Ben Atkins wrote in
:

On Apr 5, 9:46*am, Geoff Schultz wrote:
jeff wrote :

Ben Atkins wrote:
Hello Everybody,

My name is Benjamin Atkins and I represent Atkins & Hoyle Ltd. ...

snip inappropriate commercial content

Some years ago I had an extremely negative experience with them, to
the point of specifying on my new boat that I would not accept it
if it had any Atkins & Hoyle gear.

It does not surprise me that they now show a total disregard of the
non-commercial status of this group.

While I won't disagree about the matter of commercial posts to this
group
,
I've had 2 sets of A&H davits on my boat and find them extremely
robust.
*
My first set was undersized and I replaced them with heavier duty
ones.
*I
haven't seen any others that I'd recommend and would *install them
agai
n in
a heartbeat.

-- Geoffwww.GeoffSchultz.org

Fair enough. I was unaware of the rules regarding vendors in this
group. In some other forums, they have a place on the board for
professionals offering advice and opinions. I tried to make it clear
that anything that I post might be influenced by my position at Atkins
& Hoyle Ltd. In any case, I will walk this line more carefully in the
future.

Geoff, I took a look at your site and have to say that I hope that one
day I can have Trip Report Index like yours. Very nice setup of the
2000 davits, a perfect example of how to build a proper bridle as
well. May I use some of those pictures for my site?

--Benjamin Atkins
www.atkinshoyle.com

You're more than welcome to use them, but let me take some of the more
recent changes that have been made. The photos on the site are over 2
years old and I've improved upon it.

Regarding the commercial postings: It always amazes me how there are
members of this group and others who think there are some official rules
which dictate what can be posted here. I've certainly never see any such
thing, and I used to run an ISP. There may be suggestions, but no rules.
This is the Internet...

If there were rules, you wouldn't see copyrighted manuals and software
posted to news groups. I agree that I don't want to see these news
groups filled up with commercial posting.

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

Geoff Schultz wrote:
....
Regarding the commercial postings: It always amazes me how there are
members of this group and others who think there are some official rules
which dictate what can be posted here. I've certainly never see any such
thing, and I used to run an ISP. There may be suggestions, but no rules.

Of course there are rules. They where set forth when the group was created:

rec.boats.cruising Cruising in boats.

CHARTER

The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will be open to
discussions on all topics related to cruising in boats such as:
- cruising equipment
- cruising reports
- destinations: Including where to moor/anchor, restaurants to
visit, sights to see and where/how to provision
- discussion of long-distance passagemaking and related issues
- discussion on navigation
- requests for crews and for boats to crew on
- upcoming events, cruises, etc
- etc.

The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will not be open
to for-sale postings. Appropriate advertisements should be directed
to rec.boats.marketplace.

It is hoped that a FAQ will be developed.

This is the Internet...

If there were rules, you wouldn't see copyrighted manuals and software
posted to news groups. I agree that I don't want to see these news
groups filled up with commercial posting.


There are some that feel that if a rule isn't enforced, it doesn't
really exist. I'm sure the Berny Madoff felt that way.

Jeff wrote in :

Geoff Schultz wrote:
...
Regarding the commercial postings: It always amazes me how there are
members of this group and others who think there are some official
rules which dictate what can be posted here. I've certainly never
see any such thing, and I used to run an ISP. There may be
suggestions, but no rules.

Of course there are rules. They where set forth when the group was
created:

rec.boats.cruising Cruising in boats.

CHARTER

The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will be open to
discussions on all topics related to cruising in boats such as:
- cruising equipment
- cruising reports
- destinations: Including where to moor/anchor, restaurants to
visit, sights to see and where/how to provision
- discussion of long-distance passagemaking and related issues
- discussion on navigation
- requests for crews and for boats to crew on
- upcoming events, cruises, etc
- etc.

The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will not be open
to for-sale postings. Appropriate advertisements should be directed
to rec.boats.marketplace.

It is hoped that a FAQ will be developed.

This is the Internet...

If there were rules, you wouldn't see copyrighted manuals and
software posted to news groups. I agree that I don't want to see
these news groups filled up with commercial posting.


There are some that feel that if a rule isn't enforced, it doesn't
really exist. I'm sure the Berny Madoff felt that way.

When was the last time that anyone posted these "rules" to this news
group? And when was this posted and to where? It's my guess that this
was before anyone could create any group that they want and there was
going to be some form of control over groups. Clearly that went out of
the window many, many years ago. These are nice suggestions, not rules.

And there are also rules against posting using fake addresses/psuedonyms,
etc. Clearly no one follows them in here. You can't select to follow
some rules and not others.

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 12:16:33 -0500, Geoff Schultz
wrote:

Jeff wrote in :

Geoff Schultz wrote:
...
Regarding the commercial postings: It always amazes me how there are
members of this group and others who think there are some official
rules which dictate what can be posted here. I've certainly never
see any such thing, and I used to run an ISP. There may be
suggestions, but no rules.

Of course there are rules. They where set forth when the group was
created:

rec.boats.cruising Cruising in boats.

CHARTER

The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will be open to
discussions on all topics related to cruising in boats such as:
- cruising equipment
- cruising reports
- destinations: Including where to moor/anchor, restaurants to
visit, sights to see and where/how to provision
- discussion of long-distance passagemaking and related issues
- discussion on navigation
- requests for crews and for boats to crew on
- upcoming events, cruises, etc
- etc.

The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will not be open
to for-sale postings. Appropriate advertisements should be directed
to rec.boats.marketplace.

It is hoped that a FAQ will be developed.

This is the Internet...

If there were rules, you wouldn't see copyrighted manuals and
software posted to news groups. I agree that I don't want to see
these news groups filled up with commercial posting.


There are some that feel that if a rule isn't enforced, it doesn't
really exist. I'm sure the Berny Madoff felt that way.

When was the last time that anyone posted these "rules" to this news
group? And when was this posted and to where? It's my guess that this
was before anyone could create any group that they want and there was
going to be some form of control over groups. Clearly that went out of
the window many, many years ago. These are nice suggestions, not rules.

And there are also rules against posting using fake addresses/psuedonyms,
etc. Clearly no one follows them in here. You can't select to follow
some rules and not others.

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

We need some moderators.
I nominate Roger Long, Wlibur Hubbard, and Larry.
And Bruce and Jon. Maybe Peter when he returns.
That's a start.
No offense to those I omitted.
A blessing, really.

--Vic

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 12:16:33 -0500, Geoff Schultz
wrote:

Jeff wrote in :

Geoff Schultz wrote:
...
Regarding the commercial postings: It always amazes me how there are
members of this group and others who think there are some official
rules which dictate what can be posted here. I've certainly never
see any such thing, and I used to run an ISP. There may be
suggestions, but no rules.

Of course there are rules. They where set forth when the group was
created:

rec.boats.cruising Cruising in boats.

CHARTER

The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will be open to
discussions on all topics related to cruising in boats such as:
- cruising equipment
- cruising reports
- destinations: Including where to moor/anchor, restaurants to
visit, sights to see and where/how to provision
- discussion of long-distance passagemaking and related issues
- discussion on navigation
- requests for crews and for boats to crew on
- upcoming events, cruises, etc
- etc.

The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will not be open
to for-sale postings. Appropriate advertisements should be directed
to rec.boats.marketplace.

It is hoped that a FAQ will be developed.

This is the Internet...

If there were rules, you wouldn't see copyrighted manuals and
software posted to news groups. I agree that I don't want to see
these news groups filled up with commercial posting.


There are some that feel that if a rule isn't enforced, it doesn't
really exist. I'm sure the Berny Madoff felt that way.

When was the last time that anyone posted these "rules" to this news
group? And when was this posted and to where? It's my guess that this
was before anyone could create any group that they want and there was
going to be some form of control over groups. Clearly that went out of
the window many, many years ago. These are nice suggestions, not rules.

And there are also rules against posting using fake addresses/psuedonyms,
etc. Clearly no one follows them in here. You can't select to follow
some rules and not others.

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

We need some moderators.
I nominate Roger Long, Wlibur Hubbard, and Larry.
And Bruce and Jon. Maybe Peter when he returns.
That's a start.
No offense to those I omitted.
A blessing, really.

--Vic


I'm not a very moderate person, so I'll decline.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Geoff Schultz wrote:
Jeff wrote in :

Geoff Schultz wrote:
...
Regarding the commercial postings: It always amazes me how there are
members of this group and others who think there are some official
rules which dictate what can be posted here. I've certainly never
see any such thing, and I used to run an ISP. There may be
suggestions, but no rules.
Of course there are rules. They where set forth when the group was
created:

rec.boats.cruising Cruising in boats.

CHARTER

The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will be open to
discussions on all topics related to cruising in boats such as:
- cruising equipment
- cruising reports
- destinations: Including where to moor/anchor, restaurants to
visit, sights to see and where/how to provision
- discussion of long-distance passagemaking and related issues
- discussion on navigation
- requests for crews and for boats to crew on
- upcoming events, cruises, etc
- etc.

The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will not be open
to for-sale postings. Appropriate advertisements should be directed
to rec.boats.marketplace.

It is hoped that a FAQ will be developed.

This is the Internet...

If there were rules, you wouldn't see copyrighted manuals and
software posted to news groups. I agree that I don't want to see
these news groups filled up with commercial posting.

There are some that feel that if a rule isn't enforced, it doesn't
really exist. I'm sure the Berny Madoff felt that way.

When was the last time that anyone posted these "rules" to this news
group? And when was this posted and to where?

Its been a few years. But the issue of commercial posts is discussed
several time a year, with very few people indeed saying they think it
would be good if everyone who has a product or boat to sell posted here.

It's my guess that this
was before anyone could create any group that they want and there was
going to be some form of control over groups. Clearly that went out of
the window many, many years ago. These are nice suggestions, not rules.

No, they are the rules. Your only point is that they are unenforcible.


And there are also rules against posting using fake addresses/psuedonyms,
etc. Clearly no one follows them in here.

Is this a confession? Actually, most of the posters have used only one
handle, and many have identified themselves. The fact that several
choose not to does not mean we have all left the pale of civilized
behavior. Actually, I'm inclined to believe the story that Neil died
and Wilbur is his "legacy" because until a few years ago Neil did not
engage much in sock puppets.

You can't select to follow
some rules and not others.

Isn't that exactly what you are suggesting? That everyone should simply
pick the rules they want to follow? Or are you suggesting that we make
a point of breaking all rules? ASA is an example of that path.

jeff wrote in :

Geoff Schultz wrote:
Jeff wrote in :

Geoff Schultz wrote:
...
Regarding the commercial postings: It always amazes me how there
are members of this group and others who think there are some
official rules which dictate what can be posted here. I've
certainly never see any such thing, and I used to run an ISP.
There may be suggestions, but no rules.
Of course there are rules. They where set forth when the group was
created:

rec.boats.cruising Cruising in boats.

CHARTER

The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will be open
to discussions on all topics related to cruising in boats such as:
- cruising equipment
- cruising reports
- destinations: Including where to moor/anchor, restaurants
to
visit, sights to see and where/how to provision
- discussion of long-distance passagemaking and related
issues - discussion on navigation
- requests for crews and for boats to crew on
- upcoming events, cruises, etc
- etc.

The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will not be
open to for-sale postings. Appropriate advertisements should be
directed to rec.boats.marketplace.

It is hoped that a FAQ will be developed.

This is the Internet...

If there were rules, you wouldn't see copyrighted manuals and
software posted to news groups. I agree that I don't want to see
these news groups filled up with commercial posting.

There are some that feel that if a rule isn't enforced, it doesn't
really exist. I'm sure the Berny Madoff felt that way.

When was the last time that anyone posted these "rules" to this news
group? And when was this posted and to where?

Its been a few years. But the issue of commercial posts is discussed
several time a year, with very few people indeed saying they think it
would be good if everyone who has a product or boat to sell posted
here.

It's my guess that this
was before anyone could create any group that they want and there was
going to be some form of control over groups. Clearly that went out
of the window many, many years ago. These are nice suggestions, not
rules.

No, they are the rules. Your only point is that they are
unenforcible.


And there are also rules against posting using fake
addresses/psuedonyms, etc. Clearly no one follows them in here.

Is this a confession? Actually, most of the posters have used only
one handle, and many have identified themselves. The fact that
several choose not to does not mean we have all left the pale of
civilized behavior. Actually, I'm inclined to believe the story that
Neil died and Wilbur is his "legacy" because until a few years ago
Neil did not engage much in sock puppets.

You can't select to follow
some rules and not others.

Isn't that exactly what you are suggesting? That everyone should
simply pick the rules they want to follow? Or are you suggesting that
we make a point of breaking all rules? ASA is an example of that
path.

Guess what, this is the Internet! RBC isn't far ahead of ASA. There are
no hard and fast rules. There are only suggestions. Tell me how you, or
anyone will keep commercial postings away. If you look at the count of
posters here, you'll see a steady decline over the years. News groups
are well out of the main stream and headed down hill. Within a few years
it will just be a memory which is hung onto by a few diehards.

Personally I would much rather ban Neal/Wilbur/et-al and all of his sock
puppets than the occasional commercial posting. Wilbur and his sock-
puppets have done more to discourage posting to these newsgroups than any
commercial posting. There's reasons why they don't post to forums.
They'd be shut down/banned/whatever within days. These unmoderated,
subscription-free posts are their only source of bile-based puke that
they have.

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

Geoff Schultz wrote:
jeff wrote in :

Geoff Schultz wrote:
Jeff wrote in :

Geoff Schultz wrote:
...
Regarding the commercial postings: It always amazes me how there
are members of this group and others who think there are some
official rules which dictate what can be posted here. I've
certainly never see any such thing, and I used to run an ISP.
There may be suggestions, but no rules.
Of course there are rules. They where set forth when the group was
created:

rec.boats.cruising Cruising in boats.

CHARTER

The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will be open
to discussions on all topics related to cruising in boats such as:
- cruising equipment
- cruising reports
- destinations: Including where to moor/anchor, restaurants
to
visit, sights to see and where/how to provision
- discussion of long-distance passagemaking and related
issues - discussion on navigation
- requests for crews and for boats to crew on
- upcoming events, cruises, etc
- etc.

The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will not be
open to for-sale postings. Appropriate advertisements should be
directed to rec.boats.marketplace.

It is hoped that a FAQ will be developed.

This is the Internet...

If there were rules, you wouldn't see copyrighted manuals and
software posted to news groups. I agree that I don't want to see
these news groups filled up with commercial posting.

There are some that feel that if a rule isn't enforced, it doesn't
really exist. I'm sure the Berny Madoff felt that way.
When was the last time that anyone posted these "rules" to this news
group? And when was this posted and to where?
Its been a few years. But the issue of commercial posts is discussed
several time a year, with very few people indeed saying they think it
would be good if everyone who has a product or boat to sell posted
here.

It's my guess that this
was before anyone could create any group that they want and there was
going to be some form of control over groups. Clearly that went out
of the window many, many years ago. These are nice suggestions, not
rules.
No, they are the rules. Your only point is that they are
unenforcible.

And there are also rules against posting using fake
addresses/psuedonyms, etc. Clearly no one follows them in here.
Is this a confession? Actually, most of the posters have used only
one handle, and many have identified themselves. The fact that
several choose not to does not mean we have all left the pale of
civilized behavior. Actually, I'm inclined to believe the story that
Neil died and Wilbur is his "legacy" because until a few years ago
Neil did not engage much in sock puppets.

You can't select to follow
some rules and not others.
Isn't that exactly what you are suggesting? That everyone should
simply pick the rules they want to follow? Or are you suggesting that
we make a point of breaking all rules? ASA is an example of that
path.

Guess what, this is the Internet! RBC isn't far ahead of ASA. There are
no hard and fast rules. There are only suggestions. Tell me how you, or
anyone will keep commercial postings away.

That's easy; the same way we have in the past. Most commercial vendors
like Mr. Atkins have no desire to spam a group that feels it's anti-social.

If you look at the count of
posters here, you'll see a steady decline over the years. News groups
are well out of the main stream and headed down hill. Within a few years
it will just be a memory which is hung onto by a few diehards.

Well, that's a different problem, not an excuse to trash it right now.


Personally I would much rather ban Neal/Wilbur/et-al and all of his sock
puppets than the occasional commercial posting. Wilbur and his sock-
puppets have done more to discourage posting to these newsgroups than any
commercial posting.

Again, a different problem.

There's reasons why they don't post to forums.
They'd be shut down/banned/whatever within days. These unmoderated,
subscription-free posts are their only source of bile-based puke that
they have.

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 19:43:09 -0500, Geoff Schultz
wrote:

jeff wrote in :

Geoff Schultz wrote:
Jeff wrote in :

Geoff Schultz wrote:
...
Regarding the commercial postings: It always amazes me how there
are members of this group and others who think there are some
official rules which dictate what can be posted here. I've
certainly never see any such thing, and I used to run an ISP.
There may be suggestions, but no rules.
Of course there are rules. They where set forth when the group was
created:

rec.boats.cruising Cruising in boats.

CHARTER

The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will be open
to discussions on all topics related to cruising in boats such as:
- cruising equipment
- cruising reports
- destinations: Including where to moor/anchor, restaurants
to
visit, sights to see and where/how to provision
- discussion of long-distance passagemaking and related
issues - discussion on navigation
- requests for crews and for boats to crew on
- upcoming events, cruises, etc
- etc.

The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will not be
open to for-sale postings. Appropriate advertisements should be
directed to rec.boats.marketplace.

It is hoped that a FAQ will be developed.

This is the Internet...

If there were rules, you wouldn't see copyrighted manuals and
software posted to news groups. I agree that I don't want to see
these news groups filled up with commercial posting.

There are some that feel that if a rule isn't enforced, it doesn't
really exist. I'm sure the Berny Madoff felt that way.

When was the last time that anyone posted these "rules" to this news
group? And when was this posted and to where?

Its been a few years. But the issue of commercial posts is discussed
several time a year, with very few people indeed saying they think it
would be good if everyone who has a product or boat to sell posted
here.

It's my guess that this
was before anyone could create any group that they want and there was
going to be some form of control over groups. Clearly that went out
of the window many, many years ago. These are nice suggestions, not
rules.

No, they are the rules. Your only point is that they are
unenforcible.


And there are also rules against posting using fake
addresses/psuedonyms, etc. Clearly no one follows them in here.

Is this a confession? Actually, most of the posters have used only
one handle, and many have identified themselves. The fact that
several choose not to does not mean we have all left the pale of
civilized behavior. Actually, I'm inclined to believe the story that
Neil died and Wilbur is his "legacy" because until a few years ago
Neil did not engage much in sock puppets.

You can't select to follow
some rules and not others.

Isn't that exactly what you are suggesting? That everyone should
simply pick the rules they want to follow? Or are you suggesting that
we make a point of breaking all rules? ASA is an example of that
path.

Guess what, this is the Internet! RBC isn't far ahead of ASA. There are
no hard and fast rules. There are only suggestions. Tell me how you, or
anyone will keep commercial postings away. If you look at the count of
posters here, you'll see a steady decline over the years. News groups
are well out of the main stream and headed down hill. Within a few years
it will just be a memory which is hung onto by a few diehards.

Personally I would much rather ban Neal/Wilbur/et-al and all of his sock
puppets than the occasional commercial posting. Wilbur and his sock-
puppets have done more to discourage posting to these newsgroups than any
commercial posting. There's reasons why they don't post to forums.
They'd be shut down/banned/whatever within days. These unmoderated,
subscription-free posts are their only source of bile-based puke that
they have.

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

Not many web forums will tolerate commercial postings. As far as
enforcement on a usenet group, Ben has been asked to refrain from
doing it, and told why. That is usually enough "enforcement" for
anyone who is trying to make friends and build a business. If not,
there is, in fact, recourse.

On Apr 7, 6:03*am, wrote:
On Mon, 06 Apr 2009 19:43:09 -0500, Geoff Schultz



wrote:
jeff wrote :

Geoff Schultz wrote:
Jeff wrote :

Geoff Schultz wrote:
...
Regarding the commercial postings: *It always amazes me how there
are members of this group and others who think there are some
official rules which dictate what can be posted here. *I've
certainly never see any such thing, and I used to run an ISP.
There may be suggestions, but no rules.
Of course there are rules. *They where set forth when the group was
created:

rec.boats.cruising * * *Cruising in boats.

CHARTER

The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will be open
to discussions on all topics related to cruising in boats such as:
* * * * - cruising equipment
* * * * - cruising reports
* * * * - destinations: Including where to moor/anchor, restaurants
* * * * to
visit, sights to see and where/how to provision
* * * * - discussion of long-distance passagemaking and related
* * * * issues - discussion on navigation
* * * * - requests for crews and for boats to crew on
* * * * - upcoming events, cruises, etc
* * * * - etc.

The proposed unmoderated newsgroup rec.boats.cruising will not be
open to for-sale postings. *Appropriate advertisements should be
directed to rec.boats.marketplace.

It is hoped that a FAQ will be developed.

This is the Internet...

If there were rules, you wouldn't see copyrighted manuals and
software posted to news groups. *I agree that I don't want to see
these news groups filled up with commercial posting. *

There are some that feel that if a rule isn't enforced, it doesn't
really exist. *I'm sure the Berny Madoff felt that way.

When was the last time that anyone posted these "rules" to this news
group? *And when was this posted and to where? *

Its been a few years. *But the issue of commercial posts is discussed
several time a year, with very few people indeed saying they think it
would be good if everyone who has a product or boat to sell posted
here.

It's my guess that this
was before anyone could create any group that they want and there was
going to be some form of control over groups. *Clearly that went out
of the window many, many years ago. *These are nice suggestions, not
rules.

No, they are the rules. *Your only point is that they are
unenforcible.

And there are also rules against posting using fake
addresses/psuedonyms, etc. *Clearly no one follows them in here. *

Is this a confession? *Actually, most of the posters have used only
one handle, and many have identified themselves. *The fact that
several choose not to does not mean we have all left the pale of
civilized behavior. *Actually, I'm inclined to believe the story that
Neil died and Wilbur is his "legacy" because until a few years ago
Neil did not engage much in sock puppets.

You can't select to follow
some rules and not others.

Isn't that exactly what you are suggesting? *That everyone should
simply pick the rules they want to follow? *Or are you suggesting that
we make a point of breaking all rules? *ASA is an example of that
path.

Guess what, this is the Internet! *RBC isn't far ahead of ASA. *There are
no hard and fast rules. *There are only suggestions. *Tell me how you, or
anyone will keep commercial postings away. *If you look at the count of
posters here, you'll see a steady decline over the years. *News groups
are well out of the main stream and headed down hill. *Within a few years
it will just be a memory which is hung onto by a few diehards. *

Personally I would much rather ban Neal/Wilbur/et-al and all of his sock
puppets than the occasional commercial posting. *Wilbur and his sock-
puppets have done more to discourage posting to these newsgroups than any
commercial posting. *There's reasons why they don't post to forums. *
They'd be shut down/banned/whatever within days. *These unmoderated,
subscription-free posts are their only source of bile-based puke that
they have.

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

Not many web forums will tolerate commercial postings. As far as
enforcement on a usenet group, Ben has been asked to refrain from
doing it, and told why. That is usually enough "enforcement" for
anyone who is trying to make friends and build a business. If not,
there is, in fact, recourse.

Well, I did look for the forum rules before posting and did not find
them. I understand the rules now and I make it a point not to spam
boards with useless sales info. However, I do see a mutually
beneficial relationship that has developed on other boards between
vendor and casual poster. By drawing the line between useful industry
knowledge that all everybody can use and cluttering up the group with
relentless spam, I receive exposure and the reinforcement of our
abilities and you receive my experiences and said useful knowledge.
What do people think about that?