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"Cardinal_Bill" wrote
Yes. Go somewhere else with your ****ing opinion, you'll never change anyone elses one way or the other anyhow. This newsgroup is about BOATING. Personally I'm sick of all politicians right now. Actually this newsgroup is about CRUISING and unfortunately cruisers are and have always been at the mercy of politics. I, like you, regret that this thread ever got started in a normally neutral group. I think that all of us try to avoid conversations like this and as a group we do not often speak up on political subjects but some times we just can't sit on the side lines. Besides criminalizing travel to Cuba the current administration has basically eliminated funding for the ICW. Without funding it will soon become unusable . We must speak up for our rights and interest or we will loose them to the more politically vocal activists. -- Glenn Ashmore |
Glenn Ashmore wrote:
Actually this newsgroup is about CRUISING and unfortunately cruisers are and have always been at the mercy of politics. I, like you, regret that this thread ever got started in a normally neutral group. I think that all of us try to avoid conversations like this and as a group we do not often speak up on political subjects but some times we just can't sit on the side lines. Besides criminalizing travel to Cuba the current administration has basically eliminated funding for the ICW. Without funding it will soon become unusable . We must speak up for our rights and interest or we will loose them to the more politically vocal activists. Yes but... :-) I've always thought someone pumping their political opinion (and the ever popular "I'm an American and I'll carry my gun into any Damned country I want to!" as if the laws of Mexico/Canada/someotherplace don't count) into a newgroup to be the equivalent of spamming. All it ends up doing is creating a series of "Does not", "Does to" messages. Then the name calling starts. Besides, why does someone of Australia/England/Upper Volta (yeah that country doesn't use that name anymore) care about American politics/laws. I personally think the Cuban situation stinks and I'm on the other side of the country from the ICW. |
The reason someone from australia cares about US politics/law is because when i plan to go to your country in the near future (6/12 months) to buy my next boat i may wish to come home via cuba or any other damm country in the world and if that means sailing into a strange coast without charts, Then they are putting my life at risk. As i said before safety sake alone requires me to have charts of the area. Do they just pretend that it it is a great void in the ocean or will it become the cuban rectangle of mystery and wrecks. or will the charts show go Nay further shall yea go or yea shall fall from tis world for strange creatures here abide. With dark age thinking come the dark ages again. Does the final word come from my family when they SUE the US government for the lose of my life and my income due to there negligence in disallowing me to have navigation charts that would have told me that there is a reef/rock/wreck in that straight that i head for for shelter. Banning citizens from going to cuba Fine that's your peoples choice (you folks voted them in) but banning me from carrying charts on my boat must be on the same analogue as the romans banning Christianity. Both will still be there long after the other is gone. Shaun I've always thought someone pumping their political opinion (and the ever popular "I'm an American and I'll carry my gun into any Damned country I want to!" as if the laws of Mexico/Canada/someotherplace don't count) into a newgroup to be the equivalent of spamming. All it ends up doing is creating a series of "Does not", "Does to" messages. Then the name calling starts. Besides, why does someone of Australia/England/Upper Volta (yeah that country doesn't use that name anymore) care about American politics/laws. I personally think the Cuban situation stinks and I'm on the other side of the country from the ICW. |
Well, I don't agree with the policy either, but if I were a Canadian or an
Australian who wanted to visit Cuba, I'd just avoid the US altogether. What is it, 12 miles off the coast is the limit? Just avoid US waters and land in Mexico or something and then to Cuba. Other than the Disney parks there ain't a whole lot to see here anyway. Let's face it, if, say, Botswana or wherever implemented some dumb ass rules whereby they could confiscate any ship that went into their waters and then went to some other country, I'd just avoid Botswana and go straight to that other county! wrote in message ... The reason someone from australia cares about US politics/law is because when i plan to go to your country in the near future (6/12 months) to buy my next boat i may wish to come home via cuba or any other damm country in the world and if that means sailing into a strange coast without charts, Then they are putting my life at risk. As i said before safety sake alone requires me to have charts of the area. Do they just pretend that it it is a great void in the ocean or will it become the cuban rectangle of mystery and wrecks. or will the charts show go Nay further shall yea go or yea shall fall from tis world for strange creatures here abide. With dark age thinking come the dark ages again. Does the final word come from my family when they SUE the US government for the lose of my life and my income due to there negligence in disallowing me to have navigation charts that would have told me that there is a reef/rock/wreck in that straight that i head for for shelter. Banning citizens from going to cuba Fine that's your peoples choice (you folks voted them in) but banning me from carrying charts on my boat must be on the same analogue as the romans banning Christianity. Both will still be there long after the other is gone. Shaun I've always thought someone pumping their political opinion (and the ever popular "I'm an American and I'll carry my gun into any Damned country I want to!" as if the laws of Mexico/Canada/someotherplace don't count) into a newgroup to be the equivalent of spamming. All it ends up doing is creating a series of "Does not", "Does to" messages. Then the name calling starts. Besides, why does someone of Australia/England/Upper Volta (yeah that country doesn't use that name anymore) care about American politics/laws. I personally think the Cuban situation stinks and I'm on the other side of the country from the ICW. |
"Falky foo" wrote in message om... Let's face it, if, say, Botswana or wherever implemented some dumb ass rules whereby they could confiscate any ship that went into their waters and then went to some other country, I'd just avoid Botswana and go straight to that other county! Botswana is landlocked ;-) Though I did go on a boat trip through the Okavango delta. It's a great place to visit, but watch out for the Hippos. Peter HK |
Harry Krause wrote:
We normalized relations with Germany, Italy, and Japan after WW II. We normalized relations with Vietnam, the Sov Union and the PRC. There's no reason to maintain Cuba on the anathema list. Yup! You normalised relations with the Soviet Union and did to the communist empire what no H-bomb, economic sanctions or propaganda could do. It no longer exists and we call them now: Russia, Ukraine, Georgia, Lithuania, Yougoslavia, Poland, etc... You normalised relations with China and now, private entrepreneurship (do I dare say capitalism?) is legal there and growing quite rapidly. Why this wouldn't work with Cuba? My opinion is that the best weapon against Castro is to bring there the western way of of life is thru tourism and trade. As a Canadian, I effectively won't go to the US, fearing whatever some paranoid custom officer can imagine on a bad hair day, this, even if I never went to Cuba and won't probably ever go! Canada normalised its relations with the USSR and PRC long before the US. We have normal relations with Cuba too and I think it would be a great idea for you guys (and gals) to follow us on this one too! Hoping, some day, you can bring back home the best rum in the world! ;-) Jean Dufour Montreal,Qc |
On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:03:57 -0800, Cardinal_Bill
wrote: Actually, I seem to recall, that they had official approval, which was revoked after the fact and then they were charged. =========================================== Which has now been affirmed by the judicial branch. Every once in a while the system seems to work. Too bad that they probably can't recover their legal costs. |
On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:30:43 -0400, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote: It is not over yet. The charges were dismissed "without prejudice" which means the government is still able to dream up another offence to charge them with. ================================== Well that's good to know. Atrocities against decent law abiding citizens like sail boat racing should not be allowed to continue. Who knows, they might have smoked an illegal cigar while they were there. |
WaIIy wrote:
Who's the paranoid one? Since you don't get it, I'll explain. Anyone crossing into the good ol' US of A can be fingerprinted and photographed at the whim of an individual customs officer. The way you clowns are heading I wonder how long it will be until travellers into the States get tattooed, perhaps on a forearm? On principle I have terminated 25 years of yearly travel with my family to Florida and will not return to the US until reason returns. There are many other sunny destinations where my disposable income is welcomed and quite frankly needed to a much greater degree. Have someone read the USA Patriot Act to you, better still have someone convert it into comic book form so that it will be easier for you to comprehend. Detention without charges or right to access to counsel, extortion/coercion of "cooperation" of public facilities like libraries, wiretapping, eavesdropping, "Homeland Security", "Coastal Watch" programs, encouragement of informing, etc... You poor schmuck. The Bushstapo has trampled your constitutional rights and you're too clued out to realize it. |
WaIIy wrote:
Who's the paranoid one? Hi Wally! Paranoia may very well be contagious. Mine doesn't make me loose money or my boat but homeland security's one does scares tourists away. But who cares? It's only a fifth of Florida's economy and the 3 billions+ dollars tourists leave there in sales tax only provide for Floridians not to pay personal income tax a the state level! Not a big deal. ...or is it? See: http://www.fact-index.com/f/fl/florida.html#Economy and http://floridataxwatch.org/resources...orBusiness.pdf And to Canadians reading this: don't think Kerry is a better deal for us. He's more of a protectionist than Bush and that'll be worst for our economy. We're kind of in a catch 22 situation. There, you know this is not a Reps. vs Dems thing. I was just stating that the embargo on Cuba IMHO helps more Castro to stay in power than invading them "economically" and by rebound, culturally. And that's my last words on this subject... Best wishes! Jean |
WaIIy wrote:
You are from Quebec, correct? Enough said. There! You confirm to me that if only one of your custom officers is half as shortshighted and ethnophobic as you, it's a good idea to avoid the States. Jean |
Jean Dufour wrote:
WaIIy wrote: You are from Quebec, correct? Enough said. There! You confirm to me that if only one of your custom officers is half as shortshighted and ethnophobic as you, it's a good idea to avoid the States. Jean We don't want the damn Quebeckers in Florida anyway. Snowbirds, stay home!!! |
On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 18:06:23 GMT, WaIIy
wrote: On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 10:09:59 -0500, Jean Dufour wrote: As a Canadian, I effectively won't go to the US, fearing whatever some paranoid custom officer can imagine on a bad hair day, this, even if I never went to Cuba Who's the paranoid one? Here's how it is around here. You tell me. I've posted this piece from our club newsletter before and it's a little long, but it's a legit first-hand account of the experience of recreational boating *near*--not *in*, U.S. waters. I don't find it remotely inflammatory, but quite instructive. R. Condition Orange by David George, National Yacht Club, Toronto I understand that the U.S. was operating under condition Orange over Memorial Day weekend, though I thought it was Yellow, maybe even Puce, when I put on a nice CD and dialled in the GPS waypoint to take us Niagara on the Lake. Whatever the colour, increased concern had been expressed throughout the week that something nasty might be, could be, maybe, in the air. But that was a U.S. thing and I paid it no mind as I rounded the hazard markers at the end of runway 26 and slaved the autopilot to the GPS to take us just inside the green buoy at the entrance to the Niagara River. The brisk North wind lacked the fetch to kick up much in the way of waves at this point and we set about making Somersault shipshape in anticipation of some rolling and rougher weather further along. There were three of us onboard, I, my son and his son. Three generations spanning over sixty years with the youngest not yet three. It was a big deal for Mason, who just loves the boat and looks for any excuse to visit it with his grandfather. And to get to steer it even if it's tied securely to the dock. He also steers sometimes underway, working the wheel from within Grandpa's arms or having his steering input being overridden by the hydraulic autopilot that doesn't understand children and is intent only on following the direction it has been told to heed. It looked to be a delightful cruise, mostly for the fraternity involved. It was still quite cold on the lake, quite windy and we had left rather later than planned for NOLSC (Niagara on the Lake Sailing Club). Mark, my son, was attending a close friend's wedding and my wife and I would be babysitting Mason aboard the boat while they were away. Both wives would be driving over on Saturday and we would all go back, three by sea and two by road, sort of Paul Revereish, early Sunday morning. That was the general plan. The only downside was that we would miss Sailpast, an event that we all enjoyed and, quite unlike last year, this one promised to be sunny. Ten nautical miles south, it was a bit rough and I provided Prescott (Ontario-Canadian Coast Guard) radio with a condition report, noting that we were out of NYC en route to NOLSC on the first cruise of the summer. Mason was taking these conditions in his rather short stride, sitting cheerfully at the lower helm, incessantly chatting and looking out, occasionally playing with the wheel. A little later we went up to the fly bridge where it was cold but the view was great. Mark pointed out a white dot behind and somewhat east of us that he had been looking at suggesting that it was on an intercepting course. We had seen very few other boats so far on the journey and I thought that this one might be out of Ashbridges Bay, maybe even Bluffers, and heading, as we were, for Niagara. Somewhat later we could make out that the boat following us was a police boat, one out of Toronto; a little later still it was alongside. We waved hello and they waved back but then slowed and took up a position dead astern before moving to the starboard side. They then hailed us on the radio and after moving to channel 12 began to ask questions about our destination, homeport and the number of people on board. The exchange went on for a few minutes and I asked them why the intercept, as this was rather unusual in my lake crossing experience and they explained that it was just a "routine patrol." There was, as there had been, considerable radio chatter among the Toronto Marine detachment, the Niagara Marine unit and the US shore stations, but we paid it little heed until we were about five miles north of the mouth of the Niagara River. The lake had become quite rough by then and Somersault was wallowing in the troughs. Mark was below, Mason was having a nap and I was busy hand steering to try and improve on the autopilot's performance in the following seas. Ahead I could make out a boat coming out of the river headed directly for us and as it got closer, yes, it was the Niagara Marine unit. They passed close alongside and then lay astern for a bit. Then I heard them on the radio and following them through the channels could hear them in contact with Toronto and the U.S. Marine station chatting and enquiring where the U.S. Border Patrol unit was at that time. I checked the GPS and chart. We were still in Canadian waters and would remain in Canadian waters until we reached NOLSC. In any event, the Border Patrol unit turned out to be some distance away. I could only pay some attention to all of this because I was very busy steering and, through inattention, had already tipped many things over down below while distracted by the radio traffic. About an hour later we docked on the wall at NOLSC. Mason told me that, "Lots of things fell on the bed Papa, but I didn't fall off," and I apologised for the bumpiness. While we tidied up, the Niagara Police boat came by and hovered close to port asking where we were from (Toronto), were we here for the races (No -for a wedding. I don't know what rating system or handicap a trawler would likely have anyway), was this where we were staying (yes) and when were we leaving (Sunday morning). Then they left. Friday night, we saw occasional small boats moving on both sides of the river. One of these launched from a trailer on the U.S. side came over to NOLSC and went into the town. A few hours later they came back, crossed the river and hauled out on the same trailer. I thought that kind of traffic constituted more of a threat to Homeland Security than my travelling from Canadian port to Canadian port in Canadian waters. On Saturday, the U.S. Border Patrol came over in their high-speed Zodiac, with almost 500 HP on the transom, to fuel up. I asked them about all this activity, their concerns about the local traffic and the focus there seem to be on boats from Toronto. One of the officers explained that, indeed, they were concentrating on Toronto traffic to nearby U.S. ports and that the Canadian and U.S. marine forces were working together on patrols. The cross-river traffic, while a concern, was being monitored, he said, by cameras on the US side. The main threat was seen to be from the Toronto region. The wedding, I'm sure, was marvellous, though uneventful from a boating viewpoint, and I got the chance to spend lots of quality time with my grandson. By Sunday, he had slept on the boat two consecutive nights and was quite comfortable with it. After brunch, the ladies went back to Toronto by car and the men and boyfolk were set to go back by boat. However, the groom, why I don't know, expressed a desire to go for a short cruise, not in the lake but in the river, because he gets seasick quite easily. He is a good friend of my son, so Somersault was pressed into service for a short river cruise before venturing out on the lake to return home. I took out the river chart and planned to voyage up to Queenston, very near the site where Brock protected the main portage into the western wilderness from falling in unwelcome hands, defeated the Americans and, essentially, gave birth to Canada as a nation. Of course, at the time I was still a cellular form in some Newfoundlander's DNA stream and it wasn't until many, many years later that, then a Canadian, I came to appreciate the significance of the event. Going up river was a slow process and was taking much longer than I had anticipated. Mark, Mason and the Groom lounged around on the bow. Mason fell asleep standing at the Samson post and Mark carried him below for his midday nap. Ahead the river narrowed, Queenston still seemed a long time away given the current and there was a U.S. Coast Guard boat, on what appeared to be very much the Canadian side, with its lights flashing tied alongside a small fishing boat. It appeared to be patrolling the upper part of the river - maybe even denying access above the turn - though I had seen this boat go by NOLSC not all that long ago. Given the time, the trip back to Toronto that still had to be made, the number of encounters I had already had with marine officials and the likelihood that I would be stopped if I tried to venture further, I gave up and turned to run down stream. Now we were making progress. The GPS reported better than 10 knots over the ground - a terrific speed for us 8-knot cruisers. Mark returned from tucking Mason in to tell me that the USCG boat was now racing our way with lights flashing. Very soon it was close astern and, over a bullhorn, ordering me to stop the boat and put it in neutral. Typical Canadian, I immediately complied. Somersault was stopped and then began to swing broadside to the wind and current, drifting sideways down the river. That's her usual stance when at rest and at the mercy of wind or current. The Coast Guard then ordered over the horn that I set the rudder to head up into the current. I yelled back that this was the way the boat drifts when not underway and that there was nothing short of powering up again that would change it. They then let me know that they intended to board. In over thirty years on Lake Ontario and in all the years that had gone before I have never been boarded. Sure, it happens, but this was new to me. I'm rather proud of the condition of my boat and the big black rubrail on the USCG aluminium Zodiac was somewhat threatening in the active river current. However, we had fenders already temporally rigged on the starboard to drop off the groom back at NOLSC. That was now downstream and the USCG boat was asked to come around to that side after we lowered the fenders already there. They did and pushed the Zodiac tightly against Somersault (breaking a fender holder in the process) while two armed officers hopped over the rail. The groom was finding this almost more interesting than the wedding. He was a Canadian, like the rest of us, but on this wedding morning after left his bride's side (still I had no idea why) with minimal documentation, not expecting he would need a passport to go for a short trip up the river. What he did have in the way of ID was only a New Jersey driver's licence, because that's where he works. He was uneasy. Having made two turns and been drifting for some time God only knows whether we were now in Canadian or US jurisdiction, or even if it mattered. The Coast Guardees were firm but polite. "Where is the owner," they asked? "You the owner? Get the registration and ownership papers. Where's your ID? Let's all go in the cabin," they suggested as the Zodiac and its helmsman pulled away. I asked what the problem was, why we were being boarded and was told that this was an inspection. I got the registration papers, there being some confusion as to the lack of registration numbers on the hull - this being a Canadian Registered boat. I think they use the term "Documented," in any event they were eventually satisfied with the officious looking document I presented and they recorded the official number as the registration number anyway on their rather complicated form. They fussed about my ID but did not ask for IDs of the others. They then asked about safety gear. I was a member of the CMRA, essentially the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary and, for several years gave presentations as a Boating Safety Advisor and courtesy inspections as Courtesy Small Vessel Examiner as well, I had taught Power Squadron courses and had all the required operator permits and more than sufficient and current safety equipment on board. As it became increasing apparent that I had been quite involved in boating myself, and that they were unlikely to find anything out of order, the tension seemed to ease though they insisted on finishing the report and giving me a copy noting, but only at the end, the Lat. and Long we had drifted to, as shown on my GPS. I asked why the boarding. It seemed to be rather pointed at this vessel. Yes, they agreed, they knew of Somersault and that we had been challenged two or three times already - they had also listened to my conversation on Friday with Prescott and my "filing of my sail plan" with Prescott Radio, and had made note of it. They knew all about when I arrived, why I was here and when I would be going back. So why the boarding? "Just routine," was the explanation. Bull. There is more going on here than just routine. "Yes," confirms the Toronto Harbour Police, where a Sgt. Goodwin is heading up a Task Force, "You are likely to see much more of this, this year and over the years to come," was the comment when I called. Goodwin was very helpful in explaining that new rules and regulations, the Marine Transportation Security Regulations, would come into effect on July 1 but that, even now, there was much increased surveillance of cross-lake pleasure boat traffic from all relevant agencies. The International Ship and Port Facility Security (ISPS) Code targets commercial traffic but the effects will apply, essentially, to all vessels travelling between countries. He explained that the USCG have the right, in US waters, to board any vessel at will and, if a vessel enters US waters, they may even have the obligation to do so. The other agencies usually rely on some indication of cause before going that far, but not the USCG. The Sergeant commented that respecting sovereignty was an issue in the Niagara region and that the borders were to be respected and did establish relevant jurisdiction. And he noted that there were many more USCG and U.S. Border Patrol vessels operating on the U.S. side these days, all with a mandate to be very vigilant. In some eyes, Canada is seen to leak terrorists into the U.S. and, says Goodwin, the fact that only 10% of the 18,000 boaters in the region checked in with U.S. Customs last year leads them to conclude that there is a lot of unreported marine traffic between the two countries. So there has been a fundamental change in area boaters' freedom to travel even from Canadian port to Canadian port, especially if those ports are anywhere to the south of Toronto. Before you venture southwards, make sure to file a float plan at the club fully indicating your intentions. And carry vessel registration and suitable ID documents with you. It's also a good idea to be up to date with all safety and licence requirements. It's a different watery world out there this year. The first of many. The Boy Scouts said it best: Be Prepared. |
On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 11:32:22 -0500, krj
wrote: Jean Dufour wrote: WaIIy wrote: You are from Quebec, correct? Enough said. There! You confirm to me that if only one of your custom officers is half as shortshighted and ethnophobic as you, it's a good idea to avoid the States. Jean We don't want the damn Quebeckers in Florida anyway. Snowbirds, stay home!!! And screen a copy of Der Ewige Jude while you're at it! |
Only a sad minority. We all have them. Despotism and those need more
serious mental attention. Ignore the attention to your post. Lastly, let U.S. citizens decide their choice. You will know within the next few hours. |
On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 15:01:29 +0000, WaIIy wrote:
You are from Quebec, correct? incorrect Enough said. ah...yeah |
On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 11:32:22 -0500, krj wrote:
We don't want the damn Quebeckers in Florida anyway. Snowbirds, stay home!!! hoo baby you's as dumb as a post aintcha you fscking moron, Canadians including les Quebecois(es) pump US$6billion into the Florida economy every year. How are you going to keep your job washing dishes at the IHOP when we all take our dollars to Cuba? |
Keep working on your technique and you may eventually become somewhat
intelligent. |
"Harry Krause" wrote in message ... I don't get it. You couldn't have better neighbors than Canada and Canadians. It's a wonderful country to visit with lots of great vistas, historical sites, interesting restaurants, nice folks, and a pretty damned low rate of violent crime. Why the hatred for Canada and Canadians? I supose it's because most Canadians take sides with the Democrats... because they seem to be a little more fair minded when dealing with us. |
On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:31:33 GMT, WaIIy
wrote: We don't want the damn Quebeckers in Florida anyway. Snowbirds, stay home!!! And screen a copy of Der Ewige Jude while you're at it! I invoke Godwin's Law. You were quick. Wasn't sure who would get that. You did. Danke, mein Herr...G R. |
Oh, right. Next you'll tell us you don't have frivolous lawsuits in the
USA, the country with more lawyers than any other on the planet. "WaIIy" wrote in message ... On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 12:04:20 -0500, rhys wrote: On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:31:33 GMT, WaIIy wrote: We don't want the damn Quebeckers in Florida anyway. Snowbirds, stay home!!! And screen a copy of Der Ewige Jude while you're at it! I invoke Godwin's Law. You were quick. Wasn't sure who would get that. You did. Danke, mein Herr...G R. Here's an example of what some Canadians spend their time on.... Good enough for Tonto Rachel Boomer CanWest News Service Tuesday, November 02, 2004 HALIFAX - A Nova Scotia Human Rights Commission panel spent a full day watching Lone Ranger episodes before deciding being called kemosabe did not demean a Mi'kmaq woman. After its day of reruns and hearing several Mi'kmaq witnesses, the independent board of inquiry concluded the TV western treated native Americans in a "demeaning and disrespectful manner." But, it said, the term "kemosabe" -- Tonto's word for his white friend the Lone Ranger -- did not really offend the Membertou, N.S., woman. The board's conclusions were recently upheld by the Nova Scotia Court of Appeal. "Tonto is the Lone Ranger's partner and friend. He is clean cut and well-groomed and, although he speaks a form of broken English, he is neither dumb nor stupid," Justice David Chipman of the appeal court writes in an Oct. 6 summary of the board's ruling. "For the most part, other native Americans in the series are treated in a demeaning and disrespectful manner. While Tonto is sometimes so treated by others, he is never so treated by the Lone Ranger." The complaint dates back to October, 1999, when Dorothy Kateri Moore of Membertou was working as a clerk at Play It Again Sports in Sydney. Her boss, Trevor Muller, referred to her and other employees as kemosabe. Mr. Muller said it meant "trusty friend." Ms. Moore asked to be called "nitap," Mi'kmaq for "friend," but the board found Mr. Muller called everyone "kemosabe" and didn't stop at Ms. Moore's request. After a dispute over how Ms. Moore treated customers, she quit and filed a human rights complaint, saying the workplace was poisoned by use of the word and several other incidents. On Feb. 17, 2004, the board ruled against her. "To the contrary, the evidence showed that she was not only treated the same way as other employees, but was considered a friend, and accommodated beyond the expectations of a strict employment relationship," Judge Chipman said, summarizing the board's ruling. The Mi'kmaq witnesses who testified about the word's meaning were divided on whether it was offensive. Mi'kmaq linguist Bernie Francis testified the word probably came from an Ojibwa or Potowatmi word meaning "sly-looking" or "sneaky." Two other members of the Membertou band said they would be offended if called kemosabe. Another man said it depended on the context, while an Eskasoni man said he didn't know what the word meant until he was asked to testify. (Halifax Daily News) |
Yup, sad isnt it. We graduate over 40,000 NEW pirrhannas every damn
year. Would be glad to send you some of the surplus (which was reached in the 1960s). The onlly country that has more shysters per capita is Chile .... another country that is self destructing due to a superabundance of greedy lawyers. Just subtract 7% of the total usa GNP to 'legal charges' .... which benefits NO ONE 'cept the greedy shysters. In article _exid.94737$9b.8156@edtnps84, Gordon Wedman wrote: Oh, right. Next you'll tell us you don't have frivolous lawsuits in the USA, the country with more lawyers than any other on the planet. "WaIIy" wrote in message ... On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 12:04:20 -0500, rhys wrote: On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:31:33 GMT, WaIIy wrote: We don't want the damn Quebeckers in Florida anyway. Snowbirds, stay home!!! And screen a copy of Der Ewige Jude while you're at it! I invoke Godwin's Law. You were quick. Wasn't sure who would get that. You did. Danke, mein Herr...G R. Here's an example of what some Canadians spend their time on.... Good enough for Tonto Rachel Boomer CanWest News Service Tuesday, November 02, 2004 HALIFAX - A Nova Scotia Human Rights Commission panel spent a full day watching Lone Ranger episodes before deciding being called kemosabe did not demean a Mi'kmaq woman. After its day of reruns and hearing several Mi'kmaq witnesses, the independent board of inquiry concluded the TV western treated native Americans in a "demeaning and disrespectful manner." But, it said, the term "kemosabe" -- Tonto's word for his white friend the Lone Ranger -- did not really offend the Membertou, N.S., woman. The board's conclusions were recently upheld by the Nova Scotia Court of Appeal. "Tonto is the Lone Ranger's partner and friend. He is clean cut and well-groomed and, although he speaks a form of broken English, he is neither dumb nor stupid," Justice David Chipman of the appeal court writes in an Oct. 6 summary of the board's ruling. "For the most part, other native Americans in the series are treated in a demeaning and disrespectful manner. While Tonto is sometimes so treated by others, he is never so treated by the Lone Ranger." The complaint dates back to October, 1999, when Dorothy Kateri Moore of Membertou was working as a clerk at Play It Again Sports in Sydney. Her boss, Trevor Muller, referred to her and other employees as kemosabe. Mr. Muller said it meant "trusty friend." Ms. Moore asked to be called "nitap," Mi'kmaq for "friend," but the board found Mr. Muller called everyone "kemosabe" and didn't stop at Ms. Moore's request. After a dispute over how Ms. Moore treated customers, she quit and filed a human rights complaint, saying the workplace was poisoned by use of the word and several other incidents. On Feb. 17, 2004, the board ruled against her. "To the contrary, the evidence showed that she was not only treated the same way as other employees, but was considered a friend, and accommodated beyond the expectations of a strict employment relationship," Judge Chipman said, summarizing the board's ruling. The Mi'kmaq witnesses who testified about the word's meaning were divided on whether it was offensive. Mi'kmaq linguist Bernie Francis testified the word probably came from an Ojibwa or Potowatmi word meaning "sly-looking" or "sneaky." Two other members of the Membertou band said they would be offended if called kemosabe. Another man said it depended on the context, while an Eskasoni man said he didn't know what the word meant until he was asked to testify. (Halifax Daily News) |
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 20:32:10 GMT, WaIIy
wrote: On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 12:04:20 -0500, rhys wrote: On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:31:33 GMT, WaIIy wrote: We don't want the damn Quebeckers in Florida anyway. Snowbirds, stay home!!! And screen a copy of Der Ewige Jude while you're at it! I invoke Godwin's Law. You were quick. Wasn't sure who would get that. You did. Danke, mein Herr...G R. Here's an example of what some Canadians spend their time on.... Well, that's kinda funny in a pathetic sort of way, and demonstrates that Canadians are as prone to institutional ******y as Americans are with Pentagon-approved $2,000 toilet seats and whatnot. Abuse of the process is part of the process. Ever talked to a yacht broker?G R. |
Subject: Cuba
From: WaIIy On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 23:35:30 -0500, prodigal1 wrote: WaIIy wrote: Who's the paranoid one? Since you don't get it, I'll explain. Anyone crossing into the good ol' US of A can be fingerprinted and photographed at the whim of an individual customs officer. The way you clowns are heading I wonder how long it will be until travellers into the States get tattooed, perhaps on a forearm? On principle I have terminated 25 years of yearly travel with my family to Florida and will not return to the US until reason returns. There are many other sunny destinations where my disposable income is welcomed and quite frankly needed to a much greater degree. Have someone read the USA Patriot Act to you, better still have someone convert it into comic book form so that it will be easier for you to comprehend. Detention without charges or right to access to counsel, extortion/coercion of "cooperation" of public facilities like libraries, wiretapping, eavesdropping, "Homeland Security", "Coastal Watch" programs, encouragement of informing, etc... You poor schmuck. The Bushstapo has trampled your constitutional rights and you're too clued out to realize it. You are from Quebec, correct? Enough said. Your right. Being from Quebec would explain his/her concise, well written explanation that went right over, or is that through, your head. Capt. Bill |
The $2000 dollar toilet seats are just a way to cover up expenditures in
alien research. I know it's true, saw it on TV. "rhys" wrote in message ... On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 20:32:10 GMT, WaIIy wrote: On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 12:04:20 -0500, rhys wrote: On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:31:33 GMT, WaIIy wrote: We don't want the damn Quebeckers in Florida anyway. Snowbirds, stay home!!! And screen a copy of Der Ewige Jude while you're at it! I invoke Godwin's Law. You were quick. Wasn't sure who would get that. You did. Danke, mein Herr...G R. Here's an example of what some Canadians spend their time on.... Well, that's kinda funny in a pathetic sort of way, and demonstrates that Canadians are as prone to institutional ******y as Americans are with Pentagon-approved $2,000 toilet seats and whatnot. Abuse of the process is part of the process. Ever talked to a yacht broker?G R. |
"johannes m.r." wrote:
Our nation is founded on the premise that unfair laws should be challenged. Those folks that participated in the Boston Tea Party knew the laws too. They were well aware of the laws beforehand. ..which doesn't alter the fact that the laws are still rather sick. They had permission. This is more like ex post facto, which is supposed to be illegal. grandma Rosalie |
Oh, come on! I don't like it either...but you don't have to engage in a
character assassination of the leader our American neighbours have just chosen by a popular vote. They chose him...we may not agree with this policy or that (especially the threat of seizing my d**n boat) but maybe we should stop short of insulting our American neighbours for their choice of president...agreed? Glenn. s/vSeawing "Tamaroak" wrote in message ... The mayor of London, John Livingstone, calls Bush "the greatest living threat to life on this planet." I couldn't have said it better myself. Capt. jeff |
"Harry Krause" wrote George W. Bush...Armed, Dangerous, and Stupid... Just What the Terrorists Want & America Deserves That's an incorrect statement Harry, didn't you hear that 99 out of 100 terrorists polled preferred John Kerry for president?? |
Hello people! Sailing...cruising...the idea of stepping away from the
stresses of our over-stressed world and enjoying the people and nature that God created. Leave W and Fidel to figure themselves out. Go anchor somewhere without CNN. Glenn. s/vSeawing "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Phil wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote George W. Bush...Armed, Dangerous, and Stupid... Just What the Terrorists Want & America Deserves That's an incorrect statement Harry, didn't you hear that 99 out of 100 terrorists polled preferred John Kerry for president?? Was that based on exit polls tabulated by Diebold? -- George W. Bush...Armed, Dangerous, and Stupid... Just What the Terrorists Want & America Deserves |
Who is stressed? Maybe Diebold execs,,,,,,,not us :-)
"Glenn A. Heslop" wrote in message news:T59jd.133278$nl.22740@pd7tw3no... Hello people! Sailing...cruising...the idea of stepping away from the stresses of our over-stressed world and enjoying the people and nature that God created. Leave W and Fidel to figure themselves out. Go anchor somewhere without CNN. Glenn. s/vSeawing "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Phil wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote George W. Bush...Armed, Dangerous, and Stupid... Just What the Terrorists Want & America Deserves That's an incorrect statement Harry, didn't you hear that 99 out of 100 terrorists polled preferred John Kerry for president?? Was that based on exit polls tabulated by Diebold? -- George W. Bush...Armed, Dangerous, and Stupid... Just What the Terrorists Want & America Deserves |
lol :-)
Glenn. s/v Seawing "Phil" wrote in message om... Who is stressed? Maybe Diebold execs,,,,,,,not us :-) "Glenn A. Heslop" wrote in message news:T59jd.133278$nl.22740@pd7tw3no... Hello people! Sailing...cruising...the idea of stepping away from the stresses of our over-stressed world and enjoying the people and nature that God created. Leave W and Fidel to figure themselves out. Go anchor somewhere without CNN. Glenn. s/vSeawing "Harry Krause" wrote in message ... Phil wrote: "Harry Krause" wrote George W. Bush...Armed, Dangerous, and Stupid... Just What the Terrorists Want & America Deserves That's an incorrect statement Harry, didn't you hear that 99 out of 100 terrorists polled preferred John Kerry for president?? Was that based on exit polls tabulated by Diebold? -- George W. Bush...Armed, Dangerous, and Stupid... Just What the Terrorists Want & America Deserves |
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