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#11
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I 'pologize for shouting, but this is important.
Putting a flowerpot over a stove heater is a recipe for carbon monoxide. If you want to die, go ahead and do this for heat in your boat. "Gordon" wrote ... A clay flower pot upside down over the stove burner. R.W. Behan wrote: Let me second Gordon's suggestion. We live in NW Washington state, where the winters are not bitter cold, but bloody chilly. A flower pot--make SURE it is clay, and not plastic--about 6-8" in diameter will do an amazing job of heating the cabin, with radiant heat that seems to permeate all over the place. It is a very effective, very cheap sort of makeshift heater, but should do the trick for you. The problem here is that there is no way of guessing what the airflow into the burner is going to be, or the exhaust... most flowerpots have a small hole in the bottom which becomes the exhaust. A flowerpot over the burner creates a partial recirculation of air within a combustion chamber, with the result that it will *always* produce a higher percentage of carbon monoxide than an open flame, and there is a high risk that it will put out dangerous levels of CO. Remember too, CO builds up in the body, you can suffocate from CO poisoning in the presence of fresh air. In short, using a flowerpot over a stove burner to heat the cabin is a BAD IDEA! Regards Doug King |
#12
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Carbon monoxide still kills the odd boater (as mentioned in other replies).
I wouldn't run any kind of open flame inside my cabin, even assuming you have fresh intake air, without a CO detector (but I don't know how reliable they are). In fact, I wouldn't run a generator anywhere on the boat without a CO detector. But what about that? Do you have a generator? Would it make sense to use one to run an electric heater? That would keep the combustion out of the cabin itself (although fumes can still get everywhere, and you have to be careful, especially if there is no wind...). OTOH, I know that on the few occasions when I've used an electric heater while on shore power, the heat vanishes almost immediately as soon as I open the companionway. ==== Charles T. Low www.boatdocking.com ==== "rosso" wrote in message news Hi! ... We'll be sailing in the northern adriatic sea by christmas time... |
#13
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I am not really sure why a gas burner with a ceramic flower pot over
it would lead to more carbon monoxide than a gas burner without one. I am assuming the pot is upside down in the same location as a pot or pan would be, and not directly down on the stove, so there wouldn't be any more air restriction than with a pot or pan. In any case - open flames are run inside the cabin all the time with oil lamps, stoves, and heaters - some of which are oil fired and some are gas. Mostly the heaters have a flue to exhaust the gases generated. "Charles T. Low" [withoutUN] wrote: Carbon monoxide still kills the odd boater (as mentioned in other replies). I wouldn't run any kind of open flame inside my cabin, even assuming you have fresh intake air, without a CO detector (but I don't know how reliable they are). In fact, I wouldn't run a generator anywhere on the boat without a CO detector. I have heard that propane will set off the CO detectors. We have the CO detectors in our cabin(s) even though we have no heater (other than electric) there to detect CO from any source including the engine, even though diesel doesn't seem to generate as much CO as gas. We don't have a genset because Bob doesn't want a gasoline one (for reasons of flammability of the fuel as well as CO generation) and the diesel ones are too expensive. But what about that? Do you have a generator? Would it make sense to use one to run an electric heater? That would keep the combustion out of the cabin itself (although fumes can still get everywhere, and you have to be careful, especially if there is no wind...). OTOH, I know that on the few occasions when I've used an electric heater while on shore power, the heat vanishes almost immediately as soon as I open the companionway. I don't think it is that bad, and it isn't any different for electric heat than any other kind of heat. Although it may be that the space doesn't get as hot with electric heat. grandma Rosalie |
#14
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I've heard of using a large piece of marble (such as fancy kitchen
counter tops are made of) to place on top of the stove to act as a radiat heating device. DSK wrote: I 'pologize for shouting, but this is important. Putting a flowerpot over a stove heater is a recipe for carbon monoxide. If you want to die, go ahead and do this for heat in your boat. "Gordon" wrote ... A clay flower pot upside down over the stove burner. R.W. Behan wrote: Let me second Gordon's suggestion. We live in NW Washington state, where the winters are not bitter cold, but bloody chilly. A flower pot--make SURE it is clay, and not plastic--about 6-8" in diameter will do an amazing job of heating the cabin, with radiant heat that seems to permeate all over the place. It is a very effective, very cheap sort of makeshift heater, but should do the trick for you. The problem here is that there is no way of guessing what the airflow into the burner is going to be, or the exhaust... most flowerpots have a small hole in the bottom which becomes the exhaust. A flowerpot over the burner creates a partial recirculation of air within a combustion chamber, with the result that it will *always* produce a higher percentage of carbon monoxide than an open flame, and there is a high risk that it will put out dangerous levels of CO. Remember too, CO builds up in the body, you can suffocate from CO poisoning in the presence of fresh air. In short, using a flowerpot over a stove burner to heat the cabin is a BAD IDEA! Regards Doug King Larry Bradley VE3CRX Remove "removeme" from my e-mail address for direct mail Ottawa, Canada (use the e-mail address above to send directly to me) |
#15
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If you are in a marina I think electric heat is the best way to go but it
takes a little while to bring a cold boat up to temperature. The safest type of unit is the oil filled radiator style marketed by Delonghi and Pelorus. I have a 1500W Pelorus in my boat and it adds about 10C to the outside temperature. Cost $100 Cdn. For heating while at anchor I think the best way to go is a bulkhead mounted propane heater that is vented to the outside. These are easy to use and clean. I have a Dickenson Newport diesel bulkhead heater and while it heats very well it is a job to get it started and messy to clean out. I don't think a forced air unit like an Espar or Webasto is all that necessary. If you don't want the expense and trouble of installing a bulkhead unit I guess you need something portable. Since you probably need to leave a port open while running one of these units I question how much better they are than the flower pot over the galley range. If you have several people onboard I think you could use the flower pot method. With a couple of ports open you are not likely to have a problem and if CO does build up you are not all going to collapse at the same time. A common first symptom is a splitting headache. Anyone develops a headache its time to open the hatches. You could back this up with a CO detector, something you might be planning to add in the future. They don't seem to run for very long on one set of batteries though. Just don't run the stove at night One last thought. While running the engine to anchor, or enter the marina, could you leave the engine access open to get some engine heat into the boat? "rosso" wrote in message news Hi! I am planning a small sailing trip this winter and would like some advice on heating. We'll be sailing in the northern adriatic sea by christmas time. Water temperature by that time are still above 10 deg. C. (up to 13, it seems). The boat is about 35' and with no kind of heating/cooling system (well, it has a fridge). My main concern is to get the "dinette" warm (at least) for a couple of hours a day, from when we stop sailing to when we go to sleep. Warm means being able to eat without wearing heavy jackets and being able to dry wet clothes. Since this is a first-time experience i will not buy some expensive (but surely VERY useful) system (like WEBASTO). It could even be the last time, so I was trying to do it cheap. I have some experience in dinghy winter-sailing (snow, ice, blue hands, etc. etc.). But that's kind of different, because after a couple of hours you can always have a warm shower and bed! So any kind of other advice would be greatly appreciated! thanks -michele- |
#16
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One last thought. While running the engine to anchor, or enter the marina, could you leave the engine access open to get some engine heat into the boat? Consider to install a small automotive radiator in series with the freshwater side of the heat exchanger loop ... plus a small fan |
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