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Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
Hello again; women haters, know it alls, never owned but
full of advice, and then there are the nuts/bolts/screws.. all loose.. And of course,, The Hubbard ... question; how many Hubbards are there? This is your assignment :: You have been given a Sabre 28. Model year 1976.. The boat is in ok shape... Hull sound, deck sound .. basic equipment .. You have xxxx to spend.. think?? at least $15,000 .. What equipment will you replace, add, get, .. etc ?? My list so far :: and remember, this comes from a Barnes and Noble book .. Replace the standing and running rigging .. add two self tailing winches .. upgrade the anchor and anchor equipment .. sails .. furling for jib.. [ maybe, the book says the furling systems don't work the sail very well and a second smaller jib will sail the boat better ] What stuff would you EXPERTS get .. The windvane steerer? Or electric stuff ? what about engine upgrades ?/ batteries? solar/wind power ? |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
My advice is to spend just half of your budget on the initial purchase
although that's based on the market when I bought my boat in 2005. With things as depressed as they are now, the numbers may have changed. Still, you might find it useful to see what I went through with a boat of the same purchase price you mention that had a good survey and has turned out to be a great, solid, boat. http://home.roadrunner.com/~rlma/BoatIndex.htm -- Roger Long |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
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Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
"Janet O'Leary" wrote in message ... Hello again; women haters, know it alls, never owned but full of advice, and then there are the nuts/bolts/screws.. all loose.. And of course,, The Hubbard ... question; how many Hubbards are there? This is your assignment :: You have been given a Sabre 28. Model year 1976.. The boat is in ok shape... Hull sound, deck sound .. basic equipment .. You have xxxx to spend.. think?? at least $15,000 .. What equipment will you replace, add, get, .. etc ?? My list so far :: and remember, this comes from a Barnes and Noble book .. Replace the standing and running rigging .. add two self tailing winches .. upgrade the anchor and anchor equipment .. sails .. furling for jib.. [ maybe, the book says the furling systems don't work the sail very well and a second smaller jib will sail the boat better ] What stuff would you EXPERTS get .. The windvane steerer? Or electric stuff ? what about engine upgrades ?/ batteries? solar/wind power ? Ha! Liked the start of your post! Pretty accurate. From what I understand the hypothetical situation to be is "Sailor-person" has a 1973 28' Sabre AND 15 "boat bucks"? What I think "Sailor-person" should do is, through talking to some decent middle of the road type (meaning somewhere between the crested blazer wearing jerks and the bar clinging drunks) sailors, is find a reputable surveyor and spend about 1/2 a boat buck for a solid evaluation of that vessel and it's systems. Once the ""Sailor-person" has the list of good and bad things, that person should evalute the list and prioritize things to fix and budget the repairs. The surveyor will probably help with a quick eval of the worst or unsafe items needing immediate attention. Could be I would vote for changing the rigging because mine needs new rigging and not worrying about the engine because my engine has no problems. Having never seen the boat and knowing nothing about it, my input on what to fix/replace first is worth just what it would cost. Nada. I would not blow my boat budget on recommendations from the books author (there are a lot of furling system owners out there that would argue his opinion) nor opinions of "screw loose, women hating Hubbards" on an NG. |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
"Janet O'Leary" wrote in message ... This is your assignment :: You have been given a Sabre 28. Model year 1976.. The boat is in ok shape... Hull sound, deck sound .. basic equipment .. You have xxxx to spend.. think?? at least $15,000 .. What equipment will you replace, add, get, .. etc ?? My list so far :: and remember, this comes from a Barnes and Noble book .. Replace the standing and running rigging .. add two self tailing winches .. upgrade the anchor and anchor equipment .. sails .. furling for jib.. [ maybe, the book says the furling systems don't work the sail very well and a second smaller jib will sail the boat better ] What stuff would you EXPERTS get .. The windvane steerer? Or electric stuff ? what about engine upgrades ?/ batteries? solar/wind power ? The first thing to do is to find out from previous owners what has already been done to the boat and what sort of usage it has had. If you are being 'given' the boat you are lucky and cannot expect to say 'Accepted subject to survey' so you will need to check things out yourself. If you are buying then get the owner to give you a trial sail and check out as much as possible before you decide to have her surveyed. A survey, despite what some people say, is money well spent but do not waste money on an engine or electrical survey as you can check those yourself to see if major work is needed.. I trust my own judgement on a boat and when I bought my first yacht I did not have a survey. Had a trial sail and we went to a nice anchorage and the previous owner said he was going ashore for an hour or so and left me free to do what I liked aboard the boat to check her out. Not everyone would do that however. My present boat I bought in USA without seeing her until she arrived here so needed a survey, many pictures, and the answers to some specific questions I asked the surveyor. Got a fine boat, loaded with all sorts of gear and am most satisfied. .. Since you are a beginner, (I think, or you would not be asking us those questions) you should not be replacing stuff on your boat willy-nilly at an early stage. The standing rigging, for example, is probably 1x19 SS wire. Check it out, every inch of it to see if there is any sign of broken wires or rust, especially where it goes into the fittings. If it seems Ok then, as a beginner, you are highly unlikely to overstress it in your early days of sailing the boat so leave it alone for now. Check the tensioning screws and throw out any that are rusted, bent, or have doubtful looking threads. Make sure they have locking nuts or otherwise are wired up so thay cannot unscrew. Running rigging may be wire or rope or both. Check it over carefully and if it looks Ok, especially where there may be a rope/wire splice, then use it until it shows signs of not being Ok. If you are in USA then check the anchor out very carefully. Many yachtsmen in USA never seem to anchor and have poor gear. I threw out the anchor that came with my boat which I imported from USA because it was cut from flimsy plate. If yours is flimsy galvanised plate, or made from aluminium, or is held together with nuts and bolts, then throw it out and get a solid forged one which for your 28' boat needs to be about 25 lbs weight. The rode should be chain or at least have about 12' of chain then nylon rope. The function of the chain is to maintain a near horizontal pull onto the anchor so it needs to be heavy 1/2" at least. Why mess with the sails, assuming they are in fair condition and are those recommended by the builder? Remember this is a series production boat and the recommended sails should be quite suitable. Same comments for the furler. You do not need a smaller jib if you have a decent furler for reasons just mentioned. If you are a beginner and are not going to try to single hand the boat I should get used to sailing it manually before you get any autopilot. Wind vanes have control lines that take up a lot of space in the cockpit and are not so good downwind unless the wind is very strong and they are no use at all in light wind or when motoring. It is mainly the serious offshore people who use these. You need a decent battery but the existing one(s) can easily be tested. As for the engine it should be a diesel inboard and if it starts readily withoud needing Easy Start sprayed into the manifold it is OK for now especially if it has 1500 hours or less on the clock, but make sure the oil in engine and gearbox has been changed at proper intervals and if in doubt change all oils and filters right away. You should not have to spend a great deal if the boat checks out Ok on the above tests. Ideally, though, you should see her out of the water and check the hull for damage, blisters etc. and if in doubt get an expert to give you an opinion. If you cannot see anything wrong then there probably is not anything wrong, but be suspicious of anything that looks as if it has been recently painted over. So that is my 2c worth. But first you must find someone who is going to 'give' you a boat. Good luck! |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
Ah yes, more fun'n games. This is what the internet is for, isn't it?
"Janet O'Leary" wrote This is your assignment :: You have been given a Sabre 28. *Model year 1976.. The boat is in ok shape... Hull sound, deck sound .. basic equipment .. "Basic equipment" like what? Boats are not like cars in having "standard equipmet" packages. If you mean that the boat is more or less as it came from the factory, then it will need a pretty long list of stuff before it's suitable for coastal cruising. You have xxxx to spend.. *think?? * at least $15,000 .. What equipment will you replace, add, get, .. *etc ?? My list so far :: *and remember, this comes from a Barnes and Noble book My first suggestion would be to go to a sailing club or marina and walk the docks, talk to some real sailors. Replace the standing and running rigging .. You could probably spend the whole $15k just on that alone. I'd suggest not replacing the standing rigging unless you have a good reason to, and that's one of the survey items that will come off the top of the purchase price. Running rigging does need periodic replacement, and it's also not a "standard" list either. How you intend to use the boat, and to some extent your own style of sailing, will dictate the best choice of which rigging to replace and what to replace it with. http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...-RightLine.htm Or skip down to Part 4 "The Right Rope for the Job" http://www.setsail.com/_storefiles/72.pdf .....*add two self tailing winches .. upgrade the anchor and anchor equipment .. *sails .. *furling for jib.. [ maybe, the book says the furling systems don't work the sail very well and a second smaller jib will sail the boat better ] Again, that depends. Furling systems work just fine, people sail around the world with them without trouble. OTOH there is certainly a functional range for any given sail & furler. Generally, people who don't like furlers tend to be curmudgeonly types who formed their opinions 30+ years ago and have no experience with modern furlers. The windvane steerer? * Unless you're going on long offshore passages, I would not bother with a windvane. what about engine upgrades ?/ *batteries? *solar/wind power ? Electrical systems are a whole 'nother can o' worms. If you're going to on opinions presented in books, go for a good one. Get Nigel Calder's 'Cruising Handbook' and/or 'Boatowner's Mechanical & Electrical Guide' very thorough references with good explanations. "mmc" wrote: Ha! Liked the start of your post! Pretty accurate. From what I understand the hypothetical situation to be is "Sailor-person" has a 1973 28' Sabre AND 15 "boat bucks"? What I think "Sailor-person" should do is, through talking to some decent middle of the road type (meaning somewhere between the crested blazer wearing jerks and the bar clinging drunks) sailors, is find a reputable surveyor and spend about 1/2 a boat buck for a solid evaluation of that vessel and it's systems. Ah, but this "sailor-person" has (apparently) already rejected that good advice. Once the ""Sailor-person" has the list of good and bad things, that person should evalute the list and prioritize things to fix and budget the repairs. The surveyor will probably help with a quick eval of the worst or unsafe items needing immediate attention. Could be I would vote for changing the rigging because mine needs new rigging and not worrying about the engine because my engine has no problems. Having never seen the boat and knowing nothing about it, my input on what to fix/replace first is worth just what it would cost. Nada. But you might have some good ideas about what to prioritize, in a general way. I would not blow my boat budget on recommendations from the books author (there are a lot of furling system owners out there that would argue his opinion) nor opinions of "screw loose, women hating Hubbards" on an NG. I dunno if Wilbur H really "hates women" as much as he's just unfamiliar with them and intimidated by them (the real thing, I mean). And he's probably annoyed that he can't impersonate them more successfully on the Internet. But hatred doesn't seem like his style. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
Janet O'Leary wrote:
Hello again; women haters, know it alls, never owned but full of advice, and then there are the nuts/bolts/screws.. all loose.. Everything in your post is "it depends". Frex, it's silly to replace perfectly good rigging just because you have the budget. As to the auto steering, vanes only keep your course true relative to the wind and they don't work at all powering. So what are your plans - long distance cruising by sail in the trades? If so, the vane. If not, the auto pilot. Ditto ground tackle. There have been no real improvement in, say, Danforth / CQR (etc) anchors or BBB chain in the past 50 years so why change those items out if they are in good shape? As to solar, that's always a nice thing to have but on a 28 footer, your space may be limited. Bluntly put, take an inventory of the boat - all stuff and then post the condition of each sub system if you wish the group's opinion on the most vital to replace / repair or upgrade. |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
"Janet O'Leary" wrote in message ... Hello again; women haters, know it alls, never owned but full of advice, and then there are the nuts/bolts/screws.. all loose.. And of course,, The Hubbard ... question; how many Hubbards are there? This is your assignment :: You have been given a Sabre 28. Model year 1976.. The boat is in ok shape... Hull sound, deck sound .. basic equipment .. You have xxxx to spend.. think?? at least $15,000 .. What equipment will you replace, add, get, .. etc ?? My list so far :: and remember, this comes from a Barnes and Noble book .. Replace the standing and running rigging .. add two self tailing winches .. upgrade the anchor and anchor equipment .. sails .. furling for jib.. [ maybe, the book says the furling systems don't work the sail very well and a second smaller jib will sail the boat better ] What stuff would you EXPERTS get .. The windvane steerer? Or electric stuff ? what about engine upgrades ?/ batteries? solar/wind power ? Nobody gives Wilbur Hubbard an "assignment." However, if you're smart you'll listen to the best advice you're going to get in this forum. Don't buy anything until you NEED to buy something. Rid yourself of your female shop until you drop mentality. Here's what you need to do. 1) Give the boat a good cleaning inside and out. Inspect everything real good while you clean and polish. 2) Move aboard and attempt to stow all the unnecessary crap that most women feel they can't live without. 3) Put the remaining 90% that won't fit into storage. 4) Stock up on food and make sure your stove has plenty of fuel. 5) Then learn how to sail the boat. 6) Start a list of things that are broken, don't work well enough to suit your needs, are worn to a dangerous or unserviceable point, etc. Buy all the Coast Guard required safety things like life jackets, flares etc. 7) Replace things as needed depending upon how and where you cruise and anchor. 8) If you don't have a nice little rowing dinghy you need to buy one. For you a Walker Bay 8 would probably be just the ticket. Avoid inflatables as they tend to get a flat tire at the worst of times and you can't row the dammed things in anything but a flat calm even when they don't have a flat. 9) Make sure you have no fewer than three serviceable anchors and rodes. Learn how to use them properly. 10) Buy a new GPS if the boat doesn't already have one. Get the kind that displays a chart. In other words don't go out and spend 15 grand just for the sake of spending fifteen grand. Wait until you learn enough to spend it on things you really need. And to discover what you really need you must first use the boats as you intend to use it. Oh, and don't listen to the others who responded. They can't see the forest through the trees. Few, if any, are long term, liveaboard cruisers like me. Wilbur Hubbard |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
"Roger Long" wrote in message ... My advice is to spend just half of your budget on the initial purchase although that's based on the market when I bought my boat in 2005. With things as depressed as they are now, the numbers may have changed. Still, you might find it useful to see what I went through with a boat of the same purchase price you mention that had a good survey and has turned out to be a great, solid, boat. http://home.roadrunner.com/~rlma/BoatIndex.htm -- Roger Long Pay attention, Roger! What don't you understand about, "You have been given a Sabre 28. Model year 1976.." Wilbur Hubbard |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
"mmc" wrote in message g.com... "Janet O'Leary" wrote in message ... Hello again; women haters, know it alls, never owned but full of advice, and then there are the nuts/bolts/screws.. all loose.. And of course,, The Hubbard ... question; how many Hubbards are there? This is your assignment :: You have been given a Sabre 28. Model year 1976.. The boat is in ok shape... Hull sound, deck sound .. basic equipment .. You have xxxx to spend.. think?? at least $15,000 .. What equipment will you replace, add, get, .. etc ?? My list so far :: and remember, this comes from a Barnes and Noble book .. Replace the standing and running rigging .. add two self tailing winches .. upgrade the anchor and anchor equipment .. sails .. furling for jib.. [ maybe, the book says the furling systems don't work the sail very well and a second smaller jib will sail the boat better ] What stuff would you EXPERTS get .. The windvane steerer? Or electric stuff ? what about engine upgrades ?/ batteries? solar/wind power ? Ha! Liked the start of your post! Pretty accurate. From what I understand the hypothetical situation to be is "Sailor-person" has a 1973 28' Sabre AND 15 "boat bucks"? Reading comprehension is not your forté, it would seem: "You have been given a Sabre 28. Model year 1976.." What I think "Sailor-person" should do is, through talking to some decent middle of the road type (meaning somewhere between the crested blazer wearing jerks and the bar clinging drunks) sailors, is find a reputable surveyor and spend about 1/2 a boat buck for a solid evaluation of that vessel and it's systems. My gawd, here we go again with the surveyor crap. Forget about the surveyor. She doesn't need one and she doesn't want one. The boat was given to her. She is asking how to spend 15K on upgrades. Try to keep up. snipped continued obsession with unnecessary surveyor fetish Wilbur Hubbard |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message anews.com... Don't buy anything until you NEED to buy something. Rid yourself of your female shop until you drop mentality. Here's what you need to do. 1) Give the boat a good cleaning inside and out. Inspect everything real good while you clean and polish. 2) Move aboard and attempt to stow all the unnecessary crap that most women feel they can't live without. 3) Put the remaining 90% that won't fit into storage. 4) Stock up on food and make sure your stove has plenty of fuel. 5) Then learn how to sail the boat. 6) Start a list of things that are broken, don't work well enough to suit your needs, are worn to a dangerous or unserviceable point, etc. Buy all the Coast Guard required safety things like life jackets, flares etc. 7) Replace things as needed depending upon how and where you cruise and anchor. 8) If you don't have a nice little rowing dinghy you need to buy one. For you a Walker Bay 8 would probably be just the ticket. Avoid inflatables as they tend to get a flat tire at the worst of times and you can't row the dammed things in anything but a flat calm even when they don't have a flat. 9) Make sure you have no fewer than three serviceable anchors and rodes. Learn how to use them properly. 10) Buy a new GPS if the boat doesn't already have one. Get the kind that displays a chart. In other words don't go out and spend 15 grand just for the sake of spending fifteen grand. Wait until you learn enough to spend it on things you really need. And to discover what you really need you must first use the boats as you intend to use it. Oh, and don't listen to the others who responded. They can't see the forest through the trees. Few, if any, are long term, liveaboard cruisers like me. Wilbur Hubbard I would second most of Wilbur's advice, though you might have trouble fitting a Walker Bay 8 on deck. Towing a dink is okay in protected waters, but for any real passage-making, it should be properly stored on deck, upside down where it can't hold water. You may, or may not, have the available space on that boat where it will both fit and not hinder crew movement. And, of course, I would have to dismiss the advice not to listen to advice from other posters. And finally, what Wilbur considers "unnecessary crap that women feel (we) can't do without" is more necessary than he comprehends. We do have to remain women, after all. |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote:
My gawd, here we go again with the surveyor crap. Seems like you have a certain hostility towards people who are paid for their knowledge, and thus might actually have some ;) ... The boat was given to her. Sounds like you're very familiar with the circumstances.... hope you are a bit more careful keeping your socks matching for the next few days while this one plays out.... DSK |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
KLC Lewis wrote:
I would second most of Wilbur's advice, though you might have trouble fitting a Walker Bay 8 on deck. Towing a dink is okay in protected waters, but for any real passage-making, it should be properly stored on deck, upside down where it can't hold water. You may, or may not, have the available space on that boat where it will both fit and not hinder crew movement. And, of course, I would have to dismiss the advice not to listen to advice from other posters. And finally, what Wilbur considers "unnecessary crap that women feel (we) can't do without" is more necessary than he comprehends. We do have to remain women, after all. And bless you for it! |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
Janet:
Hello and congrats on your "new to you" boat. I think the first thing you need to decide, or if you already have, is what do YOU plan to do with the boat? Liveaboard, coastal cruise, sail the oceans, Bahamas or.....?? Almost everything will depend upon your ultimate plans. Fill us in and many of us would be willing to provide knowledgeable advice. Seems as though you've already figured WH out, so no need to go there. |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 13:03:58 GMT, "Janet O'Leary"
wrote: Hello again; women haters, know it alls, never owned but full of advice, and then there are the nuts/bolts/screws.. all loose.. And of course,, The Hubbard ... question; how many Hubbards are there? This is your assignment :: You have been given a Sabre 28. Model year 1976.. The boat is in ok shape... Hull sound, deck sound .. basic equipment .. You have xxxx to spend.. think?? at least $15,000 .. What equipment will you replace, add, get, .. etc ?? My list so far :: and remember, this comes from a Barnes and Noble book .. Replace the standing and running rigging .. add two self tailing winches .. upgrade the anchor and anchor equipment .. sails .. furling for jib.. [ maybe, the book says the furling systems don't work the sail very well and a second smaller jib will sail the boat better ] What stuff would you EXPERTS get .. The windvane steerer? Or electric stuff ? what about engine upgrades ?/ batteries? solar/wind power ? Isn't Barnes and Noble a bookseller? What is the author and title of the book? I wouldn't rush to make changes or upgrade stuff - except for things that are obviously worn out or otherwise unusable. Use the boat for a bit, then you will be in a better position to decide what upgrades will make sense for your use of it. If you put on roller furling, new sails, change the engine, etc, then decide to sell the boat in a year, you'll never get even half your money back. Self-tailing winches are nice, but I sailed (single-handed) for many years without them. As others have said, wind vane steering is of little use in coastal cruising, but if you will be single-handing, an autopilot would be a very good investment. -- Peter Bennett, VE7CEI peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 12:30:48 -0800 (PST), pirate
wrote: Seems as though you've already figured WH out, so no need to go there. I think Janet and WH know each other very, very well. |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
On Nov 29, 5:35 pm, Dave wrote:
On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 13:55:53 -0800, Peter Bennett said: an autopilot would be a very good investment. Or even a very good expense. (Just pointing out peoples' tendency to call things of which they approve "investments" and things they think unnecessary "expenses.") If the standing rigging has never been replaced, REPLACE IT even if it looks OK. I thought mine was ok when it was20 yrs old until someone convinced me to really look at it with a magnifying glass and I was shocked to find ALL the lower fittings had miniscule cracks. Replacement will only cost about $2000, maybe $2500. Running rigging is cheap. If the furling system is still good then keep it, otherwise go with a CDI system because you can install it yourself. Roller furlers really will make you sail more than you otherwise would, I wish I'd got one years before I finally did. Replace the lifelines too Electronic autopilot. Forget all the stupid NMEA BS and interfacing to charts. Get the simplest one with the most force. Why self tailing? I have a 28' and have never really needed it and I sail single handed. Get Lazy Jacks or similar because it will really make life easier and your spouse less crabby when she/he is at the tiller and the sail is dropped. A new high capacity bilge pump. Some good used sails A dinghy (I prefer the non-inflatables but you choose) A new VHF AND a handheld VHF AUTO-inflate lifejackets. EPIRB This should be well under $10,000. I bet the old engine is ok but needs some work. It is probably an old Atomic 4, a great gas engine that will run forever and is very simple. You may need to replace your fuel tank though. Get a CO detector if it is a gas engine. Here is my reasoning on going less expensive. This is an older boat and you seem to want to cruise cheap. This means that you will not want to be spending time in $80/night slips or be paying $400/month for a slip. You need to keep her in a place that is a little less safe but much cheaper, maybe even on anchor in a slough somewhere.for free. If something happens to her, you do not want it to be a financial disaster for you. You want to be able to shrug your shoulders and say "Oh well, it was interesting but wont be a real hardship of a loss". Lots of new SOLAS flares. |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
Richard wrote:
KLC Lewis wrote: I would second most of Wilbur's advice, though you might have trouble fitting a Walker Bay 8 on deck. Towing a dink is okay in protected waters, but for any real passage-making, it should be properly stored on deck, upside down where it can't hold water. You may, or may not, have the available space on that boat where it will both fit and not hinder crew movement. And, of course, I would have to dismiss the advice not to listen to advice from other posters. And finally, what Wilbur considers "unnecessary crap that women feel (we) can't do without" is more necessary than he comprehends. We do have to remain women, after all. And bless you for it! Over the last three seasons, I've been towing a dinghy in everything from a flat calm to a force eight all over the English Channel and the southern North Sea. On our 26' mid 60's yacht, there is nowhere to stow even a tiny hard tender on deck so its tow, deflate and pack or do without. Towing a hard tender is problematic as if it flips, you will almost certainly have to cut it adrift (if the bow didn't pull off the moment it swamped) Also you cannot bring it alongside to bail it in rough water. We tow a 10' hard bottommed Avon inflatable. I have a 100' floating towline, (I usually use 5' to 15' but in bad weather off the wind you have to give it a lot of slack or you'll get the tender on top of you in the cockpit) with a drogue just in front of the tender that fills if the tender is overtaking us, and a three part bridle with a swivel to attach the tow line to which keeps the tender more or less streight under tow and prevents tangles. There is minimum gear in the tender and what there is is strapped in place. Ive had to get into the tender underway to bail it two or three times and had to hove to once to recover it when it flipped. Any of those occasions would have probably been the loss of a hard tender. I fully expect to loose this tender sooner or later. For an inflatable it rows quite well. You wouldn't do so for sport, but a mile or so to get to the pub and back is no problem as it has good quality two part oars and decent rowlocks unlike most inflatables. If I was off on a passage of over 24 hours I would consider stowing it, and if going blue water I'd definately stow it but towing a well chosen dink is a lot less hassle than many people will tell you. |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
"Peter Bennett" wrote
As others have said, wind vane steering is of little use in coastal cruising, but if you will be single-handing, an autopilot would be a very good investment. I use my Cape Horn windvane a great deal in coastal cruising around Maine. I can't recommend it enough even for even near shore use. I have a small electric autopilot that drives the windvane linkage when under power. -- Roger Long |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
On Nov 29, 5:03*am, "Janet O'Leary"
wrote: Hello again; * women haters, know it alls, never owned but full of advice, and then there are the nuts/bolts/screws.. all loose.. And of course,, The Hubbard ... *question; *how many Hubbards are there? This is your assignment :: You have been given a Sabre 28. *Model year 1976.. The boat is in ok shape... Hull sound, deck sound .. basic equipment .. You have xxxx to spend.. *think?? * at least $15,000 .. What equipment will you replace, add, get, .. *etc ?? My list so far :: *and remember, this comes from a Barnes and Noble book .. Replace the standing and running rigging .. *add two self tailing winches .. upgrade the anchor and anchor equipment .. *sails .. *furling for jib.. [ maybe, the book says the furling systems don't work the sail very well and a second smaller jib will sail the boat better ] What stuff would you EXPERTS get .. The windvane steerer? * Or electric stuff ? what about engine upgrades ?/ *batteries? *solar/wind power ? not a drip with out the pressure! I would look to the basics, hull, running gear, standing rigging and sails, etc. dont buy it if you dont need it and dont spend on the shiny garbage. personally i would find an OLD fishermen and have them look over the boat and gear take them out a time or two. they may not be able to sail it but i'll bet that they will have some recommendations on how the boat runs and what stuff needs fixing. i would also look for morages around the fishing fleets. its not going to have the ammenities that the white boat docks have but its going to be less costly. look at and ask how the working sailors fix stuff its not gonna be like the white boats but it will work and it will for the most part last. ask around the fishing docks for who the working sailors call when the engine or electronics fail this guy will most likly be some old codger that will talk your ears off but he will know his biz. use your head if it looks to good to be true it likely is, talk to folks, ask questions, watch the old guys and gals, often you can learn more in an afternoon with your mouth shut. than toung wagging will get you in a month. dont think that old sailor slowly splicing a line has not noticed you he has and he slowed down so you could see what he's doing. take the lession home and work on it somewhere along the line that old sailor will see you learned it. Offer to help on the dock, the fastest way to learn is to help someone and when you need help they will show up. compliment a good job when you see it but dont be effusive. a simple nice work or i like the splice, mat, patch, anon will get you alot of info and it makes you a welcome sight. dont flash cash most working sailors dont give a whit if you got money and it will ruin your rep if you try to drown them in money. oh and as to your REP make it good, if you say you will be somplace or help someone, do it come hell or high water most folks at sea will do the same for you as long as they know its worth it. this is my experiance on the west coast several countries and the arctic but all claims are off for the east coast and gulf. |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
Frogwatch wrote:
If the standing rigging has never been replaced, REPLACE IT even if it looks OK. Many older boats have had the rigging replaced and the "new" owner has no way of knowing. Replace it again anyway? Doesn't make sense to me. ... *I thought mine was ok when it was20 yrs old until someone convinced me to really look at it with a magnifying glass and I was shocked to find ALL the lower fittings had miniscule cracks. Bingo, a proper inspection is the key to determine if you need to replace standing rigging. A surveyor will do this, if there's the slightest question a dye test will show the condition of the terminals (most likely weak point). Much cheaper & quicker than "replace it anyway." ..... *Running rigging is cheap. OTOH *good* running rigging is not cheap. For systems that are critical to handling the boat properly, it's worth it. If the furling system is still good then keep it, otherwise go with a CDI system because you can install it yourself. *Roller furlers really will make you sail more than you otherwise would, I wish I'd got one years before I finally did. Yep Replace the lifelines too Now there, I agree. Minor costs & hassle... and BTW lifelines should be replaced with a low-stretch hi-UV-resistant line, not wire. And *definitely* not plastic covered wire. That stuff is dangerous for lifelines, even though it's almost universal on older cruisers & racer- cruisers. Why self tailing? *I have a 28' and have never really needed it and I sail single handed. Yabut self-tailers are worth it too. When you get them, just like roller-furling you'll wish you'd gotten them sooner ;) A new high capacity bilge pump. Good advice there.... doesn't need to be brand-new, but needs to work like new The funny thing is, how much of this good advice from several posters here is actually going to be put any use? I wonder! Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
wrote
BTW lifelines should be replaced with a low-stretch hi-UV-resistant line, not wire. And *definitely* not plastic covered wire. That stuff is dangerous for lifelines, even though it's almost universal on older cruisers & racer- cruisers. Agreed on the plastic coated line but I replaced mine with plain rigging wire and have been very happy with the result. They look great and I've never been aware of any objectionable feel or chafe. The line will need to be replaced more often and chafe may not be as evident. Wire is also stronger and the terminals neater. I did dispense with turnbuckles at the forward ends and use eyes with nylon lashings. These work fine, stay tight all season, and do not chafe the foot of the headsails. -- Roger Long |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
On Nov 30, 12:22 pm, "Roger Long" wrote:
wrote BTW lifelines should be replaced with a low-stretch hi-UV-resistant line, not wire. And *definitely* not plastic covered wire. That stuff is dangerous for lifelines, even though it's almost universal on older cruisers & racer- cruisers. Agreed on the plastic coated line but I replaced mine with plain rigging wire and have been very happy with the result. They look great and I've never been aware of any objectionable feel or chafe. The line will need to be replaced more often and chafe may not be as evident. Wire is also stronger and the terminals neater. I did dispense with turnbuckles at the forward ends and use eyes with nylon lashings. These work fine, stay tight all season, and do not chafe the foot of the headsails. -- Roger Long I also like my new spreader level light that illuminates the foredeck when adjusting the anchor at night. Was money well spent and reasonably cheap. A simple Davis radar reflector that is very cheap (learn how to use it). A good Man overboard system. Some cheap strobes that attach to life jackets |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
On Nov 30, 4:29 pm, Frogwatch wrote:
On Nov 30, 12:22 pm, "Roger Long" wrote: wrote BTW lifelines should be replaced with a low-stretch hi-UV-resistant line, not wire. And *definitely* not plastic covered wire. That stuff is dangerous for lifelines, even though it's almost universal on older cruisers & racer- cruisers. Agreed on the plastic coated line but I replaced mine with plain rigging wire and have been very happy with the result. They look great and I've never been aware of any objectionable feel or chafe. The line will need to be replaced more often and chafe may not be as evident. Wire is also stronger and the terminals neater. I did dispense with turnbuckles at the forward ends and use eyes with nylon lashings. These work fine, stay tight all season, and do not chafe the foot of the headsails. -- Roger Long I also like my new spreader level light that illuminates the foredeck when adjusting the anchor at night. Was money well spent and reasonably cheap. A simple Davis radar reflector that is very cheap (learn how to use it). A good Man overboard system. Some cheap strobes that attach to life jackets Also you may need to replace the compass because the old one is probably unreadable. Also buy an easy to use non-electronic hand bearing compass (less than $30). A Knotstik, which is a device where you drop a drag over the side and it has a calibrated spring so you can measure your speed. With this and your compass, you can do DR navigation with NO electricity at all. In hot weather, ventilation is necessary so get more somehow. Get some good fans. A bimini will save your skin and even a cheap one is worthwhile. Have your old thru-hull fittings checked. A small solar battery charger is worthwhile. |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
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Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
On Nov 30, 5:42 pm, Gogarty wrote:
Congratulations on your gift. It is the gift that will keep on taking. This probably is not very helpful. But your budget of $15,000 will get you nowhere. Get a survey. Ignore Wilbur. If you want to insure the boat you will have to get one anyway. Then resign yourself to the fact that you will have $30,000 in that boat within the year. Heed the voice of experience with a surveyed 1976 Dawson 26. And that was twenty-five years ago. You could read all about it in an article entitled "We'll never fall in love again" in a magazine called "Messing About in Boats," long defunct. $30,000, what nonsense, what are you doing, gold plating everything? If your budget goes over $12,000 you are wasting money on BS. Its a 1976 boat probably worth maybe $10,000 guys, get a realistic grip. |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 16:03:38 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote: $30,000, what nonsense, what are you doing, gold plating everything? If your budget goes over $12,000 you are wasting money on BS. Its a 1976 boat probably worth maybe $10,000 guys, get a realistic grip. Doesn't matter, they are talking about preparing a boat for serious cruising and/or living aboard. The age of the boat and its value are irrelevant to doing the job right. It costs what it costs. Outfitting a boat is never a good financial investment. |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
Wayne.B wrote:
On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 16:03:38 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch wrote: $30,000, what nonsense, what are you doing, gold plating everything? If your budget goes over $12,000 you are wasting money on BS. Its a 1976 boat probably worth maybe $10,000 guys, get a realistic grip. Doesn't matter, they are talking about preparing a boat for serious cruising and/or living aboard. The age of the boat and its value are irrelevant to doing the job right. It costs what it costs. Outfitting a boat is never a good financial investment. There is a world of difference between cruising and living aboard. Live aboard awhile, then if you want to go cruising, outfit the boat accordingly, IE; A circumnavigation has different needs then a coastal hopper. Gordon |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 16:03:38 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch
wrote: On Nov 30, 5:42 pm, Gogarty wrote: Congratulations on your gift. It is the gift that will keep on taking. This probably is not very helpful. But your budget of $15,000 will get you nowhere. Get a survey. Ignore Wilbur. If you want to insure the boat you will have to get one anyway. Then resign yourself to the fact that you will have $30,000 in that boat within the year. Heed the voice of experience with a surveyed 1976 Dawson 26. And that was twenty-five years ago. You could read all about it in an article entitled "We'll never fall in love again" in a magazine called "Messing About in Boats," long defunct. $30,000, what nonsense, what are you doing, gold plating everything? If your budget goes over $12,000 you are wasting money on BS. Its a 1976 boat probably worth maybe $10,000 guys, get a realistic grip. The OP was talking about "upgrading" the engine, which would be 8-14K all by itself. The bottom line is that what you paid for a boat that age doesn't have much effect on what it costs to bring it up to snuff. On a boat in better condition, that costs more to aquire, you will be replacing all the same things within the first few years regardless. People don't usually do a complete refit right before they sell. Usually it's the opposite. They know they will be getting rid of the boat and stop doing even basic maintenance, let alone major replacements - sometimes a few YEARS in advance. |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:43:47 -0500, Wayne.B
wrote: On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 16:03:38 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch wrote: $30,000, what nonsense, what are you doing, gold plating everything? If your budget goes over $12,000 you are wasting money on BS. Its a 1976 boat probably worth maybe $10,000 guys, get a realistic grip. Doesn't matter, they are talking about preparing a boat for serious cruising and/or living aboard. The age of the boat and its value are irrelevant to doing the job right. It costs what it costs. Outfitting a boat is never a good financial investment. Unless you consider your life to be worth something, of course! (yes, Wayne, I know that you meant it wouldn't be a money maker) |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
"Gogarty" wrote in message ... Congratulations on your gift. It is the gift that will keep on taking. This probably is not very helpful. But your budget of $15,000 will get you nowhere. Get a survey. Ignore Wilbur. If you want to insure the boat you will have to get one anyway. Then resign yourself to the fact that you will have $30,000 in that boat within the year. Heed the voice of experience with a surveyed 1976 Dawson 26. And that was twenty-five years ago. You could read all about it in an article entitled "We'll never fall in love again" in a magazine called "Messing About in Boats," long defunct. No, don't get a survey. Ignore bad advice from the likes of Gogarty. You have the boat already. The first thing you should do is sail it. That is the only way you'll be able to find out what things need fixing and what things don't, what things you'd like to upgrade and what things don't need upgrading and suit you just fine the way they are. The likes of Gogarty represent the "tinkerers" whose pleasure in life comes from constantly working on and tinkering with things based upon the theoretical and not the practical. These are the folks you see at a dock or in a vacant lot spending thousands of hours working on a boat that looks real purdy but never has been in the water since they acquired it. Chances are it never will be anything more than a project boat. Real sailors are practical people who have as their first priority sailing and they upgrade and change and repair on the basis of real need and not perceived need. Real sailors only spend their valuable time working on things that NEED to be worked on and they find this out by sailing, not by theorizing or paying for advice from some fool who has never sailed the boat and never will. Surveyors are big piles of steaming dung, IMO. They arrogantly set foot aboard a boat propped up in a yard and they pretend to know how it will sail and what it needs to make it sail better. The only worse idiot is somebody who pays a surveyor good money to theorize about what needs changing. Imagine paying somebody to evaluate your home theater stereo system without ever having turned it on and listened to it? Sail the boat. Learn what needs to be changed. Change it. It's that simple. This doesn't apply to every boat, just small, simple sailboats like your Sabre 28. You can handle it yourself. Save your money and spend it on things that matter. Take responsibility for your own. That is the true nature and calling of any human being. Wilbur Hubbard |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
On Dec 1, 10:01 am, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "Gogarty" wrote in message ... Congratulations on your gift. It is the gift that will keep on taking. This probably is not very helpful. But your budget of $15,000 will get you nowhere. Get a survey. Ignore Wilbur. If you want to insure the boat you will have to get one anyway. Then resign yourself to the fact that you will have $30,000 in that boat within the year. Heed the voice of experience with a surveyed 1976 Dawson 26. And that was twenty-five years ago. You could read all about it in an article entitled "We'll never fall in love again" in a magazine called "Messing About in Boats," long defunct. No, don't get a survey. Ignore bad advice from the likes of Gogarty. You have the boat already. The first thing you should do is sail it. That is the only way you'll be able to find out what things need fixing and what things don't, what things you'd like to upgrade and what things don't need upgrading and suit you just fine the way they are. The likes of Gogarty represent the "tinkerers" whose pleasure in life comes from constantly working on and tinkering with things based upon the theoretical and not the practical. These are the folks you see at a dock or in a vacant lot spending thousands of hours working on a boat that looks real purdy but never has been in the water since they acquired it. Chances are it never will be anything more than a project boat. Real sailors are practical people who have as their first priority sailing and they upgrade and change and repair on the basis of real need and not perceived need. Real sailors only spend their valuable time working on things that NEED to be worked on and they find this out by sailing, not by theorizing or paying for advice from some fool who has never sailed the boat and never will. Surveyors are big piles of steaming dung, IMO. They arrogantly set foot aboard a boat propped up in a yard and they pretend to know how it will sail and what it needs to make it sail better. The only worse idiot is somebody who pays a surveyor good money to theorize about what needs changing. Imagine paying somebody to evaluate your home theater stereo system without ever having turned it on and listened to it? Sail the boat. Learn what needs to be changed. Change it. It's that simple. This doesn't apply to every boat, just small, simple sailboats like your Sabre 28. You can handle it yourself. Save your money and spend it on things that matter. Take responsibility for your own. That is the true nature and calling of any human being. Wilbur Hubbard "Upgrading the engine costs $8-12000", What? I bought a used 13 hp diesel for $2000 and installed it myself for nearly free. I might understand the biZarro cost if the person paid someone else to do all the work but if you are going to cruise you better know how to do t yourself. This person should read what David Pascoe says about gasoline engines on sailboats before changing it out. I agree with him that there is no reason to change out an older working gasoline engine for diesel. |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
wrote in message ... On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 07:09:15 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch wrote: On Dec 1, 10:01 am, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Gogarty" wrote in message ... Congratulations on your gift. It is the gift that will keep on taking. This probably is not very helpful. But your budget of $15,000 will get you nowhere. Get a survey. Ignore Wilbur. If you want to insure the boat you will have to get one anyway. Then resign yourself to the fact that you will have $30,000 in that boat within the year. Heed the voice of experience with a surveyed 1976 Dawson 26. And that was twenty-five years ago. You could read all about it in an article entitled "We'll never fall in love again" in a magazine called "Messing About in Boats," long defunct. No, don't get a survey. Ignore bad advice from the likes of Gogarty. You have the boat already. The first thing you should do is sail it. That is the only way you'll be able to find out what things need fixing and what things don't, what things you'd like to upgrade and what things don't need upgrading and suit you just fine the way they are. The likes of Gogarty represent the "tinkerers" whose pleasure in life comes from constantly working on and tinkering with things based upon the theoretical and not the practical. These are the folks you see at a dock or in a vacant lot spending thousands of hours working on a boat that looks real purdy but never has been in the water since they acquired it. Chances are it never will be anything more than a project boat. Real sailors are practical people who have as their first priority sailing and they upgrade and change and repair on the basis of real need and not perceived need. Real sailors only spend their valuable time working on things that NEED to be worked on and they find this out by sailing, not by theorizing or paying for advice from some fool who has never sailed the boat and never will. Surveyors are big piles of steaming dung, IMO. They arrogantly set foot aboard a boat propped up in a yard and they pretend to know how it will sail and what it needs to make it sail better. The only worse idiot is somebody who pays a surveyor good money to theorize about what needs changing. Imagine paying somebody to evaluate your home theater stereo system without ever having turned it on and listened to it? Sail the boat. Learn what needs to be changed. Change it. It's that simple. This doesn't apply to every boat, just small, simple sailboats like your Sabre 28. You can handle it yourself. Save your money and spend it on things that matter. Take responsibility for your own. That is the true nature and calling of any human being. Wilbur Hubbard "Upgrading the engine costs $8-12000", What? I bought a used 13 hp diesel for $2000 and installed it myself for nearly free. I might understand the biZarro cost if the person paid someone else to do all the work but if you are going to cruise you better know how to do t yourself. This person should read what David Pascoe says about gasoline engines on sailboats before changing it out. I agree with him that there is no reason to change out an older working gasoline engine for diesel. Dumping an old clapped out $2000 engine in a boat is not an UPGRADE, it's a make-do. Go price a new Beta (marinized kubota) or other decent engine that size. Add up all the parts and pieces needed to install it yourself, and get back to us. Pascoe is about as much a reliable authority as Neal. An old, 28-foot sailboat doesn't need an expensive, new diesel. The key word is "sailboat." Only an idiot spends 10 grand putting a new diesel in a boat that's worth less than half that. Either repair the old one or replace it with a small outboard on the transom. Wilbur Hubbard |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message anews.com... "Gogarty" wrote in message ... Congratulations on your gift. It is the gift that will keep on taking. This probably is not very helpful. But your budget of $15,000 will get you nowhere. Get a survey. Ignore Wilbur. If you want to insure the boat you will have to get one anyway. Then resign yourself to the fact that you will have $30,000 in that boat within the year. Heed the voice of experience with a surveyed 1976 Dawson 26. And that was twenty-five years ago. You could read all about it in an article entitled "We'll never fall in love again" in a magazine called "Messing About in Boats," long defunct. No, don't get a survey. Ignore bad advice from the likes of Gogarty. You have the boat already. The first thing you should do is sail it. That is the only way you'll be able to find out what things need fixing and what things don't, what things you'd like to upgrade and what things don't need upgrading and suit you just fine the way they are. The likes of Gogarty represent the "tinkerers" whose pleasure in life comes from constantly working on and tinkering with things based upon the theoretical and not the practical. These are the folks you see at a dock or in a vacant lot spending thousands of hours working on a boat that looks real purdy but never has been in the water since they acquired it. Chances are it never will be anything more than a project boat. Real sailors are practical people who have as their first priority sailing and they upgrade and change and repair on the basis of real need and not perceived need. Real sailors only spend their valuable time working on things that NEED to be worked on and they find this out by sailing, not by theorizing or paying for advice from some fool who has never sailed the boat and never will. Surveyors are big piles of steaming dung, IMO. They arrogantly set foot aboard a boat propped up in a yard and they pretend to know how it will sail and what it needs to make it sail better. The only worse idiot is somebody who pays a surveyor good money to theorize about what needs changing. Imagine paying somebody to evaluate your home theater stereo system without ever having turned it on and listened to it? Sail the boat. Learn what needs to be changed. Change it. It's that simple. This doesn't apply to every boat, just small, simple sailboats like your Sabre 28. You can handle it yourself. Save your money and spend it on things that matter. Take responsibility for your own. That is the true nature and calling of any human being. Wilbur Hubbard A sensible approach. Can't nobody argue with that. Well said, Mr Hubbard. ++ Shad O'Shay ++ |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 10:46:36 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: replace it with a small outboard on the transom. Ahh yes, the "master mariner" off shore solution [not]. |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message anews.com... Installing a refrigerator was very low on my list of things to do. I only did so after I had gotten all the important, more necessary things attended to. After about ten years of ownership that is. The frivolous, luxury items like a fridge should always come last. Never before necessary sailing systems are in top-notch condition. It's all about priorities. Cold beer is nice but not necessary. Same can be said for hot women. Wilbur Hubbard On a small cruising sailboat, I would agree that refrigeration is a low-priority item. It takes up too much space and requires too much energy for the investment, IMO. On a live-aboard of any size, however, it is pretty high on the priorities list. |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
"KLC Lewis" wrote in message et... "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message anews.com... Installing a refrigerator was very low on my list of things to do. I only did so after I had gotten all the important, more necessary things attended to. After about ten years of ownership that is. The frivolous, luxury items like a fridge should always come last. Never before necessary sailing systems are in top-notch condition. It's all about priorities. Cold beer is nice but not necessary. Same can be said for hot women. Wilbur Hubbard On a small cruising sailboat, I would agree that refrigeration is a low-priority item. It takes up too much space and requires too much energy for the investment, IMO. On a live-aboard of any size, however, it is pretty high on the priorities list. "For the investment." You got that right, Karin. In my case, since I do liveaboard and never in a marina I must also consider the cost of a photovoltaic array large enough to supply the fridge with current. I have two 100 watt panels and a charge controller and the cost of it (about 1,600 bucks) needs to be proportioned to the fridge. Let's say 1000 dollars worth. Add that to the cost of the fridge (1000 bucks) and the installation cost of you have to pay somebody (500 bucks) and don't forget a couple extra batteries at about 200 bucks every four or so years you have a fridge that costs 3,000 bucks or so. You can buy a helluva lot of ice for that but, hey, once you get all the other upgrades taken care of over the years and if you have money on hand you might as well use it to enjoy the finer things in life. Hauling ice becomes a real pain in the ass. Cold beer and wine is so fine. Wilbur Hubbard |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
"Gogarty" wrote in message ... In article s.com, lid says... "KLC Lewis" wrote in message news:1POdndXlRP59vqnUnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@centurytel .net... "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message anews.com... Installing a refrigerator was very low on my list of things to do. I only did so after I had gotten all the important, more necessary things attended to. After about ten years of ownership that is. The frivolous, luxury items like a fridge should always come last. Never before necessary sailing systems are in top-notch condition. It's all about priorities. Cold beer is nice but not necessary. Same can be said for hot women. Wilbur Hubbard On a small cruising sailboat, I would agree that refrigeration is a low-priority item. It takes up too much space and requires too much energy for the investment, IMO. On a live-aboard of any size, however, it is pretty high on the priorities list. "For the investment." You got that right, Karin. In my case, since I do liveaboard and never in a marina I must also consider the cost of a photovoltaic array large enough to supply the fridge with current. I have two 100 watt panels and a charge controller and the cost of it (about 1,600 bucks) needs to be proportioned to the fridge. Let's say 1000 dollars worth. Add that to the cost of the fridge (1000 bucks) and the installation cost of you have to pay somebody (500 bucks) and don't forget a couple extra batteries at about 200 bucks every four or so years you have a fridge that costs 3,000 bucks or so. You can buy a helluva lot of ice for that but, hey, once you get all the other upgrades taken care of over the years and if you have money on hand you might as well use it to enjoy the finer things in life. Hauling ice becomes a real pain in the ass. Cold beer and wine is so fine. Wilbur Hubbard Well, Wilbur, you have just demonstrated how a gift boat can turn into a $30,000 hole in the water. As I said, the gift that keeps on taking. Clearly, spoken from a lubbers viewpoint! Consider this: Since I live aboard and have lived aboard for over 20 years let's look at rent alone. Had I spent 500 bucks a month on rent living ashore over a twenty year period the money spent would be 500 X 12 X 20 or $120 thousand dollars. This is rent alone. It doesn't cover utilities, transport, etc. Buying a house is even more costly especially now when houses have lost from 25 to 50 percent of their previous worth on the market. By virtue of the abovementioned sum, my fine, blue water yacht is a gift that keeps on GIVING. It has enriched me. That's the difference between being a real sailor who lives aboard and a lubber who sails and pretends to be an authority. Now do you get it? Wilbur Hubbard |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
On Dec 1, 3:03*am, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 16:03:38 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch wrote: On Nov 30, 5:42 pm, Gogarty wrote: Congratulations on your gift. It is the gift that will keep on taking. This probably is not very helpful. But your budget of $15,000 will get you nowhere. Get a survey. Ignore Wilbur. If you want to insure the boat you will have to get one anyway. Then resign yourself to the fact that you will have $30,000 in that boat within the year. Heed the voice of experience with a surveyed 1976 Dawson 26. And that was twenty-five years ago. You could read all about it in an article entitled "We'll never fall in love again" in a magazine called "Messing About in Boats," long defunct. $30,000, what nonsense, what are you doing, gold plating everything? If your budget goes over $12,000 you are wasting money on BS. *Its a 1976 boat probably worth maybe $10,000 guys, get a realistic grip. The OP was talking about "upgrading" the engine, which would be 8-14K all by itself. The bottom line is that what you paid for a boat that age doesn't have much effect on what it costs to bring it up to snuff. On a boat in better condition, that costs more to aquire, you will be replacing all the same things within the first few years regardless. People don't usually do a complete refit right before they sell. Usually it's the opposite. They know they will be getting rid of the boat and stop doing even basic maintenance, let alone major replacements - sometimes a few YEARS in advance.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - IIRC if you has a gas inboard you get to pay high insurance as well, dont know about an outboard. better to min your long term bills. |
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