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Old June 14th 09, 09:36 PM posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Default Lucaya, Grand Bahama Island to Saint Simons Island GA April 18-19

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:45:20 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Brian Whatcott" wrote in message
. ..
Responding to abusive, wrong-headed posts from alias-Wilbur is very much
like banging one's head against a wall for fun - but I'll do it any way.

Radar output is the transmit power from the magnetron.
This pulse lasts 1 microsecond or less, and can be repeated 1000 times per
second. 2.2 kW power for say 1 microsecond X 1000 per second gives AVERAGE
power of 2.2 watts - but there is the processor, the display etc., etc so
20 to 30 watts while transmitting is in the ball park.
A coupla amps in fact.

I expect there was SOMETHING correct in alias-Wilbur's post, but I didn't
look at it that closely.



If you aren't transmitting you aren't using radar. Doh! And, if you have
working radar you are REQUIRED by the COLREGS to have it on and operational
at ALL TIMES that you are under way.

RULE 7
RISK OF COLISION

(a) Every vessel shall use all available means appropriate to the
prevailing circumstances and conditions to determine if risk of collision
exists. If there is any doubt such risk shall be deemed to exist.

(b) Proper use shall be made of radar equipment if fitted and
operational, including long-range scanning to obtain early warning of risk
of collision and radar plotting or equivalent systematic observation of
detected objects.

(note: proper use does not mean turning the damned thing off to conserver
your battery power!!!)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We all know manufacturers fudge their stats to make it look like their
products are not the power hogs they really are. I refuse to believe the
claim that Rube made about their radar set only using 2.1 amps. It's
obviously way understated. Hell, the LCD display alone on my laptop draws
about that much power. The power brick outputs 19 volts DC at 4.5 amps. The
radar set is a computer, too. It has a processor and that antenna spins
inside the dome so it has a motor and motors draw lots of amperage. We all
know that.

The bottom line is my original statement stands. Radar sets for sailboats
draw way too much power to be viable unless you run your motor or a genset
all the friggin' time.

Wilbur Hubbard


I operate my RADAR in full compliance with all applicable laws and
regulations, including the ones you cite above. I have only two
sources of power for charging my batteries. One is the little
alternator in my 9.9 hp outboard. The other is a 20 watt solar panel.
I NEVER connect to shore power (Don't even carry the cable) or take
batteries ashore to charge them.

It draws what I (and the manufacturer, and the laws of physics) say it
draws.

The outboard, at IDLE keeps up with the RADAR with plenty left over to
run VHF, GPS, Wind instrument, etc.

You can't hear my outboard running at idle from 4 feet away.

I usually don't need to run the outboard at all anyway. The puny solar
panel plays catchup very nicely during days at anchor. I do run the
motor during periods of low visibility and at night to both make up
for the lower output from the solar panel, and to give me an extra
margin of safety if a dimwit in a center console comes barreling
through the fog as they often do.

I have 2 group 27 AGM batteries, and have no trouble keeping them
fully charged.


  #42   Report Post  
Old June 14th 09, 09:46 PM posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Posts: 2,869
Default Lucaya, Grand Bahama Island to Saint Simons Island GA April 18-19

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:45:20 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Brian Whatcott" wrote in message
.. .
Responding to abusive, wrong-headed posts from alias-Wilbur is very much
like banging one's head against a wall for fun - but I'll do it any way.

Radar output is the transmit power from the magnetron.
This pulse lasts 1 microsecond or less, and can be repeated 1000 times
per
second. 2.2 kW power for say 1 microsecond X 1000 per second gives
AVERAGE
power of 2.2 watts - but there is the processor, the display etc., etc
so
20 to 30 watts while transmitting is in the ball park.
A coupla amps in fact.

I expect there was SOMETHING correct in alias-Wilbur's post, but I
didn't
look at it that closely.



If you aren't transmitting you aren't using radar. Doh! And, if you have
working radar you are REQUIRED by the COLREGS to have it on and
operational
at ALL TIMES that you are under way.

RULE 7
RISK OF COLISION

(a) Every vessel shall use all available means appropriate to the
prevailing circumstances and conditions to determine if risk of collision
exists. If there is any doubt such risk shall be deemed to exist.

(b) Proper use shall be made of radar equipment if fitted and
operational, including long-range scanning to obtain early warning of risk
of collision and radar plotting or equivalent systematic observation of
detected objects.

(note: proper use does not mean turning the damned thing off to conserver
your battery power!!!)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We all know manufacturers fudge their stats to make it look like their
products are not the power hogs they really are. I refuse to believe the
claim that Rube made about their radar set only using 2.1 amps. It's
obviously way understated. Hell, the LCD display alone on my laptop draws
about that much power. The power brick outputs 19 volts DC at 4.5 amps.
The
radar set is a computer, too. It has a processor and that antenna spins
inside the dome so it has a motor and motors draw lots of amperage. We all
know that.

The bottom line is my original statement stands. Radar sets for sailboats
draw way too much power to be viable unless you run your motor or a genset
all the friggin' time.

Wilbur Hubbard


I operate my RADAR in full compliance with all applicable laws and
regulations, including the ones you cite above. I have only two
sources of power for charging my batteries. One is the little
alternator in my 9.9 hp outboard. The other is a 20 watt solar panel.
I NEVER connect to shore power (Don't even carry the cable) or take
batteries ashore to charge them.

It draws what I (and the manufacturer, and the laws of physics) say it
draws.

The outboard, at IDLE keeps up with the RADAR with plenty left over to
run VHF, GPS, Wind instrument, etc.

You can't hear my outboard running at idle from 4 feet away.

I usually don't need to run the outboard at all anyway. The puny solar
panel plays catchup very nicely during days at anchor. I do run the
motor during periods of low visibility and at night to both make up
for the lower output from the solar panel, and to give me an extra
margin of safety if a dimwit in a center console comes barreling
through the fog as they often do.

I have 2 group 27 AGM batteries, and have no trouble keeping them
fully charged.




At idle your 9.9 outboard (if it's a Honda or Yamaha) puts out all of about
half and amp at maybe 12.5 volts. It will barely charge a battery at that
voltage. Photovoltaics rated at 20 watts are lucky to put out 15 under
optimal conditions (this means cold temps and zero angle on the sun with
clear sky.) 15 watts at 15 volts which is what you need to charge a batter
is about one amp.

You, sir, are a LIAR! Your piddling little charging system will not run your
radar for long and keep the batteries charged at the same time.

Wilbur Hubbard


  #43   Report Post  
Old June 14th 09, 11:18 PM posted to rec.boats.cruising
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,966
Default Lucaya, Grand Bahama Island to Saint Simons Island GA April 18-19

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:46:51 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 14:45:20 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

"Brian Whatcott" wrote in message
. ..
Responding to abusive, wrong-headed posts from alias-Wilbur is very much
like banging one's head against a wall for fun - but I'll do it any way.

Radar output is the transmit power from the magnetron.
This pulse lasts 1 microsecond or less, and can be repeated 1000 times
per
second. 2.2 kW power for say 1 microsecond X 1000 per second gives
AVERAGE
power of 2.2 watts - but there is the processor, the display etc., etc
so
20 to 30 watts while transmitting is in the ball park.
A coupla amps in fact.

I expect there was SOMETHING correct in alias-Wilbur's post, but I
didn't
look at it that closely.


If you aren't transmitting you aren't using radar. Doh! And, if you have
working radar you are REQUIRED by the COLREGS to have it on and
operational
at ALL TIMES that you are under way.

RULE 7
RISK OF COLISION

(a) Every vessel shall use all available means appropriate to the
prevailing circumstances and conditions to determine if risk of collision
exists. If there is any doubt such risk shall be deemed to exist.

(b) Proper use shall be made of radar equipment if fitted and
operational, including long-range scanning to obtain early warning of risk
of collision and radar plotting or equivalent systematic observation of
detected objects.

(note: proper use does not mean turning the damned thing off to conserver
your battery power!!!)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We all know manufacturers fudge their stats to make it look like their
products are not the power hogs they really are. I refuse to believe the
claim that Rube made about their radar set only using 2.1 amps. It's
obviously way understated. Hell, the LCD display alone on my laptop draws
about that much power. The power brick outputs 19 volts DC at 4.5 amps.
The
radar set is a computer, too. It has a processor and that antenna spins
inside the dome so it has a motor and motors draw lots of amperage. We all
know that.

The bottom line is my original statement stands. Radar sets for sailboats
draw way too much power to be viable unless you run your motor or a genset
all the friggin' time.

Wilbur Hubbard


I operate my RADAR in full compliance with all applicable laws and
regulations, including the ones you cite above. I have only two
sources of power for charging my batteries. One is the little
alternator in my 9.9 hp outboard. The other is a 20 watt solar panel.
I NEVER connect to shore power (Don't even carry the cable) or take
batteries ashore to charge them.

It draws what I (and the manufacturer, and the laws of physics) say it
draws.

The outboard, at IDLE keeps up with the RADAR with plenty left over to
run VHF, GPS, Wind instrument, etc.

You can't hear my outboard running at idle from 4 feet away.

I usually don't need to run the outboard at all anyway. The puny solar
panel plays catchup very nicely during days at anchor. I do run the
motor during periods of low visibility and at night to both make up
for the lower output from the solar panel, and to give me an extra
margin of safety if a dimwit in a center console comes barreling
through the fog as they often do.

I have 2 group 27 AGM batteries, and have no trouble keeping them
fully charged.




At idle your 9.9 outboard (if it's a Honda or Yamaha) puts out all of about
half and amp at maybe 12.5 volts. It will barely charge a battery at that
voltage.


Incorrect. The output of the alternator is not linear from zero to
full throttle. Both I and my Fluke say you are wrong.

Photovoltaics rated at 20 watts are lucky to put out 15 under
optimal conditions (this means cold temps and zero angle on the sun with
clear sky.) 15 watts at 15 volts which is what you need to charge a batter
is about one amp.


Incorrect, as proved by my own measurements, taken under actual
operating conditions.


You, sir, are a LIAR! Your piddling little charging system will not run your
radar for long and keep the batteries charged at the same time.


Then I guess we'll have to declare it a MIRACLE!

Actually, only YOU will have to declare it a miracle, as I am a firm
believer in science, not miracles.

  #44   Report Post  
Old June 15th 09, 12:00 AM posted to rec.boats.cruising
Bob Bob is offline
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,300
Default Lucaya, Grand Bahama Island to Saint Simons Island GA April 18-19


Radar needs a dedicated radar operator.
Skippy nor anybody else can competently handle radar and sailing at the same
time. Those are the facts.

Radar, for a lone hander or shorthander like Skippy, is a dangerous
distraction and nothing more than that. It invites trouble as it's used as
an excuse to go where you shouldn't be going in the first place. Lose the
radar!

Wilbur Hubbard



My dearest wilbur:

I will be completing teh 5 day RADAR Unlimited endorcment for my AB
rate/100 ton license/STCW-95 at the end of next hitch. I will then
feel qulified to ask you questoins on such technology. I would not
want to insult your intelligence with lubberly and ill-constructed
questions.

Bob


  #45   Report Post  
Old June 15th 09, 01:07 AM posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Posts: 813
Default Lucaya, Grand Bahama Island to Saint Simons Island GA April 18-19

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
"Brian Whatcott" wrote in message
...
Responding to abusive, wrong-headed posts from alias-Wilbur is very much
like banging one's head against a wall for fun - but I'll do it any way.

Radar output is the transmit power from the magnetron.
This pulse lasts 1 microsecond or less, and can be repeated 1000 times per
second. 2.2 kW power for say 1 microsecond X 1000 per second gives AVERAGE
power of 2.2 watts - but there is the processor, the display etc., etc so
20 to 30 watts while transmitting is in the ball park.
A coupla amps in fact.

I expect there was SOMETHING correct in alias-Wilbur's post, but I didn't
look at it that closely.



If you aren't transmitting you aren't using radar. Doh! And, if you have
working radar you are REQUIRED by the COLREGS to have it on and operational
at ALL TIMES that you are under way.

RULE 7
RISK OF COLISION

(a) Every vessel shall use all available means appropriate to the
prevailing circumstances and conditions to determine if risk of collision
exists. If there is any doubt such risk shall be deemed to exist.

(b) Proper use shall be made of radar equipment if fitted and
operational, including long-range scanning to obtain early warning of risk
of collision and radar plotting or equivalent systematic observation of
detected objects.

(note: proper use does not mean turning the damned thing off to conserver
your battery power!!!)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

We all know manufacturers fudge their stats to make it look like their
products are not the power hogs they really are. I refuse to believe the
claim that Rube made about their radar set only using 2.1 amps. It's
obviously way understated. Hell, the LCD display alone on my laptop draws
about that much power. The power brick outputs 19 volts DC at 4.5 amps. The
radar set is a computer, too. It has a processor and that antenna spins
inside the dome so it has a motor and motors draw lots of amperage. We all
know that.

The bottom line is my original statement stands. Radar sets for sailboats
draw way too much power to be viable unless you run your motor or a genset
all the friggin' time.

Wilbur Hubbard


It is usually considered smart to stop, when you've dug yourself a
hole....
A radar on standby keeps the magnetron warmed up: periodic
scans for relatively slow moving water traffic would constitute proper
usage: but what do I know? Oh yes, I have a radar endorsement,
and used to tend the radar on an H bomber base.

Brian W


  #46   Report Post  
Old June 15th 09, 01:20 AM posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Posts: 576
Default Lucaya, Grand Bahama Island to Saint Simons Island GA April 18-19

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 13:24:29 -0500, Brian Whatcott
wrote:

Responding to abusive, wrong-headed posts from alias-Wilbur is very much
like banging one's head against a wall for fun - but I'll do it any way.

Radar output is the transmit power from the magnetron.
This pulse lasts 1 microsecond or less, and can be repeated 1000 times
per second. 2.2 kW power for say 1 microsecond X 1000 per second gives
AVERAGE power of 2.2 watts - but there is the processor, the display
etc., etc so 20 to 30 watts while transmitting is in the ball park.
A coupla amps in fact.

I expect there was SOMETHING correct in alias-Wilbur's post, but I
didn't look at it that closely.

Brian W


When carrying on a discussion with Willie always remember:

"In view of the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it
seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity."

Willie proves the statement as his intelligence is obviously limited
while his stupidity appears to be unlimited.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
  #47   Report Post  
Old June 15th 09, 02:30 AM posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Posts: 4,966
Default Lucaya, Grand Bahama Island to Saint Simons Island GA April 18-19

On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 07:20:51 +0700, Bruce In Bangkok
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 13:24:29 -0500, Brian Whatcott
wrote:

Responding to abusive, wrong-headed posts from alias-Wilbur is very much
like banging one's head against a wall for fun - but I'll do it any way.

Radar output is the transmit power from the magnetron.
This pulse lasts 1 microsecond or less, and can be repeated 1000 times
per second. 2.2 kW power for say 1 microsecond X 1000 per second gives
AVERAGE power of 2.2 watts - but there is the processor, the display
etc., etc so 20 to 30 watts while transmitting is in the ball park.
A coupla amps in fact.

I expect there was SOMETHING correct in alias-Wilbur's post, but I
didn't look at it that closely.

Brian W


When carrying on a discussion with Willie always remember:

"In view of the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it
seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity."

Willie proves the statement as his intelligence is obviously limited
while his stupidity appears to be unlimited.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


How many amps do you suppose his stupidity draws. Bear in mind that it
is never on standby...

  #48   Report Post  
Old June 15th 09, 03:09 AM posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Posts: 2,536
Default Lucaya, Grand Bahama Island to Saint Simons Island GA April 18-19

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:00:52 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:

I will be completing teh 5 day RADAR Unlimited endorcment for my AB
rate/100 ton license/STCW-95 at the end of next hitch


Can you get the radar endorsement by passing the test or do you need
the 5 days of school also?
  #49   Report Post  
Old June 15th 09, 08:19 AM posted to rec.boats.cruising
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First recorded activity by BoatBanter: Dec 2008
Posts: 576
Default Lucaya, Grand Bahama Island to Saint Simons Island GA April 18-19

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:30:14 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 07:20:51 +0700, Bruce In Bangkok
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 13:24:29 -0500, Brian Whatcott
wrote:

Responding to abusive, wrong-headed posts from alias-Wilbur is very much
like banging one's head against a wall for fun - but I'll do it any way.

Radar output is the transmit power from the magnetron.
This pulse lasts 1 microsecond or less, and can be repeated 1000 times
per second. 2.2 kW power for say 1 microsecond X 1000 per second gives
AVERAGE power of 2.2 watts - but there is the processor, the display
etc., etc so 20 to 30 watts while transmitting is in the ball park.
A coupla amps in fact.

I expect there was SOMETHING correct in alias-Wilbur's post, but I
didn't look at it that closely.

Brian W


When carrying on a discussion with Willie always remember:

"In view of the fact that God limited the intelligence of man, it
seems unfair that he did not also limit his stupidity."

Willie proves the statement as his intelligence is obviously limited
while his stupidity appears to be unlimited.
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


How many amps do you suppose his stupidity draws. Bear in mind that it
is never on standby...

He is certainly in the Kilowatt range, if not the Megawatt.....


Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)
  #50   Report Post  
Old June 15th 09, 05:29 PM posted to rec.boats.cruising
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Posts: 1
Default Lucaya, Grand Bahama Island to Saint Simons Island GA April 18-19

On Jun 14, 8:09*pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:00:52 -0700 (PDT), Bob
wrote:

I will be completing teh 5 day RADAR Unlimited endorcment for my AB
rate/100 ton license/STCW-95 at the end of next hitch


Can you get the radar endorsement by passing the test or do you need
the 5 days of school also?



Good question.............. I don know fur sur.. My feeling is its one
that reaqurites the course/cert. From what I hear its a ourse where yo
actually learn somthing. They are however designed for the more
commercial sized units ie "RADAR UNLIMITED"
Prices run about $500-900 with $700 about average.

Ill keep ya posted although I got a new girl friend in portland and I
might want to spend the 14 days with her..... ya just dont want to let
those 28 yo alone too long. Lets see RADAR class or get layed by a
cute bycle ridding tree hugging granola girl...................



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