On 11 Aug 2004 18:33:16 -0700, (Rolf) wrote:

For me Computers is a learn-as-you-go thing and therefore I am leaning
to the cheap PC route. Maybe I can use the LCD monitor also as TV for
watching movies and therfore would get a larger monitor thatn usually
comes with a laptop.

Something else to consider is this: a 15 inch LCD display is well
under $500 these days and can also display chartplotter info, GPS,
radar and whatnot when hooked into the appropriate "black boxes"

To my mind, getting separate displays or "multi-function marine"
display at six or seven inches across is silly when you can have the
same info on an LCD screen in a waterproof bag on an armature in the
companionway. When needed, fire it up and pull the screen into
view...when finished, push it back into relative weather protection.

I have heard of people using infrared controls and wireless mice to
"click" between GPS, charts, radar and the evening news on LCDs hooked
into small PCs and the appropriate sensing units...the point is that
ANY relatively current PC is much more powerful and adaptable than a
single task-oriented "marine" display, like a chart plotter.

Of course, there's the "all eggs in one basket" argument, but that's
why you throw a handheld GPS with extra batteries into the "crash
box".

R.

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 01:47:52 -0400, rhys wrote:

Something else to consider is this: a 15 inch LCD display is well
under $500 these days and can also display chartplotter info, GPS,
radar and whatnot when hooked into the appropriate "black boxes"

To my mind, getting separate displays or "multi-function marine"
display at six or seven inches across is silly when you can have the
same info on an LCD screen in a waterproof bag on an armature in the
companionway. When needed, fire it up and pull the screen into
view...when finished, push it back into relative weather protection.

I have heard of people using infrared controls and wireless mice to
"click" between GPS, charts, radar and the evening news on LCDs hooked
into small PCs and the appropriate sensing units...the point is that
ANY relatively current PC is much more powerful and adaptable than a
single task-oriented "marine" display, like a chart plotter.

Of course, there's the "all eggs in one basket" argument, but that's
why you throw a handheld GPS with extra batteries into the "crash
box".

What you say has a good deal of merit, IMHO. Just to be fair and
balanced, I'll mention the two downsides I've observed. First,
daylight visibility of commonly available and reasonably priced
displays is poor. Second, when the chips are down and the seas are
high, screwing around with a mouse and standard keyboard to setup
waypoints is a bit problematical. I have some thoughts about that, but
I haven't had a chance to experiment. My current approach is to keep
the standalone instruments, using the PC as a repeater. That gives me
the best of both worlds. Please excuse the blatant commercialism in
my standard sig. At least it's on topic...
__________________________________________________ __________
Glen "Wiley" Wilson usenet1 SPAMNIX at worldwidewiley dot com
To reply, lose the capitals and do the obvious.

Take a look at cpRepeater, my NMEA data integrator, repeater, and
logger at http://www.worldwidewiley.com/

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 07:07:43 GMT, "Glen \"Wiley\" Wilson"
wrote:


What you say has a good deal of merit, IMHO.

Well, thanks...it mainly comes out of being forced to think outside of
the box (PC box?) due to the effective 300% premium of the word
"marine"...

Just to be fair and
balanced, I'll mention the two downsides I've observed. First,
daylight visibility of commonly available and reasonably priced
displays is poor.

Which is why I would NOT have the display in the sun, per se, but
mounted on a swiveling armature that is viewed in the relative shade
of the companionway. Fiddling with the text size settings can
conceivably give huge numerals that should be visible for depth
finding, say.

I would concur that if you want to see radar or densely packed charts
in your cockpit, you may need a specialty display. It needn't be
"marine", however, as there may be options from the automotive arena
or the sort of displays used by paramedics in the field and so on. Or
a simple hood with Velcro strips to block extraneous light.


Second, when the chips are down and the seas are
high, screwing around with a mouse and standard keyboard to setup
waypoints is a bit problematical.

Yes, it is. But if you require, say, a switch between a chart plotting
display linked to the GPS providing a current position and a heads up
radar display set to 12 miles, you can click a wireless mouse at the
IR sensor in the display (add on or built in) without leaving the
wheel or tiller. That's actually easier than punching in waypoints
using most Raytheon etc. displays. I am not knocking such devices, but
merely pointing out that they command a high and perhaps unnecessary
premium (for most sailors) considering what they do and how they
display information....part of the reason many people don't want
bigger displays is, I suspect, that they don't want that windage on
the cabintop, and/or to cut that big a hole in the bulkhead, or to
clutter up the binnacle. The largish, fold away display which uses a
PC to link the various incoming depth sounder/radar/GPS signals seems
to me to be a workable compromise.


I have some thoughts about that, but
I haven't had a chance to experiment. My current approach is to keep
the standalone instruments, using the PC as a repeater. That gives me
the best of both worlds. Please excuse the blatant commercialism in
my standard sig. At least it's on topic...

Actually, it's handy to consider, as there are a few "getting all the
kids not to argue" issues with integrating all these gadgets on a PC.

The repeater idea is good, too, because you can bury the PC box
someplace safe and dry and run USB to displays and keyboards, etc. you
can pack away when not in use in the nav station drawers.

R.

Something else to consider is this: a 15 inch LCD display is well
under $500 these days and can also display chartplotter info, GPS,
radar and whatnot when hooked into the appropriate "black boxes"

Exactly. And that was the impetus for my question....
i.e. whether a single "box" or PC can be used for
multiple functions on a sail boat or any boat

Again.... I know NOTHING abt boats.... but just curios

And i really "prefer" desktop PCs cause they are more
flexible than laptop PCs in that one can open the
desktop up and work on them, adding things, etc.


Of course, there's the "all eggs in one basket" argument, but that's
why you throw a handheld GPS with extra batteries into the "crash
box".

Good point!

Or maybe just have a backup box on hand at all times

You might look into Mini-ITX. Its the size and power consumption of a laptop,
but with pci slots and replaceable disk drives, etc. Of course, not that much
bang for the buck, compared to off the shelf stuff.



wrote in message
...
Something else to consider is this: a 15 inch LCD display is well
under $500 these days and can also display chartplotter info, GPS,
radar and whatnot when hooked into the appropriate "black boxes"

Exactly. And that was the impetus for my question....
i.e. whether a single "box" or PC can be used for
multiple functions on a sail boat or any boat

Again.... I know NOTHING abt boats.... but just curios

And i really "prefer" desktop PCs cause they are more
flexible than laptop PCs in that one can open the
desktop up and work on them, adding things, etc.


Of course, there's the "all eggs in one basket" argument, but that's
why you throw a handheld GPS with extra batteries into the "crash
box".

Good point!

Or maybe just have a backup box on hand at all times

You might look into Mini-ITX. Its the size and power consumption of a laptop,
but with pci slots and replaceable disk drives, etc. Of course, not that much
bang for the buck, compared to off the shelf stuff.

Do you mean small form factor computers like this
Shuttle?

Like one in link?

http://us.shuttle.com/SB81P.asp

If yes..... this is the model I was wondering COULD be
used for boating applications.

I think they are similar, but the mini-ITX is made by VIA. The motherboard is
very complete. I put together an ME-6000 system with a DVD player and a TV
card. Its powered off a "brick" although you could probably use boat DC power
if you weren't afraid of regulation issues. (I would simply use a small
inverter.)

I've been a bit disappointed - the case had a noisy fan and trying to slow the
fan allows the cpu to overheat. And some of the advertised features simply
don't work because VIA doesn't always supply promised drivers. But it is cute,
and low enough power to leave it on all the time. And like a desktop machine, I
can take it apart and swap out components.

http://www.mini-itx.com/store/



wrote in message
...
You might look into Mini-ITX. Its the size and power consumption of a
laptop,
but with pci slots and replaceable disk drives, etc. Of course, not that
much
bang for the buck, compared to off the shelf stuff.

Do you mean small form factor computers like this
Shuttle?

Like one in link?

http://us.shuttle.com/SB81P.asp

If yes..... this is the model I was wondering COULD be
used for boating applications.

And like a desktop machine, I
can take it apart and swap out components.

Exactly!

That was reason for my original post abt even using
desktops for marine/boat use

These guys offer the Shuttle case with a 12v power supply and they
coat the boards as well to give them some protection.
http://www.marinercomputers.co.uk/

Mark