wrote:
On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 10:06:04 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

wrote in message
news
On Wed, 15 Apr 2009 22:30:16 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Capt. JG wrote:
"cavelamb" wrote in message
news Department of Homeland Security, of all things...

So other than Bill of Sale and fill out the section on the back of
CG1270
(Certificate of Documentation) and of course, paying all the fees, what
else????


Depending on where you live, state/county sales tax.

What about the title search?
Without a title, of course...
Federal Documentation replaces title for all purposes.


Does it? I didn't know that. My insurance company didn't have a problem with
just the Fed ID, so I didn't really think about it after that.

Federal Documentation supercedes any other titles previously issued.
It is recognized pretty much worldwide as proof of ownership, and a
means of discovering liens.

I am a little rusty on this, but I think that if you document a
previously titled vessel, you surrender the title as part of the
documentation process.


Looks like we are going ahead with this tomorrow.

Welcome back to boaters poverty!

On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 15:56:36 +0200, "Edgar"
wrote:


"cavelamb" wrote in message
...
Edgar wrote:
"cavelamb" wrote in message
news Department of Homeland Security, of all things...

So other than Bill of Sale and fill out the section on the back of
CG1270
(Certificate of Documentation) and of course, paying all the fees, what
else????

Make sure all the documents are notarized. If the boat is going into
Europe also get them with apostille as European govts. are very keen on
this when you try to register the boat with them and if a boat comes into
Europe without apostille all the documents will have to be returned to
the U.S. State where they were issued for that to be done..
Don't know if you are buying or selling but if you are buying it is
essential to get documented proof of title and that there are no
outstanding financial issues connected with the boat.

Thanks Edgar, Buying.

Europe? Not in my wildest dreams, unless it goes over as deck cargo on a
freighter. (Hmmm...)

Cuba, maybe, if it does open up. Otherwise just coastal US waters.

The documented proof of ownership would be the CG1270?

Owner would fill out the stuff on the back (like a state title) and send
it
back to the Coasties, who would transfer it and send it back to me.
At least that's the way I read it. The current owner has a current
certificate,
just renewed a couple of months ago.

But the real question is how to determine if there are any outstanding
liens.
(Great minds, Edgar!)

I've been through most of the stuff here...
(National Vessel Documentation Center)
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/nvdcfaq.asp#08

They can do a fax title search, but don't show anything about liens.
That part has me a bit concerned.

It's not a great lot of money by government standards, but it's a lot by
mine.

The Bill of Sale is your proof that you bought the boat. that document is
CG-1340.
However, it seems to me that the document itself is no proof that the other
guy had the right to sell it to you, nor does it in itself confirm that you
are not buying some debts that the boat has got hanging on it.
If you use a broker then that is his job to check these things, but I do
not know what the method is of doing so in USA.
I would guess that the coastguard are the people to ask about this because
they either do it or know how it is done. I know this because if you take a
boat out of US jurisdiction as I did you can get what they call their 'gold
plated' certificate of removal from US registry and they told me, when i
aked about this, that they never issue such a certificate without checking
that the boat has no financial ties going with it..
.
I can't comment on U.S. practices but over here the usual practice is:

1. a true copy of the bill of sale received by the seller at the time
he bought the boat as evidence of ownership.
2. a bill of sale issued to buyer.
3. a receipt for monies paid by buyer.
4. A certified statement that boat is unencumbered by any debts or
liens.
5. Letter of de-registration issued by the entity who had issued the
boat's registration.

These would be the minimum documentation acceptable and additional
documentation might be required depending on local regulations.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Bruce In Bangkok wrote:

I can't comment on U.S. practices but over here the usual practice is:

1. a true copy of the bill of sale received by the seller at the time
he bought the boat as evidence of ownership.
2. a bill of sale issued to buyer.
3. a receipt for monies paid by buyer.
4. A certified statement that boat is unencumbered by any debts or
liens.
5. Letter of de-registration issued by the entity who had issued the
boat's registration.

These would be the minimum documentation acceptable and additional
documentation might be required depending on local regulations.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


I think you hit it on all but the last.
And that one would be right if the buyer intended to procure a state title.

I appreciate your #1 (above), Bruce. I had not seen that one, nor thought
of it myself. I'll include that in the list. In return, I'll buy you a
beer if you ever show up here.

I'm planning to do all this at the bank rather than the marina (!).
Thats so all statements and copies of the statements can be notarized.


Here is what I've turned up...

My only remaining question is if the C of D transfers ownership or if the
new owner needs to fill out a new application.

A peek on the back of the C of D ought to answer that one.


Research:

Application For Initial Issue, Exchange, Or Replacement Of Certificate Of
Documentation; Redocumentation (CG-1258)
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/forms/cg1258.pdf


Bill of Sale CG-1340
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/forms/cg1340.pdf


Certificate of Documentation is CD-1270 (referenced below)


From the USCG NVDC FAQ:

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/nvdcfaq.asp#24

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I SELL MY DOCUMENTED VESSEL?

When the sale is finalized you may complete a U.S. Coast Guard Bill of Sale
(CG-1340) or complete the “Sale or Transfer of Vessel” section on the reverse of
the Certificate of Documentation (CG-1270). Documentation forms, fee schedules,
and instructions are available for downloading on this web site. If there is an
outstanding mortgage, the mortgagee ( lender) should complete a Satisfaction of
Mortgage. The vessel cannot be removed from documentation with an outstanding
mortgage.




Instructions: http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/nvdcinstr.asp

REV 10/2007

GENERAL GUIDELINES FOR EXCHANGE or RETURN TO DOCUMENTATION

General forms only. Contact this office for vessel specific issues. Please see
the regulations at 46 CFR Part 67.

A COPY MADE ON ANYTHING OTHER THAN PLAIN PAPER WILL BE REJECTED. THIN THERMO-FAX
PAPER FADES WITH TIME AND IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

CG-1258: Application for Initial Issue, Exchange or Replacement of Certificate
of Documentation; Re-documentation - Completed by new OWNER(s); submit an
original or a copy of form, CG-1258.

CG-1340: Bill of Sale – One original or one copy of the instrument signed by or
on behalf of all persons transferring an interest in the vessel. Signature(s)
of seller(s) must be acknowledged by a notary public. Altered instruments may
be rejected. A copy of the instrument will be returned.
CG-1270: Certificate of Documentation - Interest in vessel may be transferred by
last documented owner(s) on reverse of original or copy of the Certificate of
Documentation. Signature(s) of seller(s) must be acknowledged before a notary
public. Altered documents may be rejected.

Satisfaction of Mortgage or Form CG-4593: Application, Consent and Approval for
Exchange - If the vessel is subject to a mortgage, submit one original or one
copy Satisfaction of Mortgage (completed by mortgagee, NOT vessel owner and
properly acknowledged); OR, one original or one copy of Form CG-4593 signed by
both the owner and mortgagee. A copy of the Satisfaction of Mortgage will be
returned. A copy of the Form, CG-4593 will not be returned.

Chain of Title - Simplified Method:* - For vessels returning to documentation,
ownership may be established from state title OR state or foreign registration.
A copy of the title or registration must be provided WITH the original or copy
of bill(s) of sale from the owner shown on this paperwork to the applicant. For
vessels under a foreign registry similar to U.S. Documentation, a copy of the
registration and evidence of removal from that registry must be provided.

*Simplified method may not be used if seeking a Coastwise endorsement for a
vessel over 200 ITC gross tons. Complete chain of title from the last documented
owner and

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 00:15:52 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

Bruce In Bangkok wrote:

I can't comment on U.S. practices but over here the usual practice is:

1. a true copy of the bill of sale received by the seller at the time
he bought the boat as evidence of ownership.
2. a bill of sale issued to buyer.
3. a receipt for monies paid by buyer.
4. A certified statement that boat is unencumbered by any debts or
liens.
5. Letter of de-registration issued by the entity who had issued the
boat's registration.

These would be the minimum documentation acceptable and additional
documentation might be required depending on local regulations.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)


I think you hit it on all but the last.
And that one would be right if the buyer intended to procure a state title.

Over here we don't have "state" registration :-)

I recently converted a boat to Thai flag and I had to show only proof
of ownership, proof of payment of import duties and taxes, and a copy
of the de-registration certificate canceling the old registration.

I appreciate your #1 (above), Bruce. I had not seen that one, nor thought
of it myself. I'll include that in the list. In return, I'll buy you a
beer if you ever show up here.

I'm planning to do all this at the bank rather than the marina (!).
Thats so all statements and copies of the statements can be notarized.


Here is what I've turned up...

My only remaining question is if the C of D transfers ownership or if the
new owner needs to fill out a new application.

A peek on the back of the C of D ought to answer that one.


Research:

Application For Initial Issue, Exchange, Or Replacement Of Certificate Of
Documentation; Redocumentation (CG-1258)
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/forms/cg1258.pdf


Bill of Sale CG-1340
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/forms/cg1340.pdf


Certificate of Documentation is CD-1270 (referenced below)


From the USCG NVDC FAQ:

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/nvdcfaq.asp#24

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I SELL MY DOCUMENTED VESSEL?

When the sale is finalized you may complete a U.S. Coast Guard Bill of Sale
(CG-1340) or complete the “Sale or Transfer of Vessel” section on the reverse of
the Certificate of Documentation (CG-1270). Documentation forms, fee schedules,
and instructions are available for downloading on this web site. If there is an
outstanding mortgage, the mortgagee ( lender) should complete a Satisfaction of
Mortgage. The vessel cannot be removed from documentation with an outstanding
mortgage.




Instructions: http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/nvdcinstr.asp

REV 10/2007

GENERAL GUIDELINES FOR EXCHANGE or RETURN TO DOCUMENTATION

General forms only. Contact this office for vessel specific issues. Please see
the regulations at 46 CFR Part 67.

A COPY MADE ON ANYTHING OTHER THAN PLAIN PAPER WILL BE REJECTED. THIN THERMO-FAX
PAPER FADES WITH TIME AND IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

CG-1258: Application for Initial Issue, Exchange or Replacement of Certificate
of Documentation; Re-documentation - Completed by new OWNER(s); submit an
original or a copy of form, CG-1258.

CG-1340: Bill of Sale – One original or one copy of the instrument signed by or
on behalf of all persons transferring an interest in the vessel. Signature(s)
of seller(s) must be acknowledged by a notary public. Altered instruments may
be rejected. A copy of the instrument will be returned.
CG-1270: Certificate of Documentation - Interest in vessel may be transferred by
last documented owner(s) on reverse of original or copy of the Certificate of
Documentation. Signature(s) of seller(s) must be acknowledged before a notary
public. Altered documents may be rejected.

Satisfaction of Mortgage or Form CG-4593: Application, Consent and Approval for
Exchange - If the vessel is subject to a mortgage, submit one original or one
copy Satisfaction of Mortgage (completed by mortgagee, NOT vessel owner and
properly acknowledged); OR, one original or one copy of Form CG-4593 signed by
both the owner and mortgagee. A copy of the Satisfaction of Mortgage will be
returned. A copy of the Form, CG-4593 will not be returned.

Chain of Title - Simplified Method:* - For vessels returning to documentation,
ownership may be established from state title OR state or foreign registration.
A copy of the title or registration must be provided WITH the original or copy
of bill(s) of sale from the owner shown on this paperwork to the applicant. For
vessels under a foreign registry similar to U.S. Documentation, a copy of the
registration and evidence of removal from that registry must be provided.

*Simplified method may not be used if seeking a Coastwise endorsement for a
vessel over 200 ITC gross tons. Complete chain of title from the last documented
owner and
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 00:15:52 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:



I think you hit it on all but the last.
And that one would be right if the buyer intended to procure a state title.


After you have completed the process, you'll realize that you spent
way too much time over-thinking this. It's a pretty straightforward
procedure. The trickest part of the whole thing would be the measuring
of a boat that had never been documented previously. The rest is cake.
If you have any questions, CALL the documentation center. They are
very friendly and helpful. They really know their business, and they
make it as pleasant as possible. Not what you would expect from a govt
agency, but they are an example of how ALL customer service would be
in a perfect world.

For better or worst, for richer or poorer, it's a done deal.

While some of our gentle readers will think it somewhat pathetic,
that was the biggest check I've ever written.

But she's completely paid for - no mortgage - all mine now.
No mortgage burning party to look forward to - and couldn't afford
on right now anyway.


All documents were notarized.
Also got bills of sale and documentation papers all the way back to
the first owner (I'm third).

And the original builders certificate.

One step closer to the coast...

In the mean time, we've 98,000 acres of lake water to shake down in.

On Tue, 21 Apr 2009 18:36:32 -0500, cavelamb
wrote:

For better or worst, for richer or poorer, it's a done deal.

While some of our gentle readers will think it somewhat pathetic,
that was the biggest check I've ever written.

But she's completely paid for - no mortgage - all mine now.
No mortgage burning party to look forward to - and couldn't afford
on right now anyway.


All documents were notarized.
Also got bills of sale and documentation papers all the way back to
the first owner (I'm third).

And the original builders certificate.

One step closer to the coast...

In the mean time, we've 98,000 acres of lake water to shake down in.





Congratulations!

"cavelamb" wrote in message
m...
For better or worst, for richer or poorer, it's a done deal.

While some of our gentle readers will think it somewhat pathetic,
that was the biggest check I've ever written.

But she's completely paid for - no mortgage - all mine now.
No mortgage burning party to look forward to - and couldn't afford
on right now anyway.


All documents were notarized.
Also got bills of sale and documentation papers all the way back to
the first owner (I'm third).

And the original builders certificate.

One step closer to the coast...

In the mean time, we've 98,000 acres of lake water to shake down in.

Way to go!!

It is a big scary writing large checks. My biggest wasn't my boat... a
house, but there's little chance of the house sinking. :-}

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Capt. JG wrote:
"cavelamb" wrote in message
m...
For better or worst, for richer or poorer, it's a done deal.

While some of our gentle readers will think it somewhat pathetic,
that was the biggest check I've ever written.

But she's completely paid for - no mortgage - all mine now.
No mortgage burning party to look forward to - and couldn't afford
on right now anyway.


All documents were notarized.
Also got bills of sale and documentation papers all the way back to
the first owner (I'm third).

And the original builders certificate.

One step closer to the coast...

In the mean time, we've 98,000 acres of lake water to shake down in.

Way to go!!

It is a big scary writing large checks. My biggest wasn't my boat... a
house, but there's little chance of the house sinking. :-}


I've bought a house before but it was only a few thou down and $800 a month.
This was a bunch of boat units.

It felt good, though.
Kind of like the first time I gave my Mom a grand for her birthday.
"Grown up"? Does that make sense?

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
"cavelamb" wrote in message
m...
For better or worst, for richer or poorer, it's a done deal.

While some of our gentle readers will think it somewhat pathetic,
that was the biggest check I've ever written.

But she's completely paid for - no mortgage - all mine now.
No mortgage burning party to look forward to - and couldn't afford
on right now anyway.


All documents were notarized.
Also got bills of sale and documentation papers all the way back to
the first owner (I'm third).

And the original builders certificate.

One step closer to the coast...

In the mean time, we've 98,000 acres of lake water to shake down in.

Way to go!!

It is a big scary writing large checks. My biggest wasn't my boat... a
house, but there's little chance of the house sinking. :-}

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com


I suppose it is a "big" scary, but I was trying to type "bit" scary.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com