I recently purchased a used 1998 27 foot ProLine walk around with cuddy
cabin and an electric toilet. We need to empty the holding tank. I have no
documentation for the boat. Are there valves that need to be opened? If so
where are they? Do I turn on the macerator pump? Do I need to run the
electric toilet. Could someone let me know the procedure?

If you have a macerator pump, that means you should probably have a Y valve
somewhere and a deck pumpout fitting. The Y valve will select which way you
can discharge the waste. Within three miles of shore, you cannot legally
pump the waste overboard, so you'll have to set the Y valve so that the
waste can be pumped out through the deck pumpout. You should be able to
locate it by it's labeling, if not, just open and sniff. It should be easy
to find!

If your boat only has a macerator pump for discharging overboard, I'd
imagine you need to upgrade the system.

--


Keith
__
"I'll always be Number 1 to myself."
-Moses Malone
"jegros" wrote in message
...
I recently purchased a used 1998 27 foot ProLine walk around with cuddy
cabin and an electric toilet. We need to empty the holding tank. I have
no documentation for the boat. Are there valves that need to be opened?
If so where are they? Do I turn on the macerator pump? Do I need to run
the electric toilet. Could someone let me know the procedure?

Have Jax help you. He knows all about documentation and how to disseminate
s**t!

"jegros" wrote in message
...
| I recently purchased a used 1998 27 foot ProLine walk around with cuddy
| cabin and an electric toilet. We need to empty the holding tank. I have
no
| documentation for the boat. Are there valves that need to be opened? If
so
| where are they? Do I turn on the macerator pump? Do I need to run the
| electric toilet. Could someone let me know the procedure?
|
|

jegros wrote:
I recently purchased a used 1998 27 foot ProLine walk around with cuddy
cabin and an electric toilet. We need to empty the holding tank. I have no
documentation for the boat. Are there valves that need to be opened? If so
where are they? Do I turn on the macerator pump? Do I need to run the
electric toilet. Could someone let me know the procedure?

No you do not need to run the toilet. Is your toilet a self-contained
system--iow, the tank is directly below the toilet...no plumbing to a
remote tank anywhere--or do you have a separate toilet and tank?

Regardless of which system, you SHOULD have a line coming off the tank
(it's usually at the bottom, but could be on the top with a pickup tube
inside the tank) that goes to a deck pumpout fitting...that fitting will
look very much like your water and fuel fill fittings, but will have
"waste" stamped in the flange. To pump out the tank, you only need to
connect the pumpout to the that fitting...the dockhand should be able to
tell you how to do that. The pumpout will then pull the waste out of the
tank...it does not need any help from the macerator.

It's possible that there is either a tee or wye fitting in the pumpout
line--one side to the deck pumpout fitting, the other side to the
macerator and then to an overboard discharge fitting. As Keith has
already pointed out, it's illegal to dump a tank overboard in any US
waters...you must be out to sea at least 3 miles from the nearest point
on the whole US coastline to dump a tank legally.

If there is no deck pumpout fittng, the tank cannot be pumped out...only
dumped using the macerator...in which case--depending on the waters
you're in--you'll either have to to install a y-valve (you could use a
tee or wye fitting, but CG regs call for a y-valve...aka known as a
"diverter valve") and deck pumpout fitting to give you a choice between
having the tank pumped out...or--if you're not in coastal waters that
provide immediate access to open sea beyond the "3 mile limit"--re-route
the tank discharge hose to a new deck pumpout fitting.

Bottom line: to find out what you can do, you're gonna have to trace
your sanitation plumbing to find out where it goes.

Ok...now I'm gonna beat you up a bit: why did you use a system on your
boat before you knew how every part of it works? This time it was only
your holding tank...but for all you know, you may have damaged the
toilet. And if you also used the "just turn the key and go" approach to
everything else on your boat, that's a very good way to find yourself
several miles from shore--even in a lake--with a boat that's taking on
water, a dead engine...and without a clue what to do about it.

99% of problems with any system on a boat are caused by owners, ,and
could have been prevented...they're caused by ignorance of how to use
systems, ignorance of how to maintain any of 'em, resulting in neglect
of small problems until they become big expensive ones. So for Pete's
sake, learn how everything works and how to recognize when it isn't
working properly!

However, to your credit, you were paying at least enough attention to
know that your holding tank is full and did ask how to empty it...that
is, unless you only found out that it was when you saw waste spurting
out the vent.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1

"Peggie Hall" wrote in message
...
jegros wrote:
I recently purchased a used 1998 27 foot ProLine walk around with cuddy
cabin and an electric toilet. We need to empty the holding tank. I
have no
documentation for the boat. Are there valves that need to be opened?
If so
where are they? Do I turn on the macerator pump? Do I need to run the
electric toilet. Could someone let me know the procedure?

No you do not need to run the toilet. Is your toilet a self-contained
system--iow, the tank is directly below the toilet...no plumbing to a
remote tank anywhere--or do you have a separate toilet and tank?

Regardless of which system, you SHOULD have a line coming off the tank
(it's usually at the bottom, but could be on the top with a pickup tube
inside the tank) that goes to a deck pumpout fitting...that fitting will
look very much like your water and fuel fill fittings, but will have
"waste" stamped in the flange. To pump out the tank, you only need to
connect the pumpout to the that fitting...the dockhand should be able to
tell you how to do that. The pumpout will then pull the waste out of the
tank...it does not need any help from the macerator.

It's possible that there is either a tee or wye fitting in the pumpout
line--one side to the deck pumpout fitting, the other side to the
macerator and then to an overboard discharge fitting. As Keith has
already pointed out, it's illegal to dump a tank overboard in any US
waters...you must be out to sea at least 3 miles from the nearest point
on the whole US coastline to dump a tank legally.

If there is no deck pumpout fittng, the tank cannot be pumped out...only
dumped using the macerator...in which case--depending on the waters
you're in--you'll either have to to install a y-valve (you could use a
tee or wye fitting, but CG regs call for a y-valve...aka known as a
"diverter valve") and deck pumpout fitting to give you a choice between
having the tank pumped out...or--if you're not in coastal waters that
provide immediate access to open sea beyond the "3 mile limit"--re-route
the tank discharge hose to a new deck pumpout fitting.

Bottom line: to find out what you can do, you're gonna have to trace
your sanitation plumbing to find out where it goes.

Ok...now I'm gonna beat you up a bit: why did you use a system on your
boat before you knew how every part of it works? This time it was only
your holding tank...but for all you know, you may have damaged the
toilet. And if you also used the "just turn the key and go" approach to
everything else on your boat, that's a very good way to find yourself
several miles from shore--even in a lake--with a boat that's taking on
water, a dead engine...and without a clue what to do about it.

99% of problems with any system on a boat are caused by owners, ,and
could have been prevented...they're caused by ignorance of how to use
systems, ignorance of how to maintain any of 'em, resulting in neglect
of small problems until they become big expensive ones. So for Pete's
sake, learn how everything works and how to recognize when it isn't
working properly!

However, to your credit, you were paying at least enough attention to
know that your holding tank is full and did ask how to empty it...that
is, unless you only found out that it was when you saw waste spurting
out the vent.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1


"when you saw waste spurting out the vent."

Which vent?
c ya Wim

jegros wrote:

I recently purchased a used 1998 27 foot ProLine walk around with cuddy
cabin and an electric toilet. We need to empty the holding tank. I have no
documentation for the boat. Are there valves that need to be opened? If so
where are they? Do I turn on the macerator pump? Do I need to run the
electric toilet. Could someone let me know the procedure?



I empty mine by opening the "Port / Sea" through hull valve, closing
the vent lines ball valves and then, after donning my lucky shower
cap, safety goggles, filter mask and raincoat, pressurise the tank
by introducing 12 volt tire pump air into a vent line using an
automotive cooling system flush adapter and a "blow out nipple"
shraeder valve stem that threads into the flush fitting hose
connector, available for RV use or other line purging purposes.
When it farts, its done. It's a good way to test the joker valve.
If it leaks back, it gets replaced, pronto. If not, and after 3
years it still doesn't, we take bets on next time. The jackpot
accumulates, and guests contribute apace. I am considering a snug
fitting, pressure gasketed, plexiglass safety cover for the toilet
bowl, and a new rule that the flushor will collect 1/2 of the pot.
There are only two positions upon which to bet, and the bettors may
form teams, comines, or pools. THet may watch in witness, or absent
fortitude, may await hor's doerves in the cockpit.

As you may perceive the idea revolutionary or hazardous, consider
that submarines use air to dump ballast tanks every day, at depths
and pressures that are classified. My pressure system,
affectionately known as the poop cannon, needs lift the "ballast"
only about 15 inches, max. The poop chute / sea discharge is at the
waterline.

I have not yet had the temerity to try out the two elbo fittings for
the deck pump out fitting, the aimable nozzel of the cannon that
awaits those on PWCs who dare buzz me too closely, portside. The
lift height and pressures needed to permit a forceful discharge at
deck level are as yet unexplored, yet they beacon like skunky
sirens. Likewise, we have as yet not installed the ball valve in the
deck pumpout line (which has never needed using at all) that could
permit a controlled discharge of possibly the foulest weapon not as
yet banned in the articles of warfare and therefore, technically,
still a legal weapon.

The deck pump out poop canon fittings could also be used to empty
the holding tank in the driveway, into a garbage bucket for disposal
down the toilet in the basement, or at the local mall RV plaza dump
out. We preserve our alternatives.

Tire inflators cost $9.99 when on sale, but they are not marine
rated. I love multi use stuff.

You think Rodney Dangerfield "Didn't get no respect?"

Terry K

Willem deVries wrote:
"when you saw waste spurting out the vent."

Which vent?


All tanks--water, fuel and waste--have to be vented...'cuz unless air
displaced by incoming contents has an escape route, backpressure
prevents 'em from being filled--or in the case of holding tanks,
flushing pressurizes the tank. Air also has to have a way into a tank
replace contents as they're drawn out...otherwise, the pump (fuel pump,
water pump, dock pumpout or macerator) pulls a vacuum that prevents
anything more from being pulled out. That means it's very important to
make sure all the vent lines don't get blocked.

CG regs require that all fuel and waste holding tanks be vented to the
outside of the hull...so they all have a hose coming off the tank at or
on the top that goes to a thru-hull fitting somewhere on the hull (above
the waterline of course). To find it, just trace the line from the tank
to the hull.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1

Terry Spragg wrote:


I empty mine by...opening the "Port / Sea" through hull valve,
closing the vent lines ball valves and then, after donning my lucky
shower cap, safety goggles, filter mask and raincoat, pressurise the
tank...


Suuuure you do, Terry...and you're always offshore at least 3 miles to
do it, too.

However, on the off-chance that you AREN'T pulling our leg, it may not
be the dumbest idea I've heard this year, but it's a contender--an
excellent way to crack a tank...or worse.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1

Hello Peggie,

Saw your name and thought I would ask you a question.

I have been using Raratan KO now for a couple of years on my boat and
have been satisfied with it. However, the heads are Vac-U-Flush units
and I typically have a pumpout every week or so therefore it is hard to
judge how effective the KO treatment is.

Recently I was watching "Modern Marvels" on the History Channel and
the show was describing a huge waste water treatment plant. Several
large containers - basically huge holding tanks - called "Digestors" are
used to process the waste water. The Digestors are charged with live
bacteria that eats up the solids - similar to how KO is advertised to work.

The digestors were described as being heated to 120 degrees to activate
the bacteria. Without the heat it would take years for the bacteria to
reduce the solids according to the show narrator.

Is Raratan KO effective without heating the tank? I noticed on the
bottle that it warns against storing below 40 degrees, so I assume the
bacteria is temperature sensitive.

TIA.

Eisboch

Hi Eisboch...

I have been using Raratan KO now for a couple of years on my boat and
have been satisfied with it. However, the heads are Vac-U-Flush
units and I typically have a pumpout every week or so therefore it is
hard to judge how effective the KO treatment is.

The type of toilet has nothing to do with what happens in a holding
tank...the only thing ANY toilet can do is move waste from the bowl to
the tank. However, whether pumping out every week makes any difference
depends on the size of the tank.


Recently I was watching "Modern Marvels" on the History Channel and
the show was describing a huge waste water treatment plant. Several
large containers - basically huge holding tanks - called "Digestors"
are used to process the waste water. The Digestors are charged with
live bacteria that eats up the solids - similar to how KO is
advertised to work.

The digestors were described as being heated to 120 degrees to
activate the bacteria. Without the heat it would take years for the
bacteria to reduce the solids according to the show narrator.

I saw the same show. There are all kinds of bacteria, specifically
cultured to accomplish different things.Most can't stand temperatures
above 120 F--in fact, 120 F is the temperature at which milk is
pasteurized. But there are "hardier" strains specifically cultured to
withstand slightly higher temperatures. You also have to remember that
these TV shows are aimed at a mass market that doesn't have (or need) an
in-depth bio-chemistry education...so it's also entirely possible that
the tanks are only heated to 119.7--barely below the temp that's lethal
to bacteria...which producers of a show like Modern Marvels would round
off to 120. There's enough material in "not all bacteria are the same
and how different strains function" for at least two more similar shows!

Onboard sewage consists only of organic matter (body waste) and flush
water...anything that can do down a drain--including storm drains--ends
up in a sewage treatment plant...not only organic matter, but petroleum,
chemicals, rubber, plastics...you name it--if it can be flushed down a
toilet or a drain, it is...and it all has be broken down and separated
as part of sewage treatment. Sewage treatment doesn't completely
emulsify everything either...the goal is turn as much as possible into
liquid that's discharged...the remaining sludge is carried away to be
spread on lands owned by sewage treatment plants.

Why do they heat it? Because bacterial activity increases or decreases
with temperature...the warmer it is, the more active they are and the
faster they multiply, till the temp gets high enough to kill 'em (which
is why holding tank odor is more a problem in hot weather than in cold
weather). Conversely, the colder they are, the more sluggish they
become...going dormant below 40 F. The increase/decrease in bacterial
activity/mulitiplication is not a straight line, though...if you saw it
charted on graph, it would be fairly flat from 40 F through somewhere in
the mid-70's...then start to rise sharply with every degree. So the
objective in a sewage treatment plant is to heat the tanks to JUST BELOW
the temp that would start to kill the bacteria to make the li'l buggers
the most active they can be, to get as much done as quickly as possible.

Is Raratan KO effective without heating the tank?

Yes. The bacteria in KO multiplies at the same rate as the bacteria in
waste...so yes, it's affected by temperature, same as any other
bacteria. It's cultured to work at ambient temperature, which inside the
tank rises and falls with the temp of the flush water...solar heat or
onboard heat warming the boat, or heat from engines if the tank is in
the engine room etc.

I noticed on the
bottle that it warns against storing below 40 degrees...

It also warns against storing where the temperature can rise above
110...for instance, in your car or a dock locker in the sun in which
solar heat can produce temperatures close to 200 F...even higher.

so I assume
the bacteria is temperature sensitive.

All bacteria is...but when it comes to preventing odor, oxygen is the
"key ingredient" at any temperature...which is why those big tanks in
sewage treatment plants are also aerated.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1