Rhys,
Have you come up with a model/plan for your LED lighting? There was a guy
some time ago (in this newsgroup) who had used 12vdc LED trailer lighting (I
believe from JC Whitney) in his boat. It gave an amber glow and was mounted
under the decks on either side of the cabin. Looked good. That msg string
included some very high tech-high price options.
I might get string of those LEDs and experiment....
"rhys" wrote in message
...
On 27 May 2004 07:54:14 -0700, (Michael
Sutton) wrote:


do they use 110v 12 gauge solid core "romex" like they do
for home installations for do they acutally use stranded wire
in conduit? I just can't see all the boat manufactureres going
to this expense.

Well, perhaps my experience will be instructive.

I have a 1973 racer cruiser made by Ontario Yachts, a reputable firm
known for solid boats (Ontario 28, 32, Niagara 35, etc.)

The electric wires in the boat are original except where I've changed
them. I intend to change all of them eventually, as I intend to
relocate the batteries, charger, etc. under a settee next to the mast
for better weight distribution.

The panel is little metal toggle switch with glass fuse holders with a
common positive side. Most of the DC power lines are very narrow, 20
or 22 gauge, to a terminal block in the head and aft and forward to
running lights. I replaced all mast wires with 12 gauge to spreader
lights, steaming and deck lights and 14 gauge to trilight and anchor
light. All DC wiring is tinned and stranded.

Wow, what a difference. Wait until I upgrade the cabin wiring and
replace the panel. The only exception to this is perhaps I will leave
the cabin lights with the old wiring, which is not in bad condition,
if I switch from 12 VDC auto light bulbs to LEDs...the LEDs draw so
little it is hardly worth the effort of drawing the cables through
cabinetry, etc.

I also replaced the stern light wire with 16 gauge to the panel.
Again, a gratifying jump in brightness.

All new hard-wired devices, like gas/propane alarm and solenoid, depth
sounder, etc. get 14 or 16 gauge Ancor wire to the panel depending on
draw. As I have a stock 35 amp alternator on my Atomic 4, I try to
avoid heavy draws where possible.

On the AC side, yes, there is obviously 10 gauge exterior Romex-type
wire going from the hook-up to a small 30 amp fuse box which uses the
"shotgun cartridge" style of brass-ended fuses. They haven't blown in
the five years I've owned the boat. The two pairs of AC outlets on the
boat are properly grounded, but the Romex is beginning to get
tired-looking. When I get a new panel next year I will replace it with
10 gauge marine wire because I want proper AC circuit breakers, a
hard-wired charger, a small inverter, full isolation and two extra
paired outlets, one in the V-berth so I can run power tools in the
anchor locker, and one in the nav station for a PC as we are getting
wireless networking at the YC and I like to download weather maps
before I cruise.

My other suggestion, depending on the length of your boat, is to
install a second AC hook-up. Mine is in the cockpit and the 50 foot
cord must cross about 31 feet of deck, 5 feet of Zodiac, 6 feet of
dock finger and 4 feet of rise to get to the plug. Far better, I
think, would be to have a second plug at the bow
end...somewhere...allowing a shorter cord to be used and giving one
the opinion of docking in other slips stern in or bow in without
hauling too much or too little shore power cord. Less stuff on deck
that way as well.

Hope this helps. I am learning as well and quite enjoying myself. I
won't miss those little glass fuses, I can tell you.

R.

"Ytter" wrote in message
...
I've heard different opinions what kind of wire is better for wiring
boats.Could you give me some of your expertise?

The proper wire to use is stranded.

As others have said, the reason for this is that it is better for dealing
with vibration.

Another reason that YOU should use the proper wire is that it could become
very important if you ever plan on selling this boat. If a prospective
buyer has a survey done and the surveyor finds (and he should) that the boat
has been rewired with solid wire you may be looking at a rather expensive
job to restore the boat to a proper wiring configuration.

Rod McInnis

"Michael Sutton" wrote in message
om...


When boat manufacturers install 110v wiring in a boat at
the factory for the "house" 110v circuits (like lights, plugs,
A/C, tv, etc..) what do they use?



Stranded wire.

Note that the electrical outlets are different than the typical household
outlets as a result. An outlet that is designed for solid wire won't work
for stranded.

Rod

On Thursday 27 May 2004 3:18 pm in rec.boats.cruising L. M. Rappaport wrote:

I'll agree with everyone else - tinned, stranded wire is the best
wire to use. In addition, if the boat is fiberglass, you should use
"wire loom" for conductors which can rub against the hull or any other
unfinished fiberglass surface. The reason is that unfinished
fiberglass is quite abrasive. You can buy wire loom at auto parts
stores - it's like a flexible plastic pipe slit up the side. It
provides a smooth interior which will not abrade the insulation.

I prefer to use spirothene because it makes for a tighter bundle and
it is easier to drop out individual wires along the way. Another much
neater method is to lace the loom with waxed twine. This looks really
neat and takes up a lot less space than wireloom or spirothene, but
needs separate protection where rubbing is likely.

Another very important point is that shrinktube should always be used
to protect the transition between the wire and a lug or terminal. This
is a weak point where any vibration or movement will naturally be
concentrated.

--
My real address is crn (at) netunix (dot) com
WARNING all messages containing attachments or html will be silently
deleted. Send only plain text.

Rod McInnis wrote:

Stranded wire.

Note that the electrical outlets are different than the typical
household outlets as a result. An outlet that is designed for solid
wire won't work for stranded.

They are exactly the same. You just don't use the push in connector.
Use the screw terminals with crimp on ring terminals.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

I usually solder connector on my boat and have never found this to fail.
I've never see this done but the manufacturers so there must be some
negative reason but I've not found it.

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
...
Ytter,
As a rule you should use FINE tin plated stranded wire. It should be
sheathed with either fiberglass or metal braiding. It can be ordered from
an
industrial wire supply house. It cost more than other type wire, but the
overall cost difference at the job level is minimal. Just as importantly,
you should consider the mode of most common failure of wiring. That is
corrosion at the wire terminal interface. To avoid the moisture migration
cause, you should use crimp terminals without insulation and a crimping
tool
that provides enough pressure that the terminal to wire connection
actually
welds. Then shrink tubing is applied and after the terminal is installed
the
entire connection should be painted with a rubber compound. This also can
be
ordered from the industrial supplier or directly from OMC.
Steve

"Ytter" wrote in message
...
I've heard different opinions what kind of wire is better for wiring
boats.Could you give me some of your expertise?
Thank You,
Ytter

QLW wrote:
I usually solder connector on my boat and have never found this to fail.
I've never see this done but the manufacturers so there must be some
negative reason but I've not found it.

Cost of assembly. It gets the boat out of the door, and it works long
enough to last until the end of the warranty.

--
the most committed always win

rhys wrote:

On 27 May 2004 07:54:14 -0700, (Michael
Sutton) wrote:


do they use 110v 12 gauge solid core "romex" like they do
for home installations for do they acutally use stranded wire
in conduit? I just can't see all the boat manufactureres going
to this expense.


Well, perhaps my experience will be instructive.


The panel is little metal toggle switch with glass fuse holders with a
common positive side. Most of the DC power lines are very narrow, 20
or 22 gauge, to a terminal block in the head and aft and forward to
running lights. I replaced all mast wires with 12 gauge to spreader
lights, steaming and deck lights and 14 gauge to trilight and anchor
light. All DC wiring is tinned and stranded.

Wow, what a difference. Wait until I upgrade the cabin wiring and
replace the panel. The only exception to this is perhaps I will leave
the cabin lights with the old wiring, which is not in bad condition,
if I switch from 12 VDC auto light bulbs to LEDs...the LEDs draw so
little it is hardly worth the effort of drawing the cables through
cabinetry, etc.

I also replaced the stern light wire with 16 gauge to the panel.
Again, a gratifying jump in brightness.

This has more to do with proper wire sizing than new wire or stranded wire.



--
the most committed always win

dazed and confuzed wrote:


Cost of assembly. It gets the boat out of the door, and it works long
enough to last until the end of the warranty.


I agree. The crimp is for a solid mechanical connection. The solder
gives a good electrical connection and resists corrosion.

Tom
of the Swee****er Sea

"Glenn Ashmore" writes:

They are exactly the same. You just don't use the push in connector.
Use the screw terminals with crimp on ring terminals.

There are at least 4 grades of duplex receptacles.

1) The "strip and stuff" residential designed for solid wire.

You strip the wire then stuff it in the hole on the back of the receptacle.

Strictly a low cost residential device.

2) Light Commercial grade designed for either solid or stranded wire, a side
wired device.

3) "Spec Grade", heavy duty industrial, designed for either solid or
stranded wire. Can be back or side wired.

4) "Hospital Grade", same as spec grade except with better performance
characteristics for the most difficult of all receptacle applications, the
hospital.

Hospital grade devices have a green dot on the face.

None of these devices are designed to require terminals, but if used in a
side wired application, the terminal certainly should NOT be soldered to the
wire.

HTH


--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
Visit: http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for Pictures