In article , -
says...
Way Back Jack wrote:

The shrewd ******* is hedging. If it fails, he can say that both sides
were for it. If it fails without support from the other side, his side
can kiss the 2010 and 2012 elections goodbye.

I predict another Dem sweep in 2010, as more and more middle class
people wake up and see the GOP for what it is, not what it says it
is. Stonewalling and whining about tax cuts is about all they're
good for right now, with a few exceptions: vulnerable Rethugs up for
reelection in 2010.

Are you trying to master stating the obvious?

Tax cuts != stimulus spending. Yet that's all the Repubs can come up
with. The Bush tax cuts were an Epic Fail, and they keep banging
that same drum. And they are opposed to productive spending that
will get the biggest return in terms of change in one year real GDP.

Compare these from Moody's Economy.com:

Lump sum tax rebate: 1.02
Temp across the board tax cut: 1.03
Temp payroll tax holiday: 1.29

Perm/extend AMT patch: .48
Bush tax cuts permanent: .29
Cap gains/div tax permanent: .37
Perm cut corporate tax rate: .30

Extend unemployment benefits: 1.64
Temp increase in food stamps: 1.73
General aid to state govt: 1.36
Increased infrastructure spending: 1.59

http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/do...the-impact-of-
the-fiscal-stimulus.pdf

Get the money out to the people who will spend it now. Corporate tax
cuts? Epic Fail in terms of stimulus.
--
Kali

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...502766_pf.html

The Fierce Urgency of Pork

(...)

And yet more damaging to Obama's image than all the hypocrisies in the
appointment process is his signature bill: the stimulus package. He
inexplicably delegated the writing to Nancy Pelosi and the barons of
the House. The product, which inevitably carries Obama's name, was not
just bad, not just flawed, but a legislative abomination.

It's not just pages and pages of special-interest tax breaks,
giveaways and protections, one of which would set off a ruinous
Smoot-Hawley trade war. It's not just the waste, such as the $88.6
million for new construction for Milwaukee Public Schools, which,
reports the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, have shrinking enrollment, 15
vacant schools and, quite logically, no plans for new construction.

It's the essential fraud of rushing through a bill in which the normal
rules (committee hearings, finding revenue to pay for the programs)
are suspended on the grounds that a national emergency requires an
immediate job-creating stimulus -- and then throwing into it hundreds
of billions that have nothing to do with stimulus, that Congress's own
budget office says won't be spent until 2011 and beyond, and that are
little more than the back-scratching, special-interest, lobby-driven
parochialism that Obama came to Washington to abolish. He said.

Not just to abolish but to create something new -- a new politics
where the moneyed pork-barreling and corrupt logrolling of the past
would give way to a bottom-up, grass-roots participatory democracy.
That is what made Obama so dazzling and new. Turns out the "fierce
urgency of now" includes $150 million for livestock (and honeybee and
farm-raised fish) insurance.

The Age of Obama begins with perhaps the greatest frenzy of
old-politics influence peddling ever seen in Washington. By the time
the stimulus bill reached the Senate, reports the Wall Street Journal,
pharmaceutical and high-tech companies were lobbying furiously for a
new plan to repatriate overseas profits that would yield major tax
savings. California wine growers and Florida citrus producers were
fighting to change a single phrase in one provision. Substituting
"planted" for "ready to market" would mean a windfall garnered from a
new "bonus depreciation" incentive.

After Obama's miraculous 2008 presidential campaign, it was clear that
at some point the magical mystery tour would have to end. The nation
would rub its eyes and begin to emerge from its reverie. The
hallucinatory Obama would give way to the mere mortal. The great
ethical transformations promised would be seen as a fairy tale that
all presidents tell -- and that this president told better than
anyone.

I thought the awakening would take six months. It took two and a half
weeks.










On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:48:47 -0500, Kali wrote:

In article , -
says...
Way Back Jack wrote:

The shrewd ******* is hedging. If it fails, he can say that both sides
were for it. If it fails without support from the other side, his side
can kiss the 2010 and 2012 elections goodbye.

I predict another Dem sweep in 2010, as more and more middle class
people wake up and see the GOP for what it is, not what it says it
is. Stonewalling and whining about tax cuts is about all they're
good for right now, with a few exceptions: vulnerable Rethugs up for
reelection in 2010.

Are you trying to master stating the obvious?

Tax cuts != stimulus spending. Yet that's all the Repubs can come up
with. The Bush tax cuts were an Epic Fail, and they keep banging
that same drum. And they are opposed to productive spending that
will get the biggest return in terms of change in one year real GDP.

Compare these from Moody's Economy.com:

Lump sum tax rebate: 1.02
Temp across the board tax cut: 1.03
Temp payroll tax holiday: 1.29

Perm/extend AMT patch: .48
Bush tax cuts permanent: .29
Cap gains/div tax permanent: .37
Perm cut corporate tax rate: .30

Extend unemployment benefits: 1.64
Temp increase in food stamps: 1.73
General aid to state govt: 1.36
Increased infrastructure spending: 1.59

http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/do...the-impact-of-
the-fiscal-stimulus.pdf

Get the money out to the people who will spend it now. Corporate tax
cuts? Epic Fail in terms of stimulus.
--
Kali

In article , top-
posted like a maroon and said...


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...502766_pf.html

The Fierce Urgency of Pork

(...)

By Charles Krauthammer. What's the matter, you can't make the
argument yourself? Any comment on the (lack of) stimulus the Rethug
tax cuts would provide? You need to stop reading "GOP Sour Grapes"
and check with some real economists.

You can start with Nobel Prize winning Paul Krugman:

NYT Blog, February 6, 2009, 1:33 pm
What all but 5 Republicans support
"Thirty-six out of 41 Republican Senators voted for the proposed
DeMint amendment to the stimulus bill — a massive package of
permanent tax cuts that would create a huge hole in the budget,
while doing very little to help the economy.

There isn’t much room for bipartisanship when 87.8% of the other
party is totally irresponsible."

Latest spending cuts:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/...uts/index.html

"Bipartisan group of senators reaches compromise on stimulus bill

Items partially cut include funds for FBI construction, federal
hybrid cars, EPA

Items entirely cut include funds for federal prisons, NASA, school
construction"

On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:48:47 -0500, Kali wrote:

In article , -
says...
Way Back Jack wrote:

The shrewd ******* is hedging. If it fails, he can say that both sides
were for it. If it fails without support from the other side, his side
can kiss the 2010 and 2012 elections goodbye.

I predict another Dem sweep in 2010, as more and more middle class
people wake up and see the GOP for what it is, not what it says it
is. Stonewalling and whining about tax cuts is about all they're
good for right now, with a few exceptions: vulnerable Rethugs up for
reelection in 2010.

Are you trying to master stating the obvious?

Tax cuts != stimulus spending. Yet that's all the Repubs can come up
with. The Bush tax cuts were an Epic Fail, and they keep banging
that same drum. And they are opposed to productive spending that
will get the biggest return in terms of change in one year real GDP.

Compare these from Moody's Economy.com:

Lump sum tax rebate: 1.02
Temp across the board tax cut: 1.03
Temp payroll tax holiday: 1.29

Perm/extend AMT patch: .48
Bush tax cuts permanent: .29
Cap gains/div tax permanent: .37
Perm cut corporate tax rate: .30

Extend unemployment benefits: 1.64
Temp increase in food stamps: 1.73
General aid to state govt: 1.36
Increased infrastructure spending: 1.59

http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/do...the-impact-of-
the-fiscal-stimulus.pdf

Get the money out to the people who will spend it now. Corporate tax
cuts? Epic Fail in terms of stimulus.
--
Kali

--
Kali

Mr. Obama would have us believe that unless they pass his 900 billion
dollar "stimulus" package immediately, our entire nation is going to
plunge into oblivion. That's right, no time to study or rationally
review anything! Just throw massive amounts of worthless money at
random targets and "hope" it all somehow gets better.

Didn't we learn anything at ALL from the last "stimulus" fiasco? More
precisely... is there anybody left in Washington with a brain? And
why the big rush Mr. President? Could it be because your "stimulus"
package is so full of pork it virtually oinks?

It's been jokingly referred to as every Democratic special interest
group's 40 Year Wish List. Most American's don't find that all that
funny. Even The Wall Street Journal said "By our estimate only $90
billion out of $825 billion, or about 12 cents of every $1, is for
something that can plausibly be considered a growth stimulus. And even
many of these projects aren't likely to help the economy immediately.
The rest is pork."

Here's some of what we can expect out of this newest spending orgy.
The only thing it will stimulate is my sense of outrage!!! What part
of THIS COUNTRY IS ALREADY BANKRUPT do they not understand?


$2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal
power plant in Illinois that the Department of Energy defunded last
year because it said the project was inefficient.
A $246 million tax break for hollywood movie producers to buy motion
picture film.
$650 million for the digital television converter box coupon program.
$88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker
(arctic ship).
$448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security
headquarters.
$248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.
$600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.
$400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent
STD's.
$1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs.
$125 million for the Washington sewer system.
$150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities.
$1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of
$3 billion.
$75 million for "smoking cessation activities."
$200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.
$75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.
$25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.
$500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.
$10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.
$6 billion to turn federal buildings into "green" buildings.
$500 million for state and local fire stations.
$650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.
$1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job
programs.
$88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health
Service.
$412 million for CDC buildings and property.
$500 million for building and repairing National Institutes of Health
facilities in Bethesda, Maryland.
$160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and
Community Service.
$5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of
Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.
$850 million for Amtrak.
$100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint.
$75 million to construct a "security training" facility for State
Department Security officers when they can be trained at existing
facilities of other agencies.
$110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.
$200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles
for use on military installations.
Oink. Oink. Oink.





On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 14:23:42 -0500, Kali wrote:

In article , top-
posted like a maroon and said...


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...502766_pf.html

The Fierce Urgency of Pork

(...)

By Charles Krauthammer. What's the matter, you can't make the
argument yourself? Any comment on the (lack of) stimulus the Rethug
tax cuts would provide? You need to stop reading "GOP Sour Grapes"
and check with some real economists.

You can start with Nobel Prize winning Paul Krugman:

NYT Blog, February 6, 2009, 1:33 pm
What all but 5 Republicans support
"Thirty-six out of 41 Republican Senators voted for the proposed
DeMint amendment to the stimulus bill — a massive package of
permanent tax cuts that would create a huge hole in the budget,
while doing very little to help the economy.

There isn’t much room for bipartisanship when 87.8% of the other
party is totally irresponsible."

Latest spending cuts:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/...uts/index.html

"Bipartisan group of senators reaches compromise on stimulus bill

Items partially cut include funds for FBI construction, federal
hybrid cars, EPA

Items entirely cut include funds for federal prisons, NASA, school
construction"

On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 12:48:47 -0500, Kali wrote:

In article , -
says...
Way Back Jack wrote:

The shrewd ******* is hedging. If it fails, he can say that both sides
were for it. If it fails without support from the other side, his side
can kiss the 2010 and 2012 elections goodbye.

I predict another Dem sweep in 2010, as more and more middle class
people wake up and see the GOP for what it is, not what it says it
is. Stonewalling and whining about tax cuts is about all they're
good for right now, with a few exceptions: vulnerable Rethugs up for
reelection in 2010.

Are you trying to master stating the obvious?

Tax cuts != stimulus spending. Yet that's all the Repubs can come up
with. The Bush tax cuts were an Epic Fail, and they keep banging
that same drum. And they are opposed to productive spending that
will get the biggest return in terms of change in one year real GDP.

Compare these from Moody's Economy.com:

Lump sum tax rebate: 1.02
Temp across the board tax cut: 1.03
Temp payroll tax holiday: 1.29

Perm/extend AMT patch: .48
Bush tax cuts permanent: .29
Cap gains/div tax permanent: .37
Perm cut corporate tax rate: .30

Extend unemployment benefits: 1.64
Temp increase in food stamps: 1.73
General aid to state govt: 1.36
Increased infrastructure spending: 1.59

http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/do...the-impact-of-
the-fiscal-stimulus.pdf

Get the money out to the people who will spend it now. Corporate tax
cuts? Epic Fail in terms of stimulus.
--
Kali

--
Kali

On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 14:23:42 -0500, Kali wrote:


You can start with Nobel Prize winning Paul Krugman:

Not intersted in socialist economists.

But can understand why those of you tit suckers who want Uncle Sugar
to pay for abortions, sex ed, child care, job-finding assistance would
be.

Surprised you don't want the government to provide you with a personal
trainer and a masseuse.

In article , says...
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 14:23:42 -0500, Kali wrote:


You can start with Nobel Prize winning Paul Krugman:

Not intersted in socialist economists.

He isn't a socialist, he is a liberal.

But can understand why those of you tit suckers who want Uncle Sugar
to pay for abortions, sex ed, child care, job-finding assistance would
be.

Surprised you don't want the government to provide you with a personal
trainer and a masseuse.

Here's a very easily understood primer on the conflict:

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/...n2009/db200901
27_702149.htm?campaign_id=rss_topStories

I'll stick with the guy who saw all of this coming a long time ago;
the guy who won a Nobel Prize; an eminent scholar of the Great
Depression. Hopefully there will be enough spending to really get
the economy going again.

You can go ahead and insist on tax cuts only or the extreme
conservative view: do nothing. But I think something is going to be
done, regardless. Personally I think the GOP should sit down and
STFU after what they've dragged us through economically, but I fear
Obama will put the appearance of bipartisanship over all else.

In a couple of years we'll know if Moody's multipliers are correct -
they are less generous on the effect of tax cuts than Obama's team's
multipliers.

Lump sum tax rebate: 1.02
Temp across the board tax cut: 1.03
Temp payroll tax holiday: 1.29

Perm/extend AMT patch: .48
Bush tax cuts permanent: .29
Cap gains/div tax permanent: .37
Perm cut corporate tax rate: .30

Extend unemployment benefits: 1.64
Temp increase in food stamps: 1.73
General aid to state govt: 1.36
Increased infrastructure spending: 1.59

http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/do...the-impact-of-
the-fiscal-stimulus.pdf

[... and another dumbass wingnut greggie sock goes into the bin.]
--
Kali

“This is not a stimulus bill; it is a spending bill.”
-Sen. John McCain

“What do you think a stimulus is? Spending, that is the whole
point.” -Pres. Barack Obama

On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:39:55 -0500, Kali wrote:

In article , says...
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 14:23:42 -0500, Kali wrote:


You can start with Nobel Prize winning Paul Krugman:

Not intersted in socialist economists.

He isn't a socialist, he is a liberal.

Yup.

Classic liberalism of the Founders has devolved into a 180.

But can understand why those of you tit suckers who want Uncle Sugar
to pay for abortions, sex ed, child care, job-finding assistance would
be.

Surprised you don't want the government to provide you with a personal
trainer and a masseuse.

Here's a very easily understood primer on the conflict:

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/...n2009/db200901
27_702149.htm?campaign_id=rss_topStories

I'll stick with the guy who saw all of this coming a long time ago;
the guy who won a Nobel Prize; an eminent scholar of the Great
Depression. Hopefully there will be enough spending to really get
the economy going again.

You can go ahead and insist on tax cuts only or the extreme
conservative view: do nothing. But I think something is going to be
done, regardless. Personally I think the GOP should sit down and
STFU after what they've dragged us through economically, but I fear
Obama will put the appearance of bipartisanship over all else.

In a couple of years we'll know if Moody's multipliers are correct -
they are less generous on the effect of tax cuts than Obama's team's
multipliers.

Lump sum tax rebate: 1.02
Temp across the board tax cut: 1.03
Temp payroll tax holiday: 1.29

Perm/extend AMT patch: .48
Bush tax cuts permanent: .29
Cap gains/div tax permanent: .37
Perm cut corporate tax rate: .30

Extend unemployment benefits: 1.64
Temp increase in food stamps: 1.73
General aid to state govt: 1.36
Increased infrastructure spending: 1.59

http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/do...the-impact-of-
the-fiscal-stimulus.pdf

[... and another dumbass wingnut greggie sock goes into the bin.]
--
Kali

“This is not a stimulus bill; it is a spending bill.”
-Sen. John McCain

“What do you think a stimulus is? Spending, that is the whole
point.” -Pres. Barack Obama

Spending that won't achieve the desired end.

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=10147

Mr. Obama would have us believe that unless they pass his 900 billion
dollar "stimulus" package immediately, our entire nation is going to
plunge into oblivion. That's right, no time to study or rationally
review anything! Just throw massive amounts of worthless money at
random targets and "hope" it all somehow gets better.

Didn't we learn anything at ALL from the last "stimulus" fiasco? More
precisely... is there anybody left in Washington with a brain? And
why the big rush Mr. President? Could it be because your "stimulus"
package is so full of pork it virtually oinks?

It's been jokingly referred to as every Democratic special interest
group's 40 Year Wish List. Most American's don't find that all that
funny. Even The Wall Street Journal said "By our estimate only $90
billion out of $825 billion, or about 12 cents of every $1, is for
something that can plausibly be considered a growth stimulus. And even
many of these projects aren't likely to help the economy immediately.
The rest is pork."

Here's some of what we can expect out of this newest spending orgy.
The only thing it will stimulate is my sense of outrage!!! What part
of THIS COUNTRY IS ALREADY BANKRUPT do they not understand?


$2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal
power plant in Illinois that the Department of Energy defunded last
year because it said the project was inefficient.
A $246 million tax break for hollywood movie producers to buy motion
picture film.
$650 million for the digital television converter box coupon program.
$88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker
(arctic ship).
$448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security
headquarters.
$248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.
$600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.
$400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent
STD's.
$1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs.
$125 million for the Washington sewer system.
$150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities.
$1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of
$3 billion.
$75 million for "smoking cessation activities."
$200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.
$75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.
$25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.
$500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.
$10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.
$6 billion to turn federal buildings into "green" buildings.
$500 million for state and local fire stations.
$650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.
$1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job
programs.
$88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health
Service.
$412 million for CDC buildings and property.
$500 million for building and repairing National Institutes of Health
facilities in Bethesda, Maryland.
$160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and
Community Service.
$5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of
Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.
$850 million for Amtrak.
$100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint.
$75 million to construct a "security training" facility for State
Department Security officers when they can be trained at existing
facilities of other agencies.
$110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.
$200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles
for use on military installations.
Oink. Oink. Oink.

On Feb 7, 4:54 pm, (Way Back Jack) wrote:
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:39:55 -0500, Kali wrote:
In article , says...
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 14:23:42 -0500, Kali wrote:

You can start with Nobel Prize winning Paul Krugman:

Not intersted in socialist economists.

He isn't a socialist, he is a liberal.

Yup.

Classic liberalism of the Founders has devolved into a 180.



But can understand why those of you tit suckers who want Uncle Sugar
to pay for abortions, sex ed, child care, job-finding assistance would
be.

Surprised you don't want the government to provide you with a personal
trainer and a masseuse.

Here's a very easily understood primer on the conflict:

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/...n2009/db200901
27_702149.htm?campaign_id=rss_topStories

I'll stick with the guy who saw all of this coming a long time ago;
the guy who won a Nobel Prize; an eminent scholar of the Great
Depression. Hopefully there will be enough spending to really get
the economy going again.

You can go ahead and insist on tax cuts only or the extreme
conservative view: do nothing. But I think something is going to be
done, regardless. Personally I think the GOP should sit down and
STFU after what they've dragged us through economically, but I fear
Obama will put the appearance of bipartisanship over all else.

In a couple of years we'll know if Moody's multipliers are correct -
they are less generous on the effect of tax cuts than Obama's team's
multipliers.

Lump sum tax rebate: 1.02
Temp across the board tax cut: 1.03
Temp payroll tax holiday: 1.29

Perm/extend AMT patch: .48
Bush tax cuts permanent: .29
Cap gains/div tax permanent: .37
Perm cut corporate tax rate: .30

Extend unemployment benefits: 1.64
Temp increase in food stamps: 1.73
General aid to state govt: 1.36
Increased infrastructure spending: 1.59

http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/do...the-impact-of-
the-fiscal-stimulus.pdf

[... and another dumbass wingnut greggie sock goes into the bin.]
--
Kali

“This is not a stimulus bill; it is a spending bill.”
-Sen. John McCain

“What do you think a stimulus is? Spending, that is the whole
point.” -Pres. Barack Obama

Spending that won't achieve the desired end.

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=10147

Mr. Obama would have us believe that unless they pass his 900 billion
dollar "stimulus" package immediately, our entire nation is going to
plunge into oblivion. That's right, no time to study or rationally
review anything! Just throw massive amounts of worthless money at
random targets and "hope" it all somehow gets better.

Didn't we learn anything at ALL from the last "stimulus" fiasco? More
precisely... is there anybody left in Washington with a brain? And
why the big rush Mr. President? Could it be because your "stimulus"
package is so full of pork it virtually oinks?

It's been jokingly referred to as every Democratic special interest
group's 40 Year Wish List. Most American's don't find that all that
funny. Even The Wall Street Journal said "By our estimate only $90
billion out of $825 billion, or about 12 cents of every $1, is for
something that can plausibly be considered a growth stimulus. And even
many of these projects aren't likely to help the economy immediately.
The rest is pork."

Here's some of what we can expect out of this newest spending orgy.
The only thing it will stimulate is my sense of outrage!!! What part
of THIS COUNTRY IS ALREADY BANKRUPT do they not understand?

$2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal
power plant in Illinois that the Department of Energy defunded last
year because it said the project was inefficient.
A $246 million tax break for hollywood movie producers to buy motion
picture film.
$650 million for the digital television converter box coupon program.
$88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker
(arctic ship).
$448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security
headquarters.
$248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.
$600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.
$400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent
STD's.
$1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs.
$125 million for the Washington sewer system.
$150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities.
$1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of
$3 billion.
$75 million for "smoking cessation activities."
$200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.
$75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.
$25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.
$500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.
$10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.
$6 billion to turn federal buildings into "green" buildings.
$500 million for state and local fire stations.
$650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.
$1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job
programs.
$88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health
Service.
$412 million for CDC buildings and property.
$500 million for building and repairing National Institutes of Health
facilities in Bethesda, Maryland.
$160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and
Community Service.
$5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of
Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.
$850 million for Amtrak.
$100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint.
$75 million to construct a "security training" facility for State
Department Security officers when they can be trained at existing
facilities of other agencies.
$110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.
$200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles
for use on military installations.
Oink. Oink. Oink.

Yeah, that's a liberal trick. Kinda like the bridge to nowhere.

In article ,
says...
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 16:39:55 -0500, Kali wrote:

In article , says...
On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 14:23:42 -0500, Kali wrote:


You can start with Nobel Prize winning Paul Krugman:

Not intersted in socialist economists.

He isn't a socialist, he is a liberal.

Yup.

Classic liberalism of the Founders has devolved into a 180.

Wrong.

But can understand why those of you tit suckers who want Uncle Sugar
to pay for abortions, sex ed, child care, job-finding assistance would
be.

Surprised you don't want the government to provide you with a personal
trainer and a masseuse.

Here's a very easily understood primer on the conflict:

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/...n2009/db200901
27_702149.htm?campaign_id=rss_topStories

I'll stick with the guy who saw all of this coming a long time ago;
the guy who won a Nobel Prize; an eminent scholar of the Great
Depression. Hopefully there will be enough spending to really get
the economy going again.

You can go ahead and insist on tax cuts only or the extreme
conservative view: do nothing. But I think something is going to be
done, regardless. Personally I think the GOP should sit down and
STFU after what they've dragged us through economically, but I fear
Obama will put the appearance of bipartisanship over all else.

In a couple of years we'll know if Moody's multipliers are correct -
they are less generous on the effect of tax cuts than Obama's team's
multipliers.

Lump sum tax rebate: 1.02
Temp across the board tax cut: 1.03
Temp payroll tax holiday: 1.29

Perm/extend AMT patch: .48
Bush tax cuts permanent: .29
Cap gains/div tax permanent: .37
Perm cut corporate tax rate: .30

Extend unemployment benefits: 1.64
Temp increase in food stamps: 1.73
General aid to state govt: 1.36
Increased infrastructure spending: 1.59

http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/do...the-impact-of-
the-fiscal-stimulus.pdf

[... and another dumbass wingnut greggie sock goes into the bin.]
--
Kali

“This is not a stimulus bill; it is a spending bill.”
-Sen. John McCain

“What do you think a stimulus is? Spending, that is the whole
point.” -Pres. Barack Obama

Spending that won't achieve the desired end.

Spending what on what? What is your claim?

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=10147

A conservative blog, presumably one that backs up your views. Is he
smarter than you are? That's nice, but do you need to tell your
buddy here that if he can't figure out why govt spending on
infrastructure creates jobs and stimulates the economy, he needs to
do a lot more reading and a lot less writing (whining). Also, some
of the items listed have already been cut out.

Mr. Obama would have us believe that unless they pass his 900 billion
dollar "stimulus" package immediately, our entire nation is going to
plunge into oblivion. That's right, no time to study or rationally
review anything! Just throw massive amounts of worthless money at
random targets and "hope" it all somehow gets better.

Didn't we learn anything at ALL from the last "stimulus" fiasco? More
precisely... is there anybody left in Washington with a brain? And
why the big rush Mr. President? Could it be because your "stimulus"
package is so full of pork it virtually oinks?

It's been jokingly referred to as every Democratic special interest
group's 40 Year Wish List. Most American's don't find that all that
funny. Even The Wall Street Journal said "By our estimate only $90
billion out of $825 billion, or about 12 cents of every $1, is for
something that can plausibly be considered a growth stimulus. And even
many of these projects aren't likely to help the economy immediately.
The rest is pork."

Here's some of what we can expect out of this newest spending orgy.
The only thing it will stimulate is my sense of outrage!!! What part
of THIS COUNTRY IS ALREADY BANKRUPT do they not understand?


$2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal
power plant in Illinois that the Department of Energy defunded last
year because it said the project was inefficient.
A $246 million tax break for hollywood movie producers to buy motion
picture film.
$650 million for the digital television converter box coupon program.
$88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker
(arctic ship).
$448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security
headquarters.
$248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.
$600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.
$400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent
STD's.
$1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs.
$125 million for the Washington sewer system.
$150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities.
$1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of
$3 billion.
$75 million for "smoking cessation activities."
$200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.
$75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.
$25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.
$500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.
$10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.
$6 billion to turn federal buildings into "green" buildings.
$500 million for state and local fire stations.
$650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.
$1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job
programs.
$88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health
Service.
$412 million for CDC buildings and property.
$500 million for building and repairing National Institutes of Health
facilities in Bethesda, Maryland.
$160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and
Community Service.
$5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of
Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.
$850 million for Amtrak.
$100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint.
$75 million to construct a "security training" facility for State
Department Security officers when they can be trained at existing
facilities of other agencies.
$110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.
$200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles
for use on military installations.
Oink. Oink. Oink.


--
Kali

“This is not a stimulus bill; it is a spending bill.”
-Sen. John McCain

“What do you think a stimulus is? Spending, that is the whole
point.” -Pres. Barack Obama

On 07 Feb 2009 20:59:38 GMT, Robb wrote:

Restless wrote:

On Sat, 7 Feb 2009 14:23:42 -0500, Kali wrote:


You can start with Nobel Prize winning Paul Krugman:

Not intersted in socialist economists.

More like disenchanted with life. You do know an "economist" is nothing
special, except for the specialized education, anyone can be one, no
license required.

Tell it to the other idiot who worships at his altar.

But can understand why those of you tit suckers who want Uncle Sugar to
pay for abortions, sex ed, child care, job-finding assistance would be.

Surprised you don't want the government to provide you with a personal
trainer and a masseuse.

How far was your jump to conclusion?

Read the other idiot's wish list.