"Marty" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote:
On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:56:52 -0700 (PDT), said:

OK, solet me make sure I've got your point straight...

Forcefully holding a person's head under water until they believe they
are going to die... and in some cases, actually die... does not fall
within the definition of "torture." Is that it?

Sigh...you still don't get it. I'm not saying it is or is not properly
labeled "torture." I'm saying the label you stick on it is no more than
an
expression of your conclusion that it's a "bad thing." Expressing that
conclusion isn't going to persuade any rational person that your
conclusion
is correct. Only that you believe it.

Ok, since you insist on this exercise in sophistry, let's return to first
principles and move to a more Socratic level.

Please define what the term "torture" means.

I will keep this to one question at a time to avoid confusing anyone.

Cheers
Martin

It means whatever we want it to, silly. If we want it to mean birthday cake
and puppies and merry-go-rounds, it doesn't have to mean just "bad things"
after all. It's just a word, after all.

I think Dave needs to brush-up on his S.I. Hayakawa.

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

"Marty" wrote in message
...
Dave wrote:
On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:56:52 -0700 (PDT), said:

OK, solet me make sure I've got your point straight...

Forcefully holding a person's head under water until they believe they
are going to die... and in some cases, actually die... does not fall
within the definition of "torture." Is that it?

Sigh...you still don't get it. I'm not saying it is or is not properly
labeled "torture." I'm saying the label you stick on it is no more than
an
expression of your conclusion that it's a "bad thing." Expressing that
conclusion isn't going to persuade any rational person that your
conclusion
is correct. Only that you believe it.

Ok, since you insist on this exercise in sophistry, let's return to first
principles and move to a more Socratic level.

Please define what the term "torture" means.

I will keep this to one question at a time to avoid confusing anyone.

Cheers
Martin

It means whatever we want it to, silly. If we want it to mean birthday
cake
and puppies and merry-go-rounds, it doesn't have to mean just "bad things"
after all. It's just a word, after all.

I think Dave needs to brush-up on his S.I. Hayakawa.

Whoa... I haven't heard that name bandied about it a while.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

KLC Lewis wrote:

I think Dave needs to brush-up on his S.I. Hayakawa.


Hmmm, were you perhaps thinking: "I'm going to speak my mind because I
have nothing to lose." ?

Cheers
Martin

"Marty" wrote in message
...
KLC Lewis wrote:

I think Dave needs to brush-up on his S.I. Hayakawa.


Hmmm, were you perhaps thinking: "I'm going to speak my mind because I
have nothing to lose." ?

Cheers
Martin

Usually. :-)

KLC Lewis wrote:
"Marty" wrote in message
...
KLC Lewis wrote:
I think Dave needs to brush-up on his S.I. Hayakawa.

Hmmm, were you perhaps thinking: "I'm going to speak my mind because I
have nothing to lose." ?

Cheers
Martin

Usually. :-)



Hayakawa was Canadian, his views on bilingualism would be considered
heresy in his native country. However I agree with him, over the last
century we have expended more money on bilingualism than we have on
National Defence and Health care combined,,,

Cheers
Martin

"Marty" wrote in message
...
KLC Lewis wrote:
"Marty" wrote in message
...
KLC Lewis wrote:
I think Dave needs to brush-up on his S.I. Hayakawa.

Hmmm, were you perhaps thinking: "I'm going to speak my mind because I
have nothing to lose." ?

Cheers
Martin

Usually. :-)

Hayakawa was Canadian, his views on bilingualism would be considered
heresy in his native country. However I agree with him, over the last
century we have expended more money on bilingualism than we have on
National Defence and Health care combined,,,

Cheers
Martin

Hey, he gave-up his Canuckness when he became a US Citizen. ;-D

KLC Lewis wrote:
"Marty" wrote in message
...
KLC Lewis wrote:
"Marty" wrote in message
...
KLC Lewis wrote:
I think Dave needs to brush-up on his S.I. Hayakawa.
Hmmm, were you perhaps thinking: "I'm going to speak my mind because I
have nothing to lose." ?

Cheers
Martin
Usually. :-)
Hayakawa was Canadian, his views on bilingualism would be considered
heresy in his native country. However I agree with him, over the last
century we have expended more money on bilingualism than we have on
National Defence and Health care combined,,,

Cheers
Martin

Hey, he gave-up his Canuckness when he became a US Citizen. ;-D



Canadian law, like that of Great Britain, (our mother) does not
recognize this..as far as we're concerned he had dual citizenship ..
not that we are going to send down a team of heavily armed beavers to
bring his corpse back... :-)

Cheers
Martin

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:16:36 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
said:

Ok, since you insist on this exercise in sophistry, let's return to
first
principles and move to a more Socratic level.

Please define what the term "torture" means.

I will keep this to one question at a time to avoid confusing anyone.

Cheers
Martin

It means whatever we want it to, silly. If we want it to mean birthday
cake
and puppies and merry-go-rounds,

I think you may be starting to get the point, Karin. If you want to argue
about whether puppies or merry-go-rounds are a good thing, then talk about
puppies or merry-go rounds, rather than arguing about whether puppies or
merry-go-rounds are among the things denoted by the word "torture."

Since it seems clear that Jon, Not-At-All, Marty et. al. think one wins an
argument solely by having the last word, I'll end my participation in the
thread by having underlined that point and let them continue to squabble
should they so desire.

If your map is faulty, you'll never find your way through the territory.

Dave wrote:

Since it seems clear that Jon, Not-At-All, Marty et. al. think one wins an
argument solely by having the last word,


You do have a penchant for making invalid conclusions based on scanty
evidence. Hell, I haven't even started an argument, merely politely
asked you to define your terms.

I'll end my participation in the
thread by having underlined that point and let them continue to squabble
should they so desire.


You forgot to ad, "Without having made a single valid point."

Cheers
Martin

Dave wrote:
On Fri, 13 Mar 2009 17:39:04 -0400, Marty said:

You forgot to ad, "Without having made a single valid point."

Hmm. Having said I was ending participation in the thread, I now see that
although I referred to the "Cliff Notes" version in a couple of earlier
posts,

You got lonely at home all by yourself,,


discussion relates to the use of torture by agencies of the

Still waiting for you to define the term "torture".


Squabble on.

Translation, "I'm taking my ball and going home to mommy"

Cheers
Martin