On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:33:15 -0800, Jessica B
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:02:08 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 14:48:12 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Jessica B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 10:26:08 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
snippage

Reasonable? LOL! Girl, you've got a lot to learn . . .

I meant that you seemed pretty reasonable!!

So, tell me something I don't already know. lol

Jessica, Joe is one of those lubberly, wannabe-type sailors about whom I
refer when saying some are fearful to really sail so they attempt to load
up
a boat with "all the lubberly contraptions" like washer/dryer combos so
they
can feel comfortable because they are addicted to the land and the sailing
life is anathema to them.

Joe's erstwhile boat, "Red Cloud" was prematurely abandoned in a cold
front
in the Gulf of Mexico and he and his rank amateur crew were airlifted off
by
the Coast Guard and his boat was abandoned to her own devices and
eventually
sunk. Joe is a little chicken, IMO. Certainly is no sailor. If his skills
were 1/10th as big as his mouth he might amount to something. As it stands
now he's a disgrace. Why, the moron doesn't even know the proper sized
American flag to fly and he flies it in the wrong place. Nothing screams
incompetence like disrespect for one's flag.

Bummer that he lost his boat... Did they make him pay for his airlift?
Seems like things would be a lot better if people paid for their
mistakes... or at least had to make some kind of partial payment. It
might cut down on the nonsense.

Right you are. People are way to quick to pull the epirb switch because
there is no charge for a rescue operation. No charge for the rescued, at
least. Just another taxpayer-funded operation. It used to be sailors had
pride and would not abandon a boat until they had to step up into the life
raft from it. Nowadays people sprain an ankle or get a little seasick and
they call the Coast Guard. It's deplorable and unseamanlike.


What utter bumph. I personally know two people rescued from a barge
that broke lose during a "tropical depression" and another rescued
from a oil rig that was in the process of tipping over and they were
damned happy to be saved., regardless of whether they had to step up
or down. The two on the barge leaped across to the bow of the rescuing
tug and the oil rig people jumped overboard and most were retrieved
over the stern of a service boat.

I can assure you that none of them were endeavoring to measure the
relative height of the rescue craft and wait until they had to step
"up"



snipped

Wilbur Hubbard

Cheers,

Bruce

Well, seems like a true accident.. getting run over. ok, but I bet
that isn't the case most of the time. But, what do I know...


I don't know. I have seen, been involved in, or have had reliable
information of problems ranging from a bloke who was motoring blithely
along and put the engine in neutral and heard a deluge of water coming
in somewhere. Looked in the bilges and his prop shaft had come out. to
a mate that hit a rock in the middle of the night. plus various
commercial disasters like the barges sinking I mentioned and another
bloke who jumped off a tipping oil rig.

When the guy with the missing prop shaft told me the story I said,
all agape, my GOD what did you do? Expecting a tail of a sunken boat
or a beaching. He replied, "stuffed a tee shirt in the hole and sailed
home".

Another chap (never heard any identification) who was calling,
"Mayday, my propeller is missing". Heard a number of people trying to
contact him in reply but he never replied. Kept listening to the news
but never heard of any missing boat. Maybe he was telling a tall tail.

I was in direct path of the Thailand Tsunami wave and weathered that
but at the same time was listening to calls stating that everyone must
head for deep water as there would be an after shock and apparently
people were just going crazy. How anyone expected to get very far off
shore in the few minutes that the people were saying the after shock
would come? What you gonna do? .

Someone answered one of my calls for information stating that there
was no reason to bypass Phi Phi harbor and no problem to anchor there.
I later discovered that the wave washed directly into the harbor, over
that section of the island and there was nothing there any more.

I had a mate hit a rock under all sail with a 60 ft. ketch. Middle of
the night and they were making a lot more leeway they had thought and
no one was watching. Holed the boat and he did say that "it got a bit
frantic until we got enough cushions stuffed in the hole".

That was yet another example of how idiotic Willie-boy can be. The
hole in the boat bloke used his generator to power a 220 VAC sump
pump pumping through a 3 or 4 inch hose to keep the boat afloat until
he could fother a sail over the damage and stuff the hole with
cushions. He was able to sail to an island where he could have beached
the boat if things got worse and waited until the next high tide. then
careened the boat and fiberglassed a patch over the hole which held
until he got where he was going where he could haul the boat and make
a permanent repair.

So I reckon that every is entitled to get a bit excited when it all
turns belly up and is entitled to react in any manner that he feels
appropriate and to sit at home and second guess things based on a
picture on a TV screen is just a display of ignorance.

Cheers,

Bruce

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:07:49 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:33:15 -0800, Jessica B
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:02:08 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 14:48:12 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Jessica B" wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 10:26:08 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
snippage

Reasonable? LOL! Girl, you've got a lot to learn . . .

I meant that you seemed pretty reasonable!!

So, tell me something I don't already know. lol

Jessica, Joe is one of those lubberly, wannabe-type sailors about whom I
refer when saying some are fearful to really sail so they attempt to load
up
a boat with "all the lubberly contraptions" like washer/dryer combos so
they
can feel comfortable because they are addicted to the land and the sailing
life is anathema to them.

Joe's erstwhile boat, "Red Cloud" was prematurely abandoned in a cold
front
in the Gulf of Mexico and he and his rank amateur crew were airlifted off
by
the Coast Guard and his boat was abandoned to her own devices and
eventually
sunk. Joe is a little chicken, IMO. Certainly is no sailor. If his skills
were 1/10th as big as his mouth he might amount to something. As it stands
now he's a disgrace. Why, the moron doesn't even know the proper sized
American flag to fly and he flies it in the wrong place. Nothing screams
incompetence like disrespect for one's flag.

Bummer that he lost his boat... Did they make him pay for his airlift?
Seems like things would be a lot better if people paid for their
mistakes... or at least had to make some kind of partial payment. It
might cut down on the nonsense.

Right you are. People are way to quick to pull the epirb switch because
there is no charge for a rescue operation. No charge for the rescued, at
least. Just another taxpayer-funded operation. It used to be sailors had
pride and would not abandon a boat until they had to step up into the life
raft from it. Nowadays people sprain an ankle or get a little seasick and
they call the Coast Guard. It's deplorable and unseamanlike.


What utter bumph. I personally know two people rescued from a barge
that broke lose during a "tropical depression" and another rescued
from a oil rig that was in the process of tipping over and they were
damned happy to be saved., regardless of whether they had to step up
or down. The two on the barge leaped across to the bow of the rescuing
tug and the oil rig people jumped overboard and most were retrieved
over the stern of a service boat.

I can assure you that none of them were endeavoring to measure the
relative height of the rescue craft and wait until they had to step
"up"



snipped

Wilbur Hubbard

Cheers,

Bruce

Well, seems like a true accident.. getting run over. ok, but I bet
that isn't the case most of the time. But, what do I know...


I don't know. I have seen, been involved in, or have had reliable
information of problems ranging from a bloke who was motoring blithely
along and put the engine in neutral and heard a deluge of water coming
in somewhere. Looked in the bilges and his prop shaft had come out. to
a mate that hit a rock in the middle of the night. plus various
commercial disasters like the barges sinking I mentioned and another
bloke who jumped off a tipping oil rig.

When the guy with the missing prop shaft told me the story I said,
all agape, my GOD what did you do? Expecting a tail of a sunken boat
or a beaching. He replied, "stuffed a tee shirt in the hole and sailed
home".

Another chap (never heard any identification) who was calling,
"Mayday, my propeller is missing". Heard a number of people trying to
contact him in reply but he never replied. Kept listening to the news
but never heard of any missing boat. Maybe he was telling a tall tail.

I was in direct path of the Thailand Tsunami wave and weathered that
but at the same time was listening to calls stating that everyone must
head for deep water as there would be an after shock and apparently
people were just going crazy. How anyone expected to get very far off
shore in the few minutes that the people were saying the after shock
would come? What you gonna do? .

Someone answered one of my calls for information stating that there
was no reason to bypass Phi Phi harbor and no problem to anchor there.
I later discovered that the wave washed directly into the harbor, over
that section of the island and there was nothing there any more.

I had a mate hit a rock under all sail with a 60 ft. ketch. Middle of
the night and they were making a lot more leeway they had thought and
no one was watching. Holed the boat and he did say that "it got a bit
frantic until we got enough cushions stuffed in the hole".

That was yet another example of how idiotic Willie-boy can be. The
hole in the boat bloke used his generator to power a 220 VAC sump
pump pumping through a 3 or 4 inch hose to keep the boat afloat until
he could fother a sail over the damage and stuff the hole with
cushions. He was able to sail to an island where he could have beached
the boat if things got worse and waited until the next high tide. then
careened the boat and fiberglassed a patch over the hole which held
until he got where he was going where he could haul the boat and make
a permanent repair.

So I reckon that every is entitled to get a bit excited when it all
turns belly up and is entitled to react in any manner that he feels
appropriate and to sit at home and second guess things based on a
picture on a TV screen is just a display of ignorance.

Cheers,

Bruce

Sorry, but I didn't understand even 1/2 of this. Maybe one should not
go sailing if you can't deal with the issues that come up, short of
being run over by a tanker or something?

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:45:51 -0800, Jessica B
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:07:49 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:33:15 -0800, Jessica B
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:02:08 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

much snipped

Sorry, but I didn't understand even 1/2 of this. Maybe one should not
go sailing if you can't deal with the issues that come up, short of
being run over by a tanker or something?

Sounds pretty simple. Can you deal with a tsunami arrives with no
warning and kills some 5,000 people in your immediate area? A 60 MPH
squall that hits you at night?

It is what might be called a feat in simplification to say "Maybe one
should not go sailing if you can't deal with the issues that come up,
short of being run over by a tanker or something?" Actually being run
over by a tanker is probably the least likely thing to happen.

Cheers,

Bruce

"Bruce" wrote in message
...
snip


It is what might be called a feat in simplification to say "Maybe one
should not go sailing if you can't deal with the issues that come up,
short of being run over by a tanker or something?" Actually being run
over by a tanker is probably the least likely thing to happen.


In your case, definitely. I'm sure the water around your dock is way too
shallow for a tanker to approach within a mile. LOL!


Wilbur Hubbard

On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 19:32:07 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:45:51 -0800, Jessica B
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:07:49 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:33:15 -0800, Jessica B
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:02:08 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

much snipped

Sorry, but I didn't understand even 1/2 of this. Maybe one should not
go sailing if you can't deal with the issues that come up, short of
being run over by a tanker or something?

Sounds pretty simple. Can you deal with a tsunami arrives with no
warning and kills some 5,000 people in your immediate area? A 60 MPH
squall that hits you at night?

Of course not. A couple of things occur to me. First, I thought a
tsunami was only dangerous near land. If that's the case, then how
could it do damage to a boat that's sailing offshore? Second, it seems
like you should be able to handle high winds. Wouldn't you be prepared
for that? Why are you sleeping when there's a storm going on?

It is what might be called a feat in simplification to say "Maybe one
should not go sailing if you can't deal with the issues that come up,
short of being run over by a tanker or something?" Actually being run
over by a tanker is probably the least likely thing to happen.

Ok.

Jessica B wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 19:32:07 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:45:51 -0800, Jessica B
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:07:49 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:33:15 -0800, Jessica B
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:02:08 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

much snipped
Sorry, but I didn't understand even 1/2 of this. Maybe one should not
go sailing if you can't deal with the issues that come up, short of
being run over by a tanker or something?
Sounds pretty simple. Can you deal with a tsunami arrives with no
warning and kills some 5,000 people in your immediate area? A 60 MPH
squall that hits you at night?

Of course not. A couple of things occur to me. First, I thought a
tsunami was only dangerous near land.

The wave front may only be a few inches (or feet) high depending on the
depth of the water where you are.
But they can move at amazingly high speeds. I've even heard near supersonic.
So the amount of energy involved can be equally amazing.
Enough to roll your boat. Or bust off the keel.



If that's the case, then how
could it do damage to a boat that's sailing offshore? Second, it seems
like you should be able to handle high winds. Wouldn't you be prepared
for that? Why are you sleeping when there's a storm going on?


Believe it or not, sailing can be very tiring.
After a while the body is depleted and you just shut down.

Most of the boats abonded while racing are later found floating - intact.
They were abandoned because the crew was exhausted to the point of having
no other choice.

The crew is almost ALWAYS the limiting factor.

--

Richard Lamb
email me:
web site: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb

On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 21:25:34 -0600, CaveLamb
wrote:

Jessica B wrote:
On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 19:32:07 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:45:51 -0800, Jessica B
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:07:49 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:33:15 -0800, Jessica B
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:02:08 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

much snipped
Sorry, but I didn't understand even 1/2 of this. Maybe one should not
go sailing if you can't deal with the issues that come up, short of
being run over by a tanker or something?
Sounds pretty simple. Can you deal with a tsunami arrives with no
warning and kills some 5,000 people in your immediate area? A 60 MPH
squall that hits you at night?

Of course not. A couple of things occur to me. First, I thought a
tsunami was only dangerous near land.

The wave front may only be a few inches (or feet) high depending on the
depth of the water where you are.
But they can move at amazingly high speeds. I've even heard near supersonic.
So the amount of energy involved can be equally amazing.
Enough to roll your boat. Or bust off the keel.

From what I've read, nobody even knows a tsunami happens in the ocean.




If that's the case, then how
could it do damage to a boat that's sailing offshore? Second, it seems
like you should be able to handle high winds. Wouldn't you be prepared
for that? Why are you sleeping when there's a storm going on?


Believe it or not, sailing can be very tiring.
After a while the body is depleted and you just shut down.

Ok, but wouldn't you have someone to take over while you sleep? If you
get that tired, then maybe you need a shorter trip in better weather!

Most of the boats abonded while racing are later found floating - intact.
They were abandoned because the crew was exhausted to the point of having
no other choice.

No other choice than what? If the boat is still floating, why did the
people leave?

The crew is almost ALWAYS the limiting factor.

I believe you.

If that's the case, then how
could it do damage to a boat that's sailing offshore? Second, it seems
like you should be able to handle high winds. Wouldn't you be prepared
for that? Why are you sleeping when there's a storm going on?

Believe it or not, sailing can be very tiring.
After a while the body is depleted and you just shut down.

Ok, but wouldn't you have someone to take over while you sleep? If you
get that tired, then maybe you need a shorter trip in better weather!


My boat sails 6 or 7 knots.
Weather can move in many times faster than that.

With modern weather forecasting we can pick our "window".
But that's no guarantee that the weather guessers will be right

The only perfectly safe way is to not go at all.
And that's just not acceptable.

The oldest prayer at sea still applies...

Dear Lord, my boat is so small,
and Your ocean so big...

Most of the boats abandoned while racing are later found floating - intact.
They were abandoned because the crew was exhausted to the point of having
no other choice.

No other choice than what? If the boat is still floating, why did the
people leave?

The crew is almost ALWAYS the limiting factor.

I believe you.


--

Richard Lamb
email me:
web site: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb

In article , Jessica B wrote:
No other choice than what? If the boat is still floating, why did the
people leave?

Try this on for size, and then Google for participants own reports: URL:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_Fastnet_race

I don't believe the people in this race were not prepared, nor the boats
in poor condition. The crews were just exhausted, and in fear for their
lives.

Further reading: Sydney to Hobart, 1998.

Justin.

--
Justin C, by the sea.

On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:05:49 -0800, Jessica B
wrote:

On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 19:32:07 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 12:45:51 -0800, Jessica B
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 20:07:49 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 18:33:15 -0800, Jessica B
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:02:08 +0700, Bruce
wrote:

much snipped

Sorry, but I didn't understand even 1/2 of this. Maybe one should not
go sailing if you can't deal with the issues that come up, short of
being run over by a tanker or something?

Sounds pretty simple. Can you deal with a tsunami arrives with no
warning and kills some 5,000 people in your immediate area? A 60 MPH
squall that hits you at night?

Of course not. A couple of things occur to me. First, I thought a
tsunami was only dangerous near land. If that's the case, then how
could it do damage to a boat that's sailing offshore? Second, it seems
like you should be able to handle high winds. Wouldn't you be prepared
for that? Why are you sleeping when there's a storm going on?

snipped.

A tsunami, or any other wave is simply water in motion. Depending on
the length and speed of the wave, the amount of vertical movement is
generally dependant on the depth of the water it is moving in. So you
are correct to say that in deep water they don't have much height, but
simply saying "off shore" isn't a sufficient description as you can be
quite a distance "off shore" and still have relatively shallow water.
in among the S.W. Thai waters, where the Tsunami did the most damage,
waters are generally less then 100 ft.

A "Sumatra", which might be called a line squall in other parts of the
world, is a rather brisk wind that travels fairly rapidly and if at
night generally is bit of a shock.

In the case I mentioned I was sailing north along the E. Coast of
Malaysia on a fine moonlit night with about 5 K. wind. Then, within
only a few minutes it was blowing 60 miles an hour for about an hour.

As in the case of the Tsunami, it has been stated that it is the worst
natural disaster in Thai history. A bit hard to plan for. Squalls
occur, frequently with no warning, certainly not something you can
specifically prepare for other then in a general way that you know it
might blow a bit.

And I don't remember saying I was asleep when the squall hit.




Cheers,

Bruce