Please,someone! Go sailing and talk about it!
 

On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 18:20:15 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
news:pbmdnaHxNJFisT7UnZ2dnUVZ_jyWnZ2d@centurytel. net...

wrote in message
...
Weather still not good enough here (high winds and deep draft plus
shallow water equals bad boo)
It's beginning to loo like ASAin here...

Well, this isn't going to sound very manly after all the talk about
fires, explosions, and rudder failure; but I went sailing on Saturday.
It was chilly but the wind was OK... a tad on the light side, but OK
considering the temps... raced on a friend's Islander 30 and got a 2nd
& 3rd in class.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Good on ya, Doug! Glad someone is actually able to get out and sail this
time of year.


You could too if you'd get your priorities straight, Admiral. It's pretty
dumb to live above the Arctic Circle and claim you love sailing. Duh! That's
like some fool living in the Sahara Desert claiming she loves to snow ski.

Get a clue, either move to where you can sail year round or stop the
pretense that you're an avid sailor. You are just another lubberly homebody,
or so it appears.

Wilbur Hubbard

AND THERES GOOD OLD WILBUR again.

Here then, Willie, never heard of "ice boats" then. Stupid, stupid,
wet water sailor.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Speaking of emergency steering
 

On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:45:49 -0500, jeff wrote:

Wayne.B wrote:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 08:04:59 -0500, jeff wrote:

Catamarans of course have an issue since the keels are usually only
slightly deeper than the rudders, so strikes are common.

That can happen of course, but most monohull steering failures are
caused by structural issues internal to the rudder or in the cables,
blocks or quadrant.

Yes - but cable issues are a different class of failure. Every boat
should have some form of emergency tiller to make do when there is some
type of linkage issue. No one should be stranded mid-ocean because of a
quadrant or cable problem.

So this leaves several failure modes - rudder falling off, post
separating inside rudder, and post bending and jamming rudder. I wonder
what the frequency of failure is for the various types of rudders.


I read a fairly comprehensive analysis of rudder strength in some
boating magazine - probably Practical Boat Owner - but it was several
years ago. The article was an excerpt from the author's testimony as
an expert witness in a court case involving the loss of a yacht rudder
during a storm.

So apparently it is not an unknown phenomena, and from the tone of the
article, which did not mention the make of yacht but I think was a
Benataou (sp?) and seemed to say that many yacht rudders were not
constructed with the idea of being caught in a major storm in mind.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Speaking of emergency steering
 

On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 12:29:36 -0800 (PST), Joe
wrote:

On Feb 23, 12:55*pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
"jeff" wrote in message

...
snipped some

So this leaves several failure modes - rudder falling off, post separating
inside rudder, and post bending and jamming rudder. *I wonder what the
frequency of failure is for the various types of rudders.

Why not ask Joe. He's the expert on rudder failure. Bwahahhahahahah. Who
would have thought a poorly designed rudder would sink a steel boat?

Wilbur Hubbard

Cecil,greg,wilbur, neal, ect..ect..

I've had a dozen or so failures I can recall.

First in diego garcia on this boat before it was converted:
http://www.ship564.org/boats.html
They ID the boat due to a repair made after loosing steering and
hitting a cement anchor bouy. No one was hurt.
Cable broke

One on a tug pushing 250 thousand gallons of diesel in a fuel flat.
Was in a meeting situation in the ICW. Luckly it was caused by blowing
a stb hydro hose, and the barge rammed the mud bank, had it been the
port side it would have put the barge if front of a loaded gravel
barge. We were in a 1 whistle agreement passing when it blew. Fixed
that by replacing the hose.

Crew & Supply boats....a dozen times, Pumps mostly, clogged
filters..nothing serious, most boats had redundant units.

And RedCloud. It had a worm gear unit like this :
http://www.2carpros.com/how_does_it_...g_gear_box.jpg
Just much more beefy. On the output shaft was a fulcrum to a fulcrum
on the rudder shaft top. The tie rod between them was 1" steel rod and
failed were the fulcrum attached to the rod on the output shaft of the
worm gear. Without stops the rod after sheering went through the
hull.

I guess I could be called an expert now, I paid the tuition cost.

How about you? Have many times have you lost steering, bent props, had
fires, had injured crew, rescued anyone, been in a wreck, made a penny
as a Captain? (imaginary times and fairy tales not included)

Joe


Good Lord, Joe - you had to ask?

A guy on a permanently moored boat doesn't have problems with the
steering gear or propellers and mentioning crew in discussions with
Willie is not logical.... Who would willingly get in a boat with
Wilbur... well, except for Gregory or one of his other socks.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Speaking of emergency steering
 

On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 14:28:56 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll
wrote:

On Feb 23, 4:13 am, "Roger Long" wrote:
My rudder quadrant is pretty massive. In addition to an emergency tiller,
the wind vane control lines attach to the quadrant so I can steer with the
vane gear or by pulling on the lines. My concern is the stock breaking off
of the steel plate inside the rudder at the weld and starting to just spin
inside the rudder. Like most, mine fills with water and drains all winter.

I'm thinking of adapting an idea from the old sailing ships an attaching a
stout ring through bolted with straps to the rear upper corner of the
rudder. This is just above the waterline on my boat. I can either run a line
to this while standing on the boarding ladder or keep a light line rigged as
shown he

http://www.rogerlongboats.com/images/Esteerline.jpg

Lines taken either side to blocks on the toe rail holes and then to the
winches should give me some control at the cost of some topside chafing.

I also have a very bunk bin board over my holding tank that is nearly as
large as my rudder. I plan to obtain a suitable piece of pipe and pre-drill
it for a tiller and to attach the pre-drilled bunk board to. This can be
lashed to the wind vane tower. The ring on the rudder idea is simple though
and applicable to many boats. If I can't find a suitable storage place for
the stock long enough for plan A, I may just go with it alone.

If Cecil isn't too busy packing, he should be along soon to point out that
only boats with outboard rudders that are painted yellow can be considered
seaworthy. However, I bought this boat and got stuck with it before
discovering this group and having the benifit of his wisdom and experience
so I'll just have to make do.

--
Roger Long

I like my chinese rudders.
you lift them out of the way and its no problem building a new one.

do folks actually have the rudder it self fail or is it normally some
system connected to it?
Ive had the cables or chains or hydro fail. but never had a rudder
actually fail. most times I had a mechanical back up system or a
tiller so it might have been a little inconvenient but not earth
shaking.


A friend was delivering a 40-some foot Warram cat from Phuket to
Greece a couple of years ago and lost both rudders in a storm. Sailed
that last bit of the trip with a hatch cover nailed to the wooden boom
and he sail loose footed.

As Warram designed the boat the rudders are tied on with double braid
rope and apparently the fastenings came loose.

Anyway, when he got back he had a discussion with the builder about
rudder fastenings and they are no longer on speaking terms...

So yes, rudders have been known to fall off.

Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Speaking of emergency steering
 

On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 18:26:30 -0500, "Gregory Hall"
wrote:


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
reasolutions...
"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
I saw a rudder that was filled with water, watched it drain when she was
hauled, but it didn't fail. I suppose getting hit would do it or over
time with corrosion.

I regularly inspect the cables controlled by the quadrant on my boat,
but never find anything. I'm going to pull the binnacle at some point
and lubricate.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

A water-filled rudder? That's a new one on me. I saw an ad once for a
water-filled anchor that was just the cat's pajamas. Empty it out, it's
really light. Fill it up, it gets really heavy. Fill it with fresh water
and you have an extra supply of drinking water to boot.


Well, ok... not filled but definitely had water intrusion... nice idea
though..


Did it morph into a lizard-like rudder as you watched it? Maybe the lizard
was just peeing? How much longer do you think you'll be having those
flashbacks?


What do you call the sock puppet of another sock puppet? A second-hand
sock? A re-sock? Socket? Socker? Sockette?

Or just ridiculous?
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

Speaking of emergency steering
 

"Bruce in Bangkok" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 18:26:30 -0500, "Gregory Hall"
wrote:


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
areasolutions...
"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
I saw a rudder that was filled with water, watched it drain when she
was
hauled, but it didn't fail. I suppose getting hit would do it or over
time with corrosion.

I regularly inspect the cables controlled by the quadrant on my boat,
but never find anything. I'm going to pull the binnacle at some point
and lubricate.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

A water-filled rudder? That's a new one on me. I saw an ad once for a
water-filled anchor that was just the cat's pajamas. Empty it out, it's
really light. Fill it up, it gets really heavy. Fill it with fresh
water
and you have an extra supply of drinking water to boot.


Well, ok... not filled but definitely had water intrusion... nice idea
though..


troll sh*t removed

What do you call the sock puppet of another sock puppet? A second-hand
sock? A re-sock? Socket? Socker? Sockette?

Or just ridiculous?
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)



I'd call him a jerk.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Speaking of emergency steering
 

On Feb 23, 5:16 pm, Bruce in Bangkok decypher-
wrote:
On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 18:26:30 -0500, "Gregory Hall"



wrote:

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
reasolutions...
"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
news:nY2dnZIboLJQsD7UnZ2dnUVZ_umWnZ2d@centurytel .net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
yareasolutions...
I saw a rudder that was filled with water, watched it drain when she was
hauled, but it didn't fail. I suppose getting hit would do it or over
time with corrosion.

I regularly inspect the cables controlled by the quadrant on my boat,
but never find anything. I'm going to pull the binnacle at some point
and lubricate.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

A water-filled rudder? That's a new one on me. I saw an ad once for a
water-filled anchor that was just the cat's pajamas. Empty it out, it's
really light. Fill it up, it gets really heavy. Fill it with fresh water
and you have an extra supply of drinking water to boot.

Well, ok... not filled but definitely had water intrusion... nice idea
though..

Did it morph into a lizard-like rudder as you watched it? Maybe the lizard
was just peeing? How much longer do you think you'll be having those
flashbacks?

What do you call the sock puppet of another sock puppet? A second-hand
sock? A re-sock? Socket? Socker? Sockette?

Or just ridiculous?
Cheers,

Bruce
(bruceinbangkokatgmaildotcom)

I suppose it would be miscellaneous hosiery. so hoser would work.

Speaking of emergency steering
 

On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:16:17 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:

A water-filled rudder? That's a new one on me. I saw an ad once for a
water-filled anchor that was just the cat's pajamas. Empty it out, it's
really light. Fill it up, it gets really heavy. Fill it with fresh water and
you have an extra supply of drinking water to boot.

The weight of water in water is nothing. In other words the thing will
be so bulky that its bouyancy will result in nearly no effective
weight. Anchors need to be dense as well as heavy, the weight in the
water is all that counts.

Casady

Please,someone! Go sailing and talk about it!
 

katy wrote:
Weather still not good enough here (high winds and deep draft plus
shallow water equals bad boo)
It's beginning to loo like ASAin here...

Well, I'm about to go for a boat ride. I'm sitting here in my car
waiting for the ferry to take me to town and work, does that count?

Cheers
Martin

Speaking of emergency steering
 

"Richard Casady" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:16:17 -0600, "KLC Lewis"
wrote:

A water-filled rudder? That's a new one on me. I saw an ad once for a
water-filled anchor that was just the cat's pajamas. Empty it out, it's
really light. Fill it up, it gets really heavy. Fill it with fresh water
and
you have an extra supply of drinking water to boot.

The weight of water in water is nothing. In other words the thing will
be so bulky that its bouyancy will result in nearly no effective
weight. Anchors need to be dense as well as heavy, the weight in the
water is all that counts.

Casady

Uh, yeah. That's a given, I think.