Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
#1
posted to rec.boats.cruising
|
|||
|
|||
Yeah, I know "plonk"
Dave wrote:
Calling waterboarding "torture" is definitely not an adequate substitute for reasoned discussion. OK, solet me make sure I've got your point straight... Forcefully holding a person's head under water until they believe they are going to die... and in some cases, actually die... does not fall within the definition of "torture." Is that it? Now, what about other things, like giving prisoners electric shocks, having them attacked by killer dogs, or using "pressure positions" (a widely used one is to hang them from their arms, remarkably like Roman crucifixion)... again, many times "interrogators" using these methods have killed prisoners in US custody... documented by the US military who had custody of the prisoners but did not carry out the interrogations. It's simply trying to attach a label in the hope that substantive discussion will be foreclosed. Why do you find this concept so hard to grasp? Saying that I don'tgrasp your concept is a simple way to divert attention with a little insult.... while totally failing to answer any of the points I have made about the serious flaws in your logic... not to mention your moral position. Just to make it clear, you are in favor of inflicting pain, fear, and bodily harm, on US prisoners... to the point of death in many cases... for the sake of almost-certanly-useless information. To you, the slight possibility of gaining useful info is worth BOTH the risk of losing any chance of gaining further info from that prisoner, and sacrificing the moral position of the whole country. That's it in a nutshel, right? DSK |
#3
posted to rec.boats.cruising
|
|||
|
|||
Yeah, I know "plonk"
"Marty" wrote in message ... Dave wrote: On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:56:52 -0700 (PDT), said: OK, solet me make sure I've got your point straight... Forcefully holding a person's head under water until they believe they are going to die... and in some cases, actually die... does not fall within the definition of "torture." Is that it? Sigh...you still don't get it. I'm not saying it is or is not properly labeled "torture." I'm saying the label you stick on it is no more than an expression of your conclusion that it's a "bad thing." Expressing that conclusion isn't going to persuade any rational person that your conclusion is correct. Only that you believe it. Ok, since you insist on this exercise in sophistry, let's return to first principles and move to a more Socratic level. Please define what the term "torture" means. I will keep this to one question at a time to avoid confusing anyone. Cheers Martin It means whatever we want it to, silly. If we want it to mean birthday cake and puppies and merry-go-rounds, it doesn't have to mean just "bad things" after all. It's just a word, after all. I think Dave needs to brush-up on his S.I. Hayakawa. |
#4
posted to rec.boats.cruising
|
|||
|
|||
Yeah, I know "plonk"
"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et... "Marty" wrote in message ... Dave wrote: On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:56:52 -0700 (PDT), said: OK, solet me make sure I've got your point straight... Forcefully holding a person's head under water until they believe they are going to die... and in some cases, actually die... does not fall within the definition of "torture." Is that it? Sigh...you still don't get it. I'm not saying it is or is not properly labeled "torture." I'm saying the label you stick on it is no more than an expression of your conclusion that it's a "bad thing." Expressing that conclusion isn't going to persuade any rational person that your conclusion is correct. Only that you believe it. Ok, since you insist on this exercise in sophistry, let's return to first principles and move to a more Socratic level. Please define what the term "torture" means. I will keep this to one question at a time to avoid confusing anyone. Cheers Martin It means whatever we want it to, silly. If we want it to mean birthday cake and puppies and merry-go-rounds, it doesn't have to mean just "bad things" after all. It's just a word, after all. I think Dave needs to brush-up on his S.I. Hayakawa. Whoa... I haven't heard that name bandied about it a while. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#5
posted to rec.boats.cruising
|
|||
|
|||
Yeah, I know "plonk"
KLC Lewis wrote:
I think Dave needs to brush-up on his S.I. Hayakawa. Hmmm, were you perhaps thinking: "I'm going to speak my mind because I have nothing to lose." ? Cheers Martin |
#6
posted to rec.boats.cruising
|
|||
|
|||
Yeah, I know "plonk"
"Marty" wrote in message ... KLC Lewis wrote: I think Dave needs to brush-up on his S.I. Hayakawa. Hmmm, were you perhaps thinking: "I'm going to speak my mind because I have nothing to lose." ? Cheers Martin Usually. :-) |
#7
posted to rec.boats.cruising
|
|||
|
|||
Yeah, I know "plonk"
KLC Lewis wrote:
"Marty" wrote in message ... KLC Lewis wrote: I think Dave needs to brush-up on his S.I. Hayakawa. Hmmm, were you perhaps thinking: "I'm going to speak my mind because I have nothing to lose." ? Cheers Martin Usually. :-) Hayakawa was Canadian, his views on bilingualism would be considered heresy in his native country. However I agree with him, over the last century we have expended more money on bilingualism than we have on National Defence and Health care combined,,, Cheers Martin |
#8
posted to rec.boats.cruising
|
|||
|
|||
Yeah, I know "plonk"
"Marty" wrote in message ... KLC Lewis wrote: "Marty" wrote in message ... KLC Lewis wrote: I think Dave needs to brush-up on his S.I. Hayakawa. Hmmm, were you perhaps thinking: "I'm going to speak my mind because I have nothing to lose." ? Cheers Martin Usually. :-) Hayakawa was Canadian, his views on bilingualism would be considered heresy in his native country. However I agree with him, over the last century we have expended more money on bilingualism than we have on National Defence and Health care combined,,, Cheers Martin Hey, he gave-up his Canuckness when he became a US Citizen. ;-D |
#9
posted to rec.boats.cruising
|
|||
|
|||
Yeah, I know "plonk"
"Dave" wrote in message ... On Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:16:36 -0600, "KLC Lewis" said: Ok, since you insist on this exercise in sophistry, let's return to first principles and move to a more Socratic level. Please define what the term "torture" means. I will keep this to one question at a time to avoid confusing anyone. Cheers Martin It means whatever we want it to, silly. If we want it to mean birthday cake and puppies and merry-go-rounds, I think you may be starting to get the point, Karin. If you want to argue about whether puppies or merry-go-rounds are a good thing, then talk about puppies or merry-go rounds, rather than arguing about whether puppies or merry-go-rounds are among the things denoted by the word "torture." Since it seems clear that Jon, Not-At-All, Marty et. al. think one wins an argument solely by having the last word, I'll end my participation in the thread by having underlined that point and let them continue to squabble should they so desire. If your map is faulty, you'll never find your way through the territory. |
#10
posted to rec.boats.cruising
|
|||
|
|||
Yeah, I know "plonk"
Dave wrote:
Since it seems clear that Jon, Not-At-All, Marty et. al. think one wins an argument solely by having the last word, You do have a penchant for making invalid conclusions based on scanty evidence. Hell, I haven't even started an argument, merely politely asked you to define your terms. I'll end my participation in the thread by having underlined that point and let them continue to squabble should they so desire. You forgot to ad, "Without having made a single valid point." Cheers Martin |
Reply |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Way OT, but a "cold war" question. who were the "Pinkos?" | General | |||
"Jeffrey Boyd" is an anagram of "Midget Runt" in Japanese | ASA | |||
Battery with "Double the Power" or that takes up "Half the Space" | ASA | |||
Marinco 15 Amp "Marine Grade" 120VAC Receptical v. Leviton "terrestrial grade" | Boat Building |