"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
...
Hoges in WA wrote:
"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
...
Harry wrote:
On 2/27/10 12:03 PM, Stephen Trapani wrote:
Larry wrote:
"Capt. JG" wrote in news:zP-dncsy_
reasolutions:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Joe wrote in
news:79711f1e-f9e8-4e35-bd25-
:

It's bad JuJu to count your eggs at sea.

Joe


Talking about money, wouldn't that be bad JewJew?


--
"iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!"

Larry

Larry, your racism really has no place here or anywhere.

Why isn't anyone allowed to make a JOKE with the word JEW in it?

Am I supposed to feel guilty? I don't.

If I make a joke about Baptists, noone complains. Why only Jews?
A derogatory joke about Jews is racist, a derogatory joke about
Baptists
is not racist. Pretty simple. If you were consistently derisive about
any other race, like Africans or Asians, you'd be getting the same
grief, maybe more.

Stephen

There's no such race as "Jew" or "Jewish," despite the best efforts of
some to make it seem so.
There is no such thing as "race" period. But there is such a thing as
contemptible prejudice based upon genetics. We call that "racism."
Larry's psychological deficiency falls into that category.

Stephen



If I had had close friends on the USS LIberty, I would probably feel as
Larry does, particularly as Israel has gone unpunished for that
particular crime.

I didn't and I don't but I can understand those that do.

Really? So, say if you had a friend killed by a group of Africans you'd
start believing Africans were inferior to everyone else?

Stephen


There's a difference between individual acts of violence and that generated
by the state.

However, my opinion of most Africans is already low, given the high success
rate they have in running ********s of countries.
(BTW, I am not a racist, I am a bigot - I am most particular in what I am
prejudiced about.)

I

Hoges in WA wrote:
"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
...
Hoges in WA wrote:
"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
...
Harry wrote:
On 2/27/10 12:03 PM, Stephen Trapani wrote:
Larry wrote:
"Capt. JG" wrote in news:zP-dncsy_
reasolutions:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Joe wrote in
news:79711f1e-f9e8-4e35-bd25-
:

It's bad JuJu to count your eggs at sea.

Joe


Talking about money, wouldn't that be bad JewJew?


--
"iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!"

Larry

Larry, your racism really has no place here or anywhere.

Why isn't anyone allowed to make a JOKE with the word JEW in it?

Am I supposed to feel guilty? I don't.

If I make a joke about Baptists, noone complains. Why only Jews?
A derogatory joke about Jews is racist, a derogatory joke about
Baptists
is not racist. Pretty simple. If you were consistently derisive about
any other race, like Africans or Asians, you'd be getting the same
grief, maybe more.

Stephen
There's no such race as "Jew" or "Jewish," despite the best efforts of
some to make it seem so.
There is no such thing as "race" period. But there is such a thing as
contemptible prejudice based upon genetics. We call that "racism."
Larry's psychological deficiency falls into that category.

Stephen


If I had had close friends on the USS LIberty, I would probably feel as
Larry does, particularly as Israel has gone unpunished for that
particular crime.

I didn't and I don't but I can understand those that do.
Really? So, say if you had a friend killed by a group of Africans you'd
start believing Africans were inferior to everyone else?

Stephen


There's a difference between individual acts of violence and that generated
by the state.

However, my opinion of most Africans is already low, given the high success
rate they have in running ********s of countries.
(BTW, I am not a racist, I am a bigot - I am most particular in what I am
prejudiced about.)

Hm, no wonder you're sympathetic. Lets try again with another group. Say
a North Korean ship accidentally killed some friends of yours. Would you
then think all Asians are inferior and deserve to be killed? If they did
it on purpose would you *then* think all Asians are inferior and deserve
to be killed?

Stephen

"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
...
Hoges in WA wrote:
"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
...
Hoges in WA wrote:
"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
...
Harry wrote:
On 2/27/10 12:03 PM, Stephen Trapani wrote:
Larry wrote:
"Capt. JG" wrote in news:zP-dncsy_
reasolutions:

"Larry" wrote in message
...
Joe wrote in
news:79711f1e-f9e8-4e35-bd25-
:

It's bad JuJu to count your eggs at sea.

Joe


Talking about money, wouldn't that be bad JewJew?


--
"iPad is to computing what Etch-A-Sketch is to art!"

Larry

Larry, your racism really has no place here or anywhere.

Why isn't anyone allowed to make a JOKE with the word JEW in it?

Am I supposed to feel guilty? I don't.

If I make a joke about Baptists, noone complains. Why only Jews?
A derogatory joke about Jews is racist, a derogatory joke about
Baptists
is not racist. Pretty simple. If you were consistently derisive
about
any other race, like Africans or Asians, you'd be getting the same
grief, maybe more.

Stephen
There's no such race as "Jew" or "Jewish," despite the best efforts
of some to make it seem so.
There is no such thing as "race" period. But there is such a thing as
contemptible prejudice based upon genetics. We call that "racism."
Larry's psychological deficiency falls into that category.

Stephen


If I had had close friends on the USS LIberty, I would probably feel as
Larry does, particularly as Israel has gone unpunished for that
particular crime.

I didn't and I don't but I can understand those that do.
Really? So, say if you had a friend killed by a group of Africans you'd
start believing Africans were inferior to everyone else?

Stephen


There's a difference between individual acts of violence and that
generated by the state.

However, my opinion of most Africans is already low, given the high
success rate they have in running ********s of countries.
(BTW, I am not a racist, I am a bigot - I am most particular in what I am
prejudiced about.)

Hm, no wonder you're sympathetic. Lets try again with another group. Say a
North Korean ship accidentally killed some friends of yours. Would you
then think all Asians are inferior and deserve to be killed? If they did
it on purpose would you *then* think all Asians are inferior and deserve
to be killed?

Stephen

No, you're missing the distinction between racism and bigotry.
I am selective in my prejudices, not racially biased.

To illustrate the point:-
Genetically there is no difference between Palestinians and Jews. (the ones
from Israel) They are both Semitic. However, I generally dislike the
Palestinians and generally like the Jews. That demonstrates prejudice - I
prejudge based on my experiences.

With respect to Asians, I generally get on well with Chinese, although I am
not all that well disposed to those from Peking and prefer the company of
southerners - again, this is experience as I find the ones from the north
far quicker to espouse Chinese political aims and the ones from the south
more inclined to eat good food and drink heaps. I like the company of
Cantonese, but not party-liners from the capital.

This distinction also applies on Oz, as I generally am not all that well
disposed to people from Canberra (the capital) as they are far more liberal
elitist than the rest of Australia. I am led to believe that you people
have this problem with Washington DC apparatchicks also.

With respect to Africans, I would not countenance giving someone from the
Congo anything other than suspicion, whereas I'd be happy to relax in the
company of someone from Tanganyika. Unfortunately, in that blighted tribal
basket-case, there are very few tribes to like.

It has nothing to do with race and is all about track records, which is what
most people base their prejudices on. Most just don't recognise it or admit
it.

I have a different Jewish experience to Larry's, and I have many Jewish
associates and friends but as I said, I understand why he is of the opinion
he is.

I hope this makes it clearer.

Hoges in WA wrote:

Hm, no wonder you're sympathetic. Lets try again with another group. Say a
North Korean ship accidentally killed some friends of yours. Would you
then think all Asians are inferior and deserve to be killed? If they did
it on purpose would you *then* think all Asians are inferior and deserve
to be killed?

Stephen

No, you're missing the distinction between racism and bigotry.
I am selective in my prejudices, not racially biased.

[...]
I have a different Jewish experience to Larry's, and I have many Jewish
associates and friends but as I said, I understand why he is of the opinion
he is.

So, your experiences with people who have real cultural differences is
helping you understand someone who is racist. That makes no sense.

You just denied you would do what a vile racist has done and then used
an explanation of what you would do to say you understand the racist.

Stephen

"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
...
Hoges in WA wrote:

Hm, no wonder you're sympathetic. Lets try again with another group. Say
a North Korean ship accidentally killed some friends of yours. Would you
then think all Asians are inferior and deserve to be killed? If they did
it on purpose would you *then* think all Asians are inferior and deserve
to be killed?

Stephen

No, you're missing the distinction between racism and bigotry.
I am selective in my prejudices, not racially biased.

[...]
I have a different Jewish experience to Larry's, and I have many Jewish
associates and friends but as I said, I understand why he is of the
opinion he is.

So, your experiences with people who have real cultural differences is
helping you understand someone who is racist. That makes no sense.

You just denied you would do what a vile racist has done and then used an
explanation of what you would do to say you understand the racist.

Stephen


I understand why he's angry.

"Hoges in WA" wrote in message
...
Hm, no wonder you're sympathetic. Lets try again with another group. Say
a North Korean ship accidentally killed some friends of yours. Would you
then think all Asians are inferior and deserve to be killed? If they did
it on purpose would you *then* think all Asians are inferior and deserve
to be killed?

Stephen

No, you're missing the distinction between racism and bigotry.
I am selective in my prejudices, not racially biased.

I think that's a reasonable argument, but I have a question (or perhaps a
comment). Don't you think we need to struggle against our prejudices? I
think that allows us to make the claim we're fully human.


To illustrate the point:-
Genetically there is no difference between Palestinians and Jews. (the
ones from Israel) They are both Semitic. However, I generally dislike
the Palestinians and generally like the Jews. That demonstrates
prejudice - I prejudge based on my experiences.

To use your point as the illustration... perhaps you don't know Palestinians
as well? Perhaps there's some other factor involved (up to you to share it).
I think we can't get away from have prejudices and bias, but we have a
choice of either fighting against those internal mindsets or "ignore" them.

I didn't comment below, but I think all of your points say about the same
thing...

With respect to Asians, I generally get on well with Chinese, although I
am not all that well disposed to those from Peking and prefer the company
of southerners - again, this is experience as I find the ones from the
north far quicker to espouse Chinese political aims and the ones from the
south more inclined to eat good food and drink heaps. I like the company
of Cantonese, but not party-liners from the capital.

This distinction also applies on Oz, as I generally am not all that well
disposed to people from Canberra (the capital) as they are far more
liberal elitist than the rest of Australia. I am led to believe that you
people have this problem with Washington DC apparatchicks also.

With respect to Africans, I would not countenance giving someone from the
Congo anything other than suspicion, whereas I'd be happy to relax in the
company of someone from Tanganyika. Unfortunately, in that blighted
tribal basket-case, there are very few tribes to like.

It has nothing to do with race and is all about track records, which is
what most people base their prejudices on. Most just don't recognise it
or admit it.

I have a different Jewish experience to Larry's, and I have many Jewish
associates and friends but as I said, I understand why he is of the
opinion he is.

I hope this makes it clearer.








--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
"Hoges in WA" wrote in message
...
Hm, no wonder you're sympathetic. Lets try again with another group. Say
a North Korean ship accidentally killed some friends of yours. Would you
then think all Asians are inferior and deserve to be killed? If they did
it on purpose would you *then* think all Asians are inferior and deserve
to be killed?

Stephen

No, you're missing the distinction between racism and bigotry.
I am selective in my prejudices, not racially biased.

I think that's a reasonable argument, but I have a question (or perhaps a
comment). Don't you think we need to struggle against our prejudices? I
think that allows us to make the claim we're fully human.

That would be an ideal. On an intellectual level, I get an Arab magazine
bi-monthly and have received it since 1977.

I have learned a lot about Arab culture, history, literature and achievement
(Ibn Battuta was a bit of a cruiser!).

I can distinguish between an educated Arab and a Palestinian thug from a
criminal family. However, until I know where they come from, I treat them
with suspicion and relax once I know.

If I'm wandering along a street in my home town and a group of Australian
Aborigines is coming towards me, male or female, my defences are up at once.
If at all possible, I'll cross the street - I can't afford time off work to
attend court cases.

That's pre-judging or, prejudicial. It's discriminatory, based on hard-won
experience. It's also something I will not stop doing and something I won't
stop complaining about until they begin to behave.

If, on the other hand, I was to encounter a group of aborigines in Cairns,
on the other side of the coutnry, I would be more likely to be interested
rather than suspicious, as most of them have a job and a future to protect.

I think everyone discriminates, even lefties who say they don't - I just
admit I do.

My attitude is roundly criticised by many of our acquaintances (my wife's
really) but mention "American" to an Oz lefty and you get rolled eyes,
sneers etc.

They don't see their discrimination as being as bad as mine because they
think they're entitled to "that" prejudice and I'm not entitled to mine.

Just makes my sniping worse.
Hoges in WA

snipped

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Hoges in WA" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
"Hoges in WA" wrote in message
...
Hm, no wonder you're sympathetic. Lets try again with another group.
Say a North Korean ship accidentally killed some friends of yours.
Would you then think all Asians are inferior and deserve to be killed?
If they did it on purpose would you *then* think all Asians are
inferior and deserve to be killed?

Stephen

No, you're missing the distinction between racism and bigotry.
I am selective in my prejudices, not racially biased.

I think that's a reasonable argument, but I have a question (or perhaps a
comment). Don't you think we need to struggle against our prejudices? I
think that allows us to make the claim we're fully human.

That would be an ideal. On an intellectual level, I get an Arab magazine
bi-monthly and have received it since 1977.

I think the struggle is the important part. No one can be 100% successful
(unless you're a saint).

We all have deep-seated prejudices, but we can and should strive to overcome
them.


I have learned a lot about Arab culture, history, literature and
achievement (Ibn Battuta was a bit of a cruiser!).

I can distinguish between an educated Arab and a Palestinian thug from a
criminal family. However, until I know where they come from, I treat them
with suspicion and relax once I know.

If I'm wandering along a street in my home town and a group of Australian
Aborigines is coming towards me, male or female, my defences are up at
once. If at all possible, I'll cross the street - I can't afford time off
work to attend court cases.

That's pre-judging or, prejudicial. It's discriminatory, based on
hard-won experience. It's also something I will not stop doing and
something I won't stop complaining about until they begin to behave.

It's also called self-preservation, and I don't see something wrong with it.
The circumstance has a lot to do with it. If you were attending some
professional conference that had a lot of Aborigines in attendance, would
you feel the same way while listening to a lecture? Crime is crime, and it's
reasonable to take precautions, but I would have the same reaction if I were
about to encounter a bunch of skin heads.


If, on the other hand, I was to encounter a group of aborigines in Cairns,
on the other side of the coutnry, I would be more likely to be interested
rather than suspicious, as most of them have a job and a future to
protect.

Right... I didn't read this until after I typed previously. :-)

I think everyone discriminates, even lefties who say they don't - I just
admit I do.

I think anyone who is being intellectually honest would say they either do
or struggle mightily not to.

My attitude is roundly criticised by many of our acquaintances (my wife's
really) but mention "American" to an Oz lefty and you get rolled eyes,
sneers etc.

They don't see their discrimination as being as bad as mine because they
think they're entitled to "that" prejudice and I'm not entitled to mine.

Just makes my sniping worse.

Yes. Entitlement... that's a harbinger of unfettered prejudice.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
"Hoges in WA" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
"Hoges in WA" wrote in message
...
Hm, no wonder you're sympathetic. Lets try again with another group.
Say a North Korean ship accidentally killed some friends of yours.
Would you then think all Asians are inferior and deserve to be killed?
If they did it on purpose would you *then* think all Asians are
inferior and deserve to be killed?

Stephen

No, you're missing the distinction between racism and bigotry.
I am selective in my prejudices, not racially biased.

I think that's a reasonable argument, but I have a question (or perhaps
a comment). Don't you think we need to struggle against our prejudices?
I think that allows us to make the claim we're fully human.

That would be an ideal. On an intellectual level, I get an Arab magazine
bi-monthly and have received it since 1977.

I think the struggle is the important part. No one can be 100% successful
(unless you're a saint).

We all have deep-seated prejudices, but we can and should strive to
overcome them.


I have learned a lot about Arab culture, history, literature and
achievement (Ibn Battuta was a bit of a cruiser!).

I can distinguish between an educated Arab and a Palestinian thug from a
criminal family. However, until I know where they come from, I treat
them with suspicion and relax once I know.

If I'm wandering along a street in my home town and a group of Australian
Aborigines is coming towards me, male or female, my defences are up at
once. If at all possible, I'll cross the street - I can't afford time off
work to attend court cases.

That's pre-judging or, prejudicial. It's discriminatory, based on
hard-won experience. It's also something I will not stop doing and
something I won't stop complaining about until they begin to behave.

It's also called self-preservation, and I don't see something wrong with
it. The circumstance has a lot to do with it. If you were attending some
professional conference that had a lot of Aborigines in attendance, would
you feel the same way while listening to a lecture? Crime is crime, and
it's reasonable to take precautions, but I would have the same reaction if
I were about to encounter a bunch of skin heads.


If, on the other hand, I was to encounter a group of aborigines in
Cairns, on the other side of the coutnry, I would be more likely to be
interested rather than suspicious, as most of them have a job and a
future to protect.

Right... I didn't read this until after I typed previously. :-)

I think everyone discriminates, even lefties who say they don't - I just
admit I do.

I think anyone who is being intellectually honest would say they either do
or struggle mightily not to.

My attitude is roundly criticised by many of our acquaintances (my wife's
really) but mention "American" to an Oz lefty and you get rolled eyes,
sneers etc.

They don't see their discrimination as being as bad as mine because they
think they're entitled to "that" prejudice and I'm not entitled to mine.

Just makes my sniping worse.

Yes. Entitlement... that's a harbinger of unfettered prejudice.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com


That last line of yours is probably the universal underlying factor and to
either remove it or minimise it, someone has to move first.
(and like everyone else, I always say - Well, I'm not going to, you do it.)

"Hoges in WA" wrote in message
...

snipped

OT: Are you still getting out this way?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com