"katy" wrote in message
. com...
KLC Lewis wrote:

As for how much greenhouse effect is "just right," that is entirely
subjective.

I'm sure the dinosaurs were quite happy with the levvels of greenhouse
gasses present during their existence...as were teh whooly mammoths during
theirs. The earth changes. It always has, it always will and the living
beings on the earth either adapt or die. The onl;y difference between us
and the dinasaurs or mammoths is that we possess the hubris to think we
are capable of changing the earth to any but but slight variances. I'm not
saying that we should not be careful and guard what we do for the
preservationof our own species, but the idea that we are responsible for
global climitazation alone? The facts are that this earth is cyclical and
that it is presently entering a new cycle. Yes, clean up the mess so we
don't have to breathe it, eat it, or live in swill but realize that the
warming and cooling of the earth is beyond our control short of a nuclear
war.

Yup, that's pretty much my feelings on the matter as well. I'm entirely in
favor of converting to "clean" and "green" as much as is economically and
technologically viable, and I'm more than confident that it's a relatively
short matter of time before petroleum is consigned to history. But as you
say, these things are to be done mostly because it's in our own best
interest not to poop in the pool. I'm also confident that if there was a way
that we could extract out own energy directly from the atmosphere with no
need for power companies, power companies would still exist and find a way
to charge us for that power.

wrote in message
...
On 8 Jan 2009 11:46:02 -0600, Dave wrote:

On Thu, 08 Jan 2009 12:28:47 -0500, said:

There was a time not so long ago, when the general worldwide consensus
was that you could dump as much garbage in the oceans as you pleased
because it was so vast that it could absorb it without any ill
effects. It now appears they were wrong. Very wrong.

Ya mean the conventional wisdom of the day, the "consensus," sometimes
proves to be wrong? I'm shocked. Shocked. Could never happen to today's
scientific "consensus."

Then there was that whole "Flat Earth" thing when you were a boy.


Ya, and Pluto was a planet five years ago.

KLC Lewis wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 8 Jan 2009 11:46:02 -0600, Dave wrote:

On Thu, 08 Jan 2009 12:28:47 -0500, said:

There was a time not so long ago, when the general worldwide consensus
was that you could dump as much garbage in the oceans as you pleased
because it was so vast that it could absorb it without any ill
effects. It now appears they were wrong. Very wrong.
Ya mean the conventional wisdom of the day, the "consensus," sometimes
proves to be wrong? I'm shocked. Shocked. Could never happen to today's
scientific "consensus."
Then there was that whole "Flat Earth" thing when you were a boy.


Ya, and Pluto was a planet five years ago.


But there really is a Santa Claus....

"katy" wrote in message
. com...
KLC Lewis wrote:
Ya, and Pluto was a planet five years ago.
But there really is a Santa Claus....

Of course there is. He lives in Virginia.

"katy" wrote in message
. com...
KLC Lewis wrote:

As for how much greenhouse effect is "just right," that is entirely
subjective.

I'm sure the dinosaurs were quite happy with the levvels of greenhouse
gasses present during their existence...as were teh whooly mammoths during
theirs. The earth changes. It always has, it always will and the living
beings on the earth either adapt or die. The onl;y difference between us
and the dinasaurs or mammoths is that we possess the hubris to think we
are capable of changing the earth to any but but slight variances. I'm not
saying that we should not be careful and guard what we do for the
preservationof our own species, but the idea that we are responsible for
global climitazation alone? The facts are that this earth is cyclical and
that it is presently entering a new cycle. Yes, clean up the mess so we
don't have to breathe it, eat it, or live in swill but realize that the
warming and cooling of the earth is beyond our control short of a nuclear
war.


The dinosaurs lasted for 100M years, likely until a catastrophic event wiped
them out over a very short period of time. The changes that are being
discussed have happened over a period of less than 200 years, almost all of
it is due to the industrial revolution. There's no doubt that the earth's
climate varies a lot. There's also no doubt that the recent changes have
been dramatic. If we don't address our own pollution, we won't have to wait
very long.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

wrote in message
...
On 8 Jan 2009 11:46:02 -0600, Dave wrote:

On Thu, 08 Jan 2009 12:28:47 -0500, said:

There was a time not so long ago, when the general worldwide consensus
was that you could dump as much garbage in the oceans as you pleased
because it was so vast that it could absorb it without any ill
effects. It now appears they were wrong. Very wrong.

Ya mean the conventional wisdom of the day, the "consensus," sometimes
proves to be wrong? I'm shocked. Shocked. Could never happen to today's
scientific "consensus."

Then there was that whole "Flat Earth" thing when you were a boy.


Ya, and Pluto was a planet five years ago.



Bzzzt. Pluto is a cartoon dog.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:16:20 -0600, "KLC Lewis" said:

Ya, and Pluto was a planet five years ago.

Hell, a progressive was a liberal five years ago.


I'm a liberal and a progressive. Bush is an idiot.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...
Ya, and Pluto was a planet five years ago.



Bzzzt. Pluto is a cartoon dog.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com


So then what's Goofy?

"katy" wrote in message
. com...
KLC Lewis wrote:

Remove the money and power from the "global warming" issue and let's see
just how much "concern" remains.



At the present time, Environmental Science is being taught from an
economics standpoint in both high school and colleges in the US. That
conbtributes to the problem and obfuscates the real science that should be
studied.


Not at all. It's a reality-based approach. Environmental Science is
integrally linked to economics. Wasn't that an argument in this thread? If
you take the money away, the problem will go away, right?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Capt. JG wrote:
"katy" wrote in message
. com...
KLC Lewis wrote:

As for how much greenhouse effect is "just right," that is entirely
subjective.
I'm sure the dinosaurs were quite happy with the levvels of greenhouse
gasses present during their existence...as were teh whooly mammoths during
theirs. The earth changes. It always has, it always will and the living
beings on the earth either adapt or die. The onl;y difference between us
and the dinasaurs or mammoths is that we possess the hubris to think we
are capable of changing the earth to any but but slight variances. I'm not
saying that we should not be careful and guard what we do for the
preservationof our own species, but the idea that we are responsible for
global climitazation alone? The facts are that this earth is cyclical and
that it is presently entering a new cycle. Yes, clean up the mess so we
don't have to breathe it, eat it, or live in swill but realize that the
warming and cooling of the earth is beyond our control short of a nuclear
war.


The dinosaurs lasted for 100M years, likely until a catastrophic event wiped
them out over a very short period of time. The changes that are being
discussed have happened over a period of less than 200 years, almost all of
it is due to the industrial revolution. There's no doubt that the earth's
climate varies a lot. There's also no doubt that the recent changes have
been dramatic. If we don't address our own pollution, we won't have to wait
very long.


ANd maybe that's a good thing...