On 27 Aug 2004 11:23:29 +0200, (Andreas
Borchert) wrote:

Terry Spragg wrote:
Chris Newport wrote:
If the hull is not designed for planing under power you
will not be able exceed the hull speed, so more power is
a waste.

Twaddle.

More power = more speed.

This has an asymptotical limit, though.

Andreas.

Hmmm...asymptotic graphs usually present in some form like
y = 1/x
aren't they?

I suspect you have in mind a characteristic of this kind:
y = 1 - exp(-x)

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

Bill and hopefully Jax,

You are on home ground here so here goes th whole story:

The Sailfish was introduced in the mid fifties as a plywood boat. they
were 11'9" long and 3'4?" beam because marine plywood in 4*12 sheet was
relatively available (there were a whole of of wood boats being built).
They were available "ready to sail" or as a kit.

I have forgotten the name of the original builder, but he was in
Connecticut.

The boat was an instant hit - but it had a short coming. It did not
have enough bouyancy for two adults.

About the time Alcort bought the design, the Super Sailfish was
introduced. It had aluminum spars. The fiberglass version was anounced
shortly after that and boats were available as plywood kits or finished
plastic. Plastic were originally uncompetitive because they were too
limber and the bottom would "oil can". Alcort tried to stiffen it up
but added too much weight on the first try.

By the early sixties the class was starting to roll, but not well
received by many because the "boats were too tippy" and hard to hang on
to when heeled. This set Alcort to looking around.

There was a guy (on Long Island as I recall) building Sunfish in
plywood. He had tried to copy the sailfish but improve on it. So, he
added to the beam. He still had the "hang on problem. So, he want to
build a cockpit version that would have been a lot more cockpit, but but
the structural issues of plywood nixxed that. The three or five
(accounts vary) Sunfish with cockpits that were he made were all plywood.

This Alcort was looking around and they found the guy building Sunfish
in plywood. They took one back to the plant and came back and bought
the company (the next week -so the story was told). They were soon
producing both Super Sailfish and Sunfish in the same plant. Very
shortly, the Sailfish was only sold order to the few remaining that were
racing the class.

Almost everything was the same except the hull and the daggerboard.
Because the Sunfish hull was about three inches thicker, they added the
length to the board.

There were some interesting stories about people that got shipped
Sailfish with a Sunfish board. They could bang to weather, but if they
pulled the board up to where it could rock aft to run, then they could
not gybe without the boom catching on the board.

So Jax, if you actually have a Sunfish without a well (as we always
called it). Hang on to it.

Matt Colie (also the end of a line of wooden spar builders)



wrote:

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:07:45 -0400, Matt Colie
wrote:


Well Jax,

You have got to tell us how you got a Sunfish without the footwell.

The only one ever build was a mismakenly built (too much beam) Sailfish.
It was plywood and so were all the Sunfish that he built to use the
Sailfish rig and other parts. Other people liked it, and still had
trouble staying on the board, so he built all the remainder with the
"cockpit" until Alcort bought the design from him and made them in plastic.

If it was made by Alcort, is plastic and has the less beam, then it is a
Sailfish (different class).

If it is plastic and has the 4'1" beam, then it is a knock-off made in
the mid ti late sixties by several comanies that are gone now.

Matt Colie (as a small boat sailor)
Lifelong Waterman, and Perpetual Sailor



Alcort made a plastic model called the "Super Sailfish", that was
essentially a Sunfish without the footwell. It used all the same
components, rigging and sails as the Sunfish.

Jax doesn't own any boats, and does not sail. If there was ever a
person needing a boat with "sissy" accessories or design features,
it's Jax.

BB



JAXAshby wrote:

Not being able to get
out on the water recently makes me obsessive.


do as I do, sail a Sunfish (the classic model without the sissy footwell). No
worry about fuel. :-)

(JAXAshby) wrote in message ...
Unfortunately, till mid or late September,
the air is deathly still except during thunderstorms here.


so, we don't sail unless thunderstorms are likely.

In that case, I sit back and drink a beer and videotape you sailing,
ZZZZZZZZZZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPPPP!
Great entertainment. You win by default but the rest of us also win.

Yes, Stevenson Project Minicups. They sail great. Not sure its legal
to have that much fun.

So Jax, if you actually have a Sunfish without a well (as we always
called it). Hang on to it.

Matt Colie

Matt, I have never sailed a Sunfish, or Sailfish, in my life. I use the term
"Sunfish, without the sissy footwell" when people ask me what I sail I don't
wish to tell them I have in fact seen Sunfish sailed by mid teenage girls with
relative ease in 25+ knots winds. I figure it is one hell of a boat. After
all, it has been produced in quantity for half a century. Kinda like an
Optimist pram or a Folkboat. Something has GOT to be right.

More power = more speed.

This has an asymptotical limit, though.


JAXAshby wrote:
bull****, doc. you may well know what the the word "asymptotical" means but
you don't know squat about the shape of the power curve of a boat at or
anywhere near hull speed.

Why don't you explain it to us, Jaxxie?

Most of us could use a good laugh.

DSK

More power = more speed.

This has an asymptotical limit, though.


JAXAshby wrote:
bull****, doc. you may well know what the the word "asymptotical" means
but
you don't know squat about the shape of the power curve of a boat at or
anywhere near hull speed.

Why don't you explain it to us, Jaxxie?

Most of us could use a good laugh.

DSK

here you go, dougies.

as·ymp·tote ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sm-tt, -mp-)
n.
A line whose distance to a given curve tends to zero. An asymptote may or may
not intersect its associated curve

More power = more speed.

This has an asymptotical limit, though.

JAXAshby wrote:
you don't know squat about the shape of the power curve of a boat at or
anywhere near hull speed.

JAXAshby wrote:
as·ymp·tote ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sm-tt, -mp-)
n.
A line whose distance to a given curve tends to zero. An asymptote may or may
not intersect its associated curve

And you're saying that the power curve of a boat "at or near hull speed"
does not have an asymptote?

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
More power = more speed.

This has an asymptotical limit, though.

JAXAshby wrote:
you don't know squat about the shape of the power curve of a boat at or
anywhere near hull speed.

JAXAshby wrote:
as·ymp·tote ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sm-tt, -mp-)
n.
A line whose distance to a given curve tends to zero. An asymptote may
or may
not intersect its associated curve

And you're saying that the power curve of a boat "at or near hull speed"
does not have an asymptote?

No. As I have always learned it and according to the mathematic literature,
an asymptote will NEVER reach or cross it's associated curve. So if the
power curve of a boat would be an asymptote, the boat would never be able to
reach hull speed, which is not true. If you apply enough power, the speed
WILL get higher than hull speed.

Meindert

dougies, what word didn't you understand? I mean in addition to asymptote?

More power = more speed.

This has an asymptotical limit, though.

JAXAshby wrote:
you don't know squat about the shape of the power curve of a boat at or
anywhere near hull speed.

JAXAshby wrote:
as·ymp·tote ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sm-tt, -mp-)
n.
A line whose distance to a given curve tends to zero. An asymptote may or
may
not intersect its associated curve

And you're saying that the power curve of a boat "at or near hull speed"
does not have an asymptote?

DSK

oh, Meindert. You spoil all the fun. Just when I was beginning to toy with
dougies -- what him telling one and all what a genius he is -- you come along
and point out the high school math involved. damn! maybe next time.

have fun Meindert.

More power = more speed.

This has an asymptotical limit, though.

JAXAshby wrote:
you don't know squat about the shape of the power curve of a boat at or
anywhere near hull speed.

JAXAshby wrote:
as·ymp·tote ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sm-tt, -mp-)
n.
A line whose distance to a given curve tends to zero. An asymptote may
or may
not intersect its associated curve

And you're saying that the power curve of a boat "at or near hull speed"
does not have an asymptote?

No. As I have always learned it and according to the mathematic literature,
an asymptote will NEVER reach or cross it's associated curve. So if the
power curve of a boat would be an asymptote, the boat would never be able to
reach hull speed, which is not true. If you apply enough power, the speed
WILL get higher than hull speed.

Meindert