On Thu, 27 May 2004 10:26:57 -0400, "Skip Gundlach"
skipgundlach.sez.remove.this.and.the.dots.to.mail
wrote:

Life is what happens when you're making other plans...

Most of you know that Lydia and I have bought our boat and expect to get
aboard and cut the cords. Target departure date is November 1, with a
[...]
partly drive our decision, should we decide to go ahead. Either way, if I
go under the knife, we'll not be outta here in November as we'd planned. If
I don't, my arm will never be better than it is today...

Not to get into the medical details but a couple of years ago I lost
some use of my right arm. There was no pain at all but I was unable to
raise it up and could definitly not lift anything above my head. I
couldn't even lift my right arm up to the steering wheel of a car. I
had to use my left had to lift my right arm and place it on the wheel.
Once there, I could use it fine to drive but I'd use my left to do most
of the steering. And while I couldn't even lift my arm above my head,
hauling in an anchor was not a problem.

Anyway, I did try sailing a few times in that condition and found that,
while it's possible, it really slowed me down in doing a lot of things.
My boat is mostly manual operation though, not even a roller furler. I
could do everything I needed to do but some things, like just lifting
the headsail from below out onto the foredeck through a hatch, were a
real problem.

I love single handing but decided not to do that until I got better
since I didn't want to get stuck in an emergency situation alone that I
couldn't deal with due to my arm. It would take me at least twice as
long to reef a sail since there's a lot of overhead work involved.
There's just about nothing I can't handle alone when in good shape. It
took about a year for my arm to get back into shape enough that I'd
consider sailing alone again for more than a day sail.

So, my advice to you is to get your arm back at least to the point where
you can function before going on an extended cruise. Day to day
activities may be no problem. But you'll want to have use of both arms
when the sh*t hits the fan.

Steve

Hi, Stephen, and group...

"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
...
Skip Gundlach wrote:

My preference is to wait until, say, September, and get a good long
rehab
before making the boat as perfect as we can, and heading out November
05.
That would also get us past the requirement to come back from wherever
we
were to see her son graduate in December :{))

Good long rehab sounds good. How long it needs to be depends greatly
upon how much you will be required to use it and when. This depends I
guess, on your style of boating and your crew's/wife's strength. For
example if you will not be required to use the shoulder heavily *at all*
you could easily bring along an exercise device or two and continue the
latter half of the rehab during your travels.

Our style is very active. Noting, of course, that this year and the two
before, I was without full use of my shoulder... However, this year, during
our shakedown cruise, we were fortunate enough to be offered some heavy
weather - nothing really threatening, but very lumpy and windy, to which we
eagerly looked forward. The good news is we had a blast. However... My
attempts to get something to hang on to while in the bouncing dink off the
stern, pending the manual letdown of the 15HP, for which I'd want my good
hand free, was a wake-up call to the complacency which had developed.
Meanwhile, I've been wanting to go back for a couple of years, but had to
wait for the pre-existing condition period to elapse for insurance purposes,
so have had a long time to consider this. Unfortunately for my planning, it
never occurred to me that the first operation might have simply failed
altogether. I got complacent about thinking how long I'd be in rehab,
expecting either that I'd not have any hope ("sorry, nerve damage, can't fix
it") or something simple ("yeah, you've got some adhesion there, we'll slice
it off so it moves again and off you go to rehab").


The primary two keys to rehab a

1)Protection from excess forces (which should first be very great and
*gradually* decrease as healing occurs

2)Introduction of movement and force (which should start off very light
and *gradually* increase as healing/strengthening occurs).

Failure in the correct starting point and gradual progress of either of
these are pretty much the only causes of rehab failure. Often one
mistake is all it takes, but if you can avoid that one mistake you can
rehab pretty much anywhere.

Word is, now, having heard back from them, it's a couple of weeks of just
motion exercises, and if that is successful, then 4 more weeks of increasing
that to the point where I'm then sent off to rehab, without having to have
the arm restricted. Expect 6 months for comfortable use, and improvement as
far out as 18 months. I don't know how or why the first one failed.
Certainly, I didn't experience any pain that I could associate with it. The
operative report suggested that the bone wasn't hard enough to use the screw
anchors they'd originally expected, and so did drill holes and sutures.
Whether those failed, or the attachment never took, or the tendon tore at
the stitch, I don't know. However, I'm going to be pretty aggressive about
my rehab and following the recommendations of the surgeon. If he can bring
major leaguers back from pitching injuries, I figure I can get it happening,
too. However, there's still only a tossup chance that I'll have
improvement. I'll just have to make sure that I don't do anything to
jeopardize the chances...

Thanks for the input...

L8R

Skip

--

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2

"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a
clear night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize
that you are quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to
you that in the general scheme of things you are merely an
insignificant speck on the surface of the ocean; and are not nearly
so important or as self-sufficient as you thought you were. Which is
an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one that may effect a
permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly appreciated
by your friends." - James S. Pitkin

Hi, Rosalie, and group,

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
"Skip Gundlach"
skipgundlach.sez.remove.this.and.the.dots.to.mail
wrote:

Life is what happens when you're making other plans...

Most of you know that Lydia and I have bought our boat and expect to get
aboard and cut the cords. Target departure date is November 1, with a
variety of things to happen first, including getting a couple of houses
(emptied and) sold. Progress is happening at an acceptable pace, there,
but
just as Lydia was fixated on getting the boat bought, she's now fixated
on
getting aboard, *NOW!*. I, too, want to get aboard, but deal with
frustration a bit better than she :{))

clip...

My husband fell off/onto a ladder and broke his humerus at the
shoulder joint and his elbow (on the two runs of the ladder). He

OW!!!

drove himself to the hospital (because I was in KY and our son was on
14) and they said he might never have full use of his arm/shoulder or
ever be able to raise his arm above shoulder level again. However -
they took him up to Bethesda (USN ret) and put a cast on it and then
he had about a year of physical therapy and now he has full use of the
shoulder. He's still in touch with his physical therapist (who was a
Navy Corpsman at the time).

Cool. Good to have competent help. I believe I did *not* get that the
first time around - I was part of a public hospital system with mostly
charity patients, and wasn't happy at the time with any of the experience.
I believe I had competent care and surgery - but I also believe the followup
should have caught this, and for that, I was very poorly served. In any
event, I've (now) got the best shoulder surgeon available, from all I can
discern, so I'm confident we're giving it our best shot at this time.
Unfortunately, that best shot is only a crapshoot, with a 50-50 likelihood
of success. Fortunately, it can't be made worse...

I think Lydia ought to chill and consider your health first.

Well, the health (with the possible exception of the mental part) will be
well taken care of. However, she's not the least bit interested in (well,
let me rephrase that: adamantly opposed to) any delay whatsoever. And,
aside from my ability to do, physically, more to get us out of town, now,
waiting will only make things later. We'll not be able to go on our
preferred schedule, as rehab won't be to the point where I could leave any
sooner than January or so, at best, if we go on the current schedule
(surgery 15Jun), as it is. So, I guess I'll just have to bite the bullet
and hire the help rather than do it myself. One way or the other, whenever
we are able, however, we'll get aboard. It will just have to be later and
more expensive (but then, what, in boating, isn't??).

L8R (in spades!)

Skip


grandma Rosalie
--

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2

"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a
clear night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize
that you are quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to
you that in the general scheme of things you are merely an
insignificant speck on the surface of the ocean; and are not nearly
so important or as self-sufficient as you thought you were. Which is
an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one that may effect a
permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly appreciated
by your friends." - James S. Pitkin

Hi, Bruce, and crowd :{))

"The Sanity Inspector" wrote in message
...
You'll be consulting different surgeons this time, I trust.
Good luck.

Thanks. Actually, I think I had a good surgical team the first time. You
may recall the discussions in this space at the time, where I was trying to
figure out how to make it happen. As chance would have it, my current
surgeon consulted with the team at Emory, as the resident I drew at Grady
happened to have interned with him for year, and called him over to look at
the films one day. However, I think the followup care really sucked, and
looking back on it, it's quite possible that my persistent pain was a
product of this failing. I think they, and the rehab folks, should have
caught it.

However, this time around, I've got the top shoulder guy in the southeast
directly, along with his staff. If it can't happen here, I don't think it
can happen...

Thanks for the interest :{))

L8R

Skip
--

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2

"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a
clear night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize
that you are quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to
you that in the general scheme of things you are merely an
insignificant speck on the surface of the ocean; and are not nearly
so important or as self-sufficient as you thought you were. Which is
an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one that may effect a
permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly appreciated
by your friends." - James S. Pitkin

Hi, Steve, and Group...

"Steven Shelikoff" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 May 2004 10:26:57 -0400, "Skip Gundlach"
skipgundlach.sez.remove.this.and.the.dots.to.mail
wrote:

Life is what happens when you're making other plans...

Most of you know that Lydia and I have bought our boat and expect to get
aboard and cut the cords. Target departure date is November 1, with a
[...]
partly drive our decision, should we decide to go ahead. Either way, if
I
go under the knife, we'll not be outta here in November as we'd planned.
If
I don't, my arm will never be better than it is today...

Not to get into the medical details but a couple of years ago I lost
some use of my right arm. There was no pain at all but I was unable to
raise it up and could definitly not lift anything above my head. I
couldn't even lift my right arm up to the steering wheel of a car. I
had to use my left had to lift my right arm and place it on the wheel.
Once there, I could use it fine to drive but I'd use my left to do most
of the steering. And while I couldn't even lift my arm above my head,
hauling in an anchor was not a problem.

That's very much like what I experienced. I've gotten to the point where I
don't have to put my hand on the wheel or the gearshift, but there was a
time when I did...

Anyway, I did try sailing a few times in that condition and found that,
while it's possible, it really slowed me down in doing a lot of things.
My boat is mostly manual operation though, not even a roller furler. I
could do everything I needed to do but some things, like just lifting
the headsail from below out onto the foredeck through a hatch, were a
real problem.

There's no way I can lift over my head with the right arm. I'd have the
same challenges.


I love single handing but decided not to do that until I got better
since I didn't want to get stuck in an emergency situation alone that I
couldn't deal with due to my arm. It would take me at least twice as
long to reef a sail since there's a lot of overhead work involved.
There's just about nothing I can't handle alone when in good shape. It
took about a year for my arm to get back into shape enough that I'd
consider sailing alone again for more than a day sail.

So, what was it that happened, and how was it cured?


So, my advice to you is to get your arm back at least to the point where
you can function before going on an extended cruise. Day to day
activities may be no problem. But you'll want to have use of both arms
when the sh*t hits the fan.

That's our plan. I've been advised that won't be any less than 6 months
from surgery, and may well be longer. I'm not about to get back aboard if
I'm not functional. As much as I like water skiing (the source of the first
injury), I didn't attempt it until I could do a pain-free pull-up, which was
first seen as just being able to hang from my hands. I'll take the same
approach here - if I can't comfortably grind a winch, or put both hands over
my head (separately!!), I'm not splashing the boat...

Thanks for the interest...

L8R

Skip

--

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2

"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a
clear night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize
that you are quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to
you that in the general scheme of things you are merely an
insignificant speck on the surface of the ocean; and are not nearly
so important or as self-sufficient as you thought you were. Which is
an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one that may effect a
permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly appreciated
by your friends." - James S. Pitkin

Skip... Lydia, I'm NC, BTW :-)

Skip! Get yer arm taken care of! *Damn fool old man*

Enjoy the pleasures of being taken care of by your woman for a bit, so
you can return the favor in full force to the woman who will stand
beside.... well, YOU!

Not that I'm suggesting anything:
http://www.uniformsandscrubs.com/Ski...d_Dresses.html

Other than enjoying life.

You were looking to take a break, right? Consider this a break. A
later winter cruise is gonna take a certain amount of body heat, eh?

Shared?

TheNIGHTCRAWLER
(There are only options)

"Skip Gundlach"
skipgundlach.sez.remove.this.and.the.dots.to.mail
wrote:

Hi, Rosalie, and group,

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
.. .
"Skip Gundlach"
skipgundlach.sez.remove.this.and.the.dots.to.mail
wrote:

Life is what happens when you're making other plans...

Most of you know that Lydia and I have bought our boat and expect to get
aboard and cut the cords. Target departure date is November 1, with a
variety of things to happen first, including getting a couple of houses
(emptied and) sold. Progress is happening at an acceptable pace, there,
but
just as Lydia was fixated on getting the boat bought, she's now fixated
on
getting aboard, *NOW!*. I, too, want to get aboard, but deal with
frustration a bit better than she :{))

clip...

My husband fell off/onto a ladder and broke his humerus at the
shoulder joint and his elbow (on the two runs of the ladder). He

OW!!!

drove himself to the hospital (because I was in KY and our son was on
14) and they said he might never have full use of his arm/shoulder or
ever be able to raise his arm above shoulder level again. However -
they took him up to Bethesda (USN ret) and put a cast on it and then
he had about a year of physical therapy and now he has full use of the
shoulder. He's still in touch with his physical therapist (who was a
Navy Corpsman at the time).

Cool. Good to have competent help. I believe I did *not* get that the
first time around - I was part of a public hospital system with mostly

Sounds like it to me too. I won't speak to public hospital systems -
most of my medical care while Bob was in the Navy (20 years) was
through the Navy clinics for which we paid nothing. Some folks did
not believe that this was as good as private care, but I never had any
complaints that I could point to the system about.

charity patients, and wasn't happy at the time with any of the experience.
I believe I had competent care and surgery - but I also believe the followup
should have caught this, and for that, I was very poorly served. In any
event, I've (now) got the best shoulder surgeon available, from all I can
discern, so I'm confident we're giving it our best shot at this time.
Unfortunately, that best shot is only a crapshoot, with a 50-50 likelihood
of success. Fortunately, it can't be made worse...

I think Lydia ought to chill and consider your health first.

Well, the health (with the possible exception of the mental part) will be
well taken care of. However, she's not the least bit interested in (well,
let me rephrase that: adamantly opposed to) any delay whatsoever. And,

Think about whether this is going to be a problem down the road - i.e.
is she going to be wanting you to do things that are unwise (enter a
harbor at night, stay at a place that is unsafe etc)? Are you going
to let her sway your decisions unwisely?

After Bob's heart attack, we went to Chub Cay on Sunday, the first
sail after we got back to the boat. We were planning to leave on
Thursday, but Bob was (as always) getting antsy to leave. This is
what I wrote about that.

At some point on Tuesday, I mentioned to Bob that perhaps we could leave Weds, and this was a great mistake. On Weds morning we were having squalls, so I thought we were safe, but about 9, he decided that the weather had improved and we could go after all. He'd walked out to the point, and seen that it didn't look to bad out there.

So we left about 9:30 am, and motored out of the channel. There was a great deal more wind and waves out in the channel than he saw from the point, but, it wasn't bad because it was an east wind, and we were going west. So we made it onto the banks and to the Northwest Channel shoal very quickly, and then turned north.

Here, we had a horrible sail. Winds 25 knots from the NE which meant we couldn't get in to the Great Harbor Cay Marina because it was directly into the wind, and the wind would blow us back almost faster than we could motor into it. Plus, it was going to take us hours, and hours to get there because we were going so slowly.

We kept going north. At about 4, I talked to Herb the weather guy, and he said basically what were we doing out there? In any case, we could not get to the east, so decided to just to go Lucaya, which was north.

The waves were more than we had experienced before. We actually got water over the lee rail into the aft cabin. Water over the side - rocking and rolling, and - it was dark and you couldn't see the waves coming. Plus it was only about a month since Bob's heart attack. I spent the night lying next to the mast on the cabin sole pretending that I was somewhere else.

But we made such good time, that we got to Lucaya about 3 am. Since we didn't want to enter at night,

and I did agree with Bob that I didn't want to do that.

we went downwind toward Freeport until 4:30 (we could see the lights on shore - Freeport is never dark) and then turned around and came back.

snip
The entrance to Lucaya has a kind of barrel with a bell and a little red light on it to mark the entrance. It is on the charts. Unfortunately, there are also big cruise ship moorings in the area that are NOT on the charts so it makes it hazardous to be in that area after dark.

I had put waypoints into the computer last year and using those, we found the entrance channel about sunrise. The entrance channel consists of two tiny markers with tiny lights, and the channel is not visible until you are right in front of it. The channel has breakwaters extending out from each side, and you don't want to run into them.

We went in as soon as it was light and tied up at the Lucaya Village fuel dock at 6:45, got about 33 gallons of fuel, and then went into a slip here. Bob skinned his knee on the concrete dock, and because of the blood thinners he's taking, I thought he would bleed to death. Blood all over everywhere - pants, sock, shoe etc. Could not keep a bandage on his knee. I finally was reduced to making a large pressure bandage out of paper towels, and strapping it on with silver electrical tape.

The topping lift frayed and one end got stuck in the windmill, but the windmill wasn't running, and it came right out. Everything on deck was soaked with salt water.

The CQR anchor came adrift and made a scar bouncing on the trailboards in the waves. Bob said he saw it reflected in the running light on the bow, but he wasn't going out on the deck to find out what it was. Then when it got light, we could see.

Everything loose in the cabin came adrift, including a speaker which was held in by velcro. But it was all easily taken care of.

Bob washed the boat, and did several loads of laundry (to wash the salt water our of the aft cabin rugs), and then I made him take a nap. Even though he had no sleep the previous night, he was surprised that he slept.

When we were taking the water taxi over to Port Lucaya to eat at a restaurant in the marketplace he said he was tired. He was suprised about that too. So we had dinner at the Fat Man's Nephew, and took the water taxi back to the boat where we both went right to sleep.

I insisted that we stay here a day to rest. Bob filled the water tanks, and we got the jitney bus in to the Winn-Dixie on Seahorse Rd (or anyway the one not all the way in Freeport). I also did the internet stuff in Port Lucaya and the internet cafe. I didn't think we would leave before Sunday or Monday. But Bob had other ideas and we left for
West End on Saturday.

I consider it is my 'job' to be the spoiler (so to speak) to make sure
that we don't get into situations like that. But in this case, I
allowed him to persuade me when I should have insisted that we stay.

aside from my ability to do, physically, more to get us out of town, now,
waiting will only make things later. We'll not be able to go on our
preferred schedule, as rehab won't be to the point where I could leave any
sooner than January or so, at best, if we go on the current schedule
(surgery 15Jun), as it is. So, I guess I'll just have to bite the bullet
and hire the help rather than do it myself. One way or the other, whenever
we are able, however, we'll get aboard. It will just have to be later and
more expensive (but then, what, in boating, isn't??).


grandma Rosalie

On Thu, 27 May 2004 17:01:08 -0400, Skip Gundlach
skipgundlach.sez.remove.this.and.the.dots.to.mail wrote:

snip
After
all, there are those who make a lifetime out of the Bahamas, so who are
we
to say that we wouldn't have plenty to see for several months?


It would be a shame not to take the time to enjoy the Bahamas, you could
then hole up in Luperon for hurricane season.
Personaly, I prefer to cruise the Bahamas in the summer months.
Russ

"Skip Gundlach" skipgundlach.sez.remove.this.and.the.dots.to.mail wrote in message ...
Hi, Glenn and thanks for the thought - BTW, you owe me a mail or two or I
have the wrong addy for you again...

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:16ntc.16570$Sx2.7061@okepread01...
Sorry to hear that! Looks like you might be in the market for a power
winch. :-) Actually November through June might be a better choice for
working your way down. More fronts to ride down to PR and better winds
once you get there. Also more places are open in the season.


Actually, that's exactly when we intended to go. But if I have surgery now,
I'll not be in condition to get back on board before January or so, due to
the time in rehab (at least, based on last time - I'm still waiting to hear
from the ortho about how long to expect), and maybe later. That makes the
working our way down just that much shorter. The reason we found it
important to leave ASAP the hurricane season was over is that we don't
expect to be north of STT any time again (at least in the boat) and so
wanted to have a long opportunity to explore those northern islands. After
all, there are those who make a lifetime out of the Bahamas, so who are we
to say that we wouldn't have plenty to see for several months?

So, if I have a later surgery (current schedule is June 15th), it would
allow a longer rehab and also more time to get our act together about
getting houses dealt with, for a November 05 departure. As it is, we may be
delayed, unless we just "throw them away" by cutting the prices to fire sale
level (thus killing our cruising kitty - a catch 22), so perhaps it wouldn't
matter, anyway, to have a later surgery. However, Lydia's just beside
herself wanting to get aboard, so we've not yet made that decision.

My preference is to wait until, say, September, and get a good long rehab
before making the boat as perfect as we can, and heading out November 05.
That would also get us past the requirement to come back from wherever we
were to see her son graduate in December :{))

I recently broke my elbow in multiple places, along with assted other
injuries, in a fall. My physiotherapist says to forget about even
paddling a kayak for months and not to go to sea on my annual work
cruise to the Antarctic. You go to sea with a bad shoulder, half
healed, and cop a heavy roll at the wrong moment, it's not going to be
pretty. How are you going to hang onto anything? I know that I can't,
right now.

Get well, then go. Otherwise the first might be the last when it all
gets ugly & painful instead of enjoyable. Even crew won't help if the
weather gets bad and you need the strength of a bad hand.

Peter Wiley

Howdy, Y'all,

Well, it was a very productive weekend in making way for our ability to
leave (all the other stuff which has to be done including the surgery), more
of which anon in other posts...

"Russ Barron" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 27 May 2004 17:01:08 -0400, Skip Gundlach
skipgundlach.sez.remove.this.and.the.dots.to.mail wrote:

snip
After
all, there are those who make a lifetime out of the Bahamas, so who are
we
to say that we wouldn't have plenty to see for several months?


It would be a shame not to take the time to enjoy the Bahamas, you could
then hole up in Luperon for hurricane season.
Personaly, I prefer to cruise the Bahamas in the summer months.
Russ

We're exploring all the options, and have no concrete idea of when we'll
actually get to leave. Lydia's a bit concerned about the potential
departure of a year later than planned, as she presumes she won't be working
at that point (earlier) and we'll not be able to afford the extra time.

Of course, we can't say when it will actually be that we shove off, or
whether, in fact, she can work as long as she cares to (which actually
expired some time ago, as she wants to go much more than she wants to pile
up boat bux) so that remains to be seen. *My* target is to be out of the
Caribbean during hurricane season, whether by touring the east coast, or
having left to the south, or perhaps some other modus, should we leave any
time later than November of a given year. Our insurance, when we get the
bluewater version (currently protected against falling over in the yard, or
coastal cruising, at a greatly reduced rate from what we'll have to pay
whoever Al Golden comes up with at the time), won't pay if we're victim to a
named storm in the inappropriate latitudes, so I'm loathe to be there :{))

That said, aside from the lack of crowds, what is it which makes you prefer
the summer in the Bahamas?

L8R

Skip and Lydia

--

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2

"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a
clear night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize
that you are quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to
you that in the general scheme of things you are merely an
insignificant speck on the surface of the ocean; and are not nearly
so important or as self-sufficient as you thought you were. Which is
an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one that may effect a
permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly appreciated
by your friends." - James S. Pitkin