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Cuba
A few months ago, the President implemented even stricter rules governing
visits to Cuba. I am a Canadian with a Canadian registered boat planning to visit Cuba next winter, but the new rules appear to include me if I leave from USA. Does anyone have any recent experience? |
On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:03:01 -0300, "Jim Lea" wrote:
A few months ago, the President implemented even stricter rules governing visits to Cuba. I am a Canadian with a Canadian registered boat planning to visit Cuba next winter, but the new rules appear to include me if I leave from USA. Does anyone have any recent experience? ====================================== No but from Florida it would be very easy to go by way of the Bahamas, Cayman Islands or Mexico. |
Subject: Cuba
From: Wayne.B No but from Florida it would be very easy to go by way of the Bahamas, Cayman Islands or Mexico. Why would you want to go around and passed Cuba to get to Cuba? Florida to Caymans to Cuba? :-) Capt. Bill |
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Here is some corespondence between a Canadian sailor and the US Ambasador to
Canada and other authorities. http://www.internationalchallenge.org/cuba/whatsnew.htm The jist from the US State Department is: "a Canadian crew aboard a Canadian vessel traveling through American waters with no intent to carry funds or commerce to the Cuban people is "at risk" of removal from their vessel and seizure of their boat. The U.S. Coast Guard would be operating within their legal jurisdiction if they were to take such action...even for vessels that are clearly noncommercial." What that really means is that, by executive order of the President, if the USCG suspects that you may go to Cuba even after visiting another country if you have been in US waters they can sieze your boat ANYWHERE they find you. They patrol the Florida Straight and Old Bahama Channel pretty heavily with helicopters, cutters and Orions and will quickly know if you have recently been in US waters so be careful. You better hope that they don't monitor this news group. The outlook is bleak but hopefully may improve after next Tuesday. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com "Jim Lea" wrote in message ... A few months ago, the President implemented even stricter rules governing visits to Cuba. I am a Canadian with a Canadian registered boat planning to visit Cuba next winter, but the new rules appear to include me if I leave from USA. Does anyone have any recent experience? |
Why would the current situation improve next Tuesday? Do you think the
Castro regime is in need of Heinz products? Your "jist" is suspect as is your overall outlook. |
Subject: Cuba
From: Wayne.B (LaBomba182) wrote: Why would you want to go around and passed Cuba to get to Cuba? Florida to Caymans to Cuba? :-) =========================================== To legally circumvent any possible US travel restrictions (he's a non-US boat/citizen). It was a joke Wayne. :-) Take a look at a chart. Capt. Bill |
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On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:55:09 -0400, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote: What that really means is that, by executive order of the President, if the USCG suspects that you may go to Cuba even after visiting another country if you have been in US waters they can sieze your boat ANYWHERE they find you. You people happy with your democracy, then? Just keep listening to your government describe foreigners as the terrorists, and your government's pirates as "freedom's vanguard" or whatever. And the nice people in Wilson, NY wonder where all their Canadian business went this year...poor *******s. R. |
The jist from the US State Department is: "a Canadian crew aboard a Canadian vessel traveling through American waters with no intent to carry funds or commerce to the Cuban people is "at risk" of removal from their vessel and seizure of their boat. The U.S. Coast Guard would be operating within their legal jurisdiction if they were to take such action...even for vessels that are clearly noncommercial." Doesn't Canada have anything to say about this? |
As of February 26, 2004, when Bush signed Proclamation 7757, supposedly
if you have charts of Cuba on your boat, the government can seize said boat because possession of those charts is evidence of the fact that you either visited or intend to visit Cuba in violation of these rules. You then have to prove you didn't go there to get it back. Is this outrageous or what? Do we remeber back in the days when we hated the Soviets for all the horrible things they did? Like invading innocent countries, trying to shove their government down everyone's throat, taking away their own citizen's rights, etc.... Hopefully Tuesday will bring a change. Capt. jeff |
"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message news:Tphgd.80761$hj.42925@fed1read07... Here is some corespondence between a Canadian sailor and the US Ambasador to Canada and other authorities. http://www.internationalchallenge.org/cuba/whatsnew.htm The jist from the US State Department is: "a Canadian crew aboard a Canadian vessel traveling through American waters with no intent to carry funds or commerce to the Cuban people is "at risk" of removal from their vessel and seizure of their boat. The U.S. Coast Guard would be operating within their legal jurisdiction if they were to take such action...even for vessels that are clearly noncommercial." What that really means is that, by executive order of the President, if the USCG suspects that you may go to Cuba even after visiting another country if you have been in US waters they can sieze your boat ANYWHERE they find you. Actually the two letters only mention seizure while in US waters. The US would be violating a lot of international laws if it started unilaterlly seizing boats in international waters. -- Evan Gatehouse you'll have to rewrite my email address to get to me ceilydh AT 3web dot net (fools the spammers) |
Surely this is not legal if i am a non US citizen on a non US boat they have no right to limit where i go and who i see and i have no intention of going any where near Cuba any way but common sense tells me to carry a chart or two for safety. I just read this article http://www.internationalchallenge.org/cuba/whatsnew.htm Sheesh and i thought Russia was bad Shaun Tamaroak wrote: As of February 26, 2004, when Bush signed Proclamation 7757, supposedly if you have charts of Cuba on your boat, the government can seize said boat because possession of those charts is evidence of the fact that you either visited or intend to visit Cuba in violation of these rules. You then have to prove you didn't go there to get it back. Is this outrageous or what? Do we remeber back in the days when we hated the Soviets for all the horrible things they did? Like invading innocent countries, trying to shove their government down everyone's throat, taking away their own citizen's rights, etc.... Hopefully Tuesday will bring a change. Capt. jeff |
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On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:05:37 -0700, "Evan Gatehouse"
wrote: Actually the two letters only mention seizure while in US waters. The US would be violating a lot of international laws if it started unilaterlly seizing boats in international waters. ====================== It's a long way from Canada to Cuba without going through US waters. |
Falky foo wrote:
Doesn't Canada have anything to say about this? Well this Canadian does. What the hell would it matter what the Canadian government or any other govt for that matter has to say about US foreign policy? You guys have the 2nd biggest threat to world peace as your president and the biggest threat to world peace i.e., the idiot Rumsfeld telling him what to do. You don't like a "regime"? Pre-emptively start a war on false pretexts, lie to your populace, scare them with terrorist boogeyman propaganda and do whatever the hell you want. Who is going to give a damn about an impounded Canadian yacht in the context of a country that will spend $500billion and counting to extend its military might across the globe in an imperialistic invasion and occupation of another sovereign nation? |
"Evan Gatehouse" wrote in message ... .. Actually the two letters only mention seizure while in US waters. The US would be violating a lot of international laws if it started unilaterlly seizing boats in international waters. You would logically think so but the US has had a treaty with the Bahamas allowing the USCG enforcement powers in Bahamian waters since 1996. The original intent was drug interdiction but the agreement is no longer restricted to just that. Just after the directive was issued the US signed agreements with the Bahamas and Haiti expanding USCG enforcement powers in the waters of both nations. Given the high reguard that the US currently has for international relations and the rather liberal (dare I use that word) interpretations that DOD and Justice Department lawyers are giving to international law, seizing foreign flagged vessels was not much of a stretch. Actually the USCG has been boarding foreign flagged boats in the Caribbean for some time. Back in 2000 I was crewing on a French boat being delivered from Tortola to Grand Cayman when we were boarded about 3AM. We were about 30 miles south of Isla Beata, DR. We figured it was not right but were not willing to argue with the cannon on the foredeck. You could probably get the boat returned after apealing but it would still put a big crimp in the cruise. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
Garuda wrote:
Why would the current situation improve next Tuesday? Do you think the Castro regime is in need of Heinz products? I can't speak for the "regime" but I know from first hand experience that the populace would be very pleased to have access to just about any reputable canned goods. Re your first question, things could begin looking up if the moron living at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue had to make arrangements to move his furniture back to Crawford in mid to late January. I guess we'll just have to see what Jesus decides on Tuesday (if you think this is some sort of joke or in poor taste, then you haven't been paying attention to what goes on inside that moron's head). -- Good luck and good sailing. s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat http://kerrydeare.home.comcast.net/ |
The mayor of London, John Livingstone, calls Bush "the greatest living
threat to life on this planet." I couldn't have said it better myself. Capt. jeff |
On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 04:12:56 GMT, "Falky foo"
wrote: The jist from the US State Department is: "a Canadian crew aboard a Canadian vessel traveling through American waters with no intent to carry funds or commerce to the Cuban people is "at risk" of removal from their vessel and seizure of their boat. The U.S. Coast Guard would be operating within their legal jurisdiction if they were to take such action...even for vessels that are clearly noncommercial." Doesn't Canada have anything to say about this? You'd think, but they're too busy fighting the U.S. lumber lobby in spite of NAFTA G. Canadians will vote with their wallets if any Canadian registered boats are seized due to insane U.S. policies. I'm no friend of the Cuban dictatorship, but I am less enamoured of a policy of "seize under suspicious" non-U.S. vessels. Halifax to the Azores, and then to Havana, anyone? Looking good. R. |
On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 02:35:33 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 22:05:37 -0700, "Evan Gatehouse" wrote: Actually the two letters only mention seizure while in US waters. The US would be violating a lot of international laws if it started unilaterlly seizing boats in international waters. ====================== It's a long way from Canada to Cuba without going through US waters. Yeah, but it's an even longer swim if the Coasties think your boat is worth seizing because you smoked a cigar on the foredeck. Forget it. I will not sail near America until regime change brings an end to the terrorism. Oopsie, did I say that? G R. |
I'm surprised you guys don't invade us and restore democracy and free us
from a tyrannical leader who stole the last election. If he ran your country, by his rules, he would. Paul "prodigal1" wrote in message ... Falky foo wrote: Doesn't Canada have anything to say about this? Well this Canadian does. What the hell would it matter what the Canadian government or any other govt for that matter has to say about US foreign policy? You guys have the 2nd biggest threat to world peace as your president and the biggest threat to world peace i.e., the idiot Rumsfeld telling him what to do. You don't like a "regime"? Pre-emptively start a war on false pretexts, lie to your populace, scare them with terrorist boogeyman propaganda and do whatever the hell you want. Who is going to give a damn about an impounded Canadian yacht in the context of a country that will spend $500billion and counting to extend its military might across the globe in an imperialistic invasion and occupation of another sovereign nation? |
Evan,
And when has that stopped them in the past. Paul "Evan Gatehouse" wrote in message ... snipped Actually the two letters only mention seizure while in US waters. The US would be violating a lot of international laws if it started unilaterlly seizing boats in international waters. -- Evan Gatehouse |
Why does everyone seem to want to go to Cuba?? Isn't there any other islands
worth visiting? Or is it just because someone said you can't go? |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message allows them in, and there is no specific safety issue that might require them to be "extricated" by the US government. Isn't it a communist country? I guess anyone's ass is fair game for them to lock up and throw away the key just for the hell of it? Cuba isn't a free country is it? I wasn't looking for a political argument either way, I was just thinking how many other places that would be great to cruise to that may be safer. Just me I guess but I don't think I would want to make that a nice cruising destination. All the green uniforms make me nervous :-) I do agree that is really stupid to confiscate someones boat just for "thinking" about going. I think my bank would be ****ed! |
On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 02:52:54 GMT, "Phil" wrote:
I wasn't looking for a political argument either way, I was just thinking how many other places that would be great to cruise to that may be safer. ================================ Cuba is a beautiful country with good weather, good people, good fishing, many fine harbors, and it happens to be only 90 miles from the US. A better cruising destination would be hard to find. |
This might be of interest
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...336EDT0840.DTL A judge dismissed charges Friday against organizers of a sailboat race from Key West to Cuba who were accused of violating federal laws against trading with enemy nations. Jack __________________________________________________ Jack Dale Swiftsure Sailing Academy Director/ISPA and CYA Instructor http://www.swiftsuresailing.com Phone: 1 (877) 470-SAIL (toll free) __________________________________________________ |
Based on our history, I can see how people could get confused about how we
can be allies with a country and then enemies with the same country within a very short time. Or how we can be enemies and then abruptly change to being allies....... Occurred to me yesterday that I hadn't seen Bush Senior out campaigning for Junior.........maybe he doesn't buy the BS. MMC "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Phil wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote in message allows them in, and there is no specific safety issue that might require them to be "extricated" by the US government. Isn't it a communist country? I guess anyone's ass is fair game for them to lock up and throw away the key just for the hell of it? Cuba isn't a free country is it? Cuba is a communist country, but visitors there who obey reasonable laws have no reason to fear arrest. I mean, it's not like visiting the United States where, if you take a photo of the George Washington Bridge, the police arrest you for being a terrorist, right? Plus, we do not restrict travel to plenty of countries far more dangerous than Cuba. Oh...and there are no travel resttrictions to the People's Republic of China...and that's a communist country. Quick..which country is more dangerous...Cuba or the PRC? -- Today George W. Bush made a very compelling and thoughtful argument for why he should not be reelected. In his own words, he told the American people that "...a political candidate who jumps to conclusions without knowing the facts is not a person you want as your Commander-in-Chief." |
Jack Dale wrote in
: This might be of interest http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../2004/10/29/na tional2336EDT0840.DTL A judge dismissed charges Friday against organizers of a sailboat race from Key West to Cuba who were accused of violating federal laws against trading with enemy nations. I just wonder how much it cost them to defend themselves... -- Geoff |
WaIIy wrote:
They were well aware of the laws beforehand. Actually, I seem to recall, that they had official approval, which was revoked after the fact and then they were charged. |
They were well aware of the laws beforehand.
...which doesn't alter the fact that the laws are still rather sick. j. |
WaIIy wrote:
From reading your answer here, I guess what Canadians have to say is.. Whaaaaaaa I think one of Dr. Lector's lines fits best here i.e., if you don't understand the words, it's best not to enter the conversation at all |
It is not over yet. The charges were dismissed "without prejudice" which
means the government is still able to dream up another offence to charge them with. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com "Jack Dale" wrote in message ... This might be of interest http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...336EDT0840.DTL A judge dismissed charges Friday against organizers of a sailboat race from Key West to Cuba who were accused of violating federal laws against trading with enemy nations. Jack __________________________________________________ Jack Dale Swiftsure Sailing Academy Director/ISPA and CYA Instructor http://www.swiftsuresailing.com Phone: 1 (877) 470-SAIL (toll free) __________________________________________________ |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message Cuba is a communist country, but visitors there who obey reasonable laws have no reason to fear arrest. I mean, it's not like visiting the United States where, if you take a photo of the George Washington Bridge, the police arrest you for being a terrorist, right? Plus, we do not restrict travel to plenty of countries far more dangerous than Cuba. Oh...and there are no travel resttrictions to the People's Republic of China...and that's a communist country. Quick..which country is more dangerous...Cuba or the PRC? Harry, Good point. Maybe some day it will change. I don't know much about Cuba other than most people that live there seem to want to desperately leave in innertubes or floating trucks etc. I guess I always figured if the residents are leaving then it can't be a very good place to be! |
Harry Krause wrote:
My ilk? Yes. Go somewhere else with your ****ing opinion, you'll never change anyone elses one way or the other anyhow. This newsgroup is about BOATING. Personally I'm sick of all politicians right now. |
On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:55:00 -0400, "Paul Schilter"
paulschilter@comcast,dot,net wrote: I'm surprised you guys don't invade us and restore democracy and free us from a tyrannical leader who stole the last election. If he ran your country, by his rules, he would. I agree. But we have. We've started with your entertainment industry and are steadily moving into governorships G. Oh, and the maple syrup? It's drugged. R. |
Subject: Cuba
From: WaIIy On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:17:48 -0500, Tamaroak wrote: As of February 26, 2004, when Bush signed Proclamation 7757, supposedly if you have charts of Cuba on your boat, the government can seize said boat because possession of those charts is evidence of the fact that you either visited or intend to visit Cuba in violation of these rules. You then have to prove you didn't go there to get it back. Is this outrageous or what? Do we remeber back in the days when we hated the Soviets for all the horrible things they did? Like invading innocent countries, trying to shove their government down everyone's throat, taking away their own citizen's rights, etc.... Hopefully Tuesday will bring a change. Capt. jeff How many private boats have been siezed in 2004? "Help, the sky is falling" The point of this discussion in apparently over your head. Capt. Bill |
In article ,
Harry Krause wrote: The US policy towards Cuba is based upon decades of utter stupidity. Had we normalized relations yeats ago, Castro probably would have been out on his butt before now. Though nominally a Republican supporter, I find this to be SO true! A country where professional women turn to hooking for better wages is sick.... very sick. The restrictions only bolster Castro, particularly since I don't believe any other major country is participating, so their economy has at least minimal real cash flow. -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
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Subject: Cuba
From: Wayne.B On 29 Oct 2004 03:12:12 GMT, (LaBomba182) wrote: It was a joke Wayne. :-) Take a look at a chart. ====================== OK, OK. I know the chart very well. I'm sitting here in Cape Coral looking for places to cruise to with our new GB49 and Cuba looks like a winner if we can ever get some rational policies in place. I've been three times and can't wait to go again once either party shows some balls and drops this stupid ****ing contest with Castro. Capt. Bill |
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