Okay, time for me to pay the piper, face the music, um, take my lumps,
er, anyway...

Turns out, I don't have a magic head, don't even have a difficult head
problem due to some weird vent connection. What I have is:


Peggie Hall wrote:

Stephen Trapani wrote:


When we use the head (a Groco Type K) and pump it out, the waste
comes out the holding tank vent line.


I meant when I pump the toilet...


I knew that's what you meant.


Okay, then I'm thinking logically, just going insane. Or I really do
have a magic head! ;-) It's a plastic tank, I can see it's empty.


Since you've used the toilet, or only after you vacuumed it out? 'Cuz
it's very possible that the tank doesn't hold anywhere near as much as
you think it does. How many gallons is it supposed to hold? It's also
possible that the toilet either uses a lot more flush water than you
think...or that it's leaking flush water, filling up the tank.

Yeah the tank was full. Somehow my dreamworld must have gotten mixed up
with reality, or my memory mixed up with itself, or something, so your
first guess was the right one. Good job! Not only didn't I stump the
headmistress I didn't even give her a little challenge. Oh well.

No point going into the gory details of how I messed up, I'm kind of
sketchy on that anyway, but you pretty much nailed it from the start.

I would like to ask another question though, since we now know my
confusion knows no bounds. Remember the head intake is connected to the
fresh water system:


...reconnect it to the intake thru-hull--which I suspect you've
mistaken for a head discharge thru-hull...I'll bet the PO "converted"
it when he connected the intake to the fresh water system.



... could be, but the '79 Hunter 33' couldn't have been designed
without a head discharge thru-hull, could it?


Prob'ly not on one that old, but it's possible...'cuz '79 was the first
model year to require holding tanks. Many boats built from then on were
plumbed to send all the waste to the tank. But it's more likely that a
PO prior to the most recent PO removed the head thru-hull and glassed it
over...'cuz your toilet isn't original either (it's a $600 toilet, btw).
So I'm guessing that the same PO who connected the intake to the fresh
water system also installed that toilet and decided to use the sink
drain through hull as a head discharge. However...

Maybe it Y'd into the sink discharge? Should I try to run it to there?


That'll work...in fact, although I don't think Hunter ever did, many
sailboats are plumbed that way to eliminate a thru-hull. You will have
to either keep a plug in the sink or install a shut=off valve in the
sink drain line that should remain closed except when the sink is in
use...otherwise the toilet will pull air through the sink that'll
prevent it from priming and pulling in any flush water.

So I have a through hull in the starboard locker near the head that
appears to be attached to the Y-valve and a through hull way over under
the port settee that, to the best of my knowledge is connected only to
the sink discharge. Where should I connect the raw water intake for the
head and where should I connect the overboard side of the head discharge?

Stephen

Stephen Trapani wrote:
Okay, time for me to pay the piper, face the music, um, take my lumps,
er, anyway...

Turns out, I don't have a magic head, don't even have a difficult head
problem due to some weird vent connection. What I have is:

Yeah the tank was full. Somehow my dreamworld must have gotten mixed up
with reality, or my memory mixed up with itself, or something, so your
first guess was the right one. Good job! Not only didn't I stump the
headmistress I didn't even give her a little challenge. Oh well.

So I have a through hull in the starboard locker near the head that
appears to be attached to the Y-valve and a through hull way over under
the port settee that, to the best of my knowledge is connected only to
the sink discharge. Where should I connect the raw water intake for the
head and where should I connect the overboard side of the head discharge?

Welll... You can use the same 3/4" thru-hull for both the head sink
drain and the head intake, but you cannot use the same thru-hull for
both the head intake and discharge. Since you don't have a 1.5" head
discharge thru-hull/seacock, you'll have to install one...or maybe not,
unless you're in coastal waters that offer immediate access to open sea
at least 3 miles offshore from the nearest point on the whole US
coastline...'cuz it's illegal to flush a toilet directly overboard or
dump a tank in any US coastal waters inside the "3 mile limit" and in
all inland waters including the Great Lakes.

Getting you sorted out is gonna be more involved than is practical here.
So how 'bout emailing me?
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1

Stephen Trapani wrote in message ...
Well, I was going to wait until I tore things apart further to ask, but
I figured maybe someone would have an easy answer to save me some time.

Here's the punchline: When we use the head (a Groco Type K) and pump it
out, the waste comes out the holding tank vent line.

This seems impossible to me. First of all, the tank itself is empty and
regardless of which way I flip the Y valve the waste still comes out the
vent line, which is attached to a three inch screw in top, in the top of
the holding tank.

Here are some facts that may help: The water supply for the toilet is
the fresh water tank. The previous owners put a ball valve before the
head, when you turn it on, water comes in the toilet bowl, then you turn
it off/down while you pump out the bowl,etc, and leave it off until you
use the toilet again. Completely non-standard setup, I guess. I've been
working on other more important things, but this was going to be my
next, um job, sort of, but anyway the first thing I was going to try was
to open the seacock toilet waste valve. I haven't tried this yet though,
all this has been happening with that valve closed.

Also, waste slowly leaks from around the top of the tank, onto the top
of the tank either out of the vent line or from around the screw
fitting. Whenever I look there is a little puddle of waste on top of the
tank. Again this seems impossible. How does the waste even get there
when there seems to be none making into the tank and while there is
definitely none collecting in the tank itself. I'm very curious.

There are only three through hulls in the boat (H33), the raw water
intake for the Yanmar, the head discharge and the sink discharge. I
really don't want to haul out the boat to add one(budget problems).

So, um, guesses? solid answers? things I should check first? Directions
I should head to solve this?

Thanks!

Stephen

The only way this can happen is if the vent line goes to the bottom of
the tank. I assume you are very sure the tank is empty?

Rolf

Subject: Magic Head
Path:
lobby!ngtf-m01.news.aol.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!n
ews.maxwell.syr.edu!postnews2.google.com!not-for-mail
From: (Rolf)
Newsgroups: rec.boats.cruising
Date: 7 Jul 2004 03:38:05 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Lines: 44
Message-ID:
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.147.1.3
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1089196686 19606 127.0.0.1 (7 Jul 2004 10:38:06
GMT)
X-Complaints-To:
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 10:38:06 +0000 (UTC)



Stephen Trapani wrote in message
...
Well, I was going to wait until I tore things apart further to ask, but
I figured maybe someone would have an easy answer to save me some time.

Here's the punchline: When we use the head (a Groco Type K) and pump it
out, the waste comes out the holding tank vent line.

This seems impossible to me. First of all, the tank itself is empty and
regardless of which way I flip the Y valve the waste still comes out the
vent line, which is attached to a three inch screw in top, in the top of
the holding tank.

Here are some facts that may help: The water supply for the toilet is
the fresh water tank. The previous owners put a ball valve before the
head, when you turn it on, water comes in the toilet bowl, then you turn
it off/down while you pump out the bowl,etc, and leave it off until you
use the toilet again. Completely non-standard setup, I guess. I've been
working on other more important things, but this was going to be my
next, um job, sort of, but anyway the first thing I was going to try was
to open the seacock toilet waste valve. I haven't tried this yet though,
all this has been happening with that valve closed.

Also, waste slowly leaks from around the top of the tank, onto the top
of the tank either out of the vent line or from around the screw
fitting. Whenever I look there is a little puddle of waste on top of the
tank. Again this seems impossible. How does the waste even get there
when there seems to be none making into the tank and while there is
definitely none collecting in the tank itself. I'm very curious.

There are only three through hulls in the boat (H33), the raw water
intake for the Yanmar, the head discharge and the sink discharge. I
really don't want to haul out the boat to add one(budget problems).

So, um, guesses? solid answers? things I should check first? Directions
I should head to solve this?

Thanks!

Stephen

The only way this can happen is if the vent line goes to the bottom of
the tank. I assume you are very sure the tank is empty?

Rolf
If the tank was originally a recirculating head system and the PO decided fresh
water flush was nicer and capped the vent by mistake and hooked the vent up to
the recirculating line going to the bottom of the tank you would have the
problem you described. Check the tank and count the number of fittings on it.
recirculating tanks have 2 big lines and 2 small lines. If you have this and
one small line is capped just switch the small line for the small capped line
and try it out.

If the tank was originally a recirculating head system and the PO decided fresh
water flush was nicer and capped the vent by mistake and hooked the vent up to
the recirculating line going to the bottom of the tank you would have the
problem you described. Check the tank and count the number of fittings on it.
recirculating tanks have 2 big lines and 2 small lines. If you have this and
one small line is capped just switch the small line for the small capped line
and try it out.

Interesting thought, Rolf...but I don't THINK Hunter ever installed
those gawdawful recirculating systems. I've yet to hear of one anyway,
and I've been giving plumbing advice on the Hunter Owners site for more
than 5 years. All the builders who did install recirculating systems
used Raritan Compact toilets and either the Raritan the 5 gallon tank
that wraps around the bowl or a 5 gallon plastic tank made by
Kracor...the OEM toilets on 70s and early 80s Hunters were
Mansfield/SeaLand 751/752 manual toilets and their tanks were all aluminum.

But even if they did, it's unlikely the original tank would still be on
the boat. The toilet has definitely been replaced, and if the PO who did
that ever intended to use the tank, it would also have been replaced
with a larger one...'cuz once it was converted to use flush water
instead of recirculating waste water, a 5 gallon tank would fill up in a
day. It's also in the wrong location to have been part of a
recirculating system.

But as I said, it's a very interesting thought...I'm surprised anyone
today even knew that those systems ever existed.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://69.20.93.241/store/customer/p...40&cat=&page=1