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce, and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak of the blow. To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain, use a chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer out a few more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if there's much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows from a beating. I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to experiment with both. Who has used which? Amgine http://wiki.saewyc.net/ See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On the ABYC hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the cantenary has 1 foot of "droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots. If your boat is smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher. Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain boats. He points out that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying something in high winds. They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to make sleep difficult. Jim Donohue |
You seem to be having serious comprehension problems, jaxie. Time for another refill
of meds. The chart in the New England Ropes brochure is quite clear, at least for anyone with a 4th grade education. They don't bother to mention elongation below 4%. The chart shows "working elongation" of over 20% for filament nylon 3-strand. The terms "destructive" and "deformation" are never mentioned. There is some feeling that after a major stress, perhaps over 25% of tensile strength, nylon rode should be replaced. This not a problem for a snubber, which can be considered sacrificial. This makes a good case for downgrading a primary rode and replacing it after a major blow. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... jeffies, are you a lying sack of squat, or just too stupid to read your own cites? 4%, dood, your cite states, just like I said. Unless, of course, *you* don't know what destructive elongation is. What did you say your degree is in? we would like to hear you say it again. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says at 15% of breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers. But what would they know? http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety factor, but for a snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the range of 30 to 60 feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues that led me to stop using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to 250' of nylon, except under line breaking conditions. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost non-existent) extension available to an all chain system. What its really needed is enough nylon to allow for 5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch. "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05... "Amgine" wrote in message om... "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05... The problems is that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode. Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was anchored out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. On the other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both because I didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce, and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak of the blow. To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain, use a chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer out a few more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if there's much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows from a beating. I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to experiment with both. Who has used which? Amgine http://wiki.saewyc.net/ See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On the ABYC hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the cantenary has 1 foot of "droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots. If your boat is smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher. Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain boats. He points out that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying something in high winds. They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to make sleep difficult. Jim Donohue |
|
I've been reading this in passing and just tried to figure out what had
been talked about in the past. What's this about 30-60' snubbers? Huh? I'd say that my snubber and virtually every snubber that I've ever seen is in the 10-15' range. Who's got a 30-60' snubber and why would anyone ever suggest that you need one? -- Geoff "Jeff Morris" wrote in : You seem to be having serious comprehension problems, jaxie. Time for another refill of meds. The chart in the New England Ropes brochure is quite clear, at least for anyone with a 4th grade education. They don't bother to mention elongation below 4%. The chart shows "working elongation" of over 20% for filament nylon 3-strand. The terms "destructive" and "deformation" are never mentioned. There is some feeling that after a major stress, perhaps over 25% of tensile strength, nylon rode should be replaced. This not a problem for a snubber, which can be considered sacrificial. This makes a good case for downgrading a primary rode and replacing it after a major blow. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... jeffies, are you a lying sack of squat, or just too stupid to read your own cites? 4%, dood, your cite states, just like I said. Unless, of course, *you* don't know what destructive elongation is. What did you say your degree is in? we would like to hear you say it again. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says at 15% of breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers. But what would they know? http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety factor, but for a snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the range of 30 to 60 feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues that led me to stop using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to 250' of nylon, except under line breaking conditions. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost non-existent) extension available to an all chain system. What its really needed is enough nylon to allow for 5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch. "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05... "Amgine" wrote in message om... "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05... The problems is that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode. Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was anchored out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. On the other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both because I didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce, and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak of the blow. To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain, use a chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer out a few more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if there's much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows from a beating. I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to experiment with both. Who has used which? Amgine http://wiki.saewyc.net/ See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On the ABYC hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the cantenary has 1 foot of "droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots. If your boat is smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher. Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain boats. He points out that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying something in high winds. They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to make sleep difficult. Jim Donohue |
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
... .... How many kellets, and how much nylon rode, do they use on a supertanker? Or the QE2? They don't turn their engines off in a blow either. Paul |
A 10 foot snubber is near useless for real shock absorbing. If you allow for 25%
elongation before deformation, then you have 2.5 feet of extension. This may be enough absorb some minor shock, but does very little in a serious situation. I'm thinking of the Cabo San Lucas storm where boat were caught in major waves off he beach and some boats had deck gear pulled out by all chain rodes. When I use all chain I usually have about 15 of snubber deployed, but I never had to worry about 50+ knots with waves. If I found myself in that situation I would deploy a much longer snubber. Now, I use a mixed chain/nylon rode so I always have a substantial length of nylon. Having a catamaran, I also rig a bridle, so there's a lot of nylon out. Hinz is a bit vague on the appropriate length for "riding stopper" as he calls it. However, one can guess from his discussion of catenaries that a fair amount of extension should be provided. Remember in a high wind much of the available extension is already used my he static force of the wind. You still need several feet to hand a surge.h "Geoff Schultz" wrote in message 7... I've been reading this in passing and just tried to figure out what had been talked about in the past. What's this about 30-60' snubbers? Huh? I'd say that my snubber and virtually every snubber that I've ever seen is in the 10-15' range. Who's got a 30-60' snubber and why would anyone ever suggest that you need one? -- Geoff "Jeff Morris" wrote in : You seem to be having serious comprehension problems, jaxie. Time for another refill of meds. The chart in the New England Ropes brochure is quite clear, at least for anyone with a 4th grade education. They don't bother to mention elongation below 4%. The chart shows "working elongation" of over 20% for filament nylon 3-strand. The terms "destructive" and "deformation" are never mentioned. There is some feeling that after a major stress, perhaps over 25% of tensile strength, nylon rode should be replaced. This not a problem for a snubber, which can be considered sacrificial. This makes a good case for downgrading a primary rode and replacing it after a major blow. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... jeffies, are you a lying sack of squat, or just too stupid to read your own cites? 4%, dood, your cite states, just like I said. Unless, of course, *you* don't know what destructive elongation is. What did you say your degree is in? we would like to hear you say it again. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says at 15% of breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers. But what would they know? http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety factor, but for a snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the range of 30 to 60 feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues that led me to stop using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to 250' of nylon, except under line breaking conditions. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost non-existent) extension available to an all chain system. What its really needed is enough nylon to allow for 5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch. "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05... "Amgine" wrote in message om... "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05... The problems is that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode. Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was anchored out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. On the other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both because I didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce, and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak of the blow. To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain, use a chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer out a few more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if there's much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows from a beating. I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to experiment with both. Who has used which? Amgine http://wiki.saewyc.net/ See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On the ABYC hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the cantenary has 1 foot of "droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots. If your boat is smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher. Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain boats. He points out that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying something in high winds. They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to make sleep difficult. Jim Donohue |
jeffies, go READ it again, this time let your wife explain it to you.
what did you say your degree was in again? From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/10/2004 8:53 AM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: You seem to be having serious comprehension problems, jaxie. Time for another refill of meds. The chart in the New England Ropes brochure is quite clear, at least for anyone with a 4th grade education. They don't bother to mention elongation below 4%. The chart shows "working elongation" of over 20% for filament nylon 3-strand. The terms "destructive" and "deformation" are never mentioned. There is some feeling that after a major stress, perhaps over 25% of tensile strength, nylon rode should be replaced. This not a problem for a snubber, which can be considered sacrificial. This makes a good case for downgrading a primary rode and replacing it after a major blow. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... jeffies, are you a lying sack of squat, or just too stupid to read your own cites? 4%, dood, your cite states, just like I said. Unless, of course, *you* don't know what destructive elongation is. What did you say your degree is in? we would like to hear you say it again. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says at 15% of breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers. But what would they know? http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety factor, but for a snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the range of 30 to 60 feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues that led me to stop using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to 250' of nylon, except under line breaking conditions. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost non-existent) extension available to an all chain system. What its really needed is enough nylon to allow for 5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch. "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05... "Amgine" wrote in message om... "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05... The problems is that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode. Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was anchored out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. On the other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both because I didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce, and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak of the blow. To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain, use a chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer out a few more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if there's much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows from a beating. I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to experiment with both. Who has used which? Amgine http://wiki.saewyc.net/ See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On the ABYC hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the cantenary has 1 foot of "droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots. If your boat is smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher. Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain boats. He points out that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying something in high winds. They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to make sleep difficult. Jim Donohue |
Geoff, you have witnessed bad anchoring practise, that is all. Too short
snubbers break in a blow, or -- if they are oversized -- they act like all chain and pull the anchor loose (or the deck fittings). I've been reading this in passing and just tried to figure out what had been talked about in the past. What's this about 30-60' snubbers? Huh? I'd say that my snubber and virtually every snubber that I've ever seen is in the 10-15' range. Who's got a 30-60' snubber and why would anyone ever suggest that you need one? -- Geoff "Jeff Morris" wrote in : You seem to be having serious comprehension problems, jaxie. Time for another refill of meds. The chart in the New England Ropes brochure is quite clear, at least for anyone with a 4th grade education. They don't bother to mention elongation below 4%. The chart shows "working elongation" of over 20% for filament nylon 3-strand. The terms "destructive" and "deformation" are never mentioned. There is some feeling that after a major stress, perhaps over 25% of tensile strength, nylon rode should be replaced. This not a problem for a snubber, which can be considered sacrificial. This makes a good case for downgrading a primary rode and replacing it after a major blow. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... jeffies, are you a lying sack of squat, or just too stupid to read your own cites? 4%, dood, your cite states, just like I said. Unless, of course, *you* don't know what destructive elongation is. What did you say your degree is in? we would like to hear you say it again. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says at 15% of breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers. But what would they know? http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety factor, but for a snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the range of 30 to 60 feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues that led me to stop using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to 250' of nylon, except under line breaking conditions. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost non-existent) extension available to an all chain system. What its really needed is enough nylon to allow for 5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch. "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05... "Amgine" wrote in message om... "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05... The problems is that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode. Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was anchored out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. On the other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both because I didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce, and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak of the blow. To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain, use a chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer out a few more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if there's much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows from a beating. I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to experiment with both. Who has used which? Amgine http://wiki.saewyc.net/ See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On the ABYC hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the cantenary has 1 foot of "droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots. If your boat is smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher. Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain boats. He points out that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying something in high winds. They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to make sleep difficult. Jim Donohue |
you need, usually, more than 10 feet of stretch. That is well more than 150
feet of nylon. In a blow. In lite winds, you don't even need a cinder block for an anchor. A 10 foot snubber is near useless for real shock absorbing. If you allow for 25% elongation before deformation, then you have 2.5 feet of extension. This may be enough absorb some minor shock, but does very little in a serious situation. I'm thinking of the Cabo San Lucas storm where boat were caught in major waves off he beach and some boats had deck gear pulled out by all chain rodes. When I use all chain I usually have about 15 of snubber deployed, but I never had to worry about 50+ knots with waves. If I found myself in that situation I would deploy a much longer snubber. Now, I use a mixed chain/nylon rode so I always have a substantial length of nylon. Having a catamaran, I also rig a bridle, so there's a lot of nylon out. Hinz is a bit vague on the appropriate length for "riding stopper" as he calls it. However, one can guess from his discussion of catenaries that a fair amount of extension should be provided. Remember in a high wind much of the available extension is already used my he static force of the wind. You still need several feet to hand a surge.h "Geoff Schultz" wrote in message . 17... I've been reading this in passing and just tried to figure out what had been talked about in the past. What's this about 30-60' snubbers? Huh? I'd say that my snubber and virtually every snubber that I've ever seen is in the 10-15' range. Who's got a 30-60' snubber and why would anyone ever suggest that you need one? -- Geoff "Jeff Morris" wrote in : You seem to be having serious comprehension problems, jaxie. Time for another refill of meds. The chart in the New England Ropes brochure is quite clear, at least for anyone with a 4th grade education. They don't bother to mention elongation below 4%. The chart shows "working elongation" of over 20% for filament nylon 3-strand. The terms "destructive" and "deformation" are never mentioned. There is some feeling that after a major stress, perhaps over 25% of tensile strength, nylon rode should be replaced. This not a problem for a snubber, which can be considered sacrificial. This makes a good case for downgrading a primary rode and replacing it after a major blow. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... jeffies, are you a lying sack of squat, or just too stupid to read your own cites? 4%, dood, your cite states, just like I said. Unless, of course, *you* don't know what destructive elongation is. What did you say your degree is in? we would like to hear you say it again. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says at 15% of breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers. But what would they know? http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety factor, but for a snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the range of 30 to 60 feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues that led me to stop using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to 250' of nylon, except under line breaking conditions. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost non-existent) extension available to an all chain system. What its really needed is enough nylon to allow for 5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch. "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05... "Amgine" wrote in message om... "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05... The problems is that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode. Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was anchored out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. On the other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both because I didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce, and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak of the blow. To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain, use a chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer out a few more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if there's much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows from a beating. I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to experiment with both. Who has used which? Amgine http://wiki.saewyc.net/ See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On the ABYC hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the cantenary has 1 foot of "droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots. If your boat is smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher. Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain boats. He points out that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying something in high winds. They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to make sleep difficult. Jim Donohue |
Hinz is a bit vague on the appropriate length for "riding stopper" as he
calls it. jeffies, I am not sure why you feel the need to quote Hinz on this issue. This is VERY simple physics. |
They use their hats when a blow is expected. They put them on and leave.
Simple. If you don't understand that metaphor, think "searoom" From: Wayne.B Date: 11/10/2004 9:31 AM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: On 10 Nov 2004 00:26:11 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote: HEAVY kellets (25# each, and often two or three on a rode) are sometimes used to overcome the inherent dangers of an all chain rode, at least up to 35+ knots of wind, then chain and nylon is used. =================================== How many kellets, and how much nylon rode, do they use on a supertanker? Or the QE2? |
Read what, jaxie? The chart is very clear that the "working elongation" of nylon is
up to 25%. Are you confusing "working elongation" with "destructive deformation"? Or perhaps you don't know the difference between nylon and polypropylene. Are you really claiming the nylon 3-strand is destroyed when its stretched over 4%? And you expect anyone to believe that you've ever been on a boat? "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... jeffies, go READ it again, this time let your wife explain it to you. what did you say your degree was in again? From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/10/2004 8:53 AM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: You seem to be having serious comprehension problems, jaxie. Time for another refill of meds. The chart in the New England Ropes brochure is quite clear, at least for anyone with a 4th grade education. They don't bother to mention elongation below 4%. The chart shows "working elongation" of over 20% for filament nylon 3-strand. The terms "destructive" and "deformation" are never mentioned. There is some feeling that after a major stress, perhaps over 25% of tensile strength, nylon rode should be replaced. This not a problem for a snubber, which can be considered sacrificial. This makes a good case for downgrading a primary rode and replacing it after a major blow. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... jeffies, are you a lying sack of squat, or just too stupid to read your own cites? 4%, dood, your cite states, just like I said. Unless, of course, *you* don't know what destructive elongation is. What did you say your degree is in? we would like to hear you say it again. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says at 15% of breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers. But what would they know? http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety factor, but for a snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the range of 30 to 60 feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues that led me to stop using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to 250' of nylon, except under line breaking conditions. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost non-existent) extension available to an all chain system. What its really needed is enough nylon to allow for 5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch. "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05... "Amgine" wrote in message om... "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05... The problems is that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode. Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was anchored out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. On the other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both because I didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce, and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak of the blow. To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain, use a chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer out a few more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if there's much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows from a beating. I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to experiment with both. Who has used which? Amgine http://wiki.saewyc.net/ See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On the ABYC hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the cantenary has 1 foot of "droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots. If your boat is smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher. Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain boats. He points out that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying something in high winds. They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to make sleep difficult. Jim Donohue |
jeffies, go read the damned thing. then read it again, and again and again.
then if you STILL don't understand what it says, go look at plaited rope vs elongation, and THEN look at springy mountain climbing rope. 4 frickin' %, jeffies. get your wife to explain it to you. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/10/2004 8:17 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Read what, jaxie? The chart is very clear that the "working elongation" of nylon is up to 25%. Are you confusing "working elongation" with "destructive deformation"? Or perhaps you don't know the difference between nylon and polypropylene. Are you really claiming the nylon 3-strand is destroyed when its stretched over 4%? And you expect anyone to believe that you've ever been on a boat? "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... jeffies, go READ it again, this time let your wife explain it to you. what did you say your degree was in again? From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/10/2004 8:53 AM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: You seem to be having serious comprehension problems, jaxie. Time for another refill of meds. The chart in the New England Ropes brochure is quite clear, at least for anyone with a 4th grade education. They don't bother to mention elongation below 4%. The chart shows "working elongation" of over 20% for filament nylon 3-strand. The terms "destructive" and "deformation" are never mentioned. There is some feeling that after a major stress, perhaps over 25% of tensile strength, nylon rode should be replaced. This not a problem for a snubber, which can be considered sacrificial. This makes a good case for downgrading a primary rode and replacing it after a major blow. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... jeffies, are you a lying sack of squat, or just too stupid to read your own cites? 4%, dood, your cite states, just like I said. Unless, of course, *you* don't know what destructive elongation is. What did you say your degree is in? we would like to hear you say it again. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says at 15% of breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers. But what would they know? http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety factor, but for a snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the range of 30 to 60 feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues that led me to stop using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to 250' of nylon, except under line breaking conditions. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost non-existent) extension available to an all chain system. What its really needed is enough nylon to allow for 5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch. "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05... "Amgine" wrote in message om... "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05... The problems is that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode. Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was anchored out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. On the other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both because I didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce, and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak of the blow. To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain, use a chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer out a few more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if there's much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows from a beating. I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to experiment with both. Who has used which? Amgine http://wiki.saewyc.net/ See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On the ABYC hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the cantenary has 1 foot of "droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots. If your boat is smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher. Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain boats. He points out that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying something in high winds. They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to make sleep difficult. Jim Donohue |
Not always
JAXAshby wrote: They use their hats when a blow is expected. They put them on and leave. Simple. If you don't understand that metaphor, think "searoom" From: Wayne.B Date: 11/10/2004 9:31 AM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: On 10 Nov 2004 00:26:11 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote: HEAVY kellets (25# each, and often two or three on a rode) are sometimes used to overcome the inherent dangers of an all chain rode, at least up to 35+ knots of wind, then chain and nylon is used. =================================== How many kellets, and how much nylon rode, do they use on a supertanker? Or the QE2? |
no, of course not. Those with 4x layer aluminum foil helmets are having sex
with small furry animals. From: otnmbrd Date: 11/10/2004 9:32 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: .net Not always JAXAshby wrote: They use their hats when a blow is expected. They put them on and leave. Simple. If you don't understand that metaphor, think "searoom" From: Wayne.B Date: 11/10/2004 9:31 AM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: On 10 Nov 2004 00:26:11 GMT, (JAXAshby) wrote: HEAVY kellets (25# each, and often two or three on a rode) are sometimes used to overcome the inherent dangers of an all chain rode, at least up to 35+ knots of wind, then chain and nylon is used. =================================== How many kellets, and how much nylon rode, do they use on a supertanker? Or the QE2? |
I was right, you don't know the difference between nylon and polypropylene. Are you
really claiming nylon fails after stretching 4%? Why do you think NE Ropes says nylon 3-strand has "high elongation"? Here's the link again. Nylon 3-strand: 15% working elongation at 15% tensile strength. (OK, maybe 14%) http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... jeffies, go read the damned thing. then read it again, and again and again. then if you STILL don't understand what it says, go look at plaited rope vs elongation, and THEN look at springy mountain climbing rope. 4 frickin' %, jeffies. get your wife to explain it to you. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/10/2004 8:17 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Read what, jaxie? The chart is very clear that the "working elongation" of nylon is up to 25%. Are you confusing "working elongation" with "destructive deformation"? Or perhaps you don't know the difference between nylon and polypropylene. Are you really claiming the nylon 3-strand is destroyed when its stretched over 4%? And you expect anyone to believe that you've ever been on a boat? "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... jeffies, go READ it again, this time let your wife explain it to you. what did you say your degree was in again? From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/10/2004 8:53 AM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: You seem to be having serious comprehension problems, jaxie. Time for another refill of meds. The chart in the New England Ropes brochure is quite clear, at least for anyone with a 4th grade education. They don't bother to mention elongation below 4%. The chart shows "working elongation" of over 20% for filament nylon 3-strand. The terms "destructive" and "deformation" are never mentioned. There is some feeling that after a major stress, perhaps over 25% of tensile strength, nylon rode should be replaced. This not a problem for a snubber, which can be considered sacrificial. This makes a good case for downgrading a primary rode and replacing it after a major blow. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... jeffies, are you a lying sack of squat, or just too stupid to read your own cites? 4%, dood, your cite states, just like I said. Unless, of course, *you* don't know what destructive elongation is. What did you say your degree is in? we would like to hear you say it again. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says at 15% of breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers. But what would they know? http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety factor, but for a snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the range of 30 to 60 feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues that led me to stop using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to 250' of nylon, except under line breaking conditions. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost non-existent) extension available to an all chain system. What its really needed is enough nylon to allow for 5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch. "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05.. . "Amgine" wrote in message om... "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05... The problems is that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode. Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was anchored out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. On the other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both because I didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce, and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak of the blow. To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain, use a chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer out a few more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if there's much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows from a beating. I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to experiment with both. Who has used which? Amgine http://wiki.saewyc.net/ See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On the ABYC hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the cantenary has 1 foot of "droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots. If your boat is smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher. Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain boats. He points out that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying something in high winds. They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to make sleep difficult. Jim Donohue |
JAXAshby wrote: no, of course not. Those with 4x layer aluminum foil helmets are having sex with small furry animals. From: otnmbrd Date: 11/10/2004 9:32 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: .net Not always JAXAshby wrote: They use their hats when a blow is expected. They put them on and leave. Simple. If you don't understand that metaphor, think "searoom" Typical response, considering your highly limited experience and knowledge. otn |
Steve,
I have read much of but not the entire thread (life to live...), but the other putative benefit of a buoy in the rode is that the bow of the boat won't be subjected to such violent forces as it pitches up and down in waves. The rode as attached to the boat is closer to horizontal, so doesn't jerk the boat down so hard on every rising wave as when the rode as attached to the boat is more vertical. So I've read!! ==== Charles T. Low www.boatdocking.com ==== "Steve Smith" wrote in message om... Hi all ... surprised to see recommended that a mooring-type buoy be used rather than attaching some other flotation to the intact anchor chain (one more link to go wrong). |
jeffies, stay tied to the dock. again. you are lost to this universe. still.
this subject is way beyond you. as always. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/10/2004 9:45 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: I was right, you don't know the difference between nylon and polypropylene. Are you really claiming nylon fails after stretching 4%? Why do you think NE Ropes says nylon 3-strand has "high elongation"? Here's the link again. Nylon 3-strand: 15% working elongation at 15% tensile strength. (OK, maybe 14%) http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... jeffies, go read the damned thing. then read it again, and again and again. then if you STILL don't understand what it says, go look at plaited rope vs elongation, and THEN look at springy mountain climbing rope. 4 frickin' %, jeffies. get your wife to explain it to you. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/10/2004 8:17 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Read what, jaxie? The chart is very clear that the "working elongation" of nylon is up to 25%. Are you confusing "working elongation" with "destructive deformation"? Or perhaps you don't know the difference between nylon and polypropylene. Are you really claiming the nylon 3-strand is destroyed when its stretched over 4%? And you expect anyone to believe that you've ever been on a boat? "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... jeffies, go READ it again, this time let your wife explain it to you. what did you say your degree was in again? From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/10/2004 8:53 AM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: You seem to be having serious comprehension problems, jaxie. Time for another refill of meds. The chart in the New England Ropes brochure is quite clear, at least for anyone with a 4th grade education. They don't bother to mention elongation below 4%. The chart shows "working elongation" of over 20% for filament nylon 3-strand. The terms "destructive" and "deformation" are never mentioned. There is some feeling that after a major stress, perhaps over 25% of tensile strength, nylon rode should be replaced. This not a problem for a snubber, which can be considered sacrificial. This makes a good case for downgrading a primary rode and replacing it after a major blow. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... jeffies, are you a lying sack of squat, or just too stupid to read your own cites? 4%, dood, your cite states, just like I said. Unless, of course, *you* don't know what destructive elongation is. What did you say your degree is in? we would like to hear you say it again. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/9/2004 8:35 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Yet another topic where jaxie can show his ignorance. NE Ropes says at 15% of breaking strength elongation is 15%. Marlow has similar numbers. But what would they know? http://www.neropes.com/techdata/3strand.pdf One can debate whether 15% of tensile strength is a proper safety factor, but for a snubber its not that critical. This works out to snubbers in the range of 30 to 60 feet. Personally, the need to rig snubbers was one of the issues that led me to stop using all-chain and go to a mixed chain/nylon rode. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... ten foot of stretch on standard twisted nylon is about 150' to 250' of nylon, except under line breaking conditions. From: "Jeff Morris" Date: 11/7/2004 4:55 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Even more important than the "droop" is the limited (almost non-existent) extension available to an all chain system. What its really needed is enough nylon to allow for 5 or 10 feet, or more, of stretch. "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:rUtjd.90348$bk1.52418@fed1read05. .. "Amgine" wrote in message om... "Jim Donohue" wrote in message news:X2Uid.82404$bk1.80735@fed1read05... The problems is that above 35 knots of wind or so you have a straight rode. Uhm, maybe for your boat. In fact, just last weekend I was anchored out in 30 gusting 45 and neither chain+rope rode was bar-taut. On the other hand, I was wishing I had a bit more chain on both because I didn't have quite enough out for the weather (7:1 on a 7.5kg Bruce, and 5:1 on a 25lb. CQR) as I'd anchored 8 hours before the peak of the blow. To get a reasonable amount of shock absorption with all-chain, use a chain hook on about 30-40' of light nylon laid line and veer out a few more feet of chain. You'll get all the spring you want, but if there's much fetch you don't want too slack a chain to save your bows from a beating. I've never used either a kellet or buoy, but I'd like to experiment with both. Who has used which? Amgine http://wiki.saewyc.net/ See Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring by Hinz page 113. On the ABYC hypothetical power boat of 45 feet and 15 foot beam the cantenary has 1 foot of "droop"per 100 feet of rode at 30 knots and 0 feet at 40 knots. If your boat is smaller and has a smaller section it may be a little higher. Hinz advocates the use of chain riding stoppers for all chain boats. He points out that all chain rodes are very good at parting or destroying something in high winds. They are also sufficiently noisey in high wind conditions to make sleep difficult. Jim Donohue |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:13 AM. |
|
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com