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Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
"Gogarty" wrote in message ... Congratulations on your gift. It is the gift that will keep on taking. This probably is not very helpful. But your budget of $15,000 will get you nowhere. Get a survey. Ignore Wilbur. If you want to insure the boat you will have to get one anyway. Then resign yourself to the fact that you will have $30,000 in that boat within the year. Heed the voice of experience with a surveyed 1976 Dawson 26. And that was twenty-five years ago. You could read all about it in an article entitled "We'll never fall in love again" in a magazine called "Messing About in Boats," long defunct. No, don't get a survey. Ignore bad advice from the likes of Gogarty. You have the boat already. The first thing you should do is sail it. That is the only way you'll be able to find out what things need fixing and what things don't, what things you'd like to upgrade and what things don't need upgrading and suit you just fine the way they are. The likes of Gogarty represent the "tinkerers" whose pleasure in life comes from constantly working on and tinkering with things based upon the theoretical and not the practical. These are the folks you see at a dock or in a vacant lot spending thousands of hours working on a boat that looks real purdy but never has been in the water since they acquired it. Chances are it never will be anything more than a project boat. Real sailors are practical people who have as their first priority sailing and they upgrade and change and repair on the basis of real need and not perceived need. Real sailors only spend their valuable time working on things that NEED to be worked on and they find this out by sailing, not by theorizing or paying for advice from some fool who has never sailed the boat and never will. Surveyors are big piles of steaming dung, IMO. They arrogantly set foot aboard a boat propped up in a yard and they pretend to know how it will sail and what it needs to make it sail better. The only worse idiot is somebody who pays a surveyor good money to theorize about what needs changing. Imagine paying somebody to evaluate your home theater stereo system without ever having turned it on and listened to it? Sail the boat. Learn what needs to be changed. Change it. It's that simple. This doesn't apply to every boat, just small, simple sailboats like your Sabre 28. You can handle it yourself. Save your money and spend it on things that matter. Take responsibility for your own. That is the true nature and calling of any human being. Wilbur Hubbard |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
On Dec 1, 10:01 am, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "Gogarty" wrote in message ... Congratulations on your gift. It is the gift that will keep on taking. This probably is not very helpful. But your budget of $15,000 will get you nowhere. Get a survey. Ignore Wilbur. If you want to insure the boat you will have to get one anyway. Then resign yourself to the fact that you will have $30,000 in that boat within the year. Heed the voice of experience with a surveyed 1976 Dawson 26. And that was twenty-five years ago. You could read all about it in an article entitled "We'll never fall in love again" in a magazine called "Messing About in Boats," long defunct. No, don't get a survey. Ignore bad advice from the likes of Gogarty. You have the boat already. The first thing you should do is sail it. That is the only way you'll be able to find out what things need fixing and what things don't, what things you'd like to upgrade and what things don't need upgrading and suit you just fine the way they are. The likes of Gogarty represent the "tinkerers" whose pleasure in life comes from constantly working on and tinkering with things based upon the theoretical and not the practical. These are the folks you see at a dock or in a vacant lot spending thousands of hours working on a boat that looks real purdy but never has been in the water since they acquired it. Chances are it never will be anything more than a project boat. Real sailors are practical people who have as their first priority sailing and they upgrade and change and repair on the basis of real need and not perceived need. Real sailors only spend their valuable time working on things that NEED to be worked on and they find this out by sailing, not by theorizing or paying for advice from some fool who has never sailed the boat and never will. Surveyors are big piles of steaming dung, IMO. They arrogantly set foot aboard a boat propped up in a yard and they pretend to know how it will sail and what it needs to make it sail better. The only worse idiot is somebody who pays a surveyor good money to theorize about what needs changing. Imagine paying somebody to evaluate your home theater stereo system without ever having turned it on and listened to it? Sail the boat. Learn what needs to be changed. Change it. It's that simple. This doesn't apply to every boat, just small, simple sailboats like your Sabre 28. You can handle it yourself. Save your money and spend it on things that matter. Take responsibility for your own. That is the true nature and calling of any human being. Wilbur Hubbard "Upgrading the engine costs $8-12000", What? I bought a used 13 hp diesel for $2000 and installed it myself for nearly free. I might understand the biZarro cost if the person paid someone else to do all the work but if you are going to cruise you better know how to do t yourself. This person should read what David Pascoe says about gasoline engines on sailboats before changing it out. I agree with him that there is no reason to change out an older working gasoline engine for diesel. |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
wrote in message ... On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 07:09:15 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch wrote: On Dec 1, 10:01 am, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Gogarty" wrote in message ... Congratulations on your gift. It is the gift that will keep on taking. This probably is not very helpful. But your budget of $15,000 will get you nowhere. Get a survey. Ignore Wilbur. If you want to insure the boat you will have to get one anyway. Then resign yourself to the fact that you will have $30,000 in that boat within the year. Heed the voice of experience with a surveyed 1976 Dawson 26. And that was twenty-five years ago. You could read all about it in an article entitled "We'll never fall in love again" in a magazine called "Messing About in Boats," long defunct. No, don't get a survey. Ignore bad advice from the likes of Gogarty. You have the boat already. The first thing you should do is sail it. That is the only way you'll be able to find out what things need fixing and what things don't, what things you'd like to upgrade and what things don't need upgrading and suit you just fine the way they are. The likes of Gogarty represent the "tinkerers" whose pleasure in life comes from constantly working on and tinkering with things based upon the theoretical and not the practical. These are the folks you see at a dock or in a vacant lot spending thousands of hours working on a boat that looks real purdy but never has been in the water since they acquired it. Chances are it never will be anything more than a project boat. Real sailors are practical people who have as their first priority sailing and they upgrade and change and repair on the basis of real need and not perceived need. Real sailors only spend their valuable time working on things that NEED to be worked on and they find this out by sailing, not by theorizing or paying for advice from some fool who has never sailed the boat and never will. Surveyors are big piles of steaming dung, IMO. They arrogantly set foot aboard a boat propped up in a yard and they pretend to know how it will sail and what it needs to make it sail better. The only worse idiot is somebody who pays a surveyor good money to theorize about what needs changing. Imagine paying somebody to evaluate your home theater stereo system without ever having turned it on and listened to it? Sail the boat. Learn what needs to be changed. Change it. It's that simple. This doesn't apply to every boat, just small, simple sailboats like your Sabre 28. You can handle it yourself. Save your money and spend it on things that matter. Take responsibility for your own. That is the true nature and calling of any human being. Wilbur Hubbard "Upgrading the engine costs $8-12000", What? I bought a used 13 hp diesel for $2000 and installed it myself for nearly free. I might understand the biZarro cost if the person paid someone else to do all the work but if you are going to cruise you better know how to do t yourself. This person should read what David Pascoe says about gasoline engines on sailboats before changing it out. I agree with him that there is no reason to change out an older working gasoline engine for diesel. Dumping an old clapped out $2000 engine in a boat is not an UPGRADE, it's a make-do. Go price a new Beta (marinized kubota) or other decent engine that size. Add up all the parts and pieces needed to install it yourself, and get back to us. Pascoe is about as much a reliable authority as Neal. An old, 28-foot sailboat doesn't need an expensive, new diesel. The key word is "sailboat." Only an idiot spends 10 grand putting a new diesel in a boat that's worth less than half that. Either repair the old one or replace it with a small outboard on the transom. Wilbur Hubbard |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message anews.com... "Gogarty" wrote in message ... Congratulations on your gift. It is the gift that will keep on taking. This probably is not very helpful. But your budget of $15,000 will get you nowhere. Get a survey. Ignore Wilbur. If you want to insure the boat you will have to get one anyway. Then resign yourself to the fact that you will have $30,000 in that boat within the year. Heed the voice of experience with a surveyed 1976 Dawson 26. And that was twenty-five years ago. You could read all about it in an article entitled "We'll never fall in love again" in a magazine called "Messing About in Boats," long defunct. No, don't get a survey. Ignore bad advice from the likes of Gogarty. You have the boat already. The first thing you should do is sail it. That is the only way you'll be able to find out what things need fixing and what things don't, what things you'd like to upgrade and what things don't need upgrading and suit you just fine the way they are. The likes of Gogarty represent the "tinkerers" whose pleasure in life comes from constantly working on and tinkering with things based upon the theoretical and not the practical. These are the folks you see at a dock or in a vacant lot spending thousands of hours working on a boat that looks real purdy but never has been in the water since they acquired it. Chances are it never will be anything more than a project boat. Real sailors are practical people who have as their first priority sailing and they upgrade and change and repair on the basis of real need and not perceived need. Real sailors only spend their valuable time working on things that NEED to be worked on and they find this out by sailing, not by theorizing or paying for advice from some fool who has never sailed the boat and never will. Surveyors are big piles of steaming dung, IMO. They arrogantly set foot aboard a boat propped up in a yard and they pretend to know how it will sail and what it needs to make it sail better. The only worse idiot is somebody who pays a surveyor good money to theorize about what needs changing. Imagine paying somebody to evaluate your home theater stereo system without ever having turned it on and listened to it? Sail the boat. Learn what needs to be changed. Change it. It's that simple. This doesn't apply to every boat, just small, simple sailboats like your Sabre 28. You can handle it yourself. Save your money and spend it on things that matter. Take responsibility for your own. That is the true nature and calling of any human being. Wilbur Hubbard A sensible approach. Can't nobody argue with that. Well said, Mr Hubbard. ++ Shad O'Shay ++ |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
On Mon, 1 Dec 2008 10:46:36 -0500, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: replace it with a small outboard on the transom. Ahh yes, the "master mariner" off shore solution [not]. |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message anews.com... Installing a refrigerator was very low on my list of things to do. I only did so after I had gotten all the important, more necessary things attended to. After about ten years of ownership that is. The frivolous, luxury items like a fridge should always come last. Never before necessary sailing systems are in top-notch condition. It's all about priorities. Cold beer is nice but not necessary. Same can be said for hot women. Wilbur Hubbard On a small cruising sailboat, I would agree that refrigeration is a low-priority item. It takes up too much space and requires too much energy for the investment, IMO. On a live-aboard of any size, however, it is pretty high on the priorities list. |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
"KLC Lewis" wrote in message et... "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message anews.com... Installing a refrigerator was very low on my list of things to do. I only did so after I had gotten all the important, more necessary things attended to. After about ten years of ownership that is. The frivolous, luxury items like a fridge should always come last. Never before necessary sailing systems are in top-notch condition. It's all about priorities. Cold beer is nice but not necessary. Same can be said for hot women. Wilbur Hubbard On a small cruising sailboat, I would agree that refrigeration is a low-priority item. It takes up too much space and requires too much energy for the investment, IMO. On a live-aboard of any size, however, it is pretty high on the priorities list. "For the investment." You got that right, Karin. In my case, since I do liveaboard and never in a marina I must also consider the cost of a photovoltaic array large enough to supply the fridge with current. I have two 100 watt panels and a charge controller and the cost of it (about 1,600 bucks) needs to be proportioned to the fridge. Let's say 1000 dollars worth. Add that to the cost of the fridge (1000 bucks) and the installation cost of you have to pay somebody (500 bucks) and don't forget a couple extra batteries at about 200 bucks every four or so years you have a fridge that costs 3,000 bucks or so. You can buy a helluva lot of ice for that but, hey, once you get all the other upgrades taken care of over the years and if you have money on hand you might as well use it to enjoy the finer things in life. Hauling ice becomes a real pain in the ass. Cold beer and wine is so fine. Wilbur Hubbard |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
"Gogarty" wrote in message ... In article s.com, lid says... "KLC Lewis" wrote in message news:1POdndXlRP59vqnUnZ2dnUVZ_jWdnZ2d@centurytel .net... "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message anews.com... Installing a refrigerator was very low on my list of things to do. I only did so after I had gotten all the important, more necessary things attended to. After about ten years of ownership that is. The frivolous, luxury items like a fridge should always come last. Never before necessary sailing systems are in top-notch condition. It's all about priorities. Cold beer is nice but not necessary. Same can be said for hot women. Wilbur Hubbard On a small cruising sailboat, I would agree that refrigeration is a low-priority item. It takes up too much space and requires too much energy for the investment, IMO. On a live-aboard of any size, however, it is pretty high on the priorities list. "For the investment." You got that right, Karin. In my case, since I do liveaboard and never in a marina I must also consider the cost of a photovoltaic array large enough to supply the fridge with current. I have two 100 watt panels and a charge controller and the cost of it (about 1,600 bucks) needs to be proportioned to the fridge. Let's say 1000 dollars worth. Add that to the cost of the fridge (1000 bucks) and the installation cost of you have to pay somebody (500 bucks) and don't forget a couple extra batteries at about 200 bucks every four or so years you have a fridge that costs 3,000 bucks or so. You can buy a helluva lot of ice for that but, hey, once you get all the other upgrades taken care of over the years and if you have money on hand you might as well use it to enjoy the finer things in life. Hauling ice becomes a real pain in the ass. Cold beer and wine is so fine. Wilbur Hubbard Well, Wilbur, you have just demonstrated how a gift boat can turn into a $30,000 hole in the water. As I said, the gift that keeps on taking. Clearly, spoken from a lubbers viewpoint! Consider this: Since I live aboard and have lived aboard for over 20 years let's look at rent alone. Had I spent 500 bucks a month on rent living ashore over a twenty year period the money spent would be 500 X 12 X 20 or $120 thousand dollars. This is rent alone. It doesn't cover utilities, transport, etc. Buying a house is even more costly especially now when houses have lost from 25 to 50 percent of their previous worth on the market. By virtue of the abovementioned sum, my fine, blue water yacht is a gift that keeps on GIVING. It has enriched me. That's the difference between being a real sailor who lives aboard and a lubber who sails and pretends to be an authority. Now do you get it? Wilbur Hubbard |
Replace? Add? Fix? Want? .. the Put On's
On Dec 1, 3:03*am, wrote:
On Sun, 30 Nov 2008 16:03:38 -0800 (PST), Frogwatch wrote: On Nov 30, 5:42 pm, Gogarty wrote: Congratulations on your gift. It is the gift that will keep on taking. This probably is not very helpful. But your budget of $15,000 will get you nowhere. Get a survey. Ignore Wilbur. If you want to insure the boat you will have to get one anyway. Then resign yourself to the fact that you will have $30,000 in that boat within the year. Heed the voice of experience with a surveyed 1976 Dawson 26. And that was twenty-five years ago. You could read all about it in an article entitled "We'll never fall in love again" in a magazine called "Messing About in Boats," long defunct. $30,000, what nonsense, what are you doing, gold plating everything? If your budget goes over $12,000 you are wasting money on BS. *Its a 1976 boat probably worth maybe $10,000 guys, get a realistic grip. The OP was talking about "upgrading" the engine, which would be 8-14K all by itself. The bottom line is that what you paid for a boat that age doesn't have much effect on what it costs to bring it up to snuff. On a boat in better condition, that costs more to aquire, you will be replacing all the same things within the first few years regardless. People don't usually do a complete refit right before they sell. Usually it's the opposite. They know they will be getting rid of the boat and stop doing even basic maintenance, let alone major replacements - sometimes a few YEARS in advance.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - IIRC if you has a gas inboard you get to pay high insurance as well, dont know about an outboard. better to min your long term bills. |
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