Keith nuttle wrote:
Keith nuttle wrote:
hpeer wrote:
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
http://www.dailytech.com/Article.aspx?newsid=13834

Sea ice at same levels as 1979. Another nail in the coffin of global
warming alarmists and kook believers.

Wilbur Hubbard


Wilbur,

Interesting article. It seems we have the battle of the institutes
going on here.

It seems your report is coming from the University of Illinois Arctic
Climate Research Center.

But..............

If you go to the National Snow and Ice Data Center you get a very
different picture.

They report that the ice growth period has ended with the growth being
"much slower, and should continue to slow"

They have an Arctic Ice Sea Extent graphic that compares the current
ice cover to both the 1979 to 2000 average and the 2006/7 extent.
This graph is updated daily. It shows that the ice extent is far
below the 19792-2000 average and that it matches to 2006/7 (record
low) minimum.

Then there is the additional concern that, since last years record
low, this cover is predominantly new ice (thin - low volume), not old
multi-year ice (thick - high volume.) Consequently the prediction is
that this summer will see an early breakup and further deterioration
of the overall ice cover.

Perhaps you would like to take a look for yourself at:

www.nsidc.org/articseaicenews/

Or, if you prefer, you could look to the Canadian ice site, 30 day
outlook which says (in part)

The freeze up pattern in the Gulf of Boothia region is very unusual
this year as new ice has barely started to form whereas one would
typically expect the area to be totally covered with new ice by now.

http://ice-glaces.ec.ge.ca

THEN I WENT TO THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS ARCTIC CLIMATE RESEARCH
CENTER SITE (ARCTIC.ATMOS.UIUC.EDU) AND FOUND THIS AT THE TOP OF
THEIR PAGE.

Arctic temperature trend
Recent observed surface air temperature changes over the Arctic region
are the largest in the world. Winter (DJF) rates of warming exceed 4
degrees C. over portions of the Arctic land areas (shown left). We
provide Arctic temperature trends and changes of other primary surface
variables (e.g., sea level pressure, precipitation, sea ice cover)
archived in this climate summary, portions of which are published each
year in the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society.

Sea ice extent averaged over the Northern Hemisphere has decreased
correspondingly over the past 50 years (shown right). The largest
change has been observed in the summer months with decreases exceeding
30%. Decreases observed in winter are more modest. We maintain this
updated archive of sea ice concentrations and extents at the
University of Illinois Department of Atmospheric Sciences.

Cheers
I think that what you are seeing is what the Goreilites ignore, that
there is not a consensus on global warming. Climate studies are in
their infancy, and the millions of variables involved in global weather
are not understood. When computer models take a few of the know
variable and try to predict they show trends but not necessarily the
correct trend, because all of the variables and their strength are not
included.

If you take any set of random data, and run it through the correct
program, you may find trends, but because the data is random do not exist.

There are many good sites that show the current research papers on the
climate with out gorealizing the results.



hpeer wrote:
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
http://www.dailytech.com/Article.aspx?newsid=13834

Sea ice at same levels as 1979. Another nail in the coffin of global
warming alarmists and kook believers.

Wilbur Hubbard


Wilbur,

Interesting article. It seems we have the battle of the institutes
going on here.

It seems your report is coming from the University of Illinois Arctic
Climate Research Center.

But..............

If you go to the National Snow and Ice Data Center you get a very
different picture.

They report that the ice growth period has ended with the growth being
"much slower, and should continue to slow"

They have an Arctic Ice Sea Extent graphic that compares the current
ice cover to both the 1979 to 2000 average and the 2006/7 extent.
This graph is updated daily. It shows that the ice extent is far
below the 19792-2000 average and that it matches to 2006/7 (record
low) minimum.

Then there is the additional concern that, since last years record
low, this cover is predominantly new ice (thin - low volume), not old
multi-year ice (thick - high volume.) Consequently the prediction is
that this summer will see an early breakup and further deterioration
of the overall ice cover.

Perhaps you would like to take a look for yourself at:

www.nsidc.org/articseaicenews/

Or, if you prefer, you could look to the Canadian ice site, 30 day
outlook which says (in part)

The freeze up pattern in the Gulf of Boothia region is very unusual
this year as new ice has barely started to form whereas one would
typically expect the area to be totally covered with new ice by now.

http://ice-glaces.ec.ge.ca

THEN I WENT TO THE UNIVERSITY OF ILLINOIS ARCTIC CLIMATE RESEARCH
CENTER SITE (ARCTIC.ATMOS.UIUC.EDU) AND FOUND THIS AT THE TOP OF
THEIR PAGE.

Arctic temperature trend
Recent observed surface air temperature changes over the Arctic region
are the largest in the world. Winter (DJF) rates of warming exceed 4
degrees C. over portions of the Arctic land areas (shown left). We
provide Arctic temperature trends and changes of other primary surface
variables (e.g., sea level pressure, precipitation, sea ice cover)
archived in this climate summary, portions of which are published each
year in the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society.

Sea ice extent averaged over the Northern Hemisphere has decreased
correspondingly over the past 50 years (shown right). The largest
change has been observed in the summer months with decreases exceeding
30%. Decreases observed in winter are more modest. We maintain this
updated archive of sea ice concentrations and extents at the
University of Illinois Department of Atmospheric Sciences.

Cheers
I think that what you are seeing is what the Goreilites ignore, that
there is not a consensus on global warming. Climate studies are in
their infancy, and the millions of variables involved in global weather
are not understood. When computer models take a few of the know
variable and try to predict they show trends but not necessarily the
correct trend, because all of the variables and their strength are not
included.

If you take any set of random data, and run it through the correct
program, you may find trends, but because the data is random do not exist.

There are many good sites that show the current research papers on the
climate with out gorealizing the results.



To hell with Gore. Never saw the movie and don't care to. Gore is
trying to sensationalize it and goad people into action. He is only for
the converted. He is NOT a source authoritative info.

Still, my take on this is that serious researchers converge on there
being significant global warming. The conversation has moved from "if"
to "how sever."

I have been following this topic on another site for some time. There
has been a LOT of rancor over whether or not GW is happening. For what
it is worth I have been convinced that it is an issue of concern.

Take a look at the sites I listed above. They are mainstream government
programs.