"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
"Don White" wrote in message
...

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 1:27 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...



On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:48:02 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You misunderstand how a Lifesling is supposed to be used. The idea
is to let all of the line out behind the boat and then circle the
person in the water like you were bringing the tow rope to a water
skiier. This is a maneuver that needs to be practiced.

You should really try to find a "Safety at Sea" course in your area.
They typically provide live demonstrations of all sorts of safety
equipment and some very worthwhile discussions by experts.

http://offshore.ussailing.org/SAS/Seminars.htm

Yes, that's what I participated in... a couple of years ago. The other
good
point, which Wayne mentioned and I'll reinforce, is to get instruction
and
even more importantly get in lots of practice. It can be fun to do - if
the
water's warm and it's a nice day - with a volunteer. If it's not a nice
day,
practice one or more of the regular non-Lifesling techniques, such as
the
Quick Turn (aka Figure 8). You can't practice enough.

--
"j" ganz

I understand the circling bit until the Lifesling gets to the person
but that just seems kinda slow when what you really want to do is get
contact with the person ASAP.
Yes, I do need more practice though.

I believe, in a sailboat, the objective is to approach the victim while
sailing upwind. You don't want to run him down & finish the job, eh?

Yes. In fact, the object is not really to get to the person ASAP. Assuming
they're wearing a PFD, they're not going to sink. The initial object of
the process is to get yourself and your boat under control. Then, approach
them in a sensible way... from downwind... typically a close reach, since
a close haul give you no ability to point higher without stalling, and a
beam reach is too fast and nearly impossible to let out the sails enough
to stop.

The object even after you've reached the COB is not to "get him out of the
water," but rather to attach the COB to the boat, then retrieve.

The Lifesling cuts the time to get back to the water vs. a more
traditional approach (e.g., Figure 8) and gives the COB something to grab
that's attached to the boat. Thus, in rough wind/sea state, you don't have
a great of a potential to lose sight of the COB.

Everyone needs more practice. I practice with my private students and even
some charters if they're interested.

It's really one of the essential lessons for sailing instruction. On the
bay, we typically teach the Fig. 8, since we're interested in teaching
sail trim and boat handling. It's too dangerous in these waters to put
someone in the water. I've done that in the Carib., but not here, save the
seminars previously mentioned.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com




Bad assumption. What if no PFD? You want to get a life ring or a
floatation device to the person so they can stay above water. Especially in
cold water. Only MOB situation I was in was about 40 years ago and they guy
fell off the boat in to 50 degree water with a heavy coat on while salmon
fishing. Threw him a life ring so he would have some floatation and kept
eyes on him while I instructed the guy at the wheel where to go. And
Lifeslings were recalled for some forgotten reason about 20 years ago.

"Bill McKee" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
"Don White" wrote in message
...

"Frogwatch" wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 1:27 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message

...



On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:48:02 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via
a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You misunderstand how a Lifesling is supposed to be used. The idea
is to let all of the line out behind the boat and then circle the
person in the water like you were bringing the tow rope to a water
skiier. This is a maneuver that needs to be practiced.

You should really try to find a "Safety at Sea" course in your area.
They typically provide live demonstrations of all sorts of safety
equipment and some very worthwhile discussions by experts.

http://offshore.ussailing.org/SAS/Seminars.htm

Yes, that's what I participated in... a couple of years ago. The other
good
point, which Wayne mentioned and I'll reinforce, is to get instruction
and
even more importantly get in lots of practice. It can be fun to do - if
the
water's warm and it's a nice day - with a volunteer. If it's not a nice
day,
practice one or more of the regular non-Lifesling techniques, such as
the
Quick Turn (aka Figure 8). You can't practice enough.

--
"j" ganz

I understand the circling bit until the Lifesling gets to the person
but that just seems kinda slow when what you really want to do is get
contact with the person ASAP.
Yes, I do need more practice though.

I believe, in a sailboat, the objective is to approach the victim while
sailing upwind. You don't want to run him down & finish the job, eh?

Yes. In fact, the object is not really to get to the person ASAP.
Assuming they're wearing a PFD, they're not going to sink. The initial
object of the process is to get yourself and your boat under control.
Then, approach them in a sensible way... from downwind... typically a
close reach, since a close haul give you no ability to point higher
without stalling, and a beam reach is too fast and nearly impossible to
let out the sails enough to stop.

The object even after you've reached the COB is not to "get him out of
the water," but rather to attach the COB to the boat, then retrieve.

The Lifesling cuts the time to get back to the water vs. a more
traditional approach (e.g., Figure 8) and gives the COB something to grab
that's attached to the boat. Thus, in rough wind/sea state, you don't
have a great of a potential to lose sight of the COB.

Everyone needs more practice. I practice with my private students and
even some charters if they're interested.

It's really one of the essential lessons for sailing instruction. On the
bay, we typically teach the Fig. 8, since we're interested in teaching
sail trim and boat handling. It's too dangerous in these waters to put
someone in the water. I've done that in the Carib., but not here, save
the seminars previously mentioned.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com




Bad assumption. What if no PFD? You want to get a life ring or a
floatation device to the person so they can stay above water. Especially
in cold water. Only MOB situation I was in was about 40 years ago and
they guy fell off the boat in to 50 degree water with a heavy coat on
while salmon fishing. Threw him a life ring so he would have some
floatation and kept eyes on him while I instructed the guy at the wheel
where to go. And Lifeslings were recalled for some forgotten reason about
20 years ago.

It's not a bad assumption, given two factors. First, he pretty much implied
everyone was wearing one. Second, on my boat I require everyone to wear a
PFD. If you're wearing a PFD, you're going to be floating. The chances of an
inflatable failing is minimal, as long as it's properly maintained, which is
a trivial job.

Of course, getting back sooner vs. later is better. But, you can't
compromise the safety of the rest of the crew or the boat by acting
prematurely.

In the case of no PFD, then the options are much more limited. If the person
is conscious, even in 50 deg water, they're going to have useful
consciousness for 15 to 20 minutes (perhaps more). Throwing something,
perhaps lots of things that float is always a good idea. It sounds like you
did the right thing.. I take it the person survived.

If the person is unconscious, the options dwindle further. Probably, they're
going to die without a PFD. Not much can be done except try.

The Lifesling has undergone extensive testing, and the CG approved models
work as advertised.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On 09/04/2010 00:55, Capt. JG wrote:
"Bill wrote in message
...

"Capt. wrote in message
easolutions...
"Don wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 1:27 pm, "Capt. wrote:
wrote in message

...



On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:48:02 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via
a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You misunderstand how a Lifesling is supposed to be used. The idea
is to let all of the line out behind the boat and then circle the
person in the water like you were bringing the tow rope to a water
skiier. This is a maneuver that needs to be practiced.

You should really try to find a "Safety at Sea" course in your area.
They typically provide live demonstrations of all sorts of safety
equipment and some very worthwhile discussions by experts.

http://offshore.ussailing.org/SAS/Seminars.htm

Yes, that's what I participated in... a couple of years ago. The other
good
point, which Wayne mentioned and I'll reinforce, is to get instruction
and
even more importantly get in lots of practice. It can be fun to do - if
the
water's warm and it's a nice day - with a volunteer. If it's not a nice
day,
practice one or more of the regular non-Lifesling techniques, such as
the
Quick Turn (aka Figure 8). You can't practice enough.

--
"j" ganz

I understand the circling bit until the Lifesling gets to the person
but that just seems kinda slow when what you really want to do is get
contact with the person ASAP.
Yes, I do need more practice though.

I believe, in a sailboat, the objective is to approach the victim while
sailing upwind. You don't want to run him down& finish the job, eh?

Yes. In fact, the object is not really to get to the person ASAP.
Assuming they're wearing a PFD, they're not going to sink. The initial
object of the process is to get yourself and your boat under control.
Then, approach them in a sensible way... from downwind... typically a
close reach, since a close haul give you no ability to point higher
without stalling, and a beam reach is too fast and nearly impossible to
let out the sails enough to stop.

The object even after you've reached the COB is not to "get him out of
the water," but rather to attach the COB to the boat, then retrieve.

The Lifesling cuts the time to get back to the water vs. a more
traditional approach (e.g., Figure 8) and gives the COB something to grab
that's attached to the boat. Thus, in rough wind/sea state, you don't
have a great of a potential to lose sight of the COB.

Everyone needs more practice. I practice with my private students and
even some charters if they're interested.

It's really one of the essential lessons for sailing instruction. On the
bay, we typically teach the Fig. 8, since we're interested in teaching
sail trim and boat handling. It's too dangerous in these waters to put
someone in the water. I've done that in the Carib., but not here, save
the seminars previously mentioned.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com




Bad assumption. What if no PFD? You want to get a life ring or a
floatation device to the person so they can stay above water. Especially
in cold water. Only MOB situation I was in was about 40 years ago and
they guy fell off the boat in to 50 degree water with a heavy coat on
while salmon fishing. Threw him a life ring so he would have some
floatation and kept eyes on him while I instructed the guy at the wheel
where to go. And Lifeslings were recalled for some forgotten reason about
20 years ago.

It's not a bad assumption, given two factors. First, he pretty much implied
everyone was wearing one. Second, on my boat I require everyone to wear a
PFD. If you're wearing a PFD, you're going to be floating. The chances of an
inflatable failing is minimal, as long as it's properly maintained, which is
a trivial job.

Of course, getting back sooner vs. later is better. But, you can't
compromise the safety of the rest of the crew or the boat by acting
prematurely.

In the case of no PFD, then the options are much more limited. If the person
is conscious, even in 50 deg water, they're going to have useful
consciousness for 15 to 20 minutes (perhaps more). Throwing something,
perhaps lots of things that float is always a good idea. It sounds like you
did the right thing.. I take it the person survived.

If the person is unconscious, the options dwindle further. Probably, they're
going to die without a PFD. Not much can be done except try.

The Lifesling has undergone extensive testing, and the CG approved models
work as advertised.


I just tell people that if they fall out they are dead and I am not
going to pick them up.

"goofball_star_dot_etal" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 09/04/2010 00:55, Capt. JG wrote:
"Bill wrote in message
...

"Capt. wrote in message
easolutions...
"Don wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 1:27 pm, "Capt. wrote:
wrote in message

...



On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:48:02 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something
to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on
the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach
via
a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new
EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You misunderstand how a Lifesling is supposed to be used. The idea
is to let all of the line out behind the boat and then circle the
person in the water like you were bringing the tow rope to a water
skiier. This is a maneuver that needs to be practiced.

You should really try to find a "Safety at Sea" course in your area.
They typically provide live demonstrations of all sorts of safety
equipment and some very worthwhile discussions by experts.

http://offshore.ussailing.org/SAS/Seminars.htm

Yes, that's what I participated in... a couple of years ago. The
other
good
point, which Wayne mentioned and I'll reinforce, is to get
instruction
and
even more importantly get in lots of practice. It can be fun to do -
if
the
water's warm and it's a nice day - with a volunteer. If it's not a
nice
day,
practice one or more of the regular non-Lifesling techniques, such as
the
Quick Turn (aka Figure 8). You can't practice enough.

--
"j" ganz

I understand the circling bit until the Lifesling gets to the person
but that just seems kinda slow when what you really want to do is get
contact with the person ASAP.
Yes, I do need more practice though.

I believe, in a sailboat, the objective is to approach the victim
while
sailing upwind. You don't want to run him down& finish the job, eh?

Yes. In fact, the object is not really to get to the person ASAP.
Assuming they're wearing a PFD, they're not going to sink. The initial
object of the process is to get yourself and your boat under control.
Then, approach them in a sensible way... from downwind... typically a
close reach, since a close haul give you no ability to point higher
without stalling, and a beam reach is too fast and nearly impossible to
let out the sails enough to stop.

The object even after you've reached the COB is not to "get him out of
the water," but rather to attach the COB to the boat, then retrieve.

The Lifesling cuts the time to get back to the water vs. a more
traditional approach (e.g., Figure 8) and gives the COB something to
grab
that's attached to the boat. Thus, in rough wind/sea state, you don't
have a great of a potential to lose sight of the COB.

Everyone needs more practice. I practice with my private students and
even some charters if they're interested.

It's really one of the essential lessons for sailing instruction. On
the
bay, we typically teach the Fig. 8, since we're interested in teaching
sail trim and boat handling. It's too dangerous in these waters to put
someone in the water. I've done that in the Carib., but not here, save
the seminars previously mentioned.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com




Bad assumption. What if no PFD? You want to get a life ring or a
floatation device to the person so they can stay above water.
Especially
in cold water. Only MOB situation I was in was about 40 years ago and
they guy fell off the boat in to 50 degree water with a heavy coat on
while salmon fishing. Threw him a life ring so he would have some
floatation and kept eyes on him while I instructed the guy at the wheel
where to go. And Lifeslings were recalled for some forgotten reason
about
20 years ago.

It's not a bad assumption, given two factors. First, he pretty much
implied
everyone was wearing one. Second, on my boat I require everyone to wear a
PFD. If you're wearing a PFD, you're going to be floating. The chances of
an
inflatable failing is minimal, as long as it's properly maintained, which
is
a trivial job.

Of course, getting back sooner vs. later is better. But, you can't
compromise the safety of the rest of the crew or the boat by acting
prematurely.

In the case of no PFD, then the options are much more limited. If the
person
is conscious, even in 50 deg water, they're going to have useful
consciousness for 15 to 20 minutes (perhaps more). Throwing something,
perhaps lots of things that float is always a good idea. It sounds like
you
did the right thing.. I take it the person survived.

If the person is unconscious, the options dwindle further. Probably,
they're
going to die without a PFD. Not much can be done except try.

The Lifesling has undergone extensive testing, and the CG approved models
work as advertised.


I just tell people that if they fall out they are dead and I am not going
to pick them up.


Don't get a lot of return visitors I imagine. I ask them if they know how to
swim. No matter which way they answer, I tell them to wallets/purses in the
cabin area. :-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On 09/04/2010 19:02, Capt. JG wrote:
w wrote in message
o.uk...
On 09/04/2010 00:55, Capt. JG wrote:
"Bill wrote in message
...

"Capt. wrote in message
easolutions...
"Don wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 1:27 pm, "Capt. wrote:
wrote in message

...



On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:48:02 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something
to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on
the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach
via
a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new
EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You misunderstand how a Lifesling is supposed to be used. The idea
is to let all of the line out behind the boat and then circle the
person in the water like you were bringing the tow rope to a water
skiier. This is a maneuver that needs to be practiced.

You should really try to find a "Safety at Sea" course in your area.
They typically provide live demonstrations of all sorts of safety
equipment and some very worthwhile discussions by experts.

http://offshore.ussailing.org/SAS/Seminars.htm

Yes, that's what I participated in... a couple of years ago. The
other
good
point, which Wayne mentioned and I'll reinforce, is to get
instruction
and
even more importantly get in lots of practice. It can be fun to do -
if
the
water's warm and it's a nice day - with a volunteer. If it's not a
nice
day,
practice one or more of the regular non-Lifesling techniques, such as
the
Quick Turn (aka Figure 8). You can't practice enough.

--
"j" ganz

I understand the circling bit until the Lifesling gets to the person
but that just seems kinda slow when what you really want to do is get
contact with the person ASAP.
Yes, I do need more practice though.

I believe, in a sailboat, the objective is to approach the victim
while
sailing upwind. You don't want to run him down& finish the job, eh?

Yes. In fact, the object is not really to get to the person ASAP.
Assuming they're wearing a PFD, they're not going to sink. The initial
object of the process is to get yourself and your boat under control.
Then, approach them in a sensible way... from downwind... typically a
close reach, since a close haul give you no ability to point higher
without stalling, and a beam reach is too fast and nearly impossible to
let out the sails enough to stop.

The object even after you've reached the COB is not to "get him out of
the water," but rather to attach the COB to the boat, then retrieve.

The Lifesling cuts the time to get back to the water vs. a more
traditional approach (e.g., Figure 8) and gives the COB something to
grab
that's attached to the boat. Thus, in rough wind/sea state, you don't
have a great of a potential to lose sight of the COB.

Everyone needs more practice. I practice with my private students and
even some charters if they're interested.

It's really one of the essential lessons for sailing instruction. On
the
bay, we typically teach the Fig. 8, since we're interested in teaching
sail trim and boat handling. It's too dangerous in these waters to put
someone in the water. I've done that in the Carib., but not here, save
the seminars previously mentioned.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com




Bad assumption. What if no PFD? You want to get a life ring or a
floatation device to the person so they can stay above water.
Especially
in cold water. Only MOB situation I was in was about 40 years ago and
they guy fell off the boat in to 50 degree water with a heavy coat on
while salmon fishing. Threw him a life ring so he would have some
floatation and kept eyes on him while I instructed the guy at the wheel
where to go. And Lifeslings were recalled for some forgotten reason
about
20 years ago.

It's not a bad assumption, given two factors. First, he pretty much
implied
everyone was wearing one. Second, on my boat I require everyone to wear a
PFD. If you're wearing a PFD, you're going to be floating. The chances of
an
inflatable failing is minimal, as long as it's properly maintained, which
is
a trivial job.

Of course, getting back sooner vs. later is better. But, you can't
compromise the safety of the rest of the crew or the boat by acting
prematurely.

In the case of no PFD, then the options are much more limited. If the
person
is conscious, even in 50 deg water, they're going to have useful
consciousness for 15 to 20 minutes (perhaps more). Throwing something,
perhaps lots of things that float is always a good idea. It sounds like
you
did the right thing.. I take it the person survived.

If the person is unconscious, the options dwindle further. Probably,
they're
going to die without a PFD. Not much can be done except try.

The Lifesling has undergone extensive testing, and the CG approved models
work as advertised.


I just tell people that if they fall out they are dead and I am not going
to pick them up.


Don't get a lot of return visitors I imagine.

You get what you pay for!

I ask them if they know how to
swim. No matter which way they answer, I tell them to wallets/purses in the
cabin area. :-)

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 18:46:48 +0100, goofball_star_dot_etal
wrote:


I just tell people that if they fall out they are dead and I am not
going to pick them up.

Well, I think you should at least try to pick them up, but this
warning has a lot of truth to it. Off the top of my head, I would
guess that if you fall off a moving sailboat, your immediate chance of
survival drops to something less than 50%. If you are still in the
water 15 minutes later, I'd say it has dropped to more like 10%.

That would be in daylight, and calm to moderate conditions.

Practicing recovery is a great thing to do, but I don't believe it
makes you more than marginally safer at best. One of the benefits of
practicing is that it makes you realize just how unlikely a successful
rescue really is.

The odds are heavily against you if you fall off.



I disagree about the practice not helping that much if a real situation
comes up, although I do agree that it gives you the insight into how
difficult it can be. I think the main advantage to practice beyond the
"knowing what to do" portion is that it gives you a way to calm down enough
to get your sh*t together (e.g., get your crew to calm down, get the boat
under control, etc.). It also, with enough practice, tends to move in the
direction of muscle memory, rote sort of decisions. For example, when I took
my latest instructor cert. test, part of it is doing two successful COB
drills with two different techniques. It was on a boat that I'm not really
all that familiar with. But it was no big deal, even in the 20kts or so we
were in. I just stopped analyzing the situation at one point and relied on
"instinct" to do it. The wind then increased to the point where gybing
(e.g., the Quick Stop) wasn't a safe option. I elected to do another F8,
which the tester seemed fine with for the qualifying 2nd drill.

I think your percentages are pretty accurate. Kind of reminds me of the time
delay for a cardio event... as the time before treatment increases the
survival rate drops precipitously.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On 09/04/2010 19:16, wrote:
On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 18:46:48 +0100, goofball_star_dot_etal
wrote:


I just tell people that if they fall out they are dead and I am not
going to pick them up.

Well, I think you should at least try to pick them up,

That sounds like a great idea. I have never had any complaints in the past.

"goofball_star_dot_etal" wrote in message
o.uk...
On 09/04/2010 19:16, wrote:
On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 18:46:48 +0100, goofball_star_dot_etal
wrote:


I just tell people that if they fall out they are dead and I am not
going to pick them up.

Well, I think you should at least try to pick them up,

That sounds like a great idea. I have never had any complaints in the
past.


Sounds like you learned something new! Heh..

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On 09/04/2010 22:37, Capt. JG wrote:
w wrote in message
o.uk...
On 09/04/2010 19:16, wrote:
On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 18:46:48 +0100, goofball_star_dot_etal
wrote:


I just tell people that if they fall out they are dead and I am not
going to pick them up.

Well, I think you should at least try to pick them up,

That sounds like a great idea. I have never had any complaints in the
past.


Sounds like you learned something new! Heh..


Lost count more likely.

On 09/04/2010 00:55, Capt. JG wrote:
"Bill wrote in message
...

"Capt. wrote in message
easolutions...
"Don wrote in message
...

wrote in message
...
On Apr 8, 1:27 pm, "Capt. wrote:
wrote in message

...



On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 08:48:02 -0700 (PDT), Frogwatch
wrote:

I have one but when I consider how it is to be used, it makes no
sense. In most cases, you will want to be able to throw something to
the person and you simply cannot throw the Lifesling. After
considering various throwables, I settled on a cheap JimBuoy with a
poly (floating) rope attached via a ss clip. The 150' of light line
goes into a canvas bag on the stern rail where it is protected from
the sun. The ring buoy is detached and put below when I am not on the
boat and the line is stuffed in its bag out of the sun. When I go
aboard, I simply attach the line again.
Of course, this is in addition to the tethers we use that attach via
a
carabiner to our inflatable life jackets. The tethers go to a ring
bolt in the cockpit. At night, everybody wears a tether.
The inflatables each have a strobe as well and mine has a new EPIRB.
YES, I am paranoid.

You misunderstand how a Lifesling is supposed to be used. The idea
is to let all of the line out behind the boat and then circle the
person in the water like you were bringing the tow rope to a water
skiier. This is a maneuver that needs to be practiced.

You should really try to find a "Safety at Sea" course in your area.
They typically provide live demonstrations of all sorts of safety
equipment and some very worthwhile discussions by experts.

http://offshore.ussailing.org/SAS/Seminars.htm

Yes, that's what I participated in... a couple of years ago. The other
good
point, which Wayne mentioned and I'll reinforce, is to get instruction
and
even more importantly get in lots of practice. It can be fun to do - if
the
water's warm and it's a nice day - with a volunteer. If it's not a nice
day,
practice one or more of the regular non-Lifesling techniques, such as
the
Quick Turn (aka Figure 8). You can't practice enough.

--
"j" ganz

I understand the circling bit until the Lifesling gets to the person
but that just seems kinda slow when what you really want to do is get
contact with the person ASAP.
Yes, I do need more practice though.

I believe, in a sailboat, the objective is to approach the victim while
sailing upwind. You don't want to run him down& finish the job, eh?

Yes. In fact, the object is not really to get to the person ASAP.
Assuming they're wearing a PFD, they're not going to sink. The initial
object of the process is to get yourself and your boat under control.
Then, approach them in a sensible way... from downwind... typically a
close reach, since a close haul give you no ability to point higher
without stalling, and a beam reach is too fast and nearly impossible to
let out the sails enough to stop.

The object even after you've reached the COB is not to "get him out of
the water," but rather to attach the COB to the boat, then retrieve.

The Lifesling cuts the time to get back to the water vs. a more
traditional approach (e.g., Figure 8) and gives the COB something to grab
that's attached to the boat. Thus, in rough wind/sea state, you don't
have a great of a potential to lose sight of the COB.

Everyone needs more practice. I practice with my private students and
even some charters if they're interested.

It's really one of the essential lessons for sailing instruction. On the
bay, we typically teach the Fig. 8, since we're interested in teaching
sail trim and boat handling. It's too dangerous in these waters to put
someone in the water. I've done that in the Carib., but not here, save
the seminars previously mentioned.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com




Bad assumption. What if no PFD? You want to get a life ring or a
floatation device to the person so they can stay above water. Especially
in cold water. Only MOB situation I was in was about 40 years ago and
they guy fell off the boat in to 50 degree water with a heavy coat on
while salmon fishing. Threw him a life ring so he would have some
floatation and kept eyes on him while I instructed the guy at the wheel
where to go. And Lifeslings were recalled for some forgotten reason about
20 years ago.

It's not a bad assumption, given two factors. First, he pretty much implied
everyone was wearing one. Second, on my boat I require everyone to wear a
PFD. If you're wearing a PFD, you're going to be floating. The chances of an
inflatable failing is minimal, as long as it's properly maintained, which is
a trivial job.

Of course, getting back sooner vs. later is better. But, you can't
compromise the safety of the rest of the crew or the boat by acting
prematurely.

In the case of no PFD, then the options are much more limited. If the person
is conscious, even in 50 deg water, they're going to have useful
consciousness for 15 to 20 minutes (perhaps more). Throwing something,
perhaps lots of things that float is always a good idea. It sounds like you
did the right thing.. I take it the person survived.

If the person is unconscious, the options dwindle further. Probably, they're
going to die without a PFD. Not much can be done except try.

The Lifesling has undergone extensive testing, and the CG approved models
work as advertised.

I don't think they had H%S when I was a kid, but at least I had a duffle
coat..
http://www.ceredigion.gov.uk/index.cfm?articleid=12585