Stephen Trapani wrote:
Rosalie B. wrote:

In article , Stephen Trapani
wrote:

Well, I hope I don't turn into the guy who asks all the nutty questions,
but wouldn't the right sort of hatch or port facing forward in the cabin
of a sailboat make it safer to be below using an autopilot? Why don't
sail designers do more of this? Isn't it possible to make it seaworthy?


What is unsafe about using an autopilot? What is unsafe about being
below when underway whether using an autopilot or not?

Well, if no one is at the helm, everyone below, with no forward facing
port/hatch, one can't see where one is going and what is in front of
them. Can't that be unsafe?

Unless you are single handing somewhere offshore, someone is always at
the helm, whether with autopilot or not. All the autopilot does is
keep you from having to have your hands on the wheel all the time. For
the two of us, someone is always in the cockpit keeping the watch. If
one of us has to go below - the other one is in the cockpit.

I'd suggest that you either need a center cockpit boat with a bimini
and enclosure around the cockpit like ours in which we do most of our
living in the cockpit going below only to sleep when we are off watch
(or to use the facilities or cook which doesn't take long), or
probably better for your purposes - a pilothouse.

The other possibility is to have radar where the screen swivels down
into the cabin or out into the cockpit. Probably would be useful to
have in Puget Sound anyway.



grandma Rosalie

Rosalie B. wrote:
Stephen Trapani wrote:

Rosalie B. wrote:

In article , Stephen Trapani
wrote:


Well, I hope I don't turn into the guy who asks all the nutty questions,
but wouldn't the right sort of hatch or port facing forward in the cabin
of a sailboat make it safer to be below using an autopilot? Why don't
sail designers do more of this? Isn't it possible to make it seaworthy?


What is unsafe about using an autopilot? What is unsafe about being
below when underway whether using an autopilot or not?

Well, if no one is at the helm, everyone below, with no forward facing
port/hatch, one can't see where one is going and what is in front of
them. Can't that be unsafe?


Unless you are single handing somewhere offshore, someone is always at
the helm, whether with autopilot or not. All the autopilot does is
keep you from having to have your hands on the wheel all the time. For
the two of us, someone is always in the cockpit keeping the watch. If
one of us has to go below - the other one is in the cockpit.

I'd suggest that you either need a center cockpit boat with a bimini
and enclosure around the cockpit like ours in which we do most of our
living in the cockpit going below only to sleep when we are off watch
(or to use the facilities or cook which doesn't take long), or
probably better for your purposes - a pilothouse.

The other possibility is to have radar where the screen swivels down
into the cabin or out into the cockpit. Probably would be useful to
have in Puget Sound anyway.

Hey thanks for the advice. I really would like a good Bimini, dodger
setup, somehow, to stay out of the rain. The aft stay is right above my
head at the helm, so I have my doubts.

On the other hand I've spent *much* time in foul weather gear, both on
boats and ashore, and that doesn't bother me much, I don't know. -So
many decisions!

Until my finances take a bigger turn for the better, a radar, Bimini and
such seem like fond dreams for a distant future. My sailing buddy is
sewing his own canvas stuff, maybe I should have him give me lessons. sigh

Stephen

I'm gonna disagree with you slightly on this one Rosalie. I may be just
justifying how my wife and I sail, but while there is always one of us
on watch, that doesn't neccessarily mean that the on watch person never
goes below. When we're cruising along, the vane in control, no other
boat in sight and hasn't been for who know how long, it's not at all
unusual for the one of on watch to go below to use the head, make a
sandwich or cup of tea, etc. and I see no problem with this. We do use
a kitchen timer set to "ding" at us every ten minutes to remind us to
stick our head up and scan the horizon and such. In fact, we usually
use the kitchen timer anytime there's just one of us up (at least I do),
as I'm usually reading or so lost in thought, that without the reminder,
the horizon would never get checked.

Fair winds - Dan

Rosalie B. wrote:
Stephen Trapani wrote:

Rosalie B. wrote:

In article , Stephen Trapani
wrote:


Well, I hope I don't turn into the guy who asks all the nutty questions,
but wouldn't the right sort of hatch or port facing forward in the cabin
of a sailboat make it safer to be below using an autopilot? Why don't
sail designers do more of this? Isn't it possible to make it seaworthy?


What is unsafe about using an autopilot? What is unsafe about being
below when underway whether using an autopilot or not?

Well, if no one is at the helm, everyone below, with no forward facing
port/hatch, one can't see where one is going and what is in front of
them. Can't that be unsafe?


Unless you are single handing somewhere offshore, someone is always at
the helm, whether with autopilot or not. All the autopilot does is
keep you from having to have your hands on the wheel all the time. For
the two of us, someone is always in the cockpit keeping the watch. If
one of us has to go below - the other one is in the cockpit.

I'd suggest that you either need a center cockpit boat with a bimini
and enclosure around the cockpit like ours in which we do most of our
living in the cockpit going below only to sleep when we are off watch
(or to use the facilities or cook which doesn't take long), or
probably better for your purposes - a pilothouse.

The other possibility is to have radar where the screen swivels down
into the cabin or out into the cockpit. Probably would be useful to
have in Puget Sound anyway.



grandma Rosalie

--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean"
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

Dan Best wrote:

I'm gonna disagree with you slightly on this one Rosalie. I may be just
justifying how my wife and I sail, but while there is always one of us
on watch, that doesn't neccessarily mean that the on watch person never
goes below. When we're cruising along, the vane in control, no other
boat in sight and hasn't been for who know how long, it's not at all
unusual for the one of on watch to go below to use the head, make a
sandwich or cup of tea, etc. and I see no problem with this. We do use

AFAI am concerned this is the equivalent of single handing off shore.
We will go offshore, but not that far. But if he's going to sail in
Puget Sound, I don't think this is a viable option.

a kitchen timer set to "ding" at us every ten minutes to remind us to
stick our head up and scan the horizon and such. In fact, we usually
use the kitchen timer anytime there's just one of us up (at least I do),
as I'm usually reading or so lost in thought, that without the reminder,
the horizon would never get checked.

Fair winds - Dan

Rosalie B. wrote:
Stephen Trapani wrote:

Rosalie B. wrote:

In article , Stephen Trapani
wrote:


Well, I hope I don't turn into the guy who asks all the nutty questions,
but wouldn't the right sort of hatch or port facing forward in the cabin
of a sailboat make it safer to be below using an autopilot? Why don't
sail designers do more of this? Isn't it possible to make it seaworthy?


What is unsafe about using an autopilot? What is unsafe about being
below when underway whether using an autopilot or not?

Well, if no one is at the helm, everyone below, with no forward facing
port/hatch, one can't see where one is going and what is in front of
them. Can't that be unsafe?


Unless you are single handing somewhere offshore, someone is always at
the helm, whether with autopilot or not. All the autopilot does is
keep you from having to have your hands on the wheel all the time. For
the two of us, someone is always in the cockpit keeping the watch. If
one of us has to go below - the other one is in the cockpit.

I'd suggest that you either need a center cockpit boat with a bimini
and enclosure around the cockpit like ours in which we do most of our
living in the cockpit going below only to sleep when we are off watch
(or to use the facilities or cook which doesn't take long), or
probably better for your purposes - a pilothouse.

The other possibility is to have radar where the screen swivels down
into the cabin or out into the cockpit. Probably would be useful to
have in Puget Sound anyway.



grandma Rosalie

grandma Rosalie

Oops, Sorry Rosalie,
I think I misunderstood what you were saying earlier. When you said
"Unless you are single handing somewhere offshore, someone is always at
the helm, whether with autopilot or not...", I thought you were refering
to the extended time without checking that happens while single handers
are forced to sleep. An entirely different thing in my mind.

I personaly am mildly critical of long distance single handers, but only
VERY mildly. First, because I've never heard of a single hander hitting
anything and hurting anyone except themselves (and that's their own
business), 2nd, because it was probably Robin Grahams articles in
National Geographic back when I was a teen that originally put the
cruising bug under my skin, and finally because if I wasn't lucky enough
to be married to someone who enjoys sailing and cruising almost as much
as I do, there's no doubt in my mind that I'd be out there single
handing myself.

Take care - Dan

Rosalie B. wrote:
Dan Best wrote:


I'm gonna disagree with you slightly on this one Rosalie. I may be just
justifying how my wife and I sail, but while there is always one of us
on watch, that doesn't neccessarily mean that the on watch person never
goes below. When we're cruising along, the vane in control, no other
boat in sight and hasn't been for who know how long, it's not at all
unusual for the one of on watch to go below to use the head, make a
sandwich or cup of tea, etc. and I see no problem with this. We do use


AFAI am concerned this is the equivalent of single handing off shore.
We will go offshore, but not that far. But if he's going to sail in
Puget Sound, I don't think this is a viable option.


a kitchen timer set to "ding" at us every ten minutes to remind us to
stick our head up and scan the horizon and such. In fact, we usually
use the kitchen timer anytime there's just one of us up (at least I do),
as I'm usually reading or so lost in thought, that without the reminder,
the horizon would never get checked.

Fair winds - Dan

Rosalie B. wrote:

Stephen Trapani wrote:


Rosalie B. wrote:


In article , Stephen Trapani
wrote:



Well, I hope I don't turn into the guy who asks all the nutty questions,
but wouldn't the right sort of hatch or port facing forward in the cabin
of a sailboat make it safer to be below using an autopilot? Why don't
sail designers do more of this? Isn't it possible to make it seaworthy?


What is unsafe about using an autopilot? What is unsafe about being
below when underway whether using an autopilot or not?

Well, if no one is at the helm, everyone below, with no forward facing
port/hatch, one can't see where one is going and what is in front of
them. Can't that be unsafe?


Unless you are single handing somewhere offshore, someone is always at
the helm, whether with autopilot or not. All the autopilot does is
keep you from having to have your hands on the wheel all the time. For
the two of us, someone is always in the cockpit keeping the watch. If
one of us has to go below - the other one is in the cockpit.

I'd suggest that you either need a center cockpit boat with a bimini
and enclosure around the cockpit like ours in which we do most of our
living in the cockpit going below only to sleep when we are off watch
(or to use the facilities or cook which doesn't take long), or
probably better for your purposes - a pilothouse.

The other possibility is to have radar where the screen swivels down
into the cabin or out into the cockpit. Probably would be useful to
have in Puget Sound anyway.



grandma Rosalie


grandma Rosalie

--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean"
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

Here's a link to an appeal court's ruling that I found interesting because it is
a rare case where a boat was found 100% at fault, rather than shared blame. The
sailboat, Coyote, is the vessel Mike Plant disappeared from when the keel fell
off. His fiancée inherited the boat and chartered it to Dave Scully, who bumped
it into a fishing boat on a qualifying run. Scully was found 100% at fault, for
not having a lookout or proper lights.

http://www.law.emory.edu/4circuit/dec97/961209.p.html

I also have mixed feelings about single hand racers. However, during actual
events there doesn't seem to be much of a problem. On the other hand, I've a
number of close calls where a sport fisherman was going at 30 knots towards the
same waypoint without anyone on the bridge.



"Dan Best" wrote in message
news:MhSwc.62268$Ly.45902@attbi_s01...
Oops, Sorry Rosalie,
I think I misunderstood what you were saying earlier. When you said
"Unless you are single handing somewhere offshore, someone is always at
the helm, whether with autopilot or not...", I thought you were refering
to the extended time without checking that happens while single handers
are forced to sleep. An entirely different thing in my mind.

I personaly am mildly critical of long distance single handers, but only
VERY mildly. First, because I've never heard of a single hander hitting
anything and hurting anyone except themselves (and that's their own
business), 2nd, because it was probably Robin Grahams articles in
National Geographic back when I was a teen that originally put the
cruising bug under my skin, and finally because if I wasn't lucky enough
to be married to someone who enjoys sailing and cruising almost as much
as I do, there's no doubt in my mind that I'd be out there single
handing myself.

Take care - Dan

Rosalie B. wrote:
Dan Best wrote:


I'm gonna disagree with you slightly on this one Rosalie. I may be just
justifying how my wife and I sail, but while there is always one of us
on watch, that doesn't neccessarily mean that the on watch person never
goes below. When we're cruising along, the vane in control, no other
boat in sight and hasn't been for who know how long, it's not at all
unusual for the one of on watch to go below to use the head, make a
sandwich or cup of tea, etc. and I see no problem with this. We do use


AFAI am concerned this is the equivalent of single handing off shore.
We will go offshore, but not that far. But if he's going to sail in
Puget Sound, I don't think this is a viable option.


a kitchen timer set to "ding" at us every ten minutes to remind us to
stick our head up and scan the horizon and such. In fact, we usually
use the kitchen timer anytime there's just one of us up (at least I do),
as I'm usually reading or so lost in thought, that without the reminder,
the horizon would never get checked.

Fair winds - Dan

Rosalie B. wrote:

Stephen Trapani wrote:


Rosalie B. wrote:


In article , Stephen Trapani
wrote:



Well, I hope I don't turn into the guy who asks all the nutty
questions,
but wouldn't the right sort of hatch or port facing forward in the
cabin
of a sailboat make it safer to be below using an autopilot? Why don't
sail designers do more of this? Isn't it possible to make it seaworthy?


What is unsafe about using an autopilot? What is unsafe about being
below when underway whether using an autopilot or not?

Well, if no one is at the helm, everyone below, with no forward facing
port/hatch, one can't see where one is going and what is in front of
them. Can't that be unsafe?


Unless you are single handing somewhere offshore, someone is always at
the helm, whether with autopilot or not. All the autopilot does is
keep you from having to have your hands on the wheel all the time. For
the two of us, someone is always in the cockpit keeping the watch. If
one of us has to go below - the other one is in the cockpit.

I'd suggest that you either need a center cockpit boat with a bimini
and enclosure around the cockpit like ours in which we do most of our
living in the cockpit going below only to sleep when we are off watch
(or to use the facilities or cook which doesn't take long), or
probably better for your purposes - a pilothouse.

The other possibility is to have radar where the screen swivels down
into the cabin or out into the cockpit. Probably would be useful to
have in Puget Sound anyway.



grandma Rosalie


grandma Rosalie

--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean"
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

"Jeff Morris" wrote:

Here's a link to an appeal court's ruling that I found interesting because it is
a rare case where a boat was found 100% at fault, rather than shared blame. The
sailboat, Coyote, is the vessel Mike Plant disappeared from when the keel fell
off. His fiancée inherited the boat and chartered it to Dave Scully, who bumped
it into a fishing boat on a qualifying run. Scully was found 100% at fault, for
not having a lookout or proper lights.

http://www.law.emory.edu/4circuit/dec97/961209.p.html

I also have mixed feelings about single hand racers. However, during actual
events there doesn't seem to be much of a problem. On the other hand, I've a
number of close calls where a sport fisherman was going at 30 knots towards the
same waypoint without anyone on the bridge.

Yes - or they are talking on a cell phone and not paying attention.


"Dan Best" wrote in message
news:MhSwc.62268$Ly.45902@attbi_s01...
Oops, Sorry Rosalie,
I think I misunderstood what you were saying earlier. When you said
"Unless you are single handing somewhere offshore, someone is always at
the helm, whether with autopilot or not...", I thought you were refering
to the extended time without checking that happens while single handers
are forced to sleep. An entirely different thing in my mind.

Well I didn't make that very clear.
See incident below.

I personaly am mildly critical of long distance single handers, but only
VERY mildly. First, because I've never heard of a single hander hitting
anything and hurting anyone except themselves (and that's their own
business), 2nd, because it was probably Robin Grahams articles in
National Geographic back when I was a teen that originally put the
cruising bug under my skin, and finally because if I wasn't lucky enough
to be married to someone who enjoys sailing and cruising almost as much
as I do, there's no doubt in my mind that I'd be out there single
handing myself.

I know folks like that too

Take care - Dan

Rosalie B. wrote:
Dan Best wrote:


I'm gonna disagree with you slightly on this one Rosalie. I may be just
justifying how my wife and I sail, but while there is always one of us
on watch, that doesn't neccessarily mean that the on watch person never
goes below. When we're cruising along, the vane in control, no other
boat in sight and hasn't been for who know how long, it's not at all
unusual for the one of on watch to go below to use the head, make a
sandwich or cup of tea, etc. and I see no problem with this. We do use

I was distracted when I read this by the memories of an incident that
happened near here which was reported in both the local newspaper and
the SSCA Bulletin.

A couple - who had sailed extensively (they were SSCA Commanders) but
who were going home to New England to sell their boat because the man
of the couple had a fatal disease of some type - were on a their
Valiant 40 (IIRC) and were sailing or motor sailing up the Chesapeake
at night. I think it was spring.

[Note - I don't know why they were doing this - it seems crazy to me.
There's crab pots if nothing else. And it would be perfectly easy to
anchor someplace for the night]

He was at the helm - she was below asleep. He saw something on the
radar that he didn't understand, and went below. The newspaper
account said to get a cup of coffee and what she wrote for SSCA said
to check the chart. In any case, the boat went between a tug and a
tow and sank in less than 15 minutes. They barely escaped into a boat
with their lives - they lost everything they owned. They were picked
up very quickly (within about half an hour) by the Calvert Co.
volunteer fire department boat (which is the most astonishing part of
it if you know the Bay coast of Calvert Co.) She didn't seem grateful
enough for that IMHO.


AFAI am concerned this is the equivalent of single handing off shore.
We will go offshore, but not that far. But if he's going to sail in
Puget Sound, I don't think this is a viable option.


a kitchen timer set to "ding" at us every ten minutes to remind us to
stick our head up and scan the horizon and such. In fact, we usually
use the kitchen timer anytime there's just one of us up (at least I do),
as I'm usually reading or so lost in thought, that without the reminder,
the horizon would never get checked.

Fair winds - Dan

Rosalie B. wrote:

Stephen Trapani wrote:


Rosalie B. wrote:


In article , Stephen Trapani
wrote:



Well, I hope I don't turn into the guy who asks all the nutty
questions,
but wouldn't the right sort of hatch or port facing forward in the
cabin
of a sailboat make it safer to be below using an autopilot? Why don't
sail designers do more of this? Isn't it possible to make it seaworthy?


What is unsafe about using an autopilot? What is unsafe about being
below when underway whether using an autopilot or not?

Well, if no one is at the helm, everyone below, with no forward facing
port/hatch, one can't see where one is going and what is in front of
them. Can't that be unsafe?


Unless you are single handing somewhere offshore, someone is always at
the helm, whether with autopilot or not. All the autopilot does is
keep you from having to have your hands on the wheel all the time. For
the two of us, someone is always in the cockpit keeping the watch. If
one of us has to go below - the other one is in the cockpit.

I'd suggest that you either need a center cockpit boat with a bimini
and enclosure around the cockpit like ours in which we do most of our
living in the cockpit going below only to sleep when we are off watch
(or to use the facilities or cook which doesn't take long), or
probably better for your purposes - a pilothouse.

The other possibility is to have radar where the screen swivels down
into the cabin or out into the cockpit. Probably would be useful to
have in Puget Sound anyway.



grandma Rosalie


grandma Rosalie

--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean"
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG



grandma Rosalie