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#1
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import duties and VAT
A few questions financial aspects of live aboard cruising....
I am English and plan to buy a US registered liveaboard boat in US. Although I intend to spend time in US waters and Caribbean initially, What is payable if I enter EU waters for a limited time and then leave, is there a time limit? Also are duties payable when I visit any other world cruising grounds? I intend to keep a small flat in England, what is the tax position if I am living away from UK for most of the time? Again, are there time limits etc. Can I still get my state pension paid if I am away from UK? Is there any angle to maximising this position etc? Thanks in advance for your advice. Ray |
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#3
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"JAXAshby" wrote in message
... Ray, while you can *register* a US vessel as a non-citizen, you can NOT --- document --- a US vessel as a non-citizen. In fact, as a non-citizen, you can not even move a US documented vessel without a qualified US citizen aboard. dems the rules. registration is done on the state level, documentation on the federal level. Hear to tell most Caribbean countries (non-French) will accept registration, at least for US registered vessels arriving with US citizens in command. I suspect you really, really, really don't want to travel in a registered boat as a non-US citizen to non-US countries. [snipped] -- I'm not sure I completely understand the finer point you are making here. If I travel from Aus to US and by a yacht second hand I can sail her away to anywhere in the world. What I can't do is buy a US yacht and still call it a US yacht? I think. You obviously understand the rules very well - can you explain a bit more for someone who doesn't. thanks Hoges in WA Remove the zeds. |
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#4
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First of all, jaxie doesn't understand the rules. His claim that a citizen must
be on documented vessels at all times is completely bogus. It may be true for commercial fishing vessels, but not for recreational boats. He is correct on the other point however. A non-citizen may not own (or in any way have a controlling interest in) a US "Documented" vessel. Therefore, the boat, if documented, must be undocumented before you buy it. After that, you can have it flagged in your home country (would that mean you have to pay the VAT?) or "registered" in whatever state of the US you reside in. However, a non-citizen owning a state registered boat is in an odd situation. I've heard that in this case you are not eligible for the normal cruising permit, and need special paperwork everytime you move the boat within the US. Further, the state title papers will not carry the same weight in Caribbean countries, especially since they will not match your papers. You should research this very carefully - you certainly want to have everything setup correctly before you buy. Try Googling "non-citizen documented vessel" and variations on that for hints. "Hoges in WA" wrote in message ... "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... Ray, while you can *register* a US vessel as a non-citizen, you can NOT --- document --- a US vessel as a non-citizen. In fact, as a non-citizen, you can not even move a US documented vessel without a qualified US citizen aboard. dems the rules. registration is done on the state level, documentation on the federal level. Hear to tell most Caribbean countries (non-French) will accept registration, at least for US registered vessels arriving with US citizens in command. I suspect you really, really, really don't want to travel in a registered boat as a non-US citizen to non-US countries. [snipped] -- I'm not sure I completely understand the finer point you are making here. If I travel from Aus to US and by a yacht second hand I can sail her away to anywhere in the world. What I can't do is buy a US yacht and still call it a US yacht? I think. You obviously understand the rules very well - can you explain a bit more for someone who doesn't. thanks Hoges in WA Remove the zeds. |
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#5
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First of all, jaxie doesn't understand the rules. His claim that a citizen
must be on documented vessels at all times is completely bogus. It may be true for commercial fishing vessels, but not for recreational boats. jeffies is wrong on this, and it has been argued before. Again, I say. jeffies is dead wrong on this. US documentation has been lost on recreational vessels found to being operating by a non-citizen with not citizens onboard and in command. dems the rules. |
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#6
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"JAXAshby" wrote in message ... First of all, jaxie doesn't understand the rules. His claim that a citizen must be on documented vessels at all times is completely bogus. It may be true for commercial fishing vessels, but not for recreational boats. jeffies is wrong on this, and it has been argued before. Again, I say. jeffies is dead wrong on this. You've made this claim before but never substantiated it. Its pretty easy to find the regs that require Fishing vessels to be command by citizens; why can't you find the regs that apply to recreational vessels? US documentation has been lost on recreational vessels found to being operating by a non-citizen with not citizens onboard and in command. So, you're claiming that non-citzens can't charter a documented vessel in US waters? I should be pretty easy to find a rule about that - how about it jaxie? |
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#7
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to be US documented, the vessel must be owned -- and operated -- by a US
citizen. That means as a non-US citizen you can not own or operate a US documented vessel. you *can* own and operate a _state_ *registered* vessel (state meaning one of the 50 states, or various US territories). However, many countries will not allow a vessel without country documentation to enter. many (most?) Caribbean countries will allow a state registered US vesse to enter without US (federal) documentation, because a US citizen from say Florida is more than welcome to spend his money in say the Bahamas. The French Caribbean countries are reported to fine US registered vessels for entering without "proper" US documentation. hope this helps. if not, ask again and I'll try to explain it better. I'm not sure I completely understand the finer point you are making here. If I travel from Aus to US and by a yacht second hand I can sail her away to anywhere in the world. What I can't do is buy a US yacht and still call it a US yacht? I think. You obviously understand the rules very well - can you explain a bit more for someone who doesn't. thanks Hoges in WA Remove the zeds. |
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#8
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"JAXAshby" wrote in message
... to be US documented, the vessel must be owned -- and operated -- by a US citizen. That means as a non-US citizen you can not own or operate a US documented vessel. you *can* own and operate a _state_ *registered* vessel (state meaning one of the 50 states, or various US territories). However, many countries will not allow a vessel without country documentation to enter. many (most?) Caribbean countries will allow a state registered US vesse to enter without US (federal) documentation, because a US citizen from say Florida is more than welcome to spend his money in say the Bahamas. The French Caribbean countries are reported to fine US registered vessels for entering without "proper" US documentation. hope this helps. if not, ask again and I'll try to explain it better. . I thinks I's gettin the jist of it. A US documented vessel belongs to a US citizen. He offers it for sale. I buy it. BUT I then must turn it into an Australian vessel and because I have done so Australia is then responsible for my actions on the high seas, not America. The USof A doesn't want a bucketload of Aussies or any-ies rushing about the high seas in vessels purporting to be US vessels - they reserve their responsibilities for their citizens. As long as I make the yacht Australian, I am then free (customs/immigration consenting) to tour the US and any other country that allows me as an Australian registered vessel, not a US registered vessel. Which makes sense. You were getting me on the finer turns of phraseology. Where you were using 'documented' I think I lost you - if I call it "registered" would that match what you meant? Hate to be painful but as retirement approaches this is a possibility. Strange as it may seem, a chappie from my little country seaside town on the other side of the world to you wandered off the the Caribbean to buy hisself a boat to sail back because of the vast range and modest prices and it's certainly something I'd consider. -- Hoges in WA Remove the zeds. |
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#9
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"Hoges in WA" wrote in message ... .... You were getting me on the finer turns of phraseology. Where you were using 'documented' I think I lost you - if I call it "registered" would that match what you meant? .... Its very simple: Documentation is a process you go through with the Federal Government. It makes the boat a "flagged vessel" of the US. It has to be measured, (the builder usually supplies measurement papers), and will have various endorsements, such as "recreational" or "fishing." Any legal claims and liens against the boat must be filed with the Coast Guard, so the documentation can serve as a clear title. Some boats are not eligible for documentation,or certain endorsements, other must be documented to be used for their purpose. Registration is a process you go through with state authorities, often the Registry of Motor Vehicles (the Environmental Police in MA). Some states don't require registration of documented vessels, other do. In any case, they can't require that the state numbers be put on a documented vessel, though some require a sticker. If you spend more than 60 (or is it 90?) days in a state, you may be required to follow their rules, including proving that the appropriate sales tax has been paid, so make sure you carry the receipt for the original payment. Most small boats in the US are registered, but not documented. Larger vessels, especially commercial, are generally documented. Usually, documentation is viewed as an advantage. It can simplify selling or mortgaging a boat, and is sometimes viewed more favorably by authorities. But the rules are quite clear - a non-citizen may not own or in any way control a documented vessel. |
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#10
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close, but a couple of points
boats can be "registered" with a state (New York, Alabama, California, Guam, etc), and usually have to be to kept in use in that state for some period of time. you do not need to be a US citizen to register or use a boat in any state. mostly, you just have to pay your fees. state registration is usually not recognized by national governments of the world. boats can be "documented" by the US Coast Guard. There are some requirements to this. one is the owner MUST be a US citizen (can include a US corporation). Another is that the vessel can never be "under the command" of a non-US citizen. (the reason for this is national defense, for if a war comes up all US documented vessels are owned by US citizens, who presumably are loyal to the US. This is more important with cargo vessels, but the documentation process is the same for recreational vessels). Documentation is normally required by other countries for a vessel to enter. I thinks I's gettin the jist of it. A US documented vessel belongs to a US citizen. He offers it for sale. I buy it. BUT I then must turn it into an Australian vessel and because I have done so Australia is then responsible for my actions on the high seas, not America. The USof A doesn't want a bucketload of Aussies or any-ies rushing about the high seas in vessels purporting to be US vessels - they reserve their responsibilities for their citizens. As long as I make the yacht Australian, I am then free (customs/immigration consenting) to tour the US and any other country that allows me as an Australian registered vessel, not a US registered vessel. Which makes sense. You were getting me on the finer turns of phraseology. Where you were using 'documented' I think I lost you - if I call it "registered" would that match what you meant? Hate to be painful but as retirement approaches this is a possibility. Strange as it may seem, a chappie from my little country seaside town on the other side of the world to you wandered off the the Caribbean to buy hisself a boat to sail back because of the vast range and modest prices and it's certainly something I'd consider. -- Hoges in WA Remove the zeds. |
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