On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:59:52 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

http://www.goes.noaa.gov/HURRLOOPS/huirloop.html (Dated material)


Better go sailing, Joe. Get some much needed experience with "giant' 6-foot
seas.


Wilbur Hubbard


Wilbur, why don't you give this nonsense a rest for a while. It's
really not interesting to anyone but you. At least Joe was out
sailing. You should be also.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 11:59:52 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

http://www.goes.noaa.gov/HURRLOOPS/huirloop.html (Dated material)


Better go sailing, Joe. Get some much needed experience with "giant'
6-foot
seas.


Wilbur Hubbard


Wilbur, why don't you give this nonsense a rest for a while. It's
really not interesting to anyone but you. At least Joe was out
sailing. You should be also.




You and I (and Joe) have a different definition of 'sailing'. Mine does not
include 'sinking'. Yours and Joe's seems to. Sad! I consider it my duty to
provide a counterpoint to those who fail and then justify their failure as
something that is bound to happen when one is doing a thing.

Whenever anybody justifies total failure by stating something dumb like, "At
least I was out there doing it," then I conclude that they have little or no
idea what the word 'success' means nor do they even strive to succeed. They
would rather fail and laud themselves for trying and failing as if that were
something to be proud of. In this manner they actually SET THEMSELVES UP FOR
FAILURE!

I would caution those who might be lured by this kind of stupidity to stand
fast, turn and follow a more sensible path.

I adamantly reject this kind of flawed thinking for these and other valid
reasons. It further rankles when Joe, the failure, struts around acting like
he's some sort of authority on success. What a joke! The man's a loser who
needs to shut his pathetic pie hole.



Wilbur Hubbard

Hating to fluff Wilbur's feathers, but I saw the back of someone's T-shirt
at Mangoes' brunch buffet last Sunday:

"The world cares little of the storms you've encountered. The world wants
only to know, 'Did you bring the ship safely into port?' "

Having had a stainless steel basket ride out of a storm, I'm not pointing
fingers - just commiserating :{))

And, the rocky shelf aside, we and the boat were doing fine, so, had it not
been for that, we would have (and, for that matter, did, later, but I don't
think that was the flavor of the quote)... :{))

L8R

Skip, still in Marsh Harbour awaiting the right weather window, which looks
to be Tuesday, having migrated from Sunday and Monday, successively...

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in
its hand
(Richard Bach)

"Flying Pig" wrote in message
...
Hating to fluff Wilbur's feathers, but I saw the back of someone's T-shirt
at Mangoes' brunch buffet last Sunday:

"The world cares little of the storms you've encountered. The world wants
only to know, 'Did you bring the ship safely into port?' "

Having had a stainless steel basket ride out of a storm, I'm not pointing
fingers - just commiserating :{))

And, the rocky shelf aside, we and the boat were doing fine, so, had it
not
been for that, we would have (and, for that matter, did, later, but I
don't
think that was the flavor of the quote)... :{))

L8R

Skip, still in Marsh Harbour awaiting the right weather window, which
looks
to be Tuesday, having migrated from Sunday and Monday, successively...



In your defense and perhaps Joe's, it is easy to get caught up in this
rescue madness. Witness the poor bloke on the 'Satori.'
http://www.westsail.org/satori.html

Rescue services exist to rescue. They need people to practice on just to
hone their skills. I think they actually appreciate some degree of sailor
ineptitude so they can justify their very expensive existence. They sucker
or guile people into being their guinea pigs. Joe fell for it and you
apparently fell for it, too even when there was little real danger to you or
the vessel.


I'll drown rather than allow this sort of rescue. No EPIRB for this sailor.
There are far worse things than dying at sea. And, besides, counting on
being rescued makes a sailor slovenly and stupid.


Wilbur Hubbard

Hi, Wilbur, and list, retitling for thread consistency,

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...
In your defense and perhaps Joe's, it is easy to get caught up in this
rescue madness. Witness the poor bloke on the 'Satori.'
http://www.westsail.org/satori.html

Rescue services exist to rescue. They need people to practice on just to
hone their skills. I think they actually appreciate some degree of sailor
ineptitude so they can justify their very expensive existence. They sucker
or guile people into being their guinea pigs. Joe fell for it and you
apparently fell for it, too even when there was little real danger to you
or the vessel.

Agreed. We were uncomfortable, but we couldn't have drowned if we'd tried
(hard to drown on an otherwise dry shelf! - especially when the only water
getting into the boat came around a tranducer core) :{))

As to falling for it, we were a bit busy, and unaware of our realities at
the time, so didn't argue the point when the CG asked TowBoatUS if they
should deploy an asset; his immediate and firm response was that they
should. From the sound of things inside, it sounded like the boat was
breaking up (it wasn't, just doing some delamination damage as seen in my
logs and pix of the time, right at 3 years ago, now - but the salvors, to a
man, expected to carry us off in body bags; instead, we floated on our own
bottom, and our bilge pumps kept up with the level of water coming in), and
we didn't know if we were in danger of actual sinking. That the TBUS guy
was immediate and firm in his response, and in a far better position of
knowledge and assessment than we didn't lead us to question the evac :{))

However, to your point, two things: First, during our salvage, there was a
helo doing a training mission over us. As I was below removing electronics
as the salvage crew was doing their prep work, I was unaware of it, but you
can see some of the pix they took in my gallery. They had to come all the
way from MIA, so, presumably, it was a valuable exercise. Second, the
elation and joy on the face of every one of the crew when we landed at KWW,
the request for pix and home movies and the like, suggest that we were a
rarity - a chance to do it for real. It obviously was a great rush for
them.



I'll drown rather than allow this sort of rescue. No EPIRB for this
sailor. There are far worse things than dying at sea. And, besides,
counting on being rescued makes a sailor slovenly and stupid.

Heh. We not only didn't "count on" being rescued, didn't have any thought
of asking for an evac. Like Satori, and other stories we've heard of other
evacs while cruising, even if it's just a crew member with a legitimate
injury or other life-threatening issue, if the CG comes out, it's "everyone
off the boat, if we have to hold guns to your heads to enforce it" - and,
like Satori, most boats, if they're not actually sinking, survive to be
found later. Our story ended well; in fact, in so many ways it's difficult
to count (see logs from the time), it was the best thing that could have
happened to us. We're better sailors, and, ironically, financially
enhanced, after all is said and done.


L8R, y'all...

Skip and crew


--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in
its hand
(Richard Bach)

In your defense and perhaps Joe's, it is easy to get caught up in this
rescue madness. Witness the poor bloke on the 'Satori.'http://www.westsail.org/satori.html

Wilbur Hubbard


To comments:

I read the Westsail link. Just another example of old guys not keeping
up on best proceedures and bosting of their past accomplishments,
Lying a hull is DISASTER in any seas larger than your beam. Thy will
be rolled. Heavy weather sailing requirres a progressive set of
stratigies. Lying a hull is great for a nice sunny family outing not a
survival stratgy.


Second, to the arrogant ass last year who criticized me for keeping my
valise SOLAS life raft INSIDE my boat please read the following
fromthe Sarori link:


................Satori was riding out the seas when a second knockdown
occurred. ...The boat went over approximately ninety degrees and again
righted herself. During this knockdown the life raft was torn from its
deck mount. Hitting the water the raft -- as designed -- inflated
immediately and its strobe light began flashing.....


tha is precisly why I keep the valise inside my boat. where It does
not have to suffer blistering 150+F temprature baking in a can on deck
for 10 years.

Also, less prone to theft.

Pennnington Ralph Rexroth

"Bob" wrote in message
...
In your defense and perhaps Joe's, it is easy to get caught up in this
rescue madness. Witness the poor bloke on the
'Satori.'http://www.westsail.org/satori.html

Wilbur Hubbard


To comments:

I read the Westsail link. Just another example of old guys not keeping
up on best proceedures and bosting of their past accomplishments,
Lying a hull is DISASTER in any seas larger than your beam. Thy will
be rolled. Heavy weather sailing requirres a progressive set of
stratigies. Lying a hull is great for a nice sunny family outing not a
survival stratgy.



True, I can see you have also read K. Adlard Coles. Lying ahull is an OK
strategy for most yachts in the early stages of a storm before wind and
fetch build the waves to dimensions so great that the amplitude and period
is conducive to rolling a yacht. However, a lot does depend upon the
underbody and topsides of the yacht so imperiled. The Westsail tends to lie
ahull with the bow somewhat into the wind and forereaching. It doesn't
generally lie sideways to the wind. I would imagine the Westsail lying ahull
would be safer longer than many modern fin keel/spade rudder designs that do
tend to lie ahull sideways. But, even in a Westsail, when push comes to
shove running before the storm would be a safer course of action. A stout
storm jib only would be the order of the day for me if I sailed a Westsail
32. Considering the canoe stern running before large winds and seas would be
quite tenable. Keeping a close watch out for rogue waves would be wise, as
well.



Second, to the arrogant ass last year who criticized me for keeping my
valise SOLAS life raft INSIDE my boat please read the following
fromthe Sarori link:


...............Satori was riding out the seas when a second knockdown
occurred. ...The boat went over approximately ninety degrees and again
righted herself. During this knockdown the life raft was torn from its
deck mount. Hitting the water the raft -- as designed -- inflated
immediately and its strobe light began flashing.....


tha is precisly why I keep the valise inside my boat. where It does
not have to suffer blistering 150+F temprature baking in a can on deck
for 10 years.

Also, less prone to theft.

Pennnington Ralph Rexroth




Keeping a life raft valise in the accommodation is not a bad plan. It has
many advantages and few disadvantages. Among the disadvantages is the
difficulty of rapid and safe deployment especially if the crew were
incapacitated in any way or if the boat were capsized.

But, everything tends to be a compromise of one sort or another in any blue
water yacht. The freedom to choose one's own path is one of the joys of
yachting. Suffering the consequences of ill choices or enjoying the benefits
of wise choices is also part and parcel of freedom of choice.

It seems to me the really wise and cautious blue water sailor would opt for
a positive flotation yacht such as one of the ETAPs over a vessel that sinks
when flooded thus making a life raft required equipment.

My blue water yacht has positive flotation installed by yours truly.


Wilbur Hubbard

On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 11:58:39 -0500, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

Skip, still in Marsh Harbour awaiting the right weather window, which looks
to be Tuesday, having migrated from Sunday and Monday, successively...

Skip, you need to find your way farther south. We were in George Town
two weeks ago, Turks and Caicos one week ago with your friends Jeff
and Kami on Seahawk, south coast of Puerto Rico this week, and St
Croix tonight. The weather has been unbelievably good once south of
T&C.

We're heading for St Martin on Monday, and then more down island later
in the week. Our goal is to be in Grenada in a couple of weeks and
then slowly work our way back north.

http://tinyurl.com/waynebspottrack

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 13 Feb 2010 11:58:39 -0500, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

Skip, still in Marsh Harbour awaiting the right weather window, which
looks
to be Tuesday, having migrated from Sunday and Monday, successively...

Skip, you need to find your way farther south. We were in George Town
two weeks ago, Turks and Caicos one week ago with your friends Jeff
and Kami on Seahawk, south coast of Puerto Rico this week, and St
Croix tonight. The weather has been unbelievably good once south of
T&C.

We're heading for St Martin on Monday, and then more down island later
in the week. Our goal is to be in Grenada in a couple of weeks and
then slowly work our way back north.

http://tinyurl.com/waynebspottrack

Hi, Wayne, and all, retitling this as the thread wanders...

Well, the time approacheth, it appeareth, as the weather window looks
favorable for this week.

We'd originally thought to do Fleeming and Ship's channels, but are now
looking at going around Eleuthera, the better to not have to deal with
daylight issues with the channels (timing is everything!) and, by my
calculation, anyway, making for a shorter trip in the end. Current weather
has both routes very similar in winds and waves, so, aside from no place to
hide, it's a bit of a coin toss, but without having to pick our way, I
expect the trip would be quite a bit faster outside.

Our current thinking is to stop for a while in GT, then work our way south,
perhaps to the T&Cs, even, before working our way back north again as the
weather warms, thence to head south again as it cools. Because we don't
expect to be back this way in the boat before we get off it, we really don't
want to just hurry for the sake of getting to the EC, and, so, may take
another year or more after the Bahamas to get to the Virgins (well, US and
British - we'll visit the PR ones as well) and then south.

Our thought has always been to work our way along the TP (not toilet paper -
Thorny Path) during the fall and winter to avoid the headwinds, taking
advantage of the frequent northers. Wayne, your comments seem to confirm
our thoughts. Since you're posting, I presume you have internet. I know
you've got a system similar in capability to ours; what's been your
experience with open sites along the way down?

L8R, y'all

Skip and crew
PS workng on a log for our time since we got here; stand by :{))

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog
and/or http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power to
make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in
its hand
(Richard Bach)

On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 10:08:07 -0500, "Flying Pig"
wrote:

Our thought has always been to work our way along the TP (not toilet paper -
Thorny Path) during the fall and winter to avoid the headwinds, taking
advantage of the frequent northers. Wayne, your comments seem to confirm
our thoughts. Since you're posting, I presume you have internet. I know
you've got a system similar in capability to ours; what's been your
experience with open sites along the way down?

Our WiFi system is working just fine but frankly we've been a bit
disapointed in the number and quality of open sites. It seems that
more and more people are encrypting their access points these days,
and some harbors like Nassau are inundated with high powered
commercial sites trying to draw in business, and swamping everything
else in the process. Right now we are at a marina in Marigot Bay, St
Martin which charges 7 Euros/day but it is the only thing available.

We had a great stay in Turks and Caicos, nice weather and nice people.
Their is a good place to stay known as the "annex". Call Simon at
South Side Marina on channel 16 for details. He runs a cruiser net
every morning at 8:30 and is very helpful. You can clear customs and
immigration at South Side Marina with no hassel at all.

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/7...stostmarti.jpg

http://tinyurl.com/waynebspottrack