hi all. i am currently in rersearch mode looking for a cruising sailboat.
have read some, have a lot more to read and learn. most of the web sites
and forums i have gone to seem to be primarily east coast stuff. i will be
on west coast, southern california. my plans are to cruise up and down the
coast, possibly alaska, possibly hawaii. im 57 and a few creature comforts
are more important than speed. i dont want a boat that will beat me up, and
i dont want a boat that if the wind kicks up a bit i have to fold my tent
and go home.

ok, on many forums they talk about how heavy and slow cruisers are. does
that mean you have to have heavy winds to sail in them?? i dont want to be
sitting in the marina/mooring , whatever, while a bunch of lighter boats are
out on the water. how much wind does it take to move one of these boats??
right now, im very interested in a westsail 32. i have about 50k to spend.
so far the only thing bad i have read about these boats is they are slow.
not an issue with me as long as you dont need a hurricane to get them
moving.

i have also read that all boats are a comprimise. i can understand that. are
there any good solid boats that are maybe a happy medium?? comfort that will
still sail in light winds?? we dont have a lot of heavy wind in this area,
but you never know when you may run into some. safety and strength are more
important than speed to me.

i plan on living aboard a great deal of the time. i have a house in socal i
can go to if i want to, but i let my mother and sister live there, and a
little bit of both of them is enough for me for several weeks/months/years.
but can live there if i have to. point being, i want something with at least
some creature comforts. hot water, nice head with shower, and a galley thats
usable. comfortable bed.

anyway, seems like the more i read the more confused i become. some insight
from you old salts would be greatly appreciated. by the way, anyone ever
hear of a yorktown?? apparently a well made boat, but havnt seen too much
about them even on a google search. thanks for any input here. regards, j.d.

On the spectrum of light vs heavy boats, the Westsail 32 is certainly
out towards the heavy end of things. Many derisively refer to them as
the "Westsnail". On the other hand, many of them have been successively
cruised. Some friends of ours, were in New Zealand last I heard (they
started 5 years ago in N. Calif) and love their boat. My wife and I
think the ideal is out toward the ehavy end, but not quite that far out.
Our Tayana weighs in at about 22,500 lb.s (dry) and is 37' on deck
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG.

For sailing around S. Calif, light winds are not uncommon and you may
find yourself motoring more than you now anticipate in such a heavy boat.

You also speak to a desire of "a few creature comforts". While many
(including me) find the motion of a heavier boat more pleasant (and much
less tiring) than that of lighter weight ones, the bottom line is that
there's not a whole lot of room for those creature comforts in a 32'
boat. Our last boat was a Catalina 30 and we did a lot with it,
includeing taking it down to the Sea of Cortez, but we REALLY appreciate
the extra tankage, storage and living space the bigger boat brings.

You've stated a $50K budget and a desire to cross oceans (to Hawaii &
Alaska). This seems like a reasonable budget for a good quality, low
end cruising boat to me. you can certainly spend a lot more, but you
don't have to. If you're willing to limit your cruising range to San
Francisco down to Mexico, you can get by a lot cheaper ( $20K). A
quick search for Westsails on yachtworld.com shows a number of them in
the $40K - $50K range. There is even one listed in Alameda (SF Bay
area) for $27.5K. Don't forget, while you'll probably buy it for less
than the asking price, you'll also have to pay Calif. sales tax on it
and put anywhere from 10% - 30% of the initial cost into it to get it
ready.

- Dan - T minus 29 days (but whose counting?)

jds wrote:

hi all. i am currently in rersearch mode looking for a cruising sailboat.
have read some, have a lot more to read and learn. most of the web sites
and forums i have gone to seem to be primarily east coast stuff. i will be
on west coast, southern california. my plans are to cruise up and down the
coast, possibly alaska, possibly hawaii. im 57 and a few creature comforts
are more important than speed. i dont want a boat that will beat me up, and
i dont want a boat that if the wind kicks up a bit i have to fold my tent
and go home.

ok, on many forums they talk about how heavy and slow cruisers are. does
that mean you have to have heavy winds to sail in them?? i dont want to be
sitting in the marina/mooring , whatever, while a bunch of lighter boats are
out on the water. how much wind does it take to move one of these boats??
right now, im very interested in a westsail 32. i have about 50k to spend.
so far the only thing bad i have read about these boats is they are slow.
not an issue with me as long as you dont need a hurricane to get them
moving.

i have also read that all boats are a comprimise. i can understand that. are
there any good solid boats that are maybe a happy medium?? comfort that will
still sail in light winds?? we dont have a lot of heavy wind in this area,
but you never know when you may run into some. safety and strength are more
important than speed to me.

i plan on living aboard a great deal of the time. i have a house in socal i
can go to if i want to, but i let my mother and sister live there, and a
little bit of both of them is enough for me for several weeks/months/years.
but can live there if i have to. point being, i want something with at least
some creature comforts. hot water, nice head with shower, and a galley thats
usable. comfortable bed.

anyway, seems like the more i read the more confused i become. some insight
from you old salts would be greatly appreciated. by the way, anyone ever
hear of a yorktown?? apparently a well made boat, but havnt seen too much
about them even on a google search. thanks for any input here. regards, j.d.



--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean"
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

thanks for the reply dan. nice boat by the way. advice noted and
appreciated. another question: how much larger is a 37' boat than a 32'
boat? as a complete fng, 5 feet doesnt seem that much longer. how much more
living space is gained by the additional footage?

would you consider your boat medium displacement?? medium heavy??? does it
sail ok in light winds??

i dont think i want to limit myself to the bay area south as i have friends
and family in seattle and coos bay oregon. would like to visit them and the
only time i was in alaska was in an airport on the way to se asia. would
like to go there again and spend some time fishing.

50k is what i have budgeted for the boat itself, i understand there will be
additional costs. do you think i would be better off buying one already
equiped for cruising?? one that has been cruised and refitted over one i
have to fit myself?? thanks again for the advise and take god care. regards,
j.d.

oh, as a ps. i talked to a broker in socal and he said if you go to mexico
for 91 days, you dont have to pay calif sales tax. i guess if i had to (g) i
could spend some time there doing whatever. probably end up spending more
than the sales tax, but at least would get something in return. thanks
again, j.d.

On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 04:57:29 -0700, "jds" wrote:
thanks for the reply dan. nice boat by the way. advice noted and
appreciated. another question: how much larger is a 37' boat than a 32'
boat? as a complete fng, 5 feet doesnt seem that much longer. how much more
living space is gained by the additional footage?

==========================================

As a general rule the size of a boat increases in proportion to the
cube of its length. In other words a 48 foot boat is about 8 times
larger than a 24 foot boat. That may seem extreme but try looking at
both a 24 and a 48 and you'll see for yourself. The rationale is that
not only does the length increase but also the depth and width. Since
a 37 foot boat is 1.15 times as long as a 32, and 1.15 cubed is 1.52,
you can infer that the 37 will have about 50% more usable space.

jds wrote:
how much larger is a 37' boat than a 32'
boat? as a complete fng, 5 feet doesnt seem that much longer. how much more
living space is gained by the additional footage?

As Wayne pointed out, volume increases as the cube of the length, but
it's even more than that because there are some areas that are
relatively fixed in size: Cockpit, galley, head, chain locker, etc.. So
the bulk of the added volume goes directly into the living and storage
areas. BTW, if you're going to be living aboard, the importance of
readily available storage (drawers and lockers) can't be stressed
enough. A major downfall just about all of the smaller boats and most
of the coastal cruisers (Hunter, Catalina, Benateau, etc.) is their lack
in this area (tankage is another).

would you consider your boat medium displacement?? medium heavy??? does it
sail ok in light winds??

I think just about everybody would consider the Tayana a heavy
displacement cruiser. It's got a pretty generous sail plan though so it
moves right along. We were pleasantly surprised at its' performance,
especially in light airs. We were expecting it to be something of a
pig. We did add an asymmetrical spinnaker for light wind sailing and
are VERY pleased with it http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/SPIN3.jpg.


i dont think i want to limit myself to the bay area south...

No reason why you should, it was just an option I threw out. You should
note however that going north from San Francisco up to Washington can be
a very rough trip. Heck, coming down is a rough one for a lot of people
and going upwind and into the waves is much worse. We also plan on
spending a season in Alaska, but will be getting there via Hawaii.


50k is what i have budgeted for the boat itself, i understand there will be
additional costs. do you think i would be better off buying one already
equiped for cruising??

In general, it's more cost effective to buy gear with the boat than
purchasing and installing it yourself. You have to put up with the PO
(Previous Owner) idiosyncrasies (I refer to my PO as "electrically
challenged" and have replaced ALL of the non-factory installed wiring
that was in the boat), but costwise it's usually a bunch cheaper.

oh, as a ps. i talked to a broker in socal and he said if you go to mexico
for 91 days, you dont have to pay calif sales tax.

I don't know the details here, but it's my understanding that this law
is in the process of changing. Be very careful here as we're talking
about thousands of dollars.

One last piece of advice. Get out and start looking at some boats.
Contact some brokers and get aboard and poke your nose into LOTS of
different boats. You'll get a feel for not only the many different
styles of boats, but they're general market value. It's a buyers market
and has been for some time, so there are a lot of boats out there and
they stay on the market for a long time. Take your time looking. If
one your interested in sells before you make an offer on it, no big
deal, There are lots more to choose from. The time to fall in love
with a boat is AFTER it's yours, not while you're trying to buy it.

Good luck - Dan

--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean"
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

again, thank you for the advice and information, dan, wayne. in 2 weeks im
going to socal and spend a couple days looking at various boats. will know
more then. i live in las vegas, and although the lake we have here is quite
large, not many boats over 30 feet or so and all day sailer type craft.
o'day, etc. i have not seen a serious boat at any of the marinas. which of
course is quite natural, as that is what they are used for. one very nice
pearson. dont know how seaworthy they are but it is a very nice boat for the
lake. once again, thanks for the advice. it is appreciated and well taken.
best regards, j.d.

jds

You've got some good advice from Dan. I would agree that buying a boat that
is already outfitted as close to what you want is the best approach. You
sort of get the equipment and installation cost/work for free. I would also
agree that you need to get out and look at a lot of boats in your price
range and a little above. Have a look at some that are a bit more costly to
see what the extra dollars buy.

I think for 50k you may be bit limited in choices for heavier displacement
offshore capable cruisers, at least ones that equipped well enough and
decent enough to live aboard. I've been contemplating this for a while and
for my daydreaming I think 75 to 100k would get me a well equipped offshore-
capable long distance cruiser. I've pretty much concluded the Tayana 37
seems to give the most bang for the bucks in this class. I think if you
have a big genoa and good condition sails these boats will move OK on any
day that's worth going out on. I see on Yachtworld there is an older one in
Alameda for 49k but usually they are 75k+.

If most of your sailing will be coastal you don't really need all the
storage of an offshore boat and could get buy with something like an early
'80s Hunter 37, a Pearson 36 or C&C 38. I think you might get one for close
to 50k and they have enough storage for living aboard. I'm currently living
on my C&C 37. If you wanted to make a trip to Hawaii you do it on one of
these boats. You don't mention how much sailing experience you have or if
you would have crew?
One of these larger boats might be a bit much if you don't have experience
or experienced crew.

As Dan says, take your time to work through this and come back with
questions as they come up. The more time you take the more likely you will
be very satisfied in the end. Lastly, I think it was John Vigor who advised
"buy the boat that makes you smile when you turn around to look at her while
rowing away".......


"jds" wrote in message
news:3KPZc.785$aW5.646@fed1read07...
hi all. i am currently in rersearch mode looking for a cruising sailboat.
have read some, have a lot more to read and learn. most of the web sites
and forums i have gone to seem to be primarily east coast stuff. i will be
on west coast, southern california. my plans are to cruise up and down the
coast, possibly alaska, possibly hawaii. im 57 and a few creature comforts
are more important than speed. i dont want a boat that will beat me up,
and
i dont want a boat that if the wind kicks up a bit i have to fold my tent
and go home.

ok, on many forums they talk about how heavy and slow cruisers are. does
that mean you have to have heavy winds to sail in them?? i dont want to be
sitting in the marina/mooring , whatever, while a bunch of lighter boats
are
out on the water. how much wind does it take to move one of these boats??
right now, im very interested in a westsail 32. i have about 50k to spend.
so far the only thing bad i have read about these boats is they are slow.
not an issue with me as long as you dont need a hurricane to get them
moving.

i have also read that all boats are a comprimise. i can understand that.
are
there any good solid boats that are maybe a happy medium?? comfort that
will
still sail in light winds?? we dont have a lot of heavy wind in this area,
but you never know when you may run into some. safety and strength are
more
important than speed to me.

i plan on living aboard a great deal of the time. i have a house in socal
i
can go to if i want to, but i let my mother and sister live there, and a
little bit of both of them is enough for me for several
weeks/months/years.
but can live there if i have to. point being, i want something with at
least
some creature comforts. hot water, nice head with shower, and a galley
thats
usable. comfortable bed.

anyway, seems like the more i read the more confused i become. some
insight
from you old salts would be greatly appreciated. by the way, anyone ever
hear of a yorktown?? apparently a well made boat, but havnt seen too much
about them even on a google search. thanks for any input here. regards,
j.d.

hi gordon, and thanks for the reply. as far as sailing experience, i have
none. have been on a few , but was never driving the boat, just riding. i
plan on taking some lessons and sail around in the bay for a while untill i
am comfortable enough with my skills to go out of the breakwater. im not on
any particular schedule, so time frame doesnt really matter.

i wont have any experienced crew. im ready to make the move, but not sure if
my present girl friend is or not. if she does, fine , if she doesnt, ill
find one who is. i wont be going off on any long trips alone. i will be
doing a lot of single hand sailing. if the weather is good, and i want to go
out and practice a bit, im not going to wait for somebody to decide if they
want to go along or not. im going.

i think most of my sailing will no doubt be coastal, with the occasional
trip to oregon, possibly alaska, possibly hawaii. more often to mexico, or
santa barbara, san diego etc. just screwing around in general and enjoying
myself and significant other. being as worthless as possible, other than
tending to the boat etc.

anyway, going to fly to lax in a couple three weeks and go hit some marinas
and get a little better idea of what im looking at and what i think my
requirements will be. should be fun and informative. get out of the heat for
a couple days. while i think a coastal boat may suffice, i also want one
stout enough to cruise in if the feeling grabs me.

thanks again to all for the advice. it is most appreciated. best regards,
j.d.
"Gordon Wedman" wrote in message
news:NFq%c.155425$X12.69348@edtnps84...

j.d.,
I'm gonna jump in here with a bit of advice. Feel free to ignore it,
but based on the info you've given below, Since you state that there is
no real time frame, I'd suggest planning to do this in a couple of
steps. Get something smaller for a year or so. Say a 27'-30' coastal
cruiser. This will be more than enough for exploring anywhere from San
Diego to Santa Barbara, including the Channel Islands.

- It's cheap. Having never sailed much before, you may find that the
reality doesn't live up to the dream. Many find that it doesn't and are
then in the position of having a huge amount of capitol tied up in a
boat they detest and can't sell for months. Smaller boats sell much
faster than the larger cruisers simply because there's a larger market
for them. If you get an older one that's already fully depreciated,
you'll be able to sell it for just about what you paid for it.

- You'll learn much faster on a smaller boat. The ideal is to start on
something smaller than this, either a sailing dinghy or perhaps a day
sailor up to about 25' and doing this in 3 steps.

- It's safer. You're going to make mistakes. We all do. Because the
forces involved are smaller, you're mistakes are less likely to injure
somebody. In a small boat, muscle power can often prevent an
unfortunate outcome of a mistake. In a 24,000 lb boat, your mistakes
are far more likely to injure some or damage yours or someone else's boat.

- It's cheap. When you make those mistakes and wind up having to pay to
have a boat repaired, smaller boats are LOT'S cheaper to fix and do much
less damage to the other guy's boat.

- Learning to maneuver around the docks in a 24,000 lb. momentum machine
is like trying to learn to drive using a fully loaded semi in a wet ice
covered crowded parking lot. It can get real expensive, real fast.

Good luck, whatever you decide - Dan

jds wrote:
hi gordon, and thanks for the reply. as far as sailing experience, i have
none. have been on a few , but was never driving the boat, just riding. i
plan on taking some lessons and sail around in the bay for a while untill i
am comfortable enough with my skills to go out of the breakwater. im not on
any particular schedule, so time frame doesnt really matter.

i wont have any experienced crew. im ready to make the move, but not sure if
my present girl friend is or not. if she does, fine , if she doesnt, ill
find one who is. i wont be going off on any long trips alone. i will be
doing a lot of single hand sailing. if the weather is good, and i want to go
out and practice a bit, im not going to wait for somebody to decide if they
want to go along or not. im going.

i think most of my sailing will no doubt be coastal, with the occasional
trip to oregon, possibly alaska, possibly hawaii. more often to mexico, or
santa barbara, san diego etc. just screwing around in general and enjoying
myself and significant other. being as worthless as possible, other than
tending to the boat etc.

anyway, going to fly to lax in a couple three weeks and go hit some marinas
and get a little better idea of what im looking at and what i think my
requirements will be. should be fun and informative. get out of the heat for
a couple days. while i think a coastal boat may suffice, i also want one
stout enough to cruise in if the feeling grabs me.

thanks again to all for the advice. it is most appreciated. best regards,
j.d.
"Gordon Wedman" wrote in message
news:NFq%c.155425$X12.69348@edtnps84...



--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean"
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

Hi jds
If you are just starting out and will not often have crew you probably don't
want a boat much over 30 feet. Dan's idea of starting small and working up
is a good one except that you may find it difficult to live comfortably on
some of these smaller boats. Something like a Pearson 28, C&C 29, Catalina
30 might fit the bill. I think these are reasonably easy to sell at a later
date. You wouldn't want to take one of these to Hawaii but could harbour
hop up the coast. If you are going to do a lot of singlehanding a boat with
roller furling and an autopilot will make this a lot easier. I don't really
agree with Dan about starting on a dingy. In my opinion, capsizing and
being dumped into cold water is not an integral part of sailing. It may
turn you off and it most likely will not interest your girlfriend. I
basically learned to sail on J24s and I think these are sensitive enough. I
wouldn't recommend anything but a keelboat to a newcomer. I would recommend
taking a couple of ASA courses in your home area. You will learn much
faster than if you try on your own and you might find some crewmates. Take
your girlfriend along. If you are presently compatible in everything, but
sailing is a question mark, its probably a lot easier to get her into
sailing than to start all over again with someone else.
Good luck and remember, its supposed to be fun.

"jds" wrote in message
news:35N%c.16498$aW5.15058@fed1read07...
hi gordon, and thanks for the reply. as far as sailing experience, i have
none. have been on a few , but was never driving the boat, just riding. i
plan on taking some lessons and sail around in the bay for a while untill
i
am comfortable enough with my skills to go out of the breakwater. im not
on
any particular schedule, so time frame doesnt really matter.

i wont have any experienced crew. im ready to make the move, but not sure
if
my present girl friend is or not. if she does, fine , if she doesnt, ill
find one who is. i wont be going off on any long trips alone. i will be
doing a lot of single hand sailing. if the weather is good, and i want to
go
out and practice a bit, im not going to wait for somebody to decide if
they
want to go along or not. im going.

i think most of my sailing will no doubt be coastal, with the occasional
trip to oregon, possibly alaska, possibly hawaii. more often to mexico, or
santa barbara, san diego etc. just screwing around in general and enjoying
myself and significant other. being as worthless as possible, other than
tending to the boat etc.

anyway, going to fly to lax in a couple three weeks and go hit some
marinas
and get a little better idea of what im looking at and what i think my
requirements will be. should be fun and informative. get out of the heat
for
a couple days. while i think a coastal boat may suffice, i also want one
stout enough to cruise in if the feeling grabs me.

thanks again to all for the advice. it is most appreciated. best regards,
j.d.
"Gordon Wedman" wrote in message
news:NFq%c.155425$X12.69348@edtnps84...