"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...
"Waldo" wrote in message
b.com...
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...
Can't really figure out the reason for that 90 degree sharp turn. Duh!
Somebody tell Skippy that he'll arrive more quickly if he angles over to
the inlet. Pretty dumb traveling two legs of a triangle when one leg
will do the job faster and better.


Wilbur Hubbard


Duh! It's called tacking or maybe adjusting your course to accommodate
sea conditions. Easy for you to judge other's seamanship with your keel
firmly planted in the sand for months or years at a time. Eh Captain
Neal. And lest not forget you cannot go out of the transmitter range of
your ankle bracelet.



You know nothing about sailing.

The wind was from the east. It follows, then, that Skippy was reaching
while headed north.

There is a northerly set to the current in the Gulf Stream which would
tend to skew the east wind-driven seas somewhat so they have a slant
towards the south west.

If Skippy had angled towards the inlet instead of squaring it off like a
newbie rube, the Flying Pig would have experienced nice broad-reaching
winds and the fastest point of sail. The seas would have been somewhat on
the starboard quarter - also not an uncomfortable direction under a press
of sail which keeps rolling to a minimum.

Now, run along, you bother me . . . Come back when you become informed.


Wilbur Hubbard


You're wasting your time trying to impress me with your knowledge of the
fine art of sailing.

"Waldo" wrote in message
eb.com...
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...
"Waldo" wrote in message
b.com...
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...
Can't really figure out the reason for that 90 degree sharp turn. Duh!
Somebody tell Skippy that he'll arrive more quickly if he angles over
to the inlet. Pretty dumb traveling two legs of a triangle when one leg
will do the job faster and better.


Wilbur Hubbard


Duh! It's called tacking or maybe adjusting your course to accommodate
sea conditions. Easy for you to judge other's seamanship with your keel
firmly planted in the sand for months or years at a time. Eh Captain
Neal. And lest not forget you cannot go out of the transmitter range of
your ankle bracelet.



You know nothing about sailing.

The wind was from the east. It follows, then, that Skippy was reaching
while headed north.

There is a northerly set to the current in the Gulf Stream which would
tend to skew the east wind-driven seas somewhat so they have a slant
towards the south west.

If Skippy had angled towards the inlet instead of squaring it off like a
newbie rube, the Flying Pig would have experienced nice broad-reaching
winds and the fastest point of sail. The seas would have been somewhat on
the starboard quarter - also not an uncomfortable direction under a press
of sail which keeps rolling to a minimum.

Now, run along, you bother me . . . Come back when you become informed.



You're wasting your time trying to impress me with your knowledge of the
fine art of sailing.


That's OK. I'm just biding my time, anyway, until my true love, Jessica B,
returns.


Wilbur Hubbard

On Mon, 7 Mar 2011 11:50:06 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Waldo" wrote in message
eb.com...
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...
Can't really figure out the reason for that 90 degree sharp turn. Duh!
Somebody tell Skippy that he'll arrive more quickly if he angles over to
the inlet. Pretty dumb traveling two legs of a triangle when one leg will
do the job faster and better.


Wilbur Hubbard


Duh! It's called tacking or maybe adjusting your course to accommodate sea
conditions. Easy for you to judge other's seamanship with your keel firmly
planted in the sand for months or years at a time. Eh Captain Neal. And
lest not forget you cannot go out of the transmitter range of your ankle
bracelet.



You know nothing about sailing.

The wind was from the east. It follows, then, that Skippy was reaching while
headed north.

There is a northerly set to the current in the Gulf Stream which would tend
to skew the east wind-driven seas somewhat so they have a slant towards the
south west.

If Skippy had angled towards the inlet instead of squaring it off like a
newbie rube, the Flying Pig would have experienced nice broad-reaching winds
and the fastest point of sail. The seas would have been somewhat on the
starboard quarter - also not an uncomfortable direction under a press of
sail which keeps rolling to a minimum.

Now, run along, you bother me . . . Come back when you become informed.


Wilbur Hubbard


A nice concise description.... But how would you know?

Oh, yes, I remember, you read it in a book.

Cheers,

Bruce

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...

You know nothing about sailing.

The wind was from the east. It follows, then, that Skippy was reaching
while headed north.

There is a northerly set to the current in the Gulf Stream which would
tend to skew the east wind-driven seas somewhat so they have a slant
towards the south west.

If Skippy had angled towards the inlet instead of squaring it off like a
newbie rube, the Flying Pig would have experienced nice broad-reaching
winds and the fastest point of sail. The seas would have been somewhat on
the starboard quarter - also not an uncomfortable direction under a press
of sail which keeps rolling to a minimum.

Now, run along, you bother me . . . Come back when you become informed.


Wilbur Hubbard


Heh...

First, you're ALMOST right. The wind was from ~080-100T. You totally
neglected that forward motion doesn't move the apparent wind aft, it moves
it forward. When you're doing 10 knots in still air, you get 10 knots of
wind on your nose, e.g. When there's 20 or so coming from the side, that
makes for 25 or so from forward of the true wind at 10+ knots of boat speed.
That's why, if you look at our track we were slightly west of north COG, in
order to minimize the forward angle of the apparent wind

Second, you're also ALMOST right. The stream (or, maybe, and/or tide, as
the NOAA folks said the west wall was 19 miles offshore, more than we were
at the time) motion at the time made it necessary for me to turn south in
order to keep the COG due west, as it wanted to push the boat north. So,
while the boat's moving north in a dead downwind COG mode, it creates the
effect of bringing the wind forward from the stern, and thus my apparent
wind at 120-150 port...

L8R

Skip and crew, enjoying the loudspeaker antics of the USCG training station
in Ft. Pierce

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.

In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.

Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

On Sun, 6 Mar 2011 15:15:39 -0500, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

You could say the same thing about our orientation south of Andros - instead
of going up to Orange Cay, we went direct to the Gulf Stream

I have looked at that route south of Andros a number of times as a
possible shortcut between the FL Keys and the Turks and Caicos. How
were the sea conditions going over the banks down there, and did you
notice any current?

On Mon, 7 Mar 2011 20:18:56 -0500, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
tanews.com...

You know nothing about sailing.

The wind was from the east. It follows, then, that Skippy was reaching
while headed north.

There is a northerly set to the current in the Gulf Stream which would
tend to skew the east wind-driven seas somewhat so they have a slant
towards the south west.

If Skippy had angled towards the inlet instead of squaring it off like a
newbie rube, the Flying Pig would have experienced nice broad-reaching
winds and the fastest point of sail. The seas would have been somewhat on
the starboard quarter - also not an uncomfortable direction under a press
of sail which keeps rolling to a minimum.

Now, run along, you bother me . . . Come back when you become informed.


Wilbur Hubbard


Heh...

First, you're ALMOST right. The wind was from ~080-100T. You totally
neglected that forward motion doesn't move the apparent wind aft, it moves
it forward. When you're doing 10 knots in still air, you get 10 knots of
wind on your nose, e.g. When there's 20 or so coming from the side, that
makes for 25 or so from forward of the true wind at 10+ knots of boat speed.
That's why, if you look at our track we were slightly west of north COG, in
order to minimize the forward angle of the apparent wind

Second, you're also ALMOST right. The stream (or, maybe, and/or tide, as
the NOAA folks said the west wall was 19 miles offshore, more than we were
at the time) motion at the time made it necessary for me to turn south in
order to keep the COG due west, as it wanted to push the boat north. So,
while the boat's moving north in a dead downwind COG mode, it creates the
effect of bringing the wind forward from the stern, and thus my apparent
wind at 120-150 port...

L8R

Skip and crew, enjoying the loudspeaker antics of the USCG training station
in Ft. Pierce


And once again the Wily Wilbur is proved wrong... "-)

I've told that boy over and over, "don't open your mouth and let all
that stupidness leak out. Just keep your mouth shut and you'll fool
all them folks into thinking that you are as smart as they are."

Cheers,

Bruce

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 Mar 2011 15:15:39 -0500, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

You could say the same thing about our orientation south of Andros -
instead
of going up to Orange Cay, we went direct to the Gulf Stream

I have looked at that route south of Andros a number of times as a
possible shortcut between the FL Keys and the Turks and Caicos. How
were the sea conditions going over the banks down there, and did you
notice any current?


Hi, Wayne,

Yes, there is about a 1-knot current in our favor, exactly on the route we
took (well, the NW part - the due west part had none), as shown on P8 of the
Explorer chart of the area. Seas were similar to the gulf stream, which is
to say, in that area, about 5-7. Recall that the wind had been blowing for
days, however, and also that they were beamish, so we weren't bashing.

If you're going from the Keys, and off to T&C, which is more southerly than
where we started (unless you wanted to stop in the Raggeds, a great idea,
however, I'd not go that far up, but instead go straight over Cuba. I did a
routing for a friend who went to the DR from St. Pete; it went under all
that, if I recall correctly. I MAY be able to find it in my old sent files,
and if so, I'll put it up for you. It worked great for him...

Hmmm... Thinking about it, I'm not sure any more about that - maybe it WAS
along the route we took. In any case, the banks, aside from the choke
between the Cochinas and Middle Ground, wsa a no-brainer. If you were going
to bypass the Raggeds, you could get under the Cochinas, and probably or
perhaps also miss Cay Sal...

I'm hopeful to get out the passage log sometime really soon, because once we
hit the yard, I'll be banished from the computer :{/)

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.

In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.

Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

"Bruce" wrote in message
...
snip


A nice concise description.... But how would you know?

Oh, yes, I remember, you read it in a book.

Cheers,

Bruce



I've sailed in the Gulf Stream many more times than you have. I know of
which I type. One must sail there in order to understand the conditions
there.

Wilbur Hubbard

"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...

You know nothing about sailing.

The wind was from the east. It follows, then, that Skippy was reaching
while headed north.

There is a northerly set to the current in the Gulf Stream which would
tend to skew the east wind-driven seas somewhat so they have a slant
towards the south west.

If Skippy had angled towards the inlet instead of squaring it off like a
newbie rube, the Flying Pig would have experienced nice broad-reaching
winds and the fastest point of sail. The seas would have been somewhat on
the starboard quarter - also not an uncomfortable direction under a press
of sail which keeps rolling to a minimum.

Now, run along, you bother me . . . Come back when you become informed.


Wilbur Hubbard


Heh...

First, you're ALMOST right. The wind was from ~080-100T.

Well, if that isn't a wind from the east then I'm the boogey man.

You totally neglected that forward motion doesn't move the apparent wind
aft, it moves it forward.

If you have a 20 knot wind out of the east and you are proceeding north and
you are making ten knots towards the north then you will have an apparent
wind of 45 degrees. I said nothing about the apparent wind going aft. I did
say you were on a reach. 45 degrees is defined as a 'close reach' the last
time I looked.

When you're doing 10 knots in still air, you get 10 knots of wind on your
nose, e.g. When there's 20 or so coming from the side, that makes for 25
or so from forward of the true wind at 10+ knots of boat speed. That's
why, if you look at our track we were slightly west of north COG, in order
to minimize the forward angle of the apparent wind

I explained it above more competently and less lubberly than you just did.
The course I saw from a little south of Biscayne Bay on up towards Ft.
Lauderdale appeared to me to be due north.

Second, you're also ALMOST right. The stream (or, maybe, and/or tide, as
the NOAA folks said the west wall was 19 miles offshore, more than we were
at the time)

Wrong! I can measure miles off on the Google map displayed and you were
right in the Stream. You had a northerly set of at least 3 knots and you
don't get that unless you are experiencing the Gulf Stream current. Those
'wall' predictions are often wildly inaccurate. The wall is not a static
entity - it shifts to and frow quite quickly at times and it develops eddies
and loops.

motion at the time made it necessary for me to turn south in order to keep
the COG due west,


Well, duh! As I said you were experiencing about a three-knot northly set
because of the Gulf Stream current. Of course you would have to fudge some
southerly direction in there in order make progress due west. That's all the
more of a display of stupidity to make a 90 degree turn when you should have
angled over to the inlet and saved yourself time, distance and embarrassment
from those of who know how to plot a course when a current is involved.

as it wanted to push the boat north. So, while the boat's moving north in
a dead downwind COG mode, it creates the effect of bringing the wind
forward from the stern, and thus my apparent wind at 120-150 port...

Wrong. When you are going due west in a wind from the east you will
experience an apparent wind directly from astern. If you have to crab
somewhat south to offset the northerly set then the apparent wind will be
off the port quarter, just like I said.



Gott im Himmel! I wasn't even out there and I know what was happening better
than you do. You should be ashamed of yourself, d00d!


Wilbur Hubbard

"Bruce" wrote in message
...
snip


And once again the Wily Wilbur is proved wrong... "-)


No comments from the Peanut Gallery, please. . .


Wilbur Hubbard