On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 12:01:46 -0400, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

Shake and Break Part 11 - June 2, 2015

Well, we left you in a state of suspense over the potentially severe
weather, torrential rains, and other unknowns. The "break" part here is
still the surgeries for broken bones entailing our return to the US, as
nothing broke aboard Flying Pig in these few days.

As I write this, our schedule is still flexible, but we've not gotten
anywhere near the Gulf Stream, one of the potential terrors after our last.

However, both the wind and rain turned out to be much less than originally
forecast, due to the disintegration of the low expected to provide all the
excitement.

The wind was moderate, and so was the rain. However, there were a few heavy
periods over the 6 hours or so (compared to the 24 forecasted hours) it came
down. I got out the deck brush to do final touchups; Lydia had already
cleaned before, particularly in the anchor chain area up front; it stains
due to the chain's galvanizing starting to go on the section we use all the
time. Likely sometime soon, we'll end-for-end it to give the currently
untouched end a chance at some work.

In the Bahamas, we are usually anchored in 8-15' of water. However, our bow
is 5' over the water, so when we calculate how much chain to put out, we
have to go from there. As our comfort level in general is at 7-1 scope (7
times the distance from the bottom to the bow roller), it means that the
100-150' section gets all the work.

We replaced this 300' chain in our refit, so when we turn it around, that
end will be new. But I digress...


End for ending an anchor chain is common practice and in many
countries/places a chain can be re-galvanized rather than replacing if
not worn excessively.

--
Cheers,

Bruce

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in message
...




End for ending an anchor chain is common practice and in many
countries/places a chain can be re-galvanized rather than replacing if
not worn excessively.

--
Cheers,

Bruce


We looked at that the last time in the yard, and the cost of getting it to
someplace which could do it - and the application, of course, was close to
new chain.

As there are issues about coverage, and sticking together, perhaps, at any
of the places I discovered relative to Vero Beach FL, I elected to go with
new chain, and got $200 for the best 140' of the old, mitigating the cost of
new.

I wish it weren't so, but perhaps by the time we get to shore again, things
will have changed.

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
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fit to live on land.
- Dr. Samuel Johnson

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:38:03 -0400, "Flying Pig" wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in message
.. .


End for ending an anchor chain is common practice and in many
countries/places a chain can be re-galvanized rather than replacing if
not worn excessively.


Nylon rode is superior in every way. Lose the chain.

--
Sir Gregory

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 13:55:01 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:38:03 -0400, "Flying Pig" wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in message
. ..


End for ending an anchor chain is common practice and in many
countries/places a chain can be re-galvanized rather than replacing if
not worn excessively.


Nylon rode is superior in every way. Lose the chain.

===

Maybe for a small boat anchored in a smooth bottom and calm
conditions. Elsewhere, not so much. Chain is nearly universal these
days on 40+ boats doing serious cruising in varied conditions. There
are lots of good reason for that: Chafe resistance. UV resistance.
Resistance to cyclical loading failure. Chain catenary reduces swing
radius in calm conditions. Resistant to accidental cutting by passing
props. Long term durability.

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 13:55:01 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:38:03 -0400, "Flying Pig" wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote in message
. ..


End for ending an anchor chain is common practice and in many
countries/places a chain can be re-galvanized rather than replacing if
not worn excessively.


Nylon rode is superior in every way. Lose the chain.

And thus speaks a man who is in total ignorance of what he says.

You might want to read up on just how an anchoring system functions.
For example, how much does the "catenary effect", for want of a better
word, effect anchoring system effectiveness. Or perhaps the effect of
underwater conditions on anchoring components, for ocean floor
consisting of Mud, Grass or Seaweed, rocks or coral growth.

And before you fly off on a tangent it might be well to state that
chain anchor rode has been considered a safety factor since at least
the 1700's and that considerable investigation has gone into
determining its effectiveness. For example I find research such as:

2012 - Engineering Thesis from MIT entitled "Simulation of the
catenary effect under wind disturbances in anchoring of small boats".
Have you read that?

Or, From an Australian maritime regulation, "Where a rope and chain
anchor line is used, it is recommended that the length of chain be at
least equivalent to the length of the vessel."

Or, From the U.K.:
"The Merchant Shipping (Cargo Ship Construction) Regulations 1997 and
The Merchant Shipping (Passenger Ship Construction) Regulations 1998
provide that: (1) every ship must be provided with anchor handling
equipment together with such anchors and chain cables as are
sufficient in number, weight and strength having regard to the size of
the ship; and (2) this equipment must be tested and certified by the
Certifying Authority."

And your authority is what? Your imagination?

Or perhaps "investigation" from a company such as Rocna, which is so
obvious in their frantic attempt to justify their product as to be
almost a joke?

Rather than the false address of "greghall@yacht_master" one suspects
that it be far more accurate descriptive to write,
"biggestFool@the_dummy_convention".
--
Cheers,

Bruce

On 8/17/2015 11:55 AM, Sir Gregory Hall, Esq. wrote:
On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:38:03 -0400, "Flying Pig" wrote:


Nylon rode is superior in every way. Lose the chain.


The catenary of the chain rode acts the same as the shock cushioning of
the nylon but in rocky or worse, coral / oyster areas, the chain is
abrasion resistant where the nylon isn't. If you aren't happy relying on
the catenary, then get a snubber.

IMO, Skippy's 7:1 all chain rode is over the top but if he has the room,
harms nothing.

-paul

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On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 07:18:01 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote:

On 8/17/2015 11:55 AM, Sir Gregory Hall, Esq. wrote:
On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:38:03 -0400, "Flying Pig" wrote:


Nylon rode is superior in every way. Lose the chain.


The catenary of the chain rode acts the same as the shock cushioning of
the nylon but in rocky or worse, coral / oyster areas, the chain is
abrasion resistant where the nylon isn't. If you aren't happy relying on
the catenary, then get a snubber.


More than shock absorbing the catenary actually decreases the angle
above horizontal that force is applied to the anchor stock and thus
effectively increasing the holding power of the anchor.

IMO, Skippy's 7:1 all chain rode is over the top but if he has the room,
harms nothing.

-paul

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--
Cheers,

Bruce

On Wed, 19 Aug 2015 08:36:14 +0700, wrote:

On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 07:18:01 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote:

On 8/17/2015 11:55 AM, Sir Gregory Hall, Esq. wrote:
On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:38:03 -0400, "Flying Pig" wrote:


Nylon rode is superior in every way. Lose the chain.


The catenary of the chain rode acts the same as the shock cushioning of
the nylon but in rocky or worse, coral / oyster areas, the chain is
abrasion resistant where the nylon isn't. If you aren't happy relying on
the catenary, then get a snubber.


More than shock absorbing the catenary actually decreases the angle
above horizontal that force is applied to the anchor stock and thus
effectively increasing the holding power of the anchor.


When it comes to basic concepts of physics you folks are
demonstrably woefully ignorant.

Your claim of a more *horizontal* pull on the anchor stock
is unsubstantiated and erroneous. Force on the stock is
comprised of vectors and not a single, one-way, one-time
force as you seem to be suggesting.

What tends to break out an anchor is more due to shock
forces rather than some variation in vertical forces.
Those shock forces are greater when using chain as chain
does not have the ability to stretch and mitigate those
shock forces. The cantenary argument is bogus as there
will come a time when there is enough wind and wave
action to pull the cantenary into straight line forces
which forces are unmitigated. Nylon rode transmits far
less force to the anchor as the stretch itself absorbs
those forces.

Get a clue already, people.

--
Sir Gregory

On Wed, 19 Aug 2015 09:18:33 -0400, "Sir Gregory Hall, Esq."
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Aug 2015 08:36:14 +0700, wrote:

On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 07:18:01 -0600, Paul Cassel
wrote:

On 8/17/2015 11:55 AM, Sir Gregory Hall, Esq. wrote:
On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 12:38:03 -0400, "Flying Pig" wrote:


Nylon rode is superior in every way. Lose the chain.


The catenary of the chain rode acts the same as the shock cushioning of
the nylon but in rocky or worse, coral / oyster areas, the chain is
abrasion resistant where the nylon isn't. If you aren't happy relying on
the catenary, then get a snubber.


More than shock absorbing the catenary actually decreases the angle
above horizontal that force is applied to the anchor stock and thus
effectively increasing the holding power of the anchor.


When it comes to basic concepts of physics you folks are
demonstrably woefully ignorant.

Your claim of a more *horizontal* pull on the anchor stock
is unsubstantiated and erroneous. Force on the stock is
comprised of vectors and not a single, one-way, one-time
force as you seem to be suggesting.

What tends to break out an anchor is more due to shock
forces rather than some variation in vertical forces.
Those shock forces are greater when using chain as chain
does not have the ability to stretch and mitigate those
shock forces. The cantenary argument is bogus as there
will come a time when there is enough wind and wave
action to pull the cantenary into straight line forces
which forces are unmitigated. Nylon rode transmits far
less force to the anchor as the stretch itself absorbs
those forces.

Get a clue already, people.

My response would be "prove it!"

You see, there innumerable anchor tests, by reputable testing bodies,
that prove, yet again, that you simply do not know what you are
talking about.

Example: From BoatUS

"Chain, used alone or in combination with nylon line, offers great
benefits: It decreases the angle of pull on the anchor allowing it to
set and hold more effectively, it's unaffected by chafe from rocks or
sharp surfaces on the bottom, it helps to keep the boat from sailing
about in winds, its weight forms a curve that, because of the catenary
effect, helps to absorb shock loads in heavy weather, and, in the case
of all-chain rode, it may require less scope for the same holding
power as rope"

Example: From Boating

"Regardless of boat style, all anchoring systems should have a boat
length of stainless-steel or galvanized chain separating the rope and
the anchor. The chain prevents chafing and abrasion. Its weight also
keeps the anchor shank horizontal, allowing the flukes to better bite
the bottom."


Example: From Peter Smith, "Catenary & Scope In Anchor Rode: Anchor
Systems For Small Boats"

"This catenary has the convenient effect of lowering the effective
angle of pull on the anchor, which is the positive result we are
striving for. Clearly, the heavier the rode, the better this effect,
and the greater the pull will need to be to negate it (i.e. to pull
the rode straight). Hence, the lore is to use heavy chain behind the
anchor.

This way of doing things has been reinforced over thousands of years,
mostly with relatively large vessels, and has built a strong
tradition. "

Example: U.S. Navy

"Washington DC Technical Note No. CEL N-1581 July 1980) it was found
that the chain rode could produce up to two-thirds of the total
holding power of the Anchor System. "


Your problem seems to be that you either glory in your ability to
provide ridicules information as fact, or that you somehow feel that
if you say it, than it simply must be the truth. Either assertion is
false.

It might be noted that all of the above data is available free, if you
just look. You don't have to be a dumb ass.
--
Cheers,

Bruce

On 8/17/2015 10:38 AM, Flying Pig wrote:


We looked at that the last time in the yard, and the cost of getting it
to someplace which could do it - and the application, of course, was
close to new chain.

As there are issues about coverage, and sticking together, perhaps, at
any of the places I discovered relative to Vero Beach FL, I elected to
go with new chain, and got $200 for the best 140' of the old, mitigating
the cost of new.

I wish it weren't so, but perhaps by the time we get to shore again,
things will have changed.


Where did you find a taker for your old chain - Sailorman at Lauderdale?


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